Mario Discussion: OP is a bad person

[Tambor]

I usually agree with ballin, but I strongly disagree this time. I've never seen that.
Perhaps it seems impossible because the timing is quite different.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

It seems to me at least that there are some things that are possible on a character but impossible if you try to do them on no one.

I kind of get that feeling too.

 

[ballin4life]

Two aerials in one short hop with Fox is an example IIRC

or like Falcon's short hop double uair is much easier on an opponent. I think you can see visually that more of the hitbox comes out as well.

I can't test stuff out right now to tell you for sure though (didn't bring smash to England lol)

 

[The Star King]

Falcon's short hop double uair is easier because the hitlag gives you more time. And I highly doubt two aerials in one short hop is possible with Fox, unless it's on slanted ground or something.

I don't think hitlag makes things newly possible. The character doing the attack is "frozen" during the hitlag, so it doesn't change anything (think about Ness's PK Thunder 2, where he "freezes" for a moment when he hits somebody).

@Tambor I don't think double dair is possible with Mario. Maybe you're subconsciously thinking of Luigi?

 

[th3kuzinator]

I think mario sh double dair is possible with a sh from the control stick, but not the C-buttons.

Me and you got it rough star.

 

[Tambor]

or like Falcon's short hop double uair is much easier on an opponent. I think you can see visually that more of the hitbox comes out as well.

No. Here are two screenshots of two perfect uairs, taken at the last possible frame.

Hitting both uairs on an opponent:

Hitting nothing at all:

The only reason why it seems easier is because you have more time to react between attacks, making them easier to time.

Falcon's short hop double uair is easier because the hitlag gives you more time. And I highly doubt two aerials in one short hop is possible with Fox, unless it's on slanted ground or something.

I don't think hitlag makes things newly possible. The character doing the attack is "frozen" during the hitlag, so it doesn't change anything (think about Ness's PK Thunder 2, where he "freezes" for a moment when he hits somebody).

@Tambor I don't think double dair is possible with Mario. Maybe you're subconsciously thinking of Luigi?

I got confused, sorry. I did dair->dair once, but landed in between
Now that i checked, double dair is impossible with Mario. The second dair comes out, but doesn't hit. It produces landing lag when not Z-canceled.
Also, two aerials in one short hop is impossible with Fox, with and without hitlag.

 

[The Star King]

Yay, I was 3 for 3.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Tambor could you show me that 2nd Uair in the SH actually hitting something?

I've tried to do falcons 2x Uair in one SH but the second (even though it seems to deploy) wont connect.

 

[The Star King]

He did, in the first image.

 

[Surri-Sama]

duh...

I thought the first image was the first one for some reason

 

[The Star King]

Omg, just saw the hole in Falcon's shoe in Tambor's pics.

Can't unsee.

 

[ballin4life]

I suppose the difference is that hitlag counts as "buffer time" which lets you do frame perfect maneuvers more easily.

But things like mario's fair uair and falcon's double uair are much easier when you hit an oponent

 

[The Star King]

Not necessarily. I find falcon's double uair easier on no opponent. You're probably just used to the timing of hitting an opponent more, while I'm used to the timing on no opponent.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I also find it easier w/o an opponent.

 

[ciaza]

So we could agree it's subjective then, seeing as I find it easier to do on an opponent as well as ballin.

 

[th3kuzinator]

I see how it is.

2v2 up in this

 

[Sempiternity]

I suppose the difference is that hitlag counts as "buffer time" which lets you do frame perfect maneuvers more easily.

But things like mario's fair uair and falcon's double uair are much easier when you hit an oponent

QUESTION

We all know (if not, then we do now) that if you hold buttons before a match starts, the action will be executed the frame the match begins. At least, I think that's right; don't see why not.

So when you say "buffer", does that mean if you hold down a button during the hitlag, will the action come out immediately after the hitlag ends?

So, for doing the double Uair shorthop with Falcon, you hit A, release, and while the hitlag is lagging, press A again and hold it, will the next Uair come out automatically after the first is finished?


I guess we'll need Tambor to test this, but I've always found it interesting how if you hold buttons down at a match's beginning, you can do attacks as fast as possible. Pretty cool because if you hold a direction and A, you'll do a smash attack, instead of the expected tilt, which seems to imply that the game sees the buttons as being inputted immediately after the countdown ends, and not being held down. Perhaps the same applies to hitlag?

Oh! Didn't test this, but I'm pretty sure the same also applies to when you pause the game and unpause while holding down buttons. Could be wrong, but that seems to sound familiar.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

That sort of buffering system doesn't apply in this game. You're thinking of input buffering(lolbrawl) which doesn't exist in this game except when a match starts.

I still can't believe brawl has 10 frames of input buffering...that's way too much lol.

 

[ballin4life]

I've never noticed the beginning of match buffering but attacks definitely do not have significant buffering during other attacks. So if you input an uair during the first uair, it won't come out. This is the source of tons of tech skill mistakes.

 

[ciaza]

Beginning of match buffering comes in handy during 3p/4p's on PC where everyone spawns within grab range lol.

 

[Sangoku]

The beginning of match buffering made me discover smashes. I was playing Ness, trying to dtilt and a yoyo came out Oo. That was 9 years ago.
(inb4 "cool story bro").

And there's obviously no other buffering, I've tested many times and I when I input something too early during a TAS, it doesn't work.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

@Sempiternity if you play with a N64 Controller/Hiri-mini or whatever similar to it with a stick to play, you don't even need buffering, that's more for KB/PS controller players (Digital players in general for some term)
When I'm using a N64 Controller, I don't use buffer at all.

 

[Sempiternity]

That's not what I meant by buffering. I meant inputting an attack, not just a direction during hitlag.

I didn't think it would work, because I've never experienced that myself, but hey, it was a thought, and I had no idea Brawl had that sort of system! I just thought it may have been a possibility, but impractical to implement because hitlag lasts all of a couple frames.

And the pre-match input buffering is great on Peach's Castle where everybody starts right next to each other.

None of my friends know about it and get super ragey when I grab them at the beginning of a match while they're frantically mashing R and I'm calmly holding my controller.

If they did, I'd have to start jabbing. :/

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i have a question for you all:

what's better to do:

flash u-air kicking, or dair>uair?

personally, flash kicks are better.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

What do you mean by "flash u-air/kick"?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

sh ff uairing.

flash kicks.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Ok, well, that depends on the position the players are in that time, too high/low.

 

[Fynal]

if i land a full dair, say off a running sh, and i know that i'm too low to the ground to get the uair before landing, what should i try? i used to always utilt, which worked out badly most of the time, recently i'v been trying to use some dtilt, which works hardly any better...

any ideas?

 

[ballin4life]

how about grab?

 

[ciaza]

Don't use attacks like utilt and dtilt that have high ending lag. If your opponent shields before the attack your stuffed lol.

Do what ballin says and do a safe grab.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

Try to interupt their next attack with jab then grab.

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

Grab is probably the best option, but you could try Usmash at low %, planning a combo, if against a neglected opponent.

 

[firo]

What's best to end a uair mario combo? A forward hitting bair, or a fair? I've been using both, but assuming neither are stale I'm not sure which one to use.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

both work pretty well but personally you should perhaps trying to use the NAIR.

fair is 2nd best though.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

fair is first I think, or bair. Those two moves are too close in knockback.

You should only use nair if you can't get a fair/bair off.

 

[ciaza]

What Boom said. But do a forward hitting bair because it looks cooler.

 

[asianaussie]

Is U-Air > jump fireball > N-Air viable in (U)

Or is it only doable because (J) fireballs have greater hitstun?

 

[The Star King]

I think it's only doable in (J).

Which is a shame.

 

[firo]

What do people think of trying to edgeguard with Mario's down-b tornado? It's got some funky hitboxes, and nailing it from above with some good timing can result in a spike. I've been trying to do it every so often but it seems to be pretty inconsistent.

 

[dandan]

one problem is that unless you hit only with the spiking hitbox, which can be hard to do, the rest of the down b can be DIed as to avoid the spike and actually help the recovery.