Mafia Tournament Sleepover! Game Over! SK wins the game! (ITS LEGIT THIS TIME! LOL)

[Steel]

also ive done some rereading. mentos's point of dekuu specifically saying janitor when that was not the general focus certainly seems like a considerable slip.
i also think he COULD be the SK. he posted this immediately after gheb's death perhaps in order to frame the "bros" :

FoS the Bros (KevinM, Scumfever, KK).

Dropped the Gheb wagon, joined the Cacti wagon. They night-killed Gheb and we lynched Cacti (stupid decision on our part, after all -_-).

KevinM totally tried to trick the host

i don't feel comfortable enough to place a vote yet, however. chibo can you try to find anything in particular? intuition can't really get us anywhere

 

[mentosman8]

Hm, Chibo, while I do see where you're coming from, almost all of the points you made in that post can relate to me as well. I both defended against the lynch of Tom due to his inactivity being for legit reasons, and told you that you should definitely shoot that night. I'd just like to know your thoughts on that(and hear from Dekuu, but god only knows there)

 

[Rockin]

With 6 players, it takes 4 to lynch

Dekuu (1) - Mentosman

Not Voting: Frozen Flame, Dekuu, Chibo, Steel, Nix

Deadline is Jan. 5th, 2010

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

@ Mentos, last night I visited yet another corpse. I chose Marshy, and reasons should be obvious. He was the only claimed player who wasn't night immune. I thought he'd be a surefire mafia target not only because of that, but the fact that he claimed to be a tracker. That's a killing capable anti-town player's worst nightmare. Good thing I checked him too because yeah, I was right. Our non-mafia killer around here took him out.

Marshy didn't have my dagger though.

Your case on Dekuu makes a lot of sense. That is a pretty explicit slip. It was highly contested whether or not we had an abductor or a janitor at that point in time, and to mentioned a "janing" at that point just screams freudian slip at me. That's such an easy mistake to make when you have subconscious knowledge of the situation.

That combined with the coasting for most of yesterday makes me pretty confident that he's the play. I'll need to go back and look some more though. Lynching someone just based on that stuff shouldn't fly this late in the game.

 

[Morrigan]

Wow...
Firstly I wanna say that I've been quiet because of limited access (said so in the V/LA thread).
Now that I found a wifi spot I'm able to post...I wanna say that your freudian slip theory is just that...a theory. If you read closely I've been referring to (at that time unknown) Marshy's role as janitor and abductor throughout the game, not knowing what the role was was the reason for that.
Look back to all my posts, I've never defended Marshy. Hell, I've always been accusing him of his weird hammers/wagons on everyone. All I've been trying to do throughout the game was scumhunt, sure, it might not have been the best scumhunting you've ever saw, but still

Being V/LA and not being able to post/defend myself 24/7 I'm considering to claim as my only defense. Really people, look back at all my posts and see if there's any connection to anyone, or if I've been trying to defend someone specifically (the dead mafia, for instance) or someone who was under the loop.

 

[mentosman8]

Dekuu: Part of what I said, in case you missed it, is while everyone else commented on the Marshy situation(some multiple times) in your posts during that time you almost completely ignored him. A non-existent connection is just another type of connection, and it certainly fits your bill fine.

 

[Steel]

Wow...
Firstly I wanna say that I've been quiet because of limited access (said so in the V/LA thread).
Now that I found a wifi spot I'm able to post...I wanna say that your freudian slip theory is just that...a theory. If you read closely I've been referring to (at that time unknown) Marshy's role as janitor and abductor throughout the game, not knowing what the role was was the reason for that.
Look back to all my posts, I've never defended Marshy. Hell, I've always been accusing him of his weird hammers/wagons on everyone. All I've been trying to do throughout the game was scumhunt, sure, it might not have been the best scumhunting you've ever saw, but still

Being V/LA and not being able to post/defend myself 24/7 I'm considering to claim as my only defense. Really people, look back at all my posts and see if there's any connection to anyone, or if I've been trying to defend someone specifically (the dead mafia, for instance) or someone who was under the loop.

you have no connections to anyone yet you're still alive, that in itself waves red flags.

 

[CT Chia]

I wanna hear more from Nix. I get your last post, but elaborate. Who do you think the play of the day should be? You've commented on your nominee for SK but what about remaining scum?

 

[Nix2100]

Vote: Marshy

You've been desperately wanting to wagon on everything that turned out to be town since practically the beginning of the game. I don't know if KK was joking about his read on Marshy, he probably read a townie or something and said he knew about Marshy just to defend himself, but he was a cop after all (still, it was his fault for being absent and not trying to convince anyone about his reads).

That and I've been receiving bad vibes from you for a long time.

Also, FoS Meno. He may be using his quiet gameplay (that for some reason everyone seems "ok" with it) to his advantage.

Unvote

Vote: MenoUnderwater , Hello?

We still have time, until Menounderwater or Frozenflame don't show up saying something I won't change my vote.

Marshy, besides your obvious scum reads on FF, what do you think of Meno?

In one day, Dekuu went from being dead set on Marshy for various reasons, to just accepting his claim with no issues and taking his opinion on matters...I find it slightly suspicious. Makes me wonder if he more Scum then SK.

I also still have suspicion of FF, though if he is 100% cleared and I somehow missed that then let me know. His name claim just, to me anyway, doesn't fit with his role claim, and the last time that that happened, they were scum. I also find it weird that he is more or less un-killable at night, but the fact that he is allowed to NOT go searching for his dagger, makes him seem a bit un-killable at night, add that with the PGO we have....it just seems like a weird combination and with the fact that you seem to have a habit of visiting the same people that died (and that you admitted it makes me see you as a overconfident player who doesn't think they can get lynched.....), None of it sits well with me at all.

As for Steel and Mentos...I'm not sure, Chibo raised some good points, but then Mentos pretty much made those points useless...and Mento's is very good at that, as he has been defusing most of the arguments against people lately....so I really don't know...

 

[CT Chia]

My night 2 result flavor practically confirms FF's claim (can't say for 100% certainty as it's flavor but I believe it and it makes perfect sense). I also don't find the whole double un nightkillable townie thing unbalanced really considering the mafia has a janitor (which is a HUGE plus for the mafia) and not to mention a roleblocker, and theres an SK out there. Also its almost extremely unlikely that the town had a vigilante at all to help counter these things (since there were no additional kills iirc) and the mafia wouldnt have believed my vig claim if they had already swept up a vig.

We're down to 6 people left, myself FF dekuu nix steel mentos.

Outside of myself and FF I feel the most confident in mentos for being a gg.

Reading back on some of the Dekuu stuff Nix brought up it doesn't really make Dekuu scummy at all, or else just a horrible scum player and he's kind of awful at persuading people to getting mislynches and even backed out of most lynches himself and didn't jump on wagons at crucial times. I don't see how Dekuu is scum.

I also just re-read yesterday, and wow Steel just screams scum. I've made up my mind, Steel is definitely the play for today. Everyone vote with me, and in the extremely rare chance that Steel doesn't flip scum, then he's just one of the worst townie players I've ever seen

We don't need this day anymore, time to end it.
We've heard from everyone and safe to say that everyone can somewhat agree on some of the key points (who has been inactive, what people have said in the past, and looking at connections)

Vote Steel

 

[Nix2100]

I don't trust basing whether someone is clear or not on flavor, and just because it made sense, doesn't mean they are clear either (Take Marshy for example)....and do tell how having a janitor/roleblocker (the basic mafia roles) makes it balanced for town to have 2 unkillables? SK has no involvement as he is a independent variable, neither mafia nor town.

I can totally see Dekuu as being mafia, It would make sense for them to have a back-up plan, someone there "just in case" their plans backfire and with the way Dekuu has been playing, I can totally see that as him.

And I would really appreciate it if you can elaborate on what parts steel seemed scummy instead of just saying "Do as I say because I say so", If you don't mind.....

 

[CT Chia]

I mean I'm not saying it's balanced per se, but I'm saying it's not really reasonable to say that having the 2 bulletproof townies is impossible since the town has to miss out on their own solid killing role and theres a indep SK and the mafia had a janitor.

As for Steel re-read this day as I've already laid out almost all of my case on him already. For even further info as to what I just alluded to, just re read the second half of day 4 when people were deciding who to lynch. steel was very keen on getting Meno out calling him scum and what not who flipped townie, not to mention voting with Marshy on that and what not (and I personally never saw a solid case on Meno)

If you can find a scummier player than Steel then please enlighten me

 

[Nix2100]

Who's to say we didn't have a Vig though? with the janitor multiple people died without knowing what their roles are, its totally plausible that one of them was the town Vig....and hasn't Mentos already debunked most of your arguments? You've already said Mentos was a gg, so shouldn't his postings be taken into consideration? Cause I'll be honest, i'm more inclined to listen to Mentos' logic over your postings.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Nix, I really don't understand where you're coming from pertaining to the legitimacy of my claim. What do you mean the name claim doesn't fit the role claim? I fail to see how any of the details I've provided you guys doesn't match Millia to the dots on the i's.

I really don't think Chibo's role and my role together are as imbalanced as people are making it out to be. We both are PARTIALLY un-nightkillable. If Chibo doesn't turn his guns on, he's vulnerable. He could have easily died night 1. If I find my dagger, I become vulnerable. We aren't completely bulletproof, and Chibo ran then risk of killing off fellow townies in the early game. Fortunately, when I was the lucky townie to target him since I was able to live through it.

As for my admission to visiting corpses, I don't know why you find that scummy. If anything, that should show you that I'm telling you nothing but the absolute truth as to what I'm doing at night, no matter how good it looks. Furthermore, the people who I've been visiting at night are all consistent with my ideal strategy to maximize my chances of getting the kill ability for the endgame where we might need it.

Concerning Steel, I'm not really sure I wanna go with him over Dekuu. I really need to give them both a better look though.

 

[CT Chia]

Ok, I just wrote a huge post completely analyzing the game and I'm pretty sure I've nailed down all of the remaining roles left in the game. It's quite the post, though I'm not going to post it right now so the scum dont catch on.

The current situation is good right now, we have 6 players left, 2 of which have already claimed. It might be smart at this point to do a popcorn claim, or if people don't want to - then there is specifically one role I wish to know about that I believe exists but hasn't been claimed yet.

If I am indeed correct and this role exists, then the town will have a guaranteed win for the game.

So either...

1. Popcorn claim
or
2. Have all town power roles claim

They are just about the same thing however...

I just don't want to say the role that I'm looking for so one of the scum could fake claim it.

 

[mentosman8]

I will say Chibo's right that FF is almost confirmed town. I redid my numbers and interpretation of what's happened, and it is almost entirely impossible for FF to not be town when Chibo's confirmation of his N2 visit is taken into account. I'm kind of angry that I missed that fact my first time looking things over>_>

Regardless, I do agree that one of Steel/Dekuu is scum, if not both(I'm using scum to refer to all anti-town right now btw). I'm fine with either lynch, so I think I'll listen to mister Chibtown and Unvote Vote Steel

 

[mentosman8]

Also, in response to Chibo-ninja, I'm fine with a claim, as I mentioned earlier it is nigh-impossible for it to harm us.

 

[CT Chia]

Yea, there is one specific town power role that I think exists in the game that hasn't been claimed yet, so if you're a town power role that hasn't claimed yet lol... knowledge of your existence can 100% guarantee us a win

 

[CT Chia]

I hope I'm not wrong... but I really can't see how I am tbh

even as mentos said though, were in such a good position as it is, and that Steel is the play today anyway

 

[Steel]

-__-

chibo your case on me was trash and i and mentos explained why. concerning meno, how am i scum for starting his bandwagon? he was a scummy player and i thought he was a solid choice for the day. i also didnt vote with marshy, it seemed like he just followed the wagon once it looked like meno would be the easiest lynch. mentos i don't know why you chose to follow chibo and i strongly urge you to read back on things if you dont want to end up in what i think would be a lylo/mylo situation.

im maori kasuga from arcana hearts and i was a one-shot mason recruiter. apparently iggy/tom used it on mcfox on N1 and was role blocked.

 

[CT Chia]

interesting claim by steel. not the one I was looking for but it still fits into my plan, infact better if anything...

6 ppl, 3 roleclaims.

might as well finish it off then.

I want to see dekuu claim next

 

[CT Chia]

o yea... unvote

 

[mentosman8]

Hm, not sure if I believe Steel's claim like Chibo seems to. Always wary of one-shot claims, especially a one-shot mason recruiter that can't recruit if roleblocked? Most one-shot roles do not lose their power if role-blocked I believe. Entirely unverifiable. I'll wait to see Dekuu/Nix claims, but personally I could easily see it being a last-ditch claim, OR it could be the other janned role that never got used. Like I said I want to see the others, but this is as convenient a claim as Frozen's without the backup from the town clear.

Unvote till I see what Dekuu/Nix have to say.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Yeah, the janitor throws a big fat wrench into the claiming process but we definitely need to wait till Dekuu and Nix speak up before we make a decision.

 

[CT Chia]

Arg, I completely forgot about the remaining scum player being able to fake claim from the Janitor, good lookin out Mentos. Thankfully though my plan still gives us a guaranteed win if we mislynch today lol.

 

[Nix2100]

Claim Time I suppose!

Name is Baiken from Guilty Gear, and I be a Multi-Tasking Doctor!

 

[Steel]

you're a doctor and you didn't protect the practically confirmed tracker?

i find that hard to believe.

 

[Morrigan]

Dekuu: Part of what I said, in case you missed it, is while everyone else commented on the Marshy situation(some multiple times) in your posts during that time you almost completely ignored him. A non-existent connection is just another type of connection, and it certainly fits your bill fine.

I understand. And I did not ignore the situation, in fact, in my book, he was always kind of suspicious with his sudden hammers and wagoning since the beginning of the game (I called him out for that), I just couldn't set up an explanation before a different situation was brought up. To everyone calling me out for being scum, gotta say you're wrong. Do not let my inactivity at times fool you. I'm Cammy, a vanilla townie.
I suppose I expect the mafia to kill me toNight, but with the Doctor coming out, I don't know.

 

[CT Chia]

Two very important questions:

1. Nix what does the "multi tasking" part mean.

2. Who did you protect night 3?

Dekuu and Mentos claim please, this is very important at this point. Doesn't necessarily matter who first after Nix's claim.

 

[CT Chia]

Also, I want everyone's input on this conundrum, it's a very very confusion subject, but I think I know the answer. And yes, I already talked to Rockin about it but never got a straight answer.

Mafia has a Janitor.
Janitor hides the mafia's kills.
In a single given night, the Janitor is killed by a SK or Vig. In that same night is the mafia's kill hidden or not?
Assume there were no other roles involved. Just the mafia killer, the mafia janitor, the mafia's target, and the not mafia killing role.

 

[Nix2100]

Two very important questions:

1. Nix what does the "multi tasking" part mean.

2. Who did you protect night 3?

Dekuu and Mentos claim please, this is very important at this point. Doesn't necessarily matter who first after Nix's claim.

Wow Chibo......I'm seriously hoping you missed Dekuu's post, as he claimed a simple town villager.

Multi-tasking is just that, I can do different things, in this case I can either be a Doc, or a BG.

Unlike other docs, I'm also allowed to doc myself, unfortunately, when I do so, I am unable to take any actions the next night (Unlike some roles, I actually have a side-effect to being unkillable for a night >_>). So yea, I totally protected myself.

As for your question....I think it depends on the mod doesn't it? Unless they all use the same kill order, I "think" in most cases scum take their actions first before anyone else, but I could be mistaken, Someone else can probably clarify it.

 

[CT Chia]

Whoops, I missed that last part in Dekuu's post lol. I normally re read a page after every few posts. I was more caught up in talking about your claim Nix.

Ok so you doctored yourself in Night 3...
So you Doc'd yourself N1 I assume, then Doc'd yourself N3

now your side effect... you can't do anything at all the next night right? including a power that's not protecting?

And sorry for asking but what's a BG?
List all of your multi task abilities.

Once Mentos claims I believe I'll have everything pieced together.

 

[Nix2100]

Once i doc myself, I am unable to use ANY abilities the next night.

BG is bodyguard, the only difference between that and the Doc, is that the BG has a 50/50 chance of either dying instead of the target, or killing the person that attempts to kill your target.

And my abilities are just Doc and BG.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Also, I want everyone's input on this conundrum, it's a very very confusion subject, but I think I know the answer. And yes, I already talked to Rockin about it but never got a straight answer.

Mafia has a Janitor.
Janitor hides the mafia's kills.
In a single given night, the Janitor is killed by a SK or Vig. In that same night is the mafia's kill hidden or not?
Assume there were no other roles involved. Just the mafia killer, the mafia janitor, the mafia's target, and the not mafia killing role.

That seems like a decision that would be entirely up to the mod's discretion. As far as I know, there is no "priority tier list" for what kills go through first. I don't think there's a better answer other than it's the mods call.

I could see it being reasoned out where the mafia gets to kill first, and thus, the janitor would get his ability through, but I can just as easily see it being ruled as the mafia picked the Janitor to do the kill, the Janitor dies, and therefore, the mafia gets no kill at all.

Those seem like to two most logical rulings, but of course, there's no guarantee Rockin interprets the situation in any similar manner to me.

But yeah, Nix's claim is giving me super red flags if all he has done is allegedly protect himself. What made you think you would be targeted N3? Claiming two self protects just sounds like an easy way to cop out of having to explain night choices. =/

 

[Nix2100]

But yeah, Nix's claim is giving me super red flags if all he has done is allegedly protect himself. What made you think you would be targeted N3? Claiming two self protects just sounds like an easy way to cop out of having to explain night choices. =/

What makes Chibo think he was gonna be targeted every night that he had to turn on his guns? Its called self-preservation, the same reason why those that are psych's in EM, choose to protect themselves then a random person that may or may not be mafia to begin with.

 

[CT Chia]

I didn't turn on my guns night 1 so I wouldn't kill anyone unintentionally. I turned them on N2 because of the trap I set for the scum which worked. I've on'd my guns everyday since then I was claimed and people knew it so I didn't want scum to try and kill me.

However nix's claim might be just what I was looking for...

It all depends on Mentos' claim

 

[mentosman8]

I am Jam Kuradoberi, just a nilla townie. Dekuu, did your role pm state that you were a vanilla townie specifically?

 

[Nix2100]

Chibo, you took a risk, as your trap was only set after you were put at -1, so you claimed as a one-shot vig, If you didn't have to claim, what were you going to do? keep your guns off? at the risk of getting killed by mafia?

 

[CT Chia]

Why are we bringing up my claim from D2?

Ok, so we have...

Chibo - Paranoid Gun Owner
FrozenFlame - Weird One Shot Vig Thing
Mentosman - Vanilla Townie
Dekuu - Vanilla Townie
Steel - One shot Mason Recruiter
Nix - Multi-Task Doctor

Ok, lemme go get the post I wrote up before. Remember, this was written before everyone roleclaimed.

 

[CT Chia]

This was written before we roleclaimed, it has been slightly modifed after clearing up the whole what goes first at night with Rockin

----

Ok time to analyze this mess:

NIGHT 1

Townie (Gheb) killed
Someone (Macman) missing

NIGHT 2

Townie (McFox) killed
Someone (Bunbun) missing
Scum (Ronike) killed

NIGHT 3

Townie (KevinM) killed

NIGHT 4

Townie (scumfever) killed
Scum (Marshy) killed

----

Ok, lets take what we know and apply it to the situation

We know that the missing kills were from the Janitor. This means that every missing player was either town or independant because the mafia was doing the killing.

We know that scum had killed a Tracker as this provided the safe claim for Marshy. There are no indy trackers so it was a town tracker. Either Macman or Bunbun was a Town Trakcer.

I have never seen a game with both a one shot vig and a vig and it makes no sense really. The mafia believed my claim of a one shot vig and I was never CC'd. Since this claim took place on Day 2, Macman was not a Vig or a One Shot Vig.

There is two consistant night killers out there, the scum and someone else. Since these kills continued to take place after Night 2 then that means Bunbun was not a consistant night killer (Vig or SK)

There was no mafia kill on Night 3 as no one went missing (it would be missing since Marshy was still alive). For this to happen either Marshy or the other scum who sent in the kill had to have been roleblocked, or their target on N3 was protected by a Doctor.

I did not receive a night result PM on N4 meaning I did not kill either person on Night 4

The non-mafia killing role killed Marshy N4 since scum wouldn't kill themselves

Since a mafia kill still happened N4 that means there is guaranteed at least a 3rd scum person that sent in the kill on N4 which is why the kill still took place. Marshy didn't send in the mafia kill N4 because since his hiding power didn't happen from dying, his killing power wouldnt happen either.