Lucas' Weekly Matchup Discussion Review - Diddy

[clowsui]

vids of this matchup are likely to be visible to ppl who are willing to record for tyr and i
snow day will probably occur tomorrow where we live so we will be playing and sending replays out

 

[Voyeur]

60:40 Sheik seems good to me. 65:35 seems possible, but his aerials CAN keep her out with proper spacing.

the 35:65 factor comes in when some one uses StZ (Sheik then Zelda) which isn't unheard of, of course and is more then likely when facing more tournament oriented Sheik mains =3

 

[Zankoku]

60:30 Sheik's favor, the other 10 goes to venue.

 

[Chuee]

poop, we lose another matchup

 

[Blackbelt]

I may just have to go to the next matchup tomorrow.


The Sheiks made this too easy.



Anyway, discussing the StZ score, and make suggestions for the next discussion.


Until than, see you tomorrow.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

we have to do mario eventually =[

 

[heytallman]

*cough* somebody do Mario *cough*

we have to do mario eventually =[

Let's do Mario next, for the sake of those playing in low tier tourneys using Lucas. I've been to one (couldn't enter, unfortunately, but would have probably made some money), and saw that MANY people were using Mario. Sadly, no Lucas' entered that low tier tourney lol. And since it seems like we've done all the other low tier characters, why not do Mario to finish it out?

I don't know too much about the matchup, but I would guess it's slightly in Mario's advantage. Fireballs can make for an easy recovery if you can see them coming, but Mario can gimp us with FLUDD. I think it would be a great character to discuss next.

 

[Brinzy]

vids of this matchup are likely to be visible to ppl who are willing to record for tyr and i
snow day will probably occur tomorrow where we live so we will be playing and sending replays out

Wait, there are snow days in Ohio? >_> College starts up next week, but I'm going back tomorrow... great. -_-

the 35:65 factor comes in when some one uses StZ (Sheik then Zelda) which isn't unheard of, of course and is more then likely when facing more tournament oriented Sheik mains =3

Oh, I definitely agree there.

 

[Flamingo]

PK fire is one of the few projectiles that actually blocks needles. The needles hit the fire and die. We still have a better matchup though. I personally think it's 60-40, in our favor. What you have against us: Your nair and disjointed tilts allow decent spacing, and the Nair approach eats our shields. but nonetheless, we have the advantage. What we have against you: A decent ftilt lock and combos out of it. Chain option is decent, your startup lag of PK fire allows us to retract it before being hit. We can gimp ya kinda good. And we have speed (Which I think is the most disadvantageous to you in my opinion.)

PS. PK fire/thundah is plain douchebaggery

Edit: Lolz I appear to be a little late in my post, my bad Lucases.

 

[stealth3654]

Sheik has grab release into DACUS

=)

 

[FireKirby7]

Sheik has grab release into DACUS

=)

Is it guarenteed at high percents? D:

 

[Neon Ness]

We can gimp ya kinda good.

No. You really can't.

But I find it admirable when people try to gimp Ryuka.

 

[FireKirby7]

Lucas can be gimped?

 

[Tyr_03]

It's probably about even. Not that this matchup ever happens anyway.

If Clowsui and I record vids you can watch me **** his sheik.

 

[Brinzy]

About even? Yeah I guess it could be if Lucas can play it really gay... it could be. I'm reading "about even" as "55:45 Sheik", but I still say 60:40.

 

[ToxiCrow]

The Mario matchup seems to be a touchy subject here...

we have to do mario eventually =[

think we're all a little more mature about it now...i think we can do it

regarding the sheik matchup: i've only played one sheik and i used zelda.
and i look forward to seeing tyr **** some sheiks for us

 

[Neon Ness]

About even? Yeah I guess it could be if Lucas can play it really gay, it can be. I'm reading "about even" as "55:45 Sheik", but I still say 60:40.

I concur.

I blame the difficulty of this matchup entirely on Raph. ):< Crazy good Zelda...

 

[Levitas]

It's 60-40. I was playing against ankoku's sheik a bunch last night.

He got almost no gimps, btw.

 

[Brinzy]

I concur.

I blame the difficulty of this matchup entirely on Raph. ):< Crazy good Zelda...

My only good character.

My Sheik is so new. Makes everyone look 70:30 on her <_<

 

[Levitas]

That's how my lucas looks

 

[S.D]

Lucas > Sheik.

PKT1 ***** tether recovery, tilts and stuff are good too i don't really know why Lucas wins but I never have problems with Sheik so that's how i came to this conclusion.

 

[Levitas]

PKT1 is WAAAAAY too slow to edgeguard sheik's chain recovery. Do your opponents wait to get to the edge until after you say "OK, now!" or something?

 

[Zankoku]

PKT1 has yet to come close to doing anything even hinting at "****** her recovery" against me.

 

[heytallman]

<sarcasm post> LOL TEH MATCHUP IS IN LUCAS' FAVOR CUZ IF SHIEK USES DAIR HE CAN UPSMASH IT AND WIN</sarcasm post>

I've only played one Sheik pretty much, and it knocked me out of the tournament

Kinda seems like everyone pretty much agrees on 60:40 Sheik....think we can call this one quits?

 

[ToxiCrow]

60:40 sounds good to me.
PKT ***** sheik??no. not even close.

 

[ZMan]

I've only foughten one Sheik (Choneyz back at the NVGA) and he almost put me in losers (but he killed himself at zero lolz) but needle capming is annoying. After that it's straight forward. 45-55 Sheik's favour

 

[Irsic]

Sheik is a bit of a tough matchup, but definitely not unbeatable by any means. I wouldn't go further than 60:40, as Sheik can have a pretty difficult time trying to kill.

And to the people who actually think switching to Zelda makes this match easier, you're very wrong. <_<

 

[Kataefi]

We're very wrong...... because..... ?? =?

Spoiler

10reasons(plz) xD

Switching between the two is situational but at times very practical. Lucas not being the heaviest of characters, and fresh killer Zelda in the mix, it may be significantly disadvantageous to you - considering you go roughly neutral with her. But sometimes it may just be easier to remain Sheik if all is going according to their plan.

 

[Zankoku]

Zelda is still useful as a pinch killer. When you'll be sent off-stage with a throw, an aerial, a projectile, and potentially a jab, and KO'd immediately with two tilts, three smashes, and two aerials, the fact that it's an "even" matchup doesn't exactly help you that much. It just means that Zelda can't just rush in and land a hit automatically, which she never should anyway.

 

[ZMan]

Zelda's kill moves are telegraphed in advance (minus dsmash, but zap jump beats that) to be to scary.

 

[Zankoku]

Zelda's KO moves are stronger as responses than approaches, so how "telegraphed" they may be shouldn't play a huge factor in this.

 

[Tyr_03]

Basically if they turn into Zelda just back off and force her to approach. We can absorb Din's Fire and her smashes aren't going to hit you unless you make a mistake. So just start playing more defensively and you'll make it difficult for her and probably make her take some additional damage.

 

[Kataefi]

It's true they're telegraphed, but she can now potentially read you like a book by knowing you know they're telegraphed, and has opportunities to bait from here.

I'm confused, it's hard to explain. Here's my example - her uair. You know it's coming. Only she knows when it's coming. She can bait you into airdodging and then do it after to guarantee hitting you. Same with quite a lot of her kill moves.

Be aware, if Sheik uses Zelda for the kill, it'll be at percents where Zelda's dtilt will pop you up, which sets up for many kill moves very easily, including a guaranteed Utilt or USmash.

EDIT:: Tyr 03 is somewhat right. But it will get harder if Zelda is outspacing him, considering she can reach him with reach he cannot hit her with other than PKFire, which is dangerously reflective at this range.

 

[Brinzy]

Lucas can't reliably punish Zelda's Fsmash unless she completely whiffs it. It's safe on block. His fair beats our aerials, but that's unsafe for him. The rest of his aerials get overridden by Zelda's attacks, be it lightning kicking his nair or through his bair or simply being in the rare position of having uair hit him out of dair. Sheik should go Zelda when Fsmash can kill, because then this means that everything else (except for ftilt depending on DI) will kill in addition to having one of her safest moves kill.

He'll have to play defensively, which has already been said. Then again, if Sheik/Zelda have a lead on Lucas (which is entirely possible considering Sheik's advantage on Lucas + her damage building ability), they shouldn't be hard pressed to approach. Sheik alone can deal with Lucas with that aspect because Needles do a better job at forcing an approach than any other projectile in this fight, but if Zelda wants to just sit back and chill when she has the lead, she can do that. PKF won't bring her to Lucas anyway because it's about as spammy as Nayru's Love, which pretty much negates it (along with powershielding).

Lucas suffers from similar afflictions as Zelda when it comes to approaching, and we know how tight her defensive game is. If Sheik/Zelda is losing, I'd say stay Sheik unless you're *really* looking for that kill.

 

[Levitas]

Lucas might be able to grab after zelda's fsmash like he can against MK's dsmash, even w/o a powershield.

 

[S.D]

PKT1 is WAAAAAY too slow to edgeguard sheik's chain recovery. Do your opponents wait to get to the edge until after you say "OK, now!" or something?

Yes. I thought everyone did that?

I just use my powers of prediction. If they're constantly relying on tether recovery you can cut it off. It's probably not the best or most reliable edgeguard but it can be used situationally imo.

FH Dair seems to work nicely vs Zelda on topic.

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

(Unrelated to discussion)

I had a bit of free time on my hands, so I decided to put all of Lucas's Match-ups in a color-coded spectrum for easy reference. It might be helpful at the beginning of the thread if somebody wanted to pop in momentarily to see the lone match-up statistics.


70-30 CaptainFalcon
65-35 Jigglypuff
60-40 Ganondorf
60-40 Luigi
60-40 Fox
60-40 Bowser
60-40 Ike
55-45 Sonic
55-45 Samus
55-45 King Dedede
55-45 Charizard
55-45 Zero Suit Samus
50-50 Zelda
50-50 Wario
50-50 Ice Climbers
50-50 Pokemon Trainer (In Total)
50-50 Ivysaur
50-50 Pikachu
50-50 Link
50-50 Falco
45-55 Kirby
45-55 Diddy Kong
45-55 Squirtle
45-55 Pit
40-60 Yoshi
40-60 ROB
40-60 Peach
40-60 Lucario
40-60 Toon Link
40-60 Snake
40-60 Wolf
40-60 Ness
35-65 Metaknight
30-70 Marth
25-75 Donkey Kong
20-80 Mr. Game & Watch
??? Olimar

 

[Levitas]

olimar's a really funny matchup.

I'd say 50-50, because it's hilarious that the matchup is mostly determined by who can edgeguard the other's tether recovery better.

 

[ToxiCrow]

(Unrelated to discussion)

I had a bit of free time on my hands, so I decided to put all of Lucas's Match-ups in a color-coded spectrum for easy reference. It might be helpful at the beginning of the thread if somebody wanted to pop in momentarily to see the lone match-up statistics.


70-30 CaptainFalcon
65-35 Jigglypuff
60-40 Ganondorf
60-40 Luigi
60-40 Fox
60-40 Bowser
60-40 Ike
55-45 Sonic
55-45 Samus
55-45 King Dedede
55-45 Charizard
55-45 Zero Suit Samus
50-50 Zelda
50-50 Wario
50-50 Ice Climbers
50-50 Pokemon Trainer (In Total)
50-50 Ivysaur
50-50 Pikachu
50-50 Link
50-50 Falco
45-55 Kirby
45-55 Diddy Kong
45-55 Squirtle
45-55 Pit
40-60 Yoshi
40-60 ROB
40-60 Peach
40-60 Lucario
40-60 Toon Link
40-60 Snake
40-60 Wolf
40-60 Ness
35-65 Metaknight
30-70 Marth
25-75 Donkey Kong
20-80 Mr. Game & Watch
??? Olimar

thank you sir
i'm really glad someone took the time to do this
thanks again.

 

[Blackbelt]

OK, I'll put the colorcoded thing at the first post.



And now let's start talking about Mario.


Is there anyone else to discuss after that?