Link's Match-up Thread: Ryu would like an answer to a question.

[Rizen]

F
Yeah we can approach, or we can dodge your bombs and cancel out your arrows and boomerangs using our jab.
oh yes way

Charged arrows will not be canceled, try it. Link can lightly throw bombs that move slow enough to detonate on Falcon after going through his jabs, or throw from jumps at different angles. Powershielding's the way to break through.

Falcon Kick has awesome priority. It can rip through MK's Tornado and Drill Rush so it can also rip through several of your attacks.
Yeah it has poor priority but hit has a huge hitbox and is usually faster than most of Link's options.
Your grab is hilariously slow imo. I wouldn't recommend using it against us or you could face the Knee of Justice. Falcon kick would be canceled out by arrows and boomerangs but it won't hurt us. Raptor boost would be activated by these projectiles as well, hitting you if you're close enough. If you want a good projectile, I would recommend using your bombs.

Tether grabs are cr***y, smart Links use them to punish. If we see a F Kick coming our grab will easily snag the kick without any risk of it hitting Link.

The thing about Link is Falcon can actually play semi-aggressive once he gets close enough. It's generally easy to read what Link's options are because they're so limited aside from his projectiles,

Link's not limited except up close and OoS, but his moves are all situational and easy to punish if we choose the wrong one.

We have ways to get around your projectiles so getting camped (while possible) should not be a problem for Falcon. The biggest threat Link has is his Zair which is dangerous since Falcon would most likely be in the air. Also, priority is no excuse for poor spacing. Link has better priority and range due to his sword but that does not mean Falcon would always be in a frontal attack. Our playing style consists of baiting and punishing, not going fists vs swords all the time. You use Dair, we'll raptor boost and spam uair. You use jab, we'll get out of range and attack from a vantage point. You use Usmash, we'll punish the ending lag. Don't expect a "your Fsmash vs mine Fsmash" type of match.

I think this is leaning more into Falcon's advantage.

Link's projectiles are not suited for camping, that's our few free shots. At mid and close range projectiles are spacing tools. Link relies on bait and punish in this match too and he has 3 projectile and Zair to help. Even at mid-close range Link can force approaches from Falcon and if we're smart we won't use laggy attacks we can't land.
Having said that, Link's recovery is awful and Falcon's isn't which tips the match slightly in Falcon's favor.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Quite easy. The match start, you finish charging your arrow and Falcon is already right behind you.

oh snap.

As said before, Falcon's jab does cancel out your projectiles. Deal with it. While Link does have better ranged attacks, they're also slow.

If Falcon stops to jab every arrow and boomerang thrown at him and they all hit his fists. :/ Honestly dash shielding in more reliable.

His moves are slower but the range adds in more safety.

KO wise, yeah Link is going to live as Falcon. Recovery wise, nope. Just be careful around the ledge because the Falcon Dive will easily stage spike you if you're not careful.

Falcon's recovery isn't that much better than Link's. Falcon can take advantage of Link's bad recovery more than Link can, however I don't think this sways the MU in his favor.

As for Falcon Dive stage spiking, all Link needs to do is double tap Z at the right time, Zairing the ledge, and he'll regain invincibility.

I'm not sure if you're trying to compare Falcon to Sonic. We're slower than sonic but we can kill a lot easier than the blue hedgehog.

In terms of kill power you have better, in terms of reliable killing and set-ups, Falcon lacks this. Plus Sonic has much better qualities to assist his speed compared to Falcon.

We have ways to get around your projectiles so getting camped (while possible) should not be a problem for Falcon. The biggest threat Link has is his Zair which is dangerous since Falcon would most likely be in the air. Also, priority is no excuse for poor spacing. Link has better priority and range due to his sword but that does not mean Falcon would always be in a frontal attack. Our playing style consists of baiting and punishing, not going fists vs swords all the time. You use Dair, we'll raptor boost and spam uair. You use jab, we'll get out of range and attack from a vantage point. You use Usmash, we'll punish the ending lag. Don't expect a "your Fsmash vs mine Fsmash" type of match.

You can get around it, but you have to work for it, which is key to this. Bombs are the big thing, boomerang is a small worry, arrows...well you got me there.

Look, I'm not assuming Fsmash hits Fsmash I'm assuming the usual moves clashing with one another on average. Falcon's attack speed is comparable to Link's in many cases, except Link is a tad slower but has superior range.

I think this is leaning more into Falcon's advantage.

I think it's a 50:50.

 

[Huggles828]

Falcon's recovery isn't that much better than Link's

I don't think Link's recovery is quite as bad (but it is still bad) as we used to think with proper DI and other techniques to help him out. He can usually make it back on the stage (unless you happen to be someone like MK who can gimp anybody) because he has a lot of tools and tricks to use (but I think Falcon is overall fast enough to be able to fairly successfully gimp Link if he can correctly read Link's shenaanigans). That said, Falcon's recovery is also much better than people give it credit for, both horizontally and vertically. Even if we ledgeguard with the clawshot, Falcon can usually squeak back onto stage because at the end of the dive he rolls himself up. He also has really good horizontal movement (both air speed and in his B up if it's facing the right way; if Falcon uses his B up and goes the opposite direction he was initially facing it goes a significant distance shorter horizontally). Also, Falcon suffers from the glitch where he retains the lag of his B up whenever he lands (like if he grabs the edge before touching the ground).
Offstage both characters can gimp each other, but it sounds like Falcon has an easier time of it and I think his recovery is good enough to give him a bump. The more I read this the more I start leaning slightly in Falcon's favor. They seem fairly evenly matched, by virtue of being strong in the area the other lacks, but Falcon's offstage game seems to make up more for his weaknesses.

Falcon Kick has very little priority (I think Link's jab beats it; at the least they clank. Anyone know for sure what it beats/ loses to?).

Falcon Kick has awesome priority. It can rip through MK's Tornado and Drill Rush so it can also rip through several of your attacks.

Thanks for correcting me. This is why I'm on here, to learn from people who are better than me. Haha, like I said, take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Yeah, Falcon Kick has tons of priority, but it's just really bad due to it's cooldown time. It can be punished beyond easily.

Also, Falcon Dive (Falcon's recovery) is considerably better than Links. Thing about Falcon Dive is that it's useful for punishing most characters that attempt to gimp / spike him while he's recovering. It also have decent mobility and control for getting around ledges and ledge-hogging.

Personally, I would say it's much, much better than Links. But you guys have a recovery that's better than Ganondorfs. lmfao.

 

[Zeallyx]

Let's just say 50-50.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Let's just say 50-50.

I second this.
Some Links are saying 55:45, Link.
Some Falcons are saying 55:45, Falcon.

50:50 does seem most accurate either way.

 

[Death Arcana]

id have to say 45:55 falcon
coming from a low tier tourney filled with falcons
that up air comes super fast and they can close in so fast
we definitely have a hard time in small stages.. (then again link always does)
which i was takin too every single time! (BF,BF,BF!!)

 

[IYM!]

I second this.
Some Links are saying 55:45, Link.
Some Falcons are saying 55:45, Falcon.

50:50 does seem most accurate either way.

Im totaly agree,

i think this match depends only of the abitlties of the player

 

[Berserker.]

I say 50:50
Captain Falcon has the speed, the TAUNT, the aerials and a better recovery (sadly), and can easily approach you.
For Link:
It is best to be defensive, CF will be forced to approach you, try to use a certain hit n' run strategy involving bomb throws or z-drops, possibly the other projectiles too, some attacks that space (Jab Combo works) and z-air, luckily if you get far enough make sure you try to camp him with different patterns of the projectiles, the biggest thing to remember, ALWAYS BRING A BOMB.
For CF:
Best stay in the Air, Link's a ground character.

 

[mars16]

I think 50:50

They both have the same amount of kill Power....

Link has Projectile

Falcon has High Prioirty kick and fast dash speed....

It seems even to me

 

[IYM!]

all depends of the abilities of the player, the two characters have good adventages.

Link have better range, projectiles, faster smashes, good DI and momentum cancel
C falcon have speed, good arials,and better recovery, stronger hits and easier to conect in battle


once again 50/50

 

[quirkynature]

Link/Falcon=50/50

Next character?

 

[Ryos4]

I guess there is no point of poking at the dead body over and over. I guess its probably time to move on since everyone seems to be in an agreement.

 

[Scabe]

How about Diddy? That's a matchup I really don't know that well despite playing it alot.

How do you deal with bananas? I might change the problematic moves to that as well haha.

 

[Ryos4]

All i know is that Diddy is horribly bad for Link. Even with a good stage pick (in my opinion good), I always either close to losing or lost to one of the Diddy players i use to play. Link just seems to have some serious trouble when it comes to Diddy. All of my other characters were able to whip his Diddy.

 

[Scabe]

Yeah I have alot of trouble with Diddy, it's usually up to last stock last hit with even decent Diddy's. I really have no idea how to deal with bananas/ use them against them.

Chuck at them and they'll find a way to like catch it back. They have all sorts of tricks like charging their Up B so that when the banana hits them, the barrel's fly off.

I know Link has like Banana Throw to Dash Attack/Grab. He can also Bombslide the banana into Dsmash.

I don't know what's better, trying to use the banana's against Diddy or just throwing them away.

We can gimp his Up B recovery with Nair and hit him with Dair

 

[Rizen]

I haven't played a good Diddy main but I have experience with good players with other mains.
Bananas:
Link has tons of options to take advantage of these. Catch them with dash attacks on the ground, airdodge/aerial attack before landing works too (i think). In the air 'Z' catch, aerial attack catch, air dodge. Hylian Shield will block them too. And once caught they'll be converted and Diddy can only have 2 onscreen. They vanish after a short time if left alone or when throw off screen. They are piercing range attacks and go through standard attacks.
Easy banana conversion: instant bomb throw, just with a banana.
We can spam bombs without worrying too much about Diddy using them because they explode. Throwing down or dropping a banana means Diddy has a trip hazard and one less banana to work with and Link keeps his full spamming potential.
Link can do everything with bananas he can do with bombs: airdodge>Zair, Fsmash, instant catch/throw, drop, 'invinci-banana', chaining, and throws in all 4 directions.
Link can out-spam diddy easily, and Diddy's peanut gun is lower priority than everything Link has. I've been most successful holding or throwing bananas up/down or dropping them and rarely attacking directly. The idea was to keep the spam power margin so Link has the biggest advantage possible. Diddy can re-convert bananas easily so keep them on screen and out of his reach.
Zair>BananaFsmash is a good option. We can throw them up wards and instant catch/throw to keep them from vanishing until interrupted.
Diddy can do scary things with banana peels if he gets momentum.

 

[IYM!]

is oficial then??

Diddy kong now?

 

[quirkynature]

'invinci-banana'

I'm sorry for not posting anything useful but that really cracked me up.

I guess it's official. Diddy Kong it is.

 

[Huggles828]

I play as Diddy now and then, and it's all about his BONANAZ. They're really great. If we can limit the bananas I bet we can have a fighting chance, although I think even without two bananas out Diddy can probably still give us quite a fight. By the way, if someone ever pulls off a "bananastool jablock", that would be super epic (is that even possible?)

I really don't know that much about him though. I mostly goof around as him, although I've considered actually learning him as a secondary. Boo South Carolina having a dead Brawl community.

 

[Scabe]

Diddy Kong it is!

 

[quirkynature]

What's Diddy doing juxtaposed to Diddy....oh.

 

[QUIVO]

alright guys, this is what i do.

Throw banana, recatch with airdodge then cancel with zair, jc throw ****.

Bombs beat bananas. Stay in the air/platform.

Bair footstool dair is a **** combo, you can even follow it up with zair to grab or whatever.

Arrows aren't that good since you'll only get a trade off and you're left in a worse position.

zair nair all day.

bair out of shield.

****

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Link beats Diddy obv.

 

[quirkynature]

If Link can own a Deku Baba, a Diddy Kong holds no challenge.

I concur.

 

[Scabe]

Vex is just being silly. Please don't make posts like that again.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Vex is just being silly. Please don't make posts like that again.

I sense alot of anger in this post, I sry. ;[

 

[Rizen]

Stages vs Diddy:
I thing battlefield's the best starter because the platforms but that could be wrong (?).
Counters: Norfair as always, RC or Brinstar.
What do people think about Castle Siege and Lylat? I don't know this MU well.

Ban Frigate.

 

[Zeallyx]

So Falcon vs link 50-50 is final?

 

[quirkynature]

Stages vs Diddy:
I thing battlefield's the best starter because the platforms but that could be wrong (?).
Counters: Norfair as always, RC or Brinstar.
What do people think about Castle Siege and Lylat? I don't know this MU well.

Ban Frigate.

Assuming Diddy's rep isn't bloated, wouldn't the stage switches and the stage with the statues in CS provide a problem? From what I hear, his F-throw is a decent killer.

I know absolutely nothing about Diddy, so I apologize if I'm wrong.

So Falcon vs link 50-50 is final?

Falcon v Link is 50/50, yes.
Edit: Aizen-sama will be maaaad aattt meeeeeee. ^_^

 

[Huggles828]

So Falcon vs link 50-50 is final?

Personally I kinda think it might be 55-45 Falcon's favor but everyone seemed to agree it's about 50-50, so I guess we'll stick with that. I'll update the picture when I'm back from vacation.

 

[IYM!]

i think BT is OK the plat forms can give us a vertical projrctile game, at least, mre efective than diddy

 

[quirkynature]

So the final verdict on Link v Diddy is 30:70, primarily due to Diddy's fast moveset that absolutely ***** combined with his bananas, that we can counter/slightly negate with Z-air catching?

 

[IYM!]

if we attack him with a close range tactic, That will stop his bananas spaming?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

So the final verdict on Link v Diddy is 30:70, primarily due to Diddy's fast moveset that absolutely ***** combined with his bananas, that we can counter/slightly negate with Z-air catching?

It's not that bad, to be honest.

Diddy may have banana's which limit Link options on landing, and can place Link in terrible positions it's not something that will lock Link down like Falco, King DDD, or MK can. Like you said though Z catching is very crucial to this match-up. It takes a while to learn but trust me, this match-up gets a lot easier if you learn how to do it properly, that and instant tossing.

Link's livability, kill power, and spam game are really what help keep this from being a **** match-up. Still it's a bad one, just not 30:70 bad.

 

[Scabe]

We can gimp Diddy's Up B with Nair off stage.

I asked for some advice and got some from one of the best Australia players who like rapeeeee me hard when I play him.

@satra:
the diddy's that are playing you arent looking to read as much as attacking. reading with diddy hurts the opponent so much and its definitely something that other diddy's need to be doing.

as for the MU:i think its 60:40 diddy fav ofc.
Diddy kills link pretty much in every aspect. speed, OoS options, better projectile, better aerials and better recovery.
Whenever link is off stage a well place fair will gimp him, or even a peanut/banana.
with link, camping really is the only decent thing he has. But i think diddy is able to break through that projectile wall and just destroy him. all diddy needs in one slip and hes fast enough to put some pressure on you which link isnt to great at handling.

i could go on for a bit, but i dont know if you want me to keep going.

I should ask him for more

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

^
That sounds about right.

I played a couple Diddys at MLG and they told me that Link's projectile wall was the main thing we should emphasis on. That and our ability to live longer + kill power.

But Diddy still does better in most other aspects, which really is the cause of this MU being bad. Reading is a big thing with Diddy since he's looking for you to mess up and get dribbled to the ledge.

If you can separate Diddy from the banana's, as in stand in between him and some of them, do it. throwing them off stage or keeping him away from them is better than throwing them back, unless you instant toss them back. I'm not sure what tricks Link can do with banana, set up a jab lock or something.

 

[NOmoreTAS]

DD is really anoying.
I've played against some pro dd's in my country with my link, and i think their weak point are their bananas.

So just try to keep em away from you and bananas (I would recommend a lot the boomerang).
And use the bananas against theirselves.

If DD approaches to you just jab or grab him (not much recomended, just do it when you know that he will shield). And if he jumps, just zair him.

(Link for god tier)

 

[quirkynature]

So just try to keep em away from you and bananas (I would recommend a lot the boomerang).

(Link for god tier)

Seriously? Boomerang against bananas? Actually, I don't know how that'd work out. I'm pretty sure the 'rang has abysmal priority, but the bananas...? Guys?

Link IS in the god tier...the 'G' tier...

 

[NOmoreTAS]

Im not saying that link have to use always boomerang against DD. But i think it is useful for keeping dd away from you and the banana (well agains any char, lol). Many dd mainers just want to grab the banana pill in order to atk, so i think that boomerang is the best projectile against him.

Im just saying that Link's side B should have more priority for dd, thats all. Because I dont think that arrows or bombs are the best options.