Social Mario Hotel - Super Social 4

[fromundaman]

Mario's edgeguarding seems to be slightly better in this game. FLUDD pushback was buffed from what I've observed, so Mario does seem to have more offstage playmaking potential. Not to mention FLUDD can be used to just simply push people to the edge, which then lets you gain stage control against camping. But other than FLUDD gimmicks...yeah. Mario just really isn't good on default settings, and I mostly am really angry at professional players who tried to claim he was buffed.

Mega Man seems like Bowser, in that he probably has some really good and really bad matchups. His gameplan is amazing, until you pick things that easily ignore it. Palutena probably beats him, and she's not as solid of a character as him on default settings.

Pac-man seems like he's potentially OP, except his grab appears to be a tether grab and thus he can't really scare you in footsies. Just his camping looks so good when he has like a million and a half ways to escape traps easily and can attack from many angles viably. Like...Fire Hydrant is just...yeah. There's probably a reason he has a tether grab when I think of it that way.

IDK Mario felt a lot better in the demo, and maybe it's because I haven't spent significant time with him yet, but he felt slightly better to play this time around, although it could just be other characters getting nerfed that makes it seem that way.
That said there was no reason to nerf his Fair...

Ehhh... I have yet to find a Paletuna that scares me as Megaman. Honestly no reflect character is bad if you space yourself right since Crash bomb and Buzzsaw disappear before coming back to you.
The main drawback I've noticed to Megaman so far is if someone can zone you while holding the saw blade, it makes the game much harder. I know a Sheik wrecked me in tournament today by doing that, especially since she has the tools to decimate my approaches.

Pac Man is really good, but IDK if I'd call him OP. He has a few glaring weaknesses, of which the most obvious is the grab. His grab game is incredible BUUUUUT his grab itself kind of sucks. This can be mitigated with the push from the hydrant and pivot grabs though.
He also has some issues dealing with disjointed hitboxes diagonally below him.
Finally his recovery, while amazing, is very linear, allowing people to rack up damage on him as he returns.

That said, Pacman's damage output (Can combo 60% off of a melon or Galaga ship!!!) and kill potential are insane, and his fruits are so versatile and allow for a lot of setups.

 

[BSP]

Explain the Pac-Man OP-ness to me please. I kinda want to use him, but he's really weird. Well, compared to Mario anyway.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Explain the Pac-Man OP-ness to me please. I kinda want to use him, but he's really weird. Well, compared to Mario anyway.

Fruit toss allows Pac-Man to attack from many unconventional angles when the different items actually move at different trajectories. Some of the items also have great KO power or setup potential. The move is also good for air stalling because it slows Pac-Man's aerial momentum.

FIre Hydrant...is just...where do I even begin? You get out of ALL JUGGLE TRAPS FOR FREE because it's a projectile that goes straight down and has like almost no commitment, and the water sprays are hard to approach past. Consider for a moment that you can Fire Hydrant about a character length above the ground, and then you get to shield almost immediately by standing on the hydrant. Then you can even hit the Hydrant as a projectile. Combine that with Pac Man's air stalling potential...yeah. It gets kinda silly.

SideB lets you move in like any direction quickly while hitting things and has Super Armor and doesn't put you in free fall.

His main weakness is his grab is TERRIBLE. Like, almost Brawl ZSS terrible. You should practically never be grabbing things with Pac-Man, so his options in footsies aren't remarkable. But Pac-Man is really hard to lock down and is able to constantly be a threat at long range.

 

[fromundaman]

You forget his SideB is actually not as good as it seems.

He ONLY gets super armor if he reaches the last pellet and it has ridiculous recovery, meaning if he's trying to recover with it he has to throw the pellet out far for distance and won't get SA or kill power until he reaches it. This makes him really easy to spike mid-way through the move.

Also if you attack the power pellet before he reaches it, he and the pellet just fall and Pac Man sits there looking confused. This is almost guaranteed to gimp him every time.
Because of this a smart Pacman will almost always attempt to recover high and use the Hydrant to cover his fall.


I disagree with never grabbing with pacman though. His Dthrow and pummel are godlike, and grabs open his game up and force opponents to respect it. You just have to be very careful with it.

 

[Substitution]

Howdy! I'm am very much new to that of Mario and I'd like to know how to get better with him competitively (such as approach, comboing, and all around being a better plumber).

 

[A2ZOMG]

Howdy! I'm am very much new to that of Mario and I'd like to know how to get better with him competitively (such as approach, comboing, and all around being a better plumber).

http://smashboards.com/threads/mario-games-are-challenging-how-to-play-mario-effectively.370916/
http://smashboards.com/threads/marios-up-b-is-a-reliable-combo-finisher-mario-combo-thread.369792/

tl;dr, avoid getting into situations where you need to recover offstage, try your best to set up pressure opportunities with B-air, D-air, and Grabs. Spam fireballs whenever your opponent can't punish them. Use FLUDD, Cape, and Fireballs to edgeguard. And don't get too greedy with unreliable U-tilt chains after D-throw and remember to end combos with Up-B for reliable damage.

 

[BSP]

I messed with high pressure fludd for a bit today. The charging time time seems double that of regular FLUDD, but the pushback increase is significant.. I was testing it on an AI lucina that up B'd and I glided her. She was pretty much in the middle of the stage but still got shot way past the ledge.

Pressuring descending opponents to the ledge and then HPFludding them may be enough to ko by itself

 

[Anragon]

High Pressure Fludd feels lackluster for me because it takes so much time to charge. I use it mainly to reset situations or stop aerial approaches. Also i don't like the pushback effect when you use it.

But hey, custom moves are not going to be allowed in France so meh

 

[T25XL]

I will be able to fully join this conversation on 11/21 (or possibly later, don't know if I'll get ssb4 for wii u right on the release date, but I'll see). For now, back to beating people up in brawl with the king of low tiers

 

[meleebrawler]

High Pressure Fludd feels lackluster for me because it takes so much time to charge. I use it mainly to reset situations or stop aerial approaches. Also i don't like the pushback effect when you use it.

But hey, custom moves are not going to be allowed in France so meh

I find that, if you hold the direction you're facing in while firing HP FLUDD, you'll
(at least in the air) negate the pushback.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Speaking of customs, I feel like you really only want to use High Pressure FLUDD if you are running the extended Up-B to maximize edgeguarding potential. Otherwise if you're edgeguarding from on the stage, you might as well be using regular FLUDD which doesn't take as much time to charge and also doesn't push you back as far.

Scalding FLUDD is pretty useless though. Fire Orb is very situational but I believe has potential for covering options when edgeguarding/edgetrapping, which is again something you would specifically use with extended Up-B. Though using that over the other two fireballs is overall hard to justify.

Most well rounded set either way uses Explosive Jump Punch + Gust Cape + Fast Fireballs. This set addresses all of Mario's primary weaknesses simultaneously in some way. Explosive Jump Punch gives you more combo damage and an aerial KO option. Gust Cape improves your recovery, assists edgeguards, and can be used in midrange for spacing. Fast Fireballs are great for annoying people in midrange safely. The main downside of this set is you can't edgeguard low recoveries as easily.

The other viable set imo is extended Up-B + Electric Cape + High Pressure FLUDD. This Mario is oriented on survivability and edgeguarding. B reverse Electric Cape from what I'm guessing is great for getting out of traps and the move is also great for offstage KOs. High Pressure FLUDD and extended Up-B have strong synergy for edgeguarding as well. You CAN use Gust Cape on this set if you want, though against characters you can't gimp, that will hurt your offstage KO potential.

 

[T25XL]

Speaking of customs, I feel like you really only want to use High Pressure FLUDD if you are running the extended Up-B to maximize edgeguarding potential. Otherwise if you're edgeguarding from on the stage, you might as well be using regular FLUDD which doesn't take as much time to charge and also doesn't push you back as far.

Scalding FLUDD is pretty useless though. Fire Orb is very situational but I believe has potential for covering options when edgeguarding/edgetrapping, which is again something you would specifically use with extended Up-B. Though using that over the other two fireballs is overall hard to justify.

Most well rounded set either way uses Explosive Jump Punch + Gust Cape + Fast Fireballs. This set addresses all of Mario's primary weaknesses simultaneously in some way. Explosive Jump Punch gives you more combo damage and an aerial KO option. Gust Cape improves your recovery, assists edgeguards, and can be used in midrange for spacing. Fast Fireballs are great for annoying people in midrange safely. The main downside of this set is you can't edgeguard low recoveries as easily.

The other viable set imo is extended Up-B + Electric Cape + High Pressure FLUDD. This Mario is oriented on survivability and edgeguarding. B reverse Electric Cape from what I'm guessing is great for getting out of traps and the move is also great for offstage KOs. High Pressure FLUDD and extended Up-B have strong synergy for edgeguarding as well. You CAN use Gust Cape on this set if you want, though against characters you can't gimp, that will hurt your offstage KO potential.

Seems legit.

 

[BSP]

High Pressure Fludd feels lackluster for me because it takes so much time to charge. I use it mainly to reset situations or stop aerial approaches. Also i don't like the pushback effect when you use it.

But hey, custom moves are not going to be allowed in France so meh

Gotta agree, Mario slides too far with it.

Also, I'm sure it's obvious, but no one has mentioned it: FLUDD's water doesn't clank with attacks anymore, so people can't attack the water to mitigate the push. This means FIHL is gone, but no up B's should just go straight through FLUDD either.

I haven't used FLUDD much against projectiles yet. I'll see how it does against them.

 

[Vidd]

I'm having real trouble in For Glory finishing off opponents. Once you get them up to a high percentage, how do you finish them?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm having real trouble in For Glory finishing off opponents. Once you get them up to a high percentage, how do you finish them?

Fresh B-throw at like 160.

Fresh U-smash or D-smash at around 120. Do either out of shield or to catch your opponent during juggles or punishing whiffs.

Edgeguard with N-air/Fireballs/FLUDD/Cape.

If you're amazing at reading spacing, charge F-smash at maximum range, bait a whiff, and punish to kill at around 90%.

You gotta pick your moves carefully with Mario. If you're staling your Smashes or B-throw without a plan on how to finish your opponent, you're gonna have a bad day killing people. Though keep in mind against people who don't respect the range on Mario's F-smash, don't bother saving it strictly for KOs when it does massive damage.

By the way, you should never be using D-smash outside of really low% combos or KOs tbh. Only does 10 damage in this game. Guess you can cover rolls by charging it, but seriously, if your D-smash in particular is stale for any reason, you probably are playing wrong.

 

[Anragon]

I feel in this game Usmash OoS is our best option so far to get a easy kill on most characters if they aren't in front of us (RIP Brawl Usmash 2008-2014 we'll miss you).

B-throw is a good option at 160-180% IF you are near the edge. A2ZOMG told pretty much everything c:

I'm the kind of player that loves to take risks offstage so i don't hesitate to read recoveries and use F-air often. But don't follow my behaviour if you don't like doing #YOLO things

 

[MrM]

My custom mario runs

Fireball
Gust cape
Explosive punch
High pressure fludd

I think this build might cover everything any flaws you guys might see in it

 

[A2ZOMG]

High Pressure FLUDD imo is pointless unless you're running High Jump Punch. Regular FLUDD is better except in situations where you want to jump offstage to edgeguard.

 

[BSP]

I can't experiment with HPFLUDD in real matches yet, but I'm going to try and give it a fair shot. Normal FLUDD seems more useful in most cases.

Not sure how scalding FLUDD helps much. Maybe we can hitconfirm from it?

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm just watching Ninjalink's custom move analysis...and the move just seems really useless.

I mean, it doesn't have much range even when fully charged. It has kinda slow startup, and best case scenario it does 9 damage. And I am almost certain you don't get combos from it.

That vs potentially pushing people to the ledge? Not worth it. This move seems like it was designed to be an anti-air of sorts, but considering the risk and reward of it, it tactically doesn't really do anything.

 

[Vidd]

Thanks for the tips, guys. It's sad the way back throw sends them so high, meaning you can't use FLUDD.
I feel like Mario really has to work for each KO in this game. Hopefully it's just my inexperience.

 

[T25XL]

Thanks for the tips, guys. It's sad the way back throw sends them so high, meaning you can't use FLUDD.
I feel like Mario really has to work for each KO in this game. Hopefully it's just my inexperience.

well then again, really having to work for a KO could be said for any character, just some are better at it than others (more so in brawl, my opinion) but for mario, it's pretty much always been like that, just to higher and lower extents. At least that's my opinion, I've played all smash games with the exception of smash 4

 

[A2ZOMG]

Thanks for the tips, guys. It's sad the way back throw sends them so high, meaning you can't use FLUDD.
I feel like Mario really has to work for each KO in this game. Hopefully it's just my inexperience.

Well, not having an aerial finisher does make things tricky.

About 1 week and 1 month from now...I'll try to buy the Wii-U version, then I'll post my NNID on my profile and I'll be able to get in wifi with people for some good fun and match analysis. I can record replays possibly too.

I strongly discourage Mario dittos though, and you're more likely to catch me playing other characters. Have secondaries ready if you want me to play Mario. Otherwise if you make me do a Mario ditto, I will make it as unpleasant as possible.

(assuming of course I get up to speed. Haven't played Smash in a while)

 

[BoTastic!]

So I got first going all Mario at a tournament today. Results and video of grand finals(which is a bit anti climatic actually) should be posted soon. I'm liking Mario a lot. I feel he has the tools to deal with a lot of characters. So far I'm not seeing any glaring bad match ups.

But we'll see in the future.

 

[Kanzaki]

So I got first going all Mario at a tournament today. Results and video of grand finals(which is a bit anti climatic actually) should be posted soon. I'm liking Mario a lot. I feel he has the tools to deal with a lot of characters. So far I'm not seeing any glaring bad match ups.

But we'll see in the future.

Good stuff. I got 5th going all mario 2 weeks ago.. And then 2nd last week going Mario/fox.

Old school brawl Mario's stepping it up

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

The King of Evil invites you over for a talk of styles.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-dark-arts-of-ganon-match-up-discussion-guide.373934/

Match-up discussion

 

[Vidd]

I've got to say, I really did not respect Mario's fireball enough. It makes approaches so much easier and helps deal with stuff like Falcon Kick.

 

[SamXPO]

Hey does anyone wanna play

 

[Joshkip]

Any Mario main that goes by the name "rod" on the network? I played one in for glory and we went neck and neck. All I want is to say thanks for the games and hope I can get his/her friend code or something? I had a blast fighting him/her. Much thanks in advance.

Message me on here if you know or if you are him/her.

 

[BSP]

Ran into a good ZSS on FG Mode.

I did 81%. I know I'm not top player level, but dang.

If you're going to go competitive in this game and you care about winning, have a second besides mario ready.

 

[T25XL]

nvm this post

 

[Brinzy]

Yo I am getting thrashed by some Japanese Mario. That guy's got combos like no other.

 

[BSP]

nvm this post

Actually, you were right. I still don't think Mario has unwinnables in this game. I just need to get better.

 

[Iko-Seiko]

Got fifth at a 64-person tournament over the weekend with all mario!

I just wanna take a second to thank the gust cape for existing. Oh. My. Goodness.

 

[T25XL]

Actually, you were right. I still don't think Mario has unwinnables in this game. I just need to get better.

oh alright, I thought people disagreed with me XD

 

[Cezz624]

Do you guys think Mario has a reliable D-tilt in this game?
Yo, T25XL wanna get some matches going on 3DS?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Do you guys think Mario has a reliable D-tilt in this game?
Yo, T25XL wanna get some matches going on 3DS?

It's usable. Not super reliable, but starts juggles more viably in this game than it did previously, and has lower knockback growth than U-tilt meaning you can set up mindgame traps at high percents with it.

It also has more range than D-smash and hits lower, which is nice.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think Mario with customs is not just marginally, but WAYYYY better, like, I'm glad these are in the game better.

The more research I see on the FLUDDs the more I think Mario has a pretty versatile kit of customs if you ask me. I feel like thy make him...more satisfying to play, really let him stand his ground a LOT better, same with Doc actually. Both of the Marios benefit greatly from these.

 

[Fire!]

Does anyone know if we have any moves that reach below the ledge similar to Little Mac's Down Smash? I've been trying with down angled Forward Smash, but got nothing...

Seriously, trying to break down this ledge game is annoying. Although I did manage a Cape Teleport!

 

[Iko-Seiko]

the windbox of the gust cape goes below the ledge... but its useless if they grabbed onto it already. I believe our down-angled ftilt works, too.