He's quite right actuallyHurray for more ignorant posts ^_^
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He's quite right actuallyHurray for more ignorant posts ^_^
Well since my sarcasm detector isn't moving:He's quite right actually
Or one could say, that this game isn't even a year old and that we still have a lot to learnCharacters "****" because they have the necessary tools to do so. When top Brawl players are losing to Meta Knights of lesser skill then I think one could say something isn't right.
lol, again.But thats kinda my point.People arent learning to play well.Their learning to play crazy.Unlike MK plyers who need just pure skill to win no techs or nothing.People need to learn to play better.BECOME A BETTER PLAYER BY BEATING THE S**T OUT OF MK!
If a Lucas top player loses to a Snake of lesser skill something isn't right? Well, I guess Gheb IS right. "Top" players all hop on the bandwagon and play MK and most of them win because they are good. Some MK players just can't win tournaments, this is because they are worse players than top players.Well since my sarcasm detector isn't moving:
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I guess i'll respond to this.
Characters "****" because they have the necessary tools to do so. When top Brawl players are losing to Meta Knights of lesser skill then I think one could say something isn't right.
Maybe, but I am sure some characters will develop certain tricks (not ATs!) to deal with other characters.Perhaps, but this game certainly isn't nearly as deep as Melee. For the most part it will simply be players progressing, not the characters.
Good brawl players don't lost to bad Metaknights. We all know he's good so we should all be ready for the matchup. Losing to a bad Metaknight means you were unprepared or not as good as you think you were.Well since my sarcasm detector isn't moving:
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I guess i'll respond to this.
Characters "****" because they have the necessary tools to do so. When top Brawl players are losing to Meta Knights of lesser skill then I think one could say something isn't right.
Inui you know that banning MK isn't based on single matches, it is based on how MK is doing across the board. And no one is saying MK is unstoppable, we know he isn't.I used to counterpick Meta Knights with Snake long before I mained Meta Knight because I felt that Snake won. I still feel that he wins and would rather go Snake than do the ditto.
Edrees, Meta Knight isn't some dominating unstoppable force. I posted a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE list showing the losses of top ATLANTIC NORTH Meta Knights to other players using NOT Meta Knight. It's solid proof that Meta Knight is stoppable. Forte was long considered second only to Mew2King when it came to Meta Knight, yet he lost three money matches to Atomsk's Dedede.
Wouldn't that apply to any character then?Someone said it before me: if you beat a MK you beat the player, not the character.
It has nothing to do with depth, when ppl can't even DI correctly out of the NadoPerhaps, but this game certainly isn't nearly as deep as Melee. For the most part it will simply be players progressing, not the characters.
If he is beatable, then he should not be banned. I know for a fact that Meta Knight doesn't even come close to dominating Atlantic North. Only Mew2King dominates, and he'd do that with Snake or Dedede anyways.Inui you know that banning MK isn't based on single matches, it is based on how MK is doing across the board. And no one is saying MK is unstoppable, we know he isn't.
With that logic, Akuma shouldn't have been banned, since he WAS beatable.If he is beatable, then he should not be banned.
I told two of my friends in college that people have been bringing up Akuma and comparing him to MK. These friends are experienced players of other fighting games. One of them plays SC4 and Guilty Gear competitively.With that logic, Akuma shouldn't have been banned, since he WAS beatable.
The problem with that is Metaknight has 6 jumps. Good luck getting past his off-stage edgeguarding with only one airdodge.MK is one of the very few characters who is minimally impacted by Shield/L Canceling. Characters who were once regarded as incompetent are now battle-worthy with S/L Canceling and Wavedashing back.
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!!!The problem with that is Metaknight has 6 jumps. Good luck getting past his off-stage edgeguarding with only one airdodge.
I'm not comparing him to Akuma you silly little man.I told two of my friends in college that people have been bringing up Akuma and comparing him to MK. These friends are experienced players of other fighting games. One of them plays SC4 and Guilty Gear competitively.
They think it's a total joke to compare MK to Akuma. Akuma's air fireball > the game. The physics of the game said "lol ur fukd" when he used that move.
This is actually a very good point. It's what made Jigglypuff so dominant in the later years of Melee. So I suppose we'd see the multiple-jumpers (MK, DDD, Jigs, Kirby, Pit, Charizard to an extent) get a boost from this aspect.The problem with that is Metaknight has 6 jumps. Good luck getting past his off-stage edgeguarding with only one airdodge.
Even if you're 1000 times better than the other player I still think you would lose.Sorry LOL. It's alllll my fault.
Akuma could be beaten...if you're 1000 times better than the other player. Meta Knight is nowhere near that extreme.
In fact, I've beaten superior players that used Meta Knight with Marth in tournament sets. That's not supposed to happen, right?
...Or plank getting a % advantage and ledgestalling.Someone needs to relink to that video of DMK vs Sethlon's Falco to dispute Inui's claims. DMK wins by doing nothing but using Up B, B, and Dsmash... and Sethlon has a good Falco.
Neither is winning with anyone in low tier, apparently. Things become much more broad and hard to agree upon when you have no borderlines. We haven't had to ever ban a character in Smash, this is something we're not used to.In fact, I've beaten superior players that used Meta Knight with Marth in tournament sets. That's not supposed to happen, right?
If the top tiers can lose often, namely Meta Knight, then there's no reason to ban any of them.Neither is winning with anyone in low tier, apparently. Things become much more broad and hard to agree upon when you have no borderlines. We haven't had to ever ban a character in Smash, this is something we're not used to.
If you mean "remove tripping," then that's awesome.It should've been expected that something like this would happen (and I'm sure some saw this coming a mile away. I know I did).
Right now, I'm open to try Brawl with hacks, with the exception of getting rid of the directional dodging.
Why would you want wavedashing when all MK has to do to you then is get you off the level; something he already excels at?
So Ganon can do this!Why would you want wavedashing when all MK has to do to you then is get you off the level; something he already excels at?
To your first point: I disagree.If the top tiers can lose often, namely Meta Knight, then there's no reason to ban any of them.
If you mean "remove tripping," then that's awesome.
Wavedashing would give characters excellent answers to Meta Knight's shield pressure and camping.
I will not, and shall not ever deny how awesome that was.So Ganon can do this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2p7zyUqpHE
and....and THIS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZSDGEv5QE8
Actually, decent players beat noobs using Akuma at Japanese tournies aaaaall the time.There's an obvious difference between Akuma and MK. You cannot realistically win against Akuma with anyone, even if the opponent is a far worse player.
MK is different. He's just overpowered but ppl need to be a little more calm. At the moment at least. The game is still very young, so it's too early to say anything about a ban.
Not referring to you specifically, but I think you really have to specify skill level when talking about this things. Because MK, at the top percentage of skill level is clearly the best character to most people. However, if you go to the most basic noob skill level, and I mean really basic, then one could argue that Ike can easily beat MK. If the Ike and MK players only know how to use the ctstick, then at this extremely low level of skill, Ike will win, and Ike is the better character. So yea, Akuma at top levels of play was nigh impossible to defeat. And it wasn't even really close.Actually, decent players beat noobs using Akuma at Japanese tournies aaaaall the time.
I hope for your well being this is a joke.Of course not.
SFIV has enough depth to have a character with no bad matchups and have no problem with it.
Brawl doesn't.
The fact that people are talking about banning MK is a problem.I hope for your well being this is a joke.
Which is why you solve the problem, and ban MK.The fact that people are talking about banning MK is a problem.
Flawed argument. Meta Knight doesn't win tournaments by huge margins. There are plenty of characters who can reasonably beat him.Exactly, that's what I'm argueing about. FUTURE tournaments. We couldn't ban Marth in Melee because there was a good chance he wouldn't win those tournaments that he did win. The odds weren't extremely skewed due to a system of counterpicks. I'm glad we can agree that it's all about tournaments because that's exactly what I'm saying.
Snake is the only one who stands a reasonable chance at beating him, that we know of for sure. But I guess that's still one =p. Yoshis claim they can with that pivot grab while a Yoshi player has yet to rank decently in a tournament. Donkey Kong/DDD have the tools, but it would be a shame to state that the outcome of such matches are representative of the highest level of play =p. Snakeee claims she goes neutral, but nothing's set in stone. This is a point on which many do not agree in and as it is the core of most pro-ban's arguments, I believe thorough analysis of these matchups are in order. Which gives the anti-ban camp reason as it is indeed too early to put forth such opinions (MK having no bad matchups) as fact.Flawed argument. Meta Knight doesn't win tournaments by huge margins. There are plenty of characters who can reasonably beat him.
Fox, Sheik and Falco (to a lesser extent) gained from the very same lack of solid counterpicks, iirc. You then had 3~4 characters at the very top that were just as viable as the next. And Melee's depth allowed lower tiers to rise and shine (CF, Puff, etc). In Brawl, you have MK>Snake>>>>The rest, and a few honorable mentions (ie. anther in the west). What annoys people, I presume, is that MK is the only one in god tier.Even with the counter-picks against Marth (pray tell, what stages? There are, like, two stage that I know of that are anti-Marth), he still dominated. He still had no real counters, suffering only slightly disadvantaged match-ups at worst.
Now you're just push forth your own standards.Meta Knight enjoys slightly better match-ups relatively speaking (Meta Knight has several OMFGWTFP0WN matches, but those characters suck anyway) and he's not winning tournaments by constant 3- or even 2-stocking. He's just winning in large quantities, not by wide margins.