Lucario Moveset Discussion:

[phi1ny3]

Quite honestly I want to do another move, this one's been kicked around enough imo.
6-6.5 imo for usmash, just because it's invaluable in certain positions doesn't mean it's practical, but I give it props for its pretty unique features and utility when it does come along.
I'd say fsmash or fair, but then again with how the lucario boards have gone on another dry spell that' asking for trouble (especially if the export gets only like 3 smallish posts on the use of moves like the aforementioned).

 

[The_Bear735]

I say we should do Bair or Nair. I love backwards approaching with Bair, it's great for people like Peach who rely on approaching at the exact level that you can reverse FF Bair approach. Nair needs more coverage, in general, as it is.

But Fair would be a good idea too.

 

[PrinceAlus]

Quite honestly I want to do another move, this one's been kicked around enough imo.
6-6.5 imo for usmash, just because it's invaluable in certain positions doesn't mean it's practical, but I give it props for its pretty unique features and utility when it does come along.
I'd say fsmash or fair, but then again with how the lucario boards have gone on another dry spell that' asking for trouble (especially if the export gets only like 3 smallish posts on the use of moves like the aforementioned).

Im done with Xports. If exports are needed so bad, someone else should create them and i'll link the thread to this.
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Begin!

 

[The_Bear735]

Nair is actually a spectacular move to use for when your opponent is recovering from above, above you and on a platform, and generally good for punishing ADs. I don't feel like wall of texting for it, but this is my general opinion on Nair. I consider it to be Lucario's second best aerial if you know what you're doing, though all of his aerials are pretty good.

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

Nair: decent knockback (+aura), pretty good powa!, its has little lag when landing so it would make for a good finisher to a near ground aerial string

BUT!
Short range, backed by its inability to be used more than once in 1 jump, and SHs, and i find it to be kinda laggy when in the air and not near landing (go ahead and prove me wrong i wont mind)

 

[D. Disciple]

I keep forgetting to post in this topic. Oh well.

Nair - I love this move, it's one of lucario's best moves to use. good knockback once you're at 50%, makes your opponent slide across the stage until they pass 40%. if you fear of landing with a bit of lag from another aerial you can get the beginning animation of nair to come out to cancel the lag, like bear said good punisher when people are air dodging, landing on a platform or my favorite, nair my opponents out of shield.

Gives you a nice safe spacing when you retreat or trying to attack the back side of your opponents shield mainly the upper area. love using it for a pop up attack when i'm hanging from the ledge and above all Lucario spins so it look likes he's dancing.

overall a 7/10

I'll give my input on the other moves later on. I'm at work right now.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I love this move, too bad its end lag makes it only usable in once in a jump. on the other hand, its ability to be used in a combo, its autocanceling, and other stuff already mentioned by everyone else gets this move a 7.5/10 imo.

 

[ShippoFoxFire]

Here's what I think about it.
1) SH FF Nair is an AMAZING option,

2)Comes out without much warning, not that it's quick, lucario's startup animation doesn't LOOK like it exists, like it just appears after a few frames.

3)This is usually an option when both percentages are high, when in the air with them and they expect a fair, a nair is something they dont really expect, and has some kill potential then.

4)I rate Nair about an 8/10, mostly because of it's amazing like quality, but it's ending lag hinders it from being anything higher.

 

[Nubsta5]

Nair has invisible sideways hitboxes on the lower and upper paw of Lucario. Test it and see.

It will hit just slightly in front and behind from where his paws are located.

Other than that, it's quick, a decent killer, makes a great rearward attack option that isn't bair, and is quick. It's also good for poking on platforms, like Dark and Bear said, and a semi-decent OoS option (for Lucario's horrid OoS game).

I personally tend to use it as a mind game. SH Nair, then fastfall and buffer some ground attack like dash attack or up tilt, can play animation tricks on the mind.

Oh, and 2 different types of hit boxes are pretty cool, too .

 

[phi1ny3]

This works well for a supplicate aerial for walling in conjunction with/after fair.
Auto-cancels, always very nice.
Oos response is good.
It's got it's use as a second aerial like almost any character, but with some stringability. If spaced and used what it's supposed to be used for, it's also decent on block too.
I'd give it 8/10, love this aerial, just make sure you don't lol yourself into going deep into your opponent if they're on the ground.

 

[HK Donut of the Blue Fire]

i died off this move in tournament >_> i used it while fighting and the lag from the move took me too far to recover T_T, i forgot to say i think its a 7.5/10

 

[F1ZZ]

Nair is great for recovery or ledge stalling. It works about 90% of the time and I find it very useful. Overall I would rate it a 7/10.

 

[Alus]

Wait a minute...what?

Recovery? Ledgestalling?

I don't think so...

 

[The_Bear735]

Nair is great for recovery or ledge stalling. It works about 90% of the time and I find it very useful. Overall I would rate it a 7/10.

You have to be ****ting me.

 

[Aurasmash14]

Nair is great for recovery or ledge stalling. It works about 90% of the time and I find it very useful. Overall I would rate it a 7/10.

Please explain. I honestly have no idea how you can use it for recovery.

 

[Alus]

I imagine that he uses Nair out of his 2nd jump...
This or he is talking about going against recovery...and against Planking....somehow.

Planking with Nair is impossible...

 

[The_Bear735]

Planking with nair is really just a suicide attempt.

 

[Aurasmash14]

I really have no idea what Fizz was thinking when he posted his 2 cents on Nair....

 

[Alus]

Forget FIZZ

I have no idea wtf his opponents were thinking when they didn't **** it for 90% of the time.

 

[F1ZZ]

I will try and get a video of what I am trying to explain. Maybe it is dumb or you guys just misunderstood me.

 

[The_Bear735]

F1ZZ, for your sake, what you described better be not what it seems like, which is a ledge hopped Nair to an ES recovery. Or just that you're using Nair when recovering back to the ledge. Both of those options are such **** bait, omg.

 

[hough123]

F1ZZ, for your sake, what you described better be not what it seems like, which is a ledge hopped Nair to an ES recovery. Or just that you're using Nair when recovering back to the ledge. Both of those options are such **** bait, omg.

I only use Nair off of the ledge as a quick surprise so I can get back on the stage,

 

[F1ZZ]

I am currently uploading the video. I believe my explaination may of confused everyone.

I was never good at explaining stuff.

 

[Alus]

I only use Nair off of the ledge as a quick surprise so I can get back on the stage,

Um...?

Get shieldgrabed?

I am currently uploading the video. I believe my explaination may of confused everyone.

I was never good at explaining stuff.

Hahaha ok.

 

[F1ZZ]

Ok everyone here is the video. The thing I am talking about is at 3:20. Sorry for the quality of the video, I will hopefully be getting a capture card soon.

I only use this at high percents because the knock back gives Lucario enough time to recover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPZ3WiWaMr0

 

[Alus]

Yeah..."Rapebait".

sorry

 

[The_Bear735]

omg lol


F1ZZ, that's exactly what I was saying is **** bait. Anyone with half a brain (or is MK/Marth) will just shield it and hug punish you HARD.



lol 2skilld and I both said **** bait lol

 

[F1ZZ]

Ok so do forget what I said. lol

So is Fair a better move to do in that situation?

 

[Mewter]

Ok so do forget what I said. lol

So is Fair a better move to do in that situation?

I just usually stick with Uair, just to punish those that are dumb enough to stand directly at the edge watching you.

 

[The_Bear735]

Ok so do forget what I said. lol

So is Fair a better move to do in that situation?

what you're trying to do is basically plank, and that's a really horrible option for Lucario. He's easy to punish when recovering and in air. If you try to do anything like the sort, you'll probably get punished for it badly.

 

[phi1ny3]

Actually, I've seen lucario do some okay planking, but it's a little difficult. uair, fair, and occasional BAS if they are standing too far away do work, but it certainly pales to other planking options other characters have.

 

[The_Bear735]

Any planking with Lucario is punish bait by someone like MK or Marth, who are almost trained to punish ledge recoveries with their smashes. Doing a "plank" is just begging for a punish via stage spike or hug.

 

[phi1ny3]

It's not as ineffective as you make it seem. Well spaced uairs with both a long range and lingering hitbox can hit anyone standing too close onstage while being safely under the stage lip for the most part, since it hits through the stage. In addition, BAS when done from a safe distance will also do okay and at worst they'll shield it. Azen and Lee have done this plenty of times, and while lucario's planking isn't exactly "stellar", it's something that'll get the job done.

 

[hough123]

Um...?

Get shieldgrabed? =P

I do it as a surprise, not really that often.
But the threats still there ='(

 

[D. Disciple]

Yeah I have to go with Phil and the others, planking isn't that bad with Lucario. I do it often when my opponent and I are at high percent, falling back and doing uairs if they get to close works a lot surprisingly and can often kill them. If a MK drops down on you, and you expect a dair coming, you can hit him with an uair from the flames and return back to the edge, and how Fizz did his nair, was very wise. Since the T.Link was charging a smash attack, he knocked him away with nair which gave him a lot of time to get back onto edge, even though he SD'd his 2nd stock but that's okay. Don't knock on something without going to well in thought about it guys, can it be punished? Of course, but not everyone is a genius at the game and will fall for these kind of things. Try some new strats before knocking it off as a bad thing.

Doing it on Delfino is also fun, cause you hit from the middle of the stage then ES to the other edge, or stall out a bit and land on the stage or something.

 

[phi1ny3]

Is it going to be practically unbreakable? No.
Is it worthwhile to try for a couple of times? Certainly, that's how good lucarios use it. Not only is planking good for gaining some shield time, you can occasionally snag a little more percent on them and also keep them guessing at what your "getup" pattern is.

 

[F1ZZ]

I agree that Lucario planking isn't that bad but what move is it better- Fair, Nair, Uair or should they be mixed up?

 

[Alus]

Fair could work if you want to try and keep Uair fresh I guess. Nair, The way you dropped yourself...I would avoid that... It just shouts out for edgehogs, even if you would walljump I wouldn't like it for this task.

eww.

Of course, but not everyone is a genius at the game and will fall for these kind of things.

I really really REALLY hate this line...

 

[Kitamerby]

In all honesty, I'm going to have to agree with Bear on the subject of lucario planking. It just shouldn't work on anyone with half a brain and a shield. Marth, Pit, and the like either have large hitboxes to reach the top of the stage while being still under the stage, or have enough aerial mobility/low enough landing lag to jump up, perform a quick, lagless attack and then pop back down. Lucario has none of these, other than uair if they're directly on top of you, which NOBODY should ever be.


In all honesty, Lucario's ledgegame as a whole is very mediocre and I honestly hate ever being on the ledge with lucario, as no matter what I do, it's really easy to punish anything I try with very little effort and often terrible, possibly even FATAL risks.

I'm gonna have to agree with Bear on this one.

 

[ckm]

this comment is very silly

i tl;dr'd your post when you repeatedly make incorrect statements so often, I lost count after the first paragraph.

this.

Lots of characters can punish fsmash, particularly if they are dashing in when you use it. MK can do pretty much whatever he wants to you without even PS it if he is dashing in when he shields. snake doesnt have to PS it either to punish with ftilt, and his dash attack works to punish as well.

Its pretty ironic that you called him a scrub for making a false statement when you clearly know less than you claim to. I do agree with you on one thing: fsmash is definitely alot better than dsmash because it is harder to punish. but harder doesnt mean impossible or even very difficult.

If you never get punished for using Fsmash, you either

a) are lying
b) play ****ty players or players that only use ****ty characters
c) almost never use fsmash
or d) are super pro at lucario and never use it when you can be punished.

I highly doubt it is D because i was in nevada for 4 days and never heard your name mentioned once when talking to the local players, and if C is true you need to learn how to play lucario.

That leaves A and B. I'll let you decide which is the case.