Link's Match-up Thread: Ryu would like an answer to a question.

[smashkng]

Since when was Link's Fsmash SDIable? But Link's Usmash is definitely easy to SDI out of.

 

[IYM!]

WOW to many falcon mains here!!!!!

0-100 Falcon's advantage
Pr00fz h3r3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLHOYnrI42c

hey dont feel very entusiastam because link loose in this matc, that wasnt a very good link, he do a lot of mistaken, That was a Wifi combat???


Link have stronger moves than falcon, i dont forget falcon pawnch, but is dificult to conect it in a single match, also we have more range than falcon

our projectiles , used by the correctly way, can stop many posibilities of falcon to attack, he need be close to us to do a hit

Falcon is easy to gimp, his recovery isnt very good and also his falcon dive is not a hit, is a grab so we can easily entrust the ledge to prevent he come back (remember Zair guarding)

he is tall, we can use our Zair in ground too ( with a SH i mean)

his Fsmash have a ending lag than is easy to punish, block it and do a grab

Watch out with raptor bost in air and in ground ( he is invecible while he is performing his side B

IS TIME TO US TO SHOW OUR MOVES!!!!!

 

[smashkng]

Raptor Boost hasn't any type of invincibility, and is actually known for being extremely easy to stop by either hitting Falcon or just shielding it and punishing it.

 

[quirkynature]

Raptor Boost hasn't any type of invincibility, and is actually known for being extremely easy to stop by either hitting Falcon or just shielding it and punishing it.

Same goes for WizKick, I assume?

Edit: Sorry for the double post.

 

[quirkynature]

Raptor Boost hasn't any type of invincibility, and is actually known for being extremely easy to stop by either hitting Falcon or just shielding it and punishing it.

Same goes for WizKick, I assume?

 

[†Slader7†]

WOW to many falcon mains here!!!!!

yay, link boards haz ppls :D

hey dont feel very entusiastam because link loose in this matc, that wasnt a very good link, he do a lot of mistaken, That was a Wifi combat???

True that but the Izaw vs Haze was still an epic match.

Link have stronger moves than falcon, i dont forget falcon pawnch, but is dificult to conect it in a single match, also we have more range than falcon

Link sure does have better range but Falcon has stronger moves.
Link has his FSmash, Dsmash, Dair, and maybe Fair that good kill moves.
However Falcon has Uair, Knee of Justice, Bair, Dair (sour and sweet spotted), his 3 Smashes, and Utilt which kill around 60%-110%

our projectiles , used by the correctly way, can stop many posibilities of falcon to attack, he need be close to us to do a hit

Link's projectiles are good, but not great. Arrows and boomerangs can be canceled out by Falcon's jab. Bombs are slow compared to Falcon's speed.

Falcon is easy to gimp, his recovery isnt very good and also his falcon dive is not a hit, is a grab so we can easily entrust the ledge to prevent he come back (remember Zair guarding)

lol Link mains saying other characters have a bad recovery
While Falcon's recover is not the best, it is certainly better than Link's. I forgot the last time I've seen Zair Guarding so not much I can say about that.

he is tall, we can use our Zair in ground too ( with a SH i mean)

That is Link's primary advantage. Zair annoys the hell out of me. However, that's nothing simple shielding/dodging can't fix if it's spammed.

his Fsmash have a ending lag than is easy to punish, block it and do a grab

lol I'm not sure if you're talking about wifi or not
Personally I don't use Fsmash due it being slow and not enough range. I can assure you that a good Falcon would not use Fsmash as their primary kill move.

Watch out with raptor bost in air and in ground ( he is invecible while he is performing his side B

I laughed, a lot
Falcons don't like to use Raptor Boost for recover since its highly punishable. We tend to recover using Falcon Dive from the bottom if possible. If you like to edge hog, remember Falcon can always stage spike you if you're not careful.

IS TIME TO US TO SHOW OUR MOVES!!!!!

Moves Shown
I think its pretty even 5-5
if not more towards Falcon's favor

 

[teluoborg]

I guess it's Falcon's advantage, just by a little margin but it's visible.
The main reason is that Falcon can abuse his most effective moves against Link without real fear of retaliation.

The first one is jab, obviously. Link can't shieldgrab canceled jabs. He can't break them with his own jab either, all he can do is SDI/roll out and zone Falcon with Zair and the likes.

Next is Uair, usually Falcon's most spammable move. It's not as spammable here because of Link's Zair and bombs and stuff but it's still very powerful.

Then comes flub knee, your worst enemy offstage. Gimps you 70% of the time, and when it doesn't it can be followed by a Uair that will crush your last hopes of recovery. So when thrown offstage recover fast or die.

Now I said that Falcon only has a slight advantage, it's because a good (spammy) Link is a pain to approach.
So sure, you're screwed when Falcon gets in jab range, but when he's not you got like 50 options to keep him away, so use them.

55-45 Falcon's advantage.

Edit@quirkynature : Falcon kyick is faster than raptor boost but it's even more punishable. Falcon kick is so punishable you can punish it even if you got hit, because you get out of hitstun before Falcon finishes his animation.

 

[Darky-Sama]

The problem with Falcon Kick is that it DOES have priority and usually goes through most attacks used against it. Which actually causes a problem at lower percents, it has poor knockback, leaving them the opportunity to punish the cooldown time even if it does hit. If they shield it, Falcon can be punished even more horribly.

The only time I see Falcon Kick being of any use is in the air, where you won't hit the ground with it and have cooldown time, or going off a ledge so you can cancel it that way.

Also, Raptor Boost isn't horrible. Spotdodging at the right time can allow him to be punished, but if the timing isn't perfect on the spotdodge, it will set off the attack portion of the Raptor Boost. The good thing about Raptor Boost is even if they do shield, Falcon can always jab or stutterstep backward and use another one immediately since it doesn't have hardly any cooldown time. It really is an amazing attack, in my opinion. But it's not worth abusing.

 

[quirkynature]

Edit@quirkynature : Falcon kyick is faster than raptor boost but it's even more punishable. Falcon kick is so punishable you can punish it even if you got hit, because you get out of hitstun before Falcon finishes his animation.

Judging by all these excellent post, I'm going to make a few assumptions:

A spammy Link is a pain for CF. Spam away.

SH Z-air: good. Ultra-spamming it: bad.

Don't let Falcon get inside your hitbox. That's ****. That's true for any character versing Link.

Falcon's jabs. A pain in Link's butt.

CFs will very rarely or never use Falcon Kyick because of its ending lag.

A misplaced D-air is just asking for an F-smash. I'm guessing Falcon Pawnch has too much starting lag to successfully punish D-air's landing lag?

Z-air ledgehog must be carefully done or CF might stage spike you.

I'm going to agree with the guys saying 55-45 Falcon.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Spamming recklessly is actually really bad against Falcon. It's difficult to keep enough distance to really pressure Falcon with projectiles due to his speed and it's even more ridiculously if he gets his hand on a bomb. Boomerang? Falcon can charge smashes and glide across the stage with it (like most characters) to get close to Link. I remember comboing IYW with a Fsmash (that canceled off the ledge after hitting, thanks to the boomerang) -> Boomerang Boosted Knee. Sexy moments.

Like most match-ups, Falcon's dash -> shield is amazing. Nice way to approach while fending off the somewhat predictable projectiles thrown toward him at a distance. So spamming, feel free to do so, but Falcon *can* and probably *will* use them against him.

 

[Zeallyx]

Now I said that Falcon only has a slight advantage, it's because a good (spammy) Link is a pain to approach.
So sure, you're screwed when Falcon gets in jab range, but when he's not you got like 50 options to keep him away, so use them.

55-45 Falcon's advantage.

How can you say something like that, and still say falcon's advantage..?

It's def. link's advantage.

 

[IYM!]

and Utilt which kill around 60%-110%

RLY U-tilt can do that??? i never been killed by a falcon U-tilt, so i dont have nothing to say

I laughed, a lot
Falcons don't like to use Raptor Boost for recover since its highly punishable. We tend to recover using Falcon Dive from the bottom if possible. If you like to edge hog, remember Falcon can always stage spike you if you're not careful.

I know that Falcon does not use his sideB to recover, but i see many falcon mains do it when the oponent are in front of him in the air (when falcon also try to recover).

agree with 50-50 Link-falcon

 

[teluoborg]

I only use FK if :
-I'm so close that the opponent will be thrown in a special trajectory, making it less punishable
-i can finish it offstage, making it less punishable too.

Else pretty much what you said, spam Zair and you'll eat a dash attack.

Edit :

How can you say something like that, and still say falcon's advantage..?

It's def. link's advantage.

Link's mobility is crap, he can't run away for the whole match. Nuff said.

 

[Zeallyx]

Edit :
Link's mobility is crap, he can't run away for the whole match. Nuff said.

That's not 'nuff said' at all..

 

[lordhelmet]

Teluoborg is right mang

 

[quirkynature]

Spamming recklessly is actually really bad against Falcon.

Spamming recklessly against any character is really bad for all the reasons you listed. Worse against say, I don't know, Meta Knight? No decent Link player is going to be a reckless spam junkie unless he's looking to get his butt handed to him over and over again.

Unless you're me, and the 'Rang consists of half your metagame...

Link's mobility is crap, he can't run away for the whole match. Nuff said.

True, that. Link ain't no Sonic. Mobility isn't our problem, though.

If Sakurai intends to keep having a heavy Link in SSBs, there should be a pallet swap for a Fat Link. At least it'd be appropriate. Brawl Vault, here I come...

Getting off the tangent bus, I still think it's a 55-45 Falcon ad primarily because of Falcon's mobility. The Haze v Izaw match is decent example of top tier play against two low tier characters.

 

[Zeallyx]

Teluoborg is right mang

No he's not mang

 

[Darky-Sama]

Actually, I see it being less risky using them against Meta Knight than Falcon. Meta Knight can punish Link more for all the obvious reasons, but it's easier to pressure MK with projectiles than it is Falcon.

What I meant was using your projectiles at a distance. If you want to use something effectively, I'd say use a lot of Z-Bomb drops and throwing them down while in midair like KirinBlaze. That was the main thing that placed me at a disadvantage when playing against him due to all the ridiculous gimmicks he'd use with it. Also, reverse glide toss away from Falcon with them for spacing for spacing.

...and ban Battlefield.

 

[quirkynature]

Ah. I misunderstood your viewpoint earlier. Thanks for the clarification.

While we're banning Battlefield, I'm assuming small stages against Falcon are bad for Link?

 

[Lawz.]

Ah. I misunderstood your viewpoint earlier. Thanks for the clarification.

While we're banning Battlefield, I'm assuming small stages against Falcon are bad for Link?

Less space makes it harder for Link to keep Falcon out.

and to clarify to whoever said this before...Fsmash is not SDIable seriously wtf

 

[lordhelmet]

I was referring to the two-hit fsmash ****he.

If that's not SDIable anyway then I got my facts messed up

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yes, avoid stages that would limit Link's ability to camp in this match-up. Falcon already has the ability to keep within Link's comfort zone fairly easy, so giving him an even greater edge with his platform pressuring isn't worth it.

Battlefield limits Link's ability to camp and gives Falcon an even greater edge due to the platforms, so cross that out, definantly. Legan counterpicked Brinstar against my Falcon once and came close to winning the set, so I can't really say that Brinstar is 'horrible' for him. I just wouldn't recommend going there either.

 

[Lawz.]

I was referring to the two-hit fsmash ****he.

If that's not SDIable anyway then I got my facts messed up

You're probably thinking about Gay's fsmash. His you can SDI, Link's just sends you flying whether you get hit by the first or second part of fsmash.

 

[Anaky]

Link vs Falcon 55/45 Link imo, ive played many Falcons wit Link, im not rly good at pointing stuff otu but from my experiance thats what i think.

 

[Anaky]

Sorry Double Post Smashboards Is Playing Up.

 

[IYM!]

if small stage is bad for Link them We have to ban FD, BF, SV and YI?

only took PS1, PS2 , norfair and delfino

 

[Huggles828]

HYESZ!!!!

This matchup is roughly even, maybe slightly in either character's favor I think. Captain Falcon is fast and can keep pressure on people, is pretty good at edgeguarding, has a good recovery, and with DI lives juuuust under where Link will live (assuming he isn't gimped). Link has range (and projectiles), outprioritizes Falcon, and has his poor recovery to worry about, so make sure you recover smart and mix it up, as always.
Zair is great for Link, and projectiles can be used, but be careful since Falcon is great at punishing lag; make sure you hit. When I play Falcon I love jabbing into a grab. I don't usually spam the knee too much since it's a risky move with low priority and short range, and he's probably better off using uair or bair in most situations, but if you whiff a dair and don't autocancel or do some other very laggy move like grounded B up you can expect a nice dose of justice to be delivered. Falcons are going to be good at baiting attacks then punishing. I think proper spacing will be very important in this battle.

Link's Usmash is harder to DI than it seems on paper but still doable. Falcon's jab is very nice. Falcon Kick has very little priority (I think Link's jab beats it; at the least they clank. Anyone know for sure what it beats/ loses to?). Raptor Boost has very low priority too and I'm pretty sure it loses to most stuff we have. Both characters have a variety of ways to kill the other. Can Falcon consistently air release Link like he can Wario and MK?

Falcon's Utilt semispikes pretty hard. Whiplash is probably pretty nice against it I would guess.

Captain Falcon used to be my main, but that was before I even started lurking SWF thinking about joining, so most of what I know of him is probably a little outdated or even wrong, since I doubt I know some of his best ATs so take what I say with a grain of salt; I might have this entirely wrong.

 

[Rizen]

Link's projectile game is not that good. The only projectile that gives us trouble is Zair, but with Falcon's mobility (and shield) we can get around it. Link can't kill Falcon. We should be getting to 180% every stock.

A defensive Link has a lot of projectile options, in particular bombs. And Falcon must approach. Link can be a pain when spamming approaches.
With wiplash and great DI/star KO resistance Link can survive to 150%+ easily unless he's gimped.

Link is easy to gimp and Falcon can also cancel all the projectiles with the jab.

Bombs and charged arrows? No way.

The problem with Falcon Kick is that it DOES have priority and usually goes through most attacks used against it. Which actually causes a problem at lower percents, it has poor knockback, leaving them the opportunity to punish the cooldown time even if it does hit. If they shield it, Falcon can be punished even more horribly.

The only time I see Falcon Kick being of any use is in the air, where you won't hit the ground with it and have cooldown time, or going off a ledge so you can cancel it that way.

Also, Raptor Boost isn't horrible. Spotdodging at the right time can allow him to be punished, but if the timing isn't perfect on the spotdodge, it will set off the attack portion of the Raptor Boost. The good thing about Raptor Boost is even if they do shield, Falcon can always jab or stutterstep backward and use another one immediately since it doesn't have hardly any cooldown time. It really is an amazing attack, in my opinion. But it's not worth abusing.

Link can shoot or grab Falcon out of these.

Less space makes it harder for Link to keep Falcon out.

and to clarify to whoever said this before...Fsmash is not SDIable seriously wtf

^Seriously.

If C Falcon (and every character) couldn't hit Link sideways off stage for easy KOs, I would say 55-45 or 50-50 Link. But he can so 55-45 or 50-50 Falcon. For Link I'd CP Halberd, Falco should CP Frigate.
As Link we're going to play a defensive moving camp/abuse Zair and our reach and punish reactions. Both characters are easy to combo but Link's easier. The MU's a battle between almost opposite aggression/defensive styles.

 

[lordhelmet]

Now I see why the good Links moved to AiB :S

 

[Player-3]

HAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHaAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
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ARE YOU SERIOUS @ THIS THREAD?

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZKZkC8u3_c

WHAT MADE THIS THREAD FUNNY WAS THAT 2KNEE THINKS THAT HE'S RIGHT

oh my god

thank you, i just had one of the best laughs i've had in a few days

 

[Rizen]

Now I see why the good Links moved to AiB :S

It was the same basic discussion.
The general agreement is 50-50. 'Thanks to the Falcons who contributed.
There's not much more to be said; I suggest moving on...

 

[quirkynature]

Might I ask for Bowser? I find him remarkably easy to juggle and gimp (seeing how his up-B's recovery is poor vertically but great horizontally).

 

[IYM!]

mmm maybe could be 55-45 link favor, but 50-50 is OK too

i think bowser too , he is an interesting character to discuss,
he is some agile considering the big tan he is and have dangerous moves

off of topic question: What mean juggle exactly?

is dominate the oponent or somethink like that

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't get how Falcon's speed alone is going to make his approaching so much better against Link.

Most of his moves, as in the frame rate of his moves, are actually on par in terms of speed in a lot of cases with Link's. Falcon has a faster ground option in the terms of jab, which Link can out space with his own jab. Unless his fists are magnets I don't get how just jabbing is going to stop all arrows and boomerangs that go at Falcon. Even despite this Link has better priority in a lot of aspects. It's slower but the added range makes up for the lack of pure speed.

Link is going to live as long as Falcon, if not Falcon will live a bit longer. Falcon has a slightly better recovery, but lacks options to fight for the ledge, Link has these, even if they aren't that great.

I don't see how his speed makes up for this, Sonic for his speed also has other moves, Spin dash is a big one, that make up for his lack of priority by giving him better mind game potential and better punishing capabilities. Falcon can punish because of his speed.

I just don't see how Falcon has even a slight advantage when he's getting camped, getting out prioritized, and lacks options.

Don't get me wrong this is a 50:50, imo, but I don't see how people think it's a walk in the park for Falcon to gimp and approach Link.

 

[Scabe]

Just handed a few infractions out, thanks guys for ignoring some of those posts.

I also want to thank the Captain Falcon's for answering alot of the stuff we're unsure about, and thanks for all your input.

I think the matchup is pretty even but in a slight favor for Falcon. Captain Falcon's really fast and can get up in Link's face even quite easily. When he gets up close it can be overwhelming to do deal with Falcon's Jab game.

Link's projectile spam can be hard to deal for Falcon, can make it very hard for Falcon to approach. It's all kind of momentum in this game, there'll be moments where Link wins in the medium long range game and then when Falcon get's close he'll win close up game and then it starts all over again.

Offstage they both have their own tools to gimp each other, so it's kinda who gets the other player offstage first wins.

For counterpicks I suggest big stages like Pictochat and FD so Link has more of a chance to keep away from Falcon's up close game. Strike Battlefield for Neutrals.

 

[Ryos4]

I agree with CF having a slight advantage. For some reason i have more trouble with CF then some of the higher tier characters. Course that might just be because either i run into them more (experience always helps), or the CF players have better technical skill for using a low tier character.

 

[†Slader7†]

Falcon Kick has very little priority (I think Link's jab beats it; at the least they clank. Anyone know for sure what it beats/ loses to?).

Falcon Kick has awesome priority. It can rip through MK's Tornado and Drill Rush so it can also rip through several of your attacks.

Raptor Boost has very low priority too and I'm pretty sure it loses to most stuff we have.

Yeah it has poor priority but hit has a huge hitbox and is usually faster than most of Link's options. Good Falcons don't abuse Raptor Boost since its pretty dangerous, it is used scarcely for surprises and punishing. However, if it does connect, expect to be juggled by Falcon's uair.

A defensive Link has a lot of projectile options, in particular bombs. And Falcon must approach. Link can be a pain when spamming approaches.

Yeah we can approach, or we can dodge your bombs and cancel out your arrows and boomerangs using our jab.

With wiplash and great DI/star KO resistance Link can survive to 150%+ easily unless he's gimped.

Falcons don't like to star ko since we lack the moves for it (besides Usmash). Expect us going for gimps more than building damage and KOing

Bombs and charged arrows? No way.

oh yes way

Link can shoot or grab Falcon out of these.

Your grab is hilariously slow imo. I wouldn't recommend using it against us or you could face the Knee of Justice. Falcon kick would be canceled out by arrows and boomerangs but it won't hurt us. Raptor boost would be activated by these projectiles as well, hitting you if you're close enough. If you want a good projectile, I would recommend using your bombs.

I don't get how Falcon's speed alone is going to make his approaching so much better against Link.

Quite easy. The match start, you finish charging your arrow and Falcon is already right behind you.

Most of his moves, as in the frame rate of his moves, are actually on par in terms of speed in a lot of cases with Link's. Falcon has a faster ground option in the terms of jab, which Link can out space with his own jab. Unless his fists are magnets I don't get how just jabbing is going to stop all arrows and boomerangs that go at Falcon. Even despite this Link has better priority in a lot of aspects. It's slower but the added range makes up for the lack of pure speed.

As said before, Falcon's jab does cancel out your projectiles. Deal with it. While Link does have better ranged attacks, they're also slow.

Link is going to live as long as Falcon, if not Falcon will live a bit longer. Falcon has a slightly better recovery, but lacks options to fight for the ledge, Link has these, even if they aren't that great.

KO wise, yeah Link is going to live as Falcon. Recovery wise, nope. Just be careful around the ledge because the Falcon Dive will easily stage spike you if you're not careful.

I don't see how his speed makes up for this, Sonic for his speed also has other moves, Spin dash is a big one, that make up for his lack of priority by giving him better mind game potential and better punishing capabilities. Falcon can punish because of his speed.

I'm not sure if you're trying to compare Falcon to Sonic. We're slower than sonic but we can kill a lot easier than the blue hedgehog.

I just don't see how Falcon has even a slight advantage when he's getting camped, getting out prioritized, and lacks options.

We have ways to get around your projectiles so getting camped (while possible) should not be a problem for Falcon. The biggest threat Link has is his Zair which is dangerous since Falcon would most likely be in the air. Also, priority is no excuse for poor spacing. Link has better priority and range due to his sword but that does not mean Falcon would always be in a frontal attack. Our playing style consists of baiting and punishing, not going fists vs swords all the time. You use Dair, we'll raptor boost and spam uair. You use jab, we'll get out of range and attack from a vantage point. You use Usmash, we'll punish the ending lag. Don't expect a "your Fsmash vs mine Fsmash" type of match.

I think this is leaning more into Falcon's advantage.

 

[IYM!]

well after read the entire thread, (only falcon im not so boring XD) i say 50-50

 

[Darky-Sama]

I can agree with 50:50, but not because of Link's projectile spam making it difficult for Falcon. If anything, it's generally easy to get around for Falcon at a distance. Link using ATs via bombs close up, however, yes. They're extremely useful.

The thing about Link is Falcon can actually play semi-aggressive once he gets close enough. It's generally easy to read what Link's options are because they're so limited aside from his projectiles, so his recovery is fairly easy to predict and punish, rather it's above or below stage. If Link's above the stage and recovering, Falcon can just space himself away with SH-FF backflips (or normal jumps) and dash -> grab Link upon landing, or maybe even something else, but I abuse his grab. Spaced bomb and Zair tricks are the main things Falcon has trouble getting around.

 

[IYM!]

well, i think we have finish with falcon, its time for change character or is too soon???


im only ask