phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Well, whenever I think about it, it's a fast tilt, decent range for its purpose, and since you're almost never going to get a grab on a spacing aerial, this is your next best bet.
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Lucario Moveset Discussion:
- Thread starter PrinceAlus
- Start date
Alus
Smash Champion
*Is ready to quit*
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Utilt is really good also for using on the IASA frames of fsmash, since it will pretty much always hit someone who's rushing in if they weren't able to grab/PS (which if you're smart with fsmash, won't happen very much at all).
I think toying around with sourspotted utilts can also give some results, like maybe followups with jab or stuff like that.
I think toying around with sourspotted utilts can also give some results, like maybe followups with jab or stuff like that.
Mirachael
Smash Rookie
Fsmash -> Reverse utilt = Amazing.
Alus
Smash Champion
Mirachael
Smash Rookie
What? You've never turned your utilt around?
Alus
Smash Champion
I have...But I never linked a Fsmash to a Utilt...
Mirachael
Smash Rookie
Not linked, but in this manner. For us poor spacers.
Alus
Smash Champion
Sorry I can't read.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Actually, I've found that even normal utilt works just fine on nearly everyone who gets to greedy to punish fsmash's "end lag", the dash animation is slow enough to allow a normal utilt to get the job done often, especially if they take to the air.
ckm
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Messages
- 402
i have serious doubts about the benefit of a pivot uptilt.
wouldnt the pivot itself take frames to perform, therefore negating any benefit gained from using it backwards?
someone test it.
Does anyone know the frame data on utilt for the front hitbox?
Buffering uptilt out of an airdodge is really good, especially if you land with them behind you.
wouldnt the pivot itself take frames to perform, therefore negating any benefit gained from using it backwards?
someone test it.
Does anyone know the frame data on utilt for the front hitbox?
Buffering uptilt out of an airdodge is really good, especially if you land with them behind you.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yes, here's a good example of it being implemented:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4v3jY-IsRs
The match is a wee bit old, but you get the idea of it's use in conjunction with AD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4v3jY-IsRs
The match is a wee bit old, but you get the idea of it's use in conjunction with AD.
Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
I forget I have this move sometimes.
It can be a surprisingly decent kill move against Kirby or MK.
It can be a surprisingly decent kill move against Kirby or MK.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Yeah, it seems to go away in use during mid/high, so it actually gets surprisingly fresh at high % as well, which is good for killing light chars.
Probably one of the best moves to use out of roll as a last resort if he predicts it, since it's his fastest response and you'll be facing away if the opponent has moved away to try to punish.
Probably one of the best moves to use out of roll as a last resort if he predicts it, since it's his fastest response and you'll be facing away if the opponent has moved away to try to punish.
Timbers
check me out
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Vague enough to argue, but I'm not going to.
'Cuz I'm happy about who I am and what I am on the inside, not on the outside! I gotta be me!
ckm
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Messages
- 402
umm but even if you buffer it you can't get it out any faster than the turnaround requires. I'd love to know how many frames it takes just to turn around.
does anyone have data on that?
I swear I've asked this question 8 million times but no one ever answers me.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Mirachael
Smash Rookie
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
Your pet zombie hamster is loose on Deviant art lol.
Alus
Smash Champion
Take that ugly *** **** out of my beautiful thread!
Timbers
check me out
not sure on frame specifics, but the whole idea of buffering it is that your joystick can be in it's desired position to execute the move before the actual turn around, rather than turning around and THEN having the joystick in ready position.
Utilt initial hit is 5 frames, whereas the late hit (in front of him) is something like 13 frames (don't quote me on that)
There is no where close to 8 frames of turn around lag.
RT
Smash Hero
Buffering allows you to input a move so that it comes out as soon as possible while you are performing another move. So, if you want to roll and then utilt, you can input the command for utilt during before the end of the roll and have come it out ASAP. Therefore, you can buffer a turnaround utilt and not have to experience any turn around lag.
Heck, you can do it with utilt->utilt. Do an utilt, then do another utilt in the opposite direction and the second utilt should come out with no visible turnaround lag.
This reason is why so many people hate the game.
Heck, you can do it with utilt->utilt. Do an utilt, then do another utilt in the opposite direction and the second utilt should come out with no visible turnaround lag.
This reason is why so many people hate the game.
ckm
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
- Messages
- 402
I would be very surprised if this really did rely on buffering to perform--to my knowledge, buffering doesnt allow you to do anything you couldn't do otherwise, it just eliminates the need for frame-perfect timing. It sounds like (from the descriptions of the technique--i havent tested this yet) there there is literally no turnaround animation when reversing the uptilt, much like when reversing a ftilt or a b-move (forcepalm, for example).
I know this has come up before--when we were discussing turn around grabs (if I land behind someone in shield, then turn around and grab him) and I thought someone said it takes frames to turn around in addition to the landing lag/startup frames on the grab.
I just assumed this was the same case. If that isn't the case, that's really cool... but it shouldnt actually have anything to do with buffering.
I know this has come up before--when we were discussing turn around grabs (if I land behind someone in shield, then turn around and grab him) and I thought someone said it takes frames to turn around in addition to the landing lag/startup frames on the grab.
I just assumed this was the same case. If that isn't the case, that's really cool... but it shouldnt actually have anything to do with buffering.
Browny
Smash Hater
utilt is amazing.
IMO one of the best. the lingering hitbox can hit people who try to grab you even after his foot has swung around to the other side. Also applies to non-disjointed aerials.
everyone needs to utilt moar.
IMO one of the best. the lingering hitbox can hit people who try to grab you even after his foot has swung around to the other side. Also applies to non-disjointed aerials.
everyone needs to utilt moar.
Ilucamy
Smash Journeyman
Combos out of dash attack and strings nicely into nair.
Nice kill move on light characters (MK) at high percentages.
Sets up grab.
One of like 2 decent moves OoS >.>
Really, isn't all this stuff about U-tilt common knowledge?
Basically: it's fast, it's good against characters that prefer the air, and you can reverse it. >_> We already know that....
Nice kill move on light characters (MK) at high percentages.
Sets up grab.
One of like 2 decent moves OoS >.>
Really, isn't all this stuff about U-tilt common knowledge?
Basically: it's fast, it's good against characters that prefer the air, and you can reverse it. >_> We already know that....
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
It also can string out of uthrow on a lot of characters, usually setting up better juggle traps and more damage than with uthrow alone.
Ilucamy
Smash Journeyman
See, I didn't post that because I thought it was even more obvious >_>
I feel like you guys are just going over stuff that we already know. It's not really moving us forward in any way.
Why not try to analyze the grab game instead. It often goes underused because of luc's stubby arms.
I feel like you guys are just going over stuff that we already know. It's not really moving us forward in any way.
Why not try to analyze the grab game instead. It often goes underused because of luc's stubby arms.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
All I can say is that Lucario has a deceptively good pivot grab. Proof?
Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca2Izt_a0pU#t=5m55s
That's like almost melee marth range lolol.
Here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca2Izt_a0pU#t=5m55s
That's like almost melee marth range lolol.
Ilucamy
Smash Journeyman
Wait, how do you send links of a specific time? I've always wanted to do that XD
I know we all wish the pivot grab range was that big, but Wolf F-smashed
I know we all wish the pivot grab range was that big, but Wolf F-smashed
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Oh, lol, that would make sense, although there's also one I think where Olimar gets grabbed pretty far away as well. Still, imo it brings his range up a bit more.
Anywho, the way to do it is that if you notice on the end of the link, the "#t=__m__s" is how you determine where it starts, where m = minutes and s = seconds.
Anywho, the way to do it is that if you notice on the end of the link, the "#t=__m__s" is how you determine where it starts, where m = minutes and s = seconds.
manhunter098
Smash Lord
Look at the end of the link and the world will make sense again.
That said I am not really sure that you can grasp the true size of the hitbox of the pivot grab from a youtube video (the real range seems to be hidden in the change in frame rate), but its certainly MUCH larger than our normal grab range.
That said I am not really sure that you can grasp the true size of the hitbox of the pivot grab from a youtube video (the real range seems to be hidden in the change in frame rate), but its certainly MUCH larger than our normal grab range.
Ilucamy
Smash Journeyman
Honestly, I don't understand how to apply pivot grabbing to my game. It just... doesn't make sense to me :/
And I knew the m/s part, but I didn't get the #t= I thought it was a part of the video ID lol
And I knew the m/s part, but I didn't get the #t= I thought it was a part of the video ID lol
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Naw, it stands for time.
You usually use it in crossing up, punishing spotdodge, and if you've gotten fancy, punishing and even a pseudo ooS option o.O
The last use is trivial, but essentially any character that gets the slide that marth or lucario does generally has a decent pivot grab.
You usually use it in crossing up, punishing spotdodge, and if you've gotten fancy, punishing and even a pseudo ooS option o.O
The last use is trivial, but essentially any character that gets the slide that marth or lucario does generally has a decent pivot grab.
tedward2000
Smash Champion
Wasn't kinda well known a while ago that Lucario's pivot grab was longer. I remember making a video about it too.
Working in a pivot grab into a playstyle shouldn't be to hard. Consider it like an AT, you have to practice it and soon enough it just becomes a solid chunk of how you play cario.
-t2
Working in a pivot grab into a playstyle shouldn't be to hard. Consider it like an AT, you have to practice it and soon enough it just becomes a solid chunk of how you play cario.
-t2
Loota
Smash Journeyman
God it feels good to run through your opponent, pivot grab and bthrow at high percents. It so **** satisfying <3