Link in the NEW tier list(updated to TL#4)

[KirinBlaze]

I like, and for the most part, agree with your philosophy.

However, dtilt spikebox. :Þ

I still go for it. xD

Also, Jash mentioned to me at GameTable that if Toon Link dash dances as his boomerang reaches it's peak distance, it doesn't come back to him but instead continues on its path. I asked him if Link could do this and he said he didn't know and he'd look into it.

If this works with Link you do know what it'll mean right?

 

[MorpheusVGX]

I suggest you support Balanced Brawl. That's better than waiting for SSB4 ...for now..

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

I still go for it. xD

Also, Jash mentioned to me at GameTable that if Toon Link dash dances as his boomerang reaches it's peak distance, it doesn't come back to him but instead continues on its path. I asked him if Link could do this and he said he didn't know and he'd look into it.

If this works with Link you do know what it'll mean right?

Kirin I love you, no homo.

I'll see if I can do this later... my Wii is totally unhooked from bringing it the the ND State Fair Tourney. 1st place, Link only. I actually didn't screw up under tourney presure for once; should have the matches uploaded soon hopefully. I snuck onto the TO's laptop and saved the Tio results onto his desktop and left a notepad document for him to send them to me. xD If I'm lucky I'll be able to post them.

 

[M4ge]

Jash mentioned to me at GameTable that if Toon Link dash dances as his boomerang reaches it's peak distance, it doesn't come back to him but instead continues on its path.

Did he show you it at least once? I'm pretty sure when we tried it, nothing happened. Not saying Jash is wrong, but I'd like to see video proof first.

 

[Anonano]

This would be a highly interesting AT if it worked, but it sounds like it may only work for TL (from what Mage is saying).

 

[KirinBlaze]

I know the timing is EXTREMELY strict for the TL one so I assume it's the same for Link and for us to have tried it with little practice I wouldn't use our test as a solid one. I'd leave it to someone like Jash who has the timing down for the TL one to try it with Link.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

I know the timing is EXTREMELY strict for the TL one so I assume it's the same for Link and for us to have tried it with little practice I wouldn't use our test as a solid one. I'd leave it to someone like Jash who has the timing down for the TL one to try it with Link.

Agreed. I was attempting to do this earlier in training mode and wasn't able to get it to work with either of the two characters. Hope Jash finds something out.

 

[AsuraPhoenix]

Link needs every tool he has to fight period and even using everything the simple stuff will/can kick his ***. Only safe thing(as far as attacks) i feel link has is zair and both his air kicks other then that you have to be insanely careful, i mean sure links long range game has a lot of potential, but his recovery timing.....slow as molasses? link is my favorite and most experienced char, he is not my best though in turn i cant deny his placement. Since i only play with my friends n brother now i cant get enough of brawl+(really balanced)..........CF <3 lol.

 

[lordvaati]

Behold, the reason why Link is so low...

Why, you may ask? Well, think back to Melee. in it, there was normal Link and Young Link. now, these two were supposed t be polar opposites, just Like for example, Mario and Doc- Doc was stronger and slightly heavier, but Mario had a faster basic attack and better horizontal recovery. same was with Link and Youngie. Link was heavy, slow, and powerful. Young Link however, was faster, but weaker and Lighter. but get this-he had a WORSE recovery. SO they essentially took Link, nerfed him, and gave him a worse recovery. so unsurprisingly, Link was the better of the two.

fast forward to Brawl.

Toon Link is what Young Link was Supposed to be. he had better killing moves, longer range, his bombs have larger explosions-and best of all- a better recovery. somehow, these changes actually IMPROVED the playstyle of Links. also, because the already borderline Low/Mid tier Link actually WAS Nerfed pretty ****ing bad, Toon Link stole all the spotlight from his predecessor- like what Doc did to Mario in Melee.

irony sucks, eh?

 

[Swordplay]

However, dtilt spikebox. :Þ

Problem is not the D-tilt. but Auto Sweet spot ledges. Without them, it would be an amazing move.


Seriously though, link is not bad because of poor this or that.........2 things make him bad that affect his entire game (including recovery and blah blah blah) He is bad because he has flat out poor physics and laggy moveset.

He is a heavy weight in mid weight cloths.

This is compounded by the basic features for brawl such as ASL and lack of shield stun. (Think about it hard. shield stun helps him more than it hurts him. For a guy who plays B+ with shield stun, I get WAY more shield breaks than I do in VB. Not to mention it helps tether grabs slightly more as regular grabs become less OP.)

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

Problem is not the D-tilt. but Auto Sweet spot ledges. Without them, it would be an amazing move.


Seriously though, link is not bad because of poor this or that.........2 things make him bad that affect his entire game (including recovery and blah blah blah) He is bad because he has flat out poor physics and laggy moveset.

He is a heavy weight in mid weight cloths.

This is compounded by the basic features for brawl such as ASL and lack of shield stun. (Think about it hard. shield stun helps him more than it hurts him. For a guy who plays B+ with shield stun, I get WAY more shield breaks than I do in VB. Not to mention it helps tether grabs slightly more as regular grabs become less OP.)

If not for autosweetspot ledges, half the cast could just Dtilt Link during his upB and then edgehog him. xD Or at least I think that would happen...

And yeah yeah, we know it's his features as a whole that limit him, not any one thing in particular.

Also... the part I bolded... are you calling Link fat?

 

[Lawz.]

Blubba makes a very good point. Sure if there were no auto sweet spotting we could possibly use dtilt, but then characters like the ICs could just dtilt semi spike when they want to edgeguard. So I would be happy that there's auto sweet spots.

 

[Death Arcana]

wish link still had wall grapple instead of tether recovery

 

[Death Arcana]

yes i am sure link will be higher based on tourneys

My bad double posting :/

 

[mars16]

Link should be above falcon but probably lower than jiggs but that's it.

What makes yu say this.

 

[BlueShield]

Meh. Its really because of 2 things that Link is so low.

1. His recovery really does suck THAT bad.
2. Though, IMO anyway, he is pretty strong despite being slow his ATs and Ticks and etc need months of practice for perfection to actually use them in a real fight, let alone a tourney match, and 70% of them arent useful anyway.

In any case I think he should at least be higher than C. Falcon. His match-ups are worse than Link's and Link has more killing potential, more gimping options and better stuff in general.(IMO again)

So yea. But what that Smash Director said on page 3 or 4? That the bottom tier will stay as is for the rest of Brawl's life was pretty shocking. I'd still like to see some miracle happen with Link's metagame. Aw well, still just a game anyway, I like friendly competitive play more than tourney, i'llripyourheadoff, competitive play. xD

 

[FatalFrost]

Link should be a low C or High D. His playing style is slow, but he can lead a lot of his attacks into combos. His projectiles also keep his opponent on their feet. And his DAC just *****. One thing I think people overlook is his Zair. That can really put your opponent in a bad position. And yes, as most people in this thread have mentioned, Link's recovery sucks. But let's move past that.

 

[Lawz.]

Link should be a low C or High D. His playing style is slow, but he can lead a lot of his attacks into combos. His projectiles also keep his opponent on their feet. And his DAC just *****. One thing I think people overlook is his Zair. That can really put your opponent in a bad position. And yes, as most people in this thread have mentioned, Link's recovery sucks. But let's move past that.

No, not even close. Link will never make it out of low tier. His DAC gets too predictable, a smart opponent will be able to punish it. His projectiles are pretty easy to get around by shielding. He can't combo without putting himself in danger of being punished due to his laggy moves. He gets juggled easily by many characters such as Fox. He gets CGed by characters like Falco and D3 way too easily. His recovery is easily gimped so that's the loss of a stock.

Link sucks.

 

[professor mgw]

Easily gimped, too heavy.

Nothing compared to MK.

 

[00000]

Easily gimped, too heavy.

Nothing compared to MK.

..........

 

[CaliburChamp]

Captain Falcon is better than Link, cause he is alot faster, both in the air and on the ground. Weighs like the same as Link, and has a better recovery. Has good amount of KO moves... just like Link. However, Link might be better than CF when played on wifi basically cause you can't powershield that great.

 

[Anonano]

Don't post simply to talk down another character, Professor MGW. This is your warning.

Although no Link main has mastered the whiplash technique yet, it makes any horizontal recovery for Link obsolete and unnecessary. Survive a fresh Falco dsmash at 250% by grabbing the ledge? Link can.
Surviving vertical hits is also fairly easy for Link, due to his amazing FF, MC aerials, and his... heavy weight. Survive a fresh, tippered Marth fsmash at the edge of the stage at 170%? No problem. Survive a fresh Ike usmash at 180%? Link can do it.

Thank you, heavy weight.

 

[00000]

Captain Falcon is better than Link, cause he is alot faster, both in the air and on the ground. Weighs like the same as Link, and has a better recovery. Has good amount of KO moves... just like Link. However, Link might be better than CF when played on wifi basically cause you can't powershield that great.

I love how your argument is so one-sided and opinionated.

Surviving vertical hits is also fairly easy for Link, due to his amazing FF, MC aerials, and his... heavy weight. Survive a fresh, tippered Marth fsmash at the edge of the stage at 170%? No problem. Survive a fresh Ike usmash at 180%? Link can do it.

What are MC aerials?

 

[Anonano]

Momentum Cancel aerials are just aerials that are good for momentum cancelling (redundantly redundant explanation). The only aerial that Link has that ISN'T good for MCing is uair. And that is debatable.

 

[00000]

Momentum Cancel aerials are just aerials that are good for momentum cancelling (redundantly redundant explanation). The only aerial that Link has that ISN'T good for MCing is uair. And that is debatable.

But all aerials the same for momentum cancelling as long as they don't shift momentum, e.g. Sheik's dair––or so I've heard.

 

[ndayday]

If I understand the concept right, they aren't the same due to frame durations.

For example, Bair was (and I assume is still) the best MC option for Link because it has the least amount of total frames.

 

[00000]

If I understand the concept right, they aren't the same due to frame durations.

For example, Bair was (and I assume is still) the best MC option for Link because it has the least amount of total frames.

That's only really applicable if you want to do something (other than drift back towards the stage) after you momentum cancel, e.g. bucket brake.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't post simply to talk down another character, Professor MGW. This is your warning.

Although no Link main has mastered the whiplash technique yet, it makes any horizontal recovery for Link obsolete and unnecessary. Survive a fresh Falco dsmash at 250% by grabbing the ledge? Link can.
Surviving vertical hits is also fairly easy for Link, due to his amazing FF, MC aerials, and his... heavy weight. Survive a fresh, tippered Marth fsmash at the edge of the stage at 170%? No problem. Survive a fresh Ike usmash at 180%? Link can do it.

Thank you, heavy weight.

I can't even do it.

This would greatly help his recovery if he could do it consistently, even if some moves will make him go more vertical.

 

[Wafflez]

I'm surprised this discussion is still carrying on.

I'd just like to state that any sort of position Link carries on the tier list is irrelevant- we don't main Link because he's a good character. If you DO, you have a screw loose.

Link sucks and there's really no hope for him when stacked up against the rest of the roster in Brawl. Just about everyone should know that at this point. The only reason any of you main Link is because your raging LoZ fanboyism within you refuses to allow you to main another character with a straight face. Plus Link is just plain fun and badass, so when you discuss how he should or might become slightly better when already oh so many characters are above him with RIDICULOUSLY lopsided matchup ratios against him, it all seems a bit futile.

If you people want to debate Link's metagame, there should be a metagame thread for that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wait, Link isn't top tier?!

PEOPLE LIED TO ME!

on topic:

I think Falcon being above Link is a joke, thoughts?

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

The only reason any of you main Link is because your raging LoZ fanboyism within you refuses to allow you to main another character with a straight face. Plus Link is just plain fun and badass

QFT





The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

I think Falcon being above Link is a joke, thoughts?

CF > Link

CF may not have much priority but his faster moves, ability to combo, and better recovery make sure that he stays above Link in the tier list.

 

[galekill]

Don't forget CF's heavier.

Red Ryu for scrub tier. :]

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yes of course lets forget about his easily punishable moves, lack of priority and awful recovery, although it's slightly better than Link's but not by much.

Both have simular ending lag problems however Link can get away with it more with his Disjointed range of a sword while Falcon can be punished much more easily on most of his attacks. Link has a projectile game which can help him force his opponents to approach or try and PS for 8 minutes while Falcon has to approach if he wanted to get a stock lead. Falcon can't combo into any kill moves unless you count ledge canceling which is avoidable if you know anything about it, Link can string moves into KOs with projectiles and even some of his ground game.

Link has to deal with 70:30's at worst which are only winnable in a blue moon, Falcon can't do crap to IC, Shiek, & Pikachu some of which are 80:20 or worse. IC will grab him out of every approach, Shiek can spam needles and tilt lock to death, Pikachu will CG him to 100%+.

Yeah, I can't buy CF>Link after looking at all that.

Gale, go back to AiB and stop trolling. Sure I'm a scrub, whatever not like it matters that much.

 

[00000]

Don't forget CF's heavier.

he's not... no he's not.

 

[Maniclysane]

CF > Link

CF may not have much priority but his faster moves, ability to combo, and better recovery make sure that he stays above Link in the tier list.

Lmao, ability to combo?

Link is easily better than Captain Falcon. ANY character with disjoint can keep a Captain Falcon away. On the other hand, link is a ranged character, with disjoint.

I don't see how Captain Falcon is any better than Link.

 

[Beam Sword of Death]

CF > Link

CF may not have much priority but his faster moves, ability to combo, and better recovery make sure that he stays above Link in the tier list.

haha! CF better than Link?? Are we playing the same game?
Recovery is all CF has on Link. Link's range and disjointed hitbox are what make him better. Using proper spacing and technique, Link destroys CF.
If people knew how to use Link correctly, they could really kick some butt.

 

[LuLLo]

Lmao, ability to combo?

Link is easily better than Captain Falcon. ANY character with disjoint can keep a Captain Falcon away. On the other hand, link is a ranged character, with disjoint.

I don't see how Captain Falcon is any better than Link.

Falcon can easily close in on opponents (which btw is useless since his approaches suck), his speed and mobility prevent HEAVY camping on him, he's no Ganon or Bowser. And yes, Falcon has the ability to ''combo'', his jab (which is one of the best in the game) when cancelled allows for tilt follow-ups, grab (which is virtually inevitable), Up-B, mindgames, etc. Fastfalling the FH-Nair also gives acces to jab, grab, tilts and more. So yeah, he has pretty reliable ways to set up stuff, combine that with his speed and mobility and voila.

And don't get me wrong btw, I heavily agree that Link should be higher, much higher, I've played one of the best Falcons (Rebaz) and the matches were even, and I've played a few good Links, which were far more of a challenge than one of the best Falcons.

haha! CF better than Link?? Are we playing the same game?
Recovery is all CF has on Link. Link's range and disjointed hitbox are what make him better. Using proper spacing and technique, Link destroys CF.
If people knew how to use Link correctly, they could really kick some butt.

Falcon has speed, mobility, he's heavy, he's got ''combo's'', an infinite on R.O.B. (and possibly more characters)...
And you're right imo, Link is far better, but recovery is not the only thing Falcon has on Link.

 

[Realmz]

Didn't a Link win a pretty decent tournament recently? Even with that aside, I'm pretty sure Link and Captain Falcon should switch places on the tier list.

 

[Anonano]

The Link that won a 79-person tourney was Blubba Pinecone (North Dakota I think).

Its intense that he won it, but currently there aren't too many other great players from there.