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Mass Madness 4A - 5 YEAR ANNIVERSARY- M2K?? G$?? HAX?? - $50 OoR Bonus for 1st

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
Random Crew Bracket: Each person gets a random teammate. That's your "crew" of 2 people. The crews themselves are put into a normal double elimination bracket. Each bracket set is played like an individual crew battle, i.e. stocks carry over between games.

Random Crews: Presumably exactly what it sounds like.

Amateur Bracket: A separate bracket after pools that's only available for people who didn't make it out of pools. Usually runs concurrently with the pro bracket.
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
draft crews are better than "random crew bracket" imo, the last time i was at a tournament that they did the latter there were a lot of... unfair teams looooooooool

:phone:
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
Hailey Convinced me to go. Imma be there with my recording setup!

HYPE!!!

p.s. can someone explain to me what Random Crew Bracket, Random Crews, and Amateur Bracket are?
....

Nine.

There are gong to be NINE recording setups at this. Absolutely amazing.
 

PK Webb

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
2,753
Location
the lab
this looks awesome........................................................im not coming lol
 

Cummings

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
96
Location
Ledyard, CT (Right next to Foxwoods/Mohegan Sun)
Random Crew Bracket: Each person gets a random teammate. That's your "crew" of 2 people. The crews themselves are put into a normal double elimination bracket. Each bracket set is played like an individual crew battle, i.e. stocks carry over between games.

Random Crews: Presumably exactly what it sounds like.

Amateur Bracket: A separate bracket after pools that's only available for people who didn't make it out of pools. Usually runs concurrently with the pro bracket.
Why can't we run both the amateur bracket as well as one other optional event? since the rest of the optional events would have a designated time (before or after singles/doubles) while the amateur bracket runs along side the pro... and only a few specific people can enter...? because if its possible to do two im voting for random crews and amateur bracket.

or is it just a matter of having too much going on?

if so then im voting for random crews. more hype.
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
KevinM treats it as a side event instead of considering it something that should be a staple at most tournaments if it is possible given setups and entrants. It's not difficult to run both brackets side by side from my experience.




srsly tho: I think it's because he doesn't like the idea of taking 15% of the pot and paying top3 of Ama with it, which allows for auto-entry to Ama. He is one of the few people I've encountered that put up a strong resistance to "paying for other people to play."

So it's reasonable to treat it as a side event when you remove the auto-entry factor because people have to pay again to enter and doing sign-ups while running a bracket is a fair distraction.


Also because I know he likes Swiss format (I'm excited to see it, I missed the last MM when he used it) and Swiss does not allow for an amateur bracket, if I'm not mistaken.
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
I just feel that Amateur should be a staple for all local/regional tournaments and not treated as a side event but instead just a natural part of the Singles Tournament.

Obviously exceptions arise, such as what happened at OSS where there wasn't enough people to validate running an Amateur tournament.

But, yeah, I'm 100% for a Project: M side event.
 

Elen

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
USA
KevinM treats it as a side event instead of considering it something that should be a staple at most tournaments if it is possible given setups and entrants. It's not difficult to run both brackets side by side from my experience.




srsly tho: I think it's because he doesn't like the idea of taking 15% of the pot and paying top3 of Ama with it, which allows for auto-entry to Ama. He is one of the few people I've encountered that put up a strong resistance to "paying for other people to play."

So it's reasonable to treat it as a side event when you remove the auto-entry factor because people have to pay again to enter and doing sign-ups while running a bracket is a fair distraction.


Also because I know he likes Swiss format (I'm excited to see it, I missed the last MM when he used it) and Swiss does not allow for an amateur bracket, if I'm not mistaken.
Matt, did you even listen during our extensive conversation on this subject months ago? I find it offensive that you're putting words into Kevin's mouth, when both him and I have done our best to express clearly how we feel about a mandatory amateur bracket. You have not fully understood our reasoning, and are misrepresenting our thoughts with poor paraphrasing. After long conversations with many players, both new and old, I have found almost nobody disagreeing with the way we feel about amateur bracket. If you are interested, give me a call and we can further discuss views on the subject, and hopefully can help you clearly see our views, regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

We do not consider amateur bracket a side event because we are incapable of running one simultaneously. We consider it a side event so we can optimize the speed of our tournament, which grants us a comfortable time frame to include all tournament participants in a way that the community chooses.

People have fun at our tournaments. People have fun at your tournaments. Our views on hosting differ in many ways, and trying to turn it into some sort of competition is completely asinine.
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
I'm not trying to turn it into a competition. It's my thoughts that local and regional tournaments should incorporate an amateur bracket and treat it the same way a pro bracket is treated because of the benefit it has to lower-level players. At the same time, I do understand that MM#A has been going very well in direction you two have taken it.

I must've misunderstood something. That paraphrase is representative of what I took from Kevin when he expressed at one of my tournaments that he did not want me to run a mandatory amateur bracket because 15% of his entry fee was going to paying out the winners of amateur bracket. I recall a few other players siding with him and being defiant about entering if I kept it that way. Though they did all enter eventually and that was that.

To be entirely honest with you I do not remember our conversation on this, Jared. I recall it happening but not what was said from either side. I'll give you a call in a bit to talk about it.
 

Elen

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
USA
I'm not trying to turn it into a competition. It's my thoughts that local and regional tournaments should incorporate an amateur bracket and treat it the same way a pro bracket is treated because of the benefit it has to lower-level players. At the same time, I do understand that MM#A has been going very well in direction you two have taken it.

I must've misunderstood something. That paraphrase is representative of what I took from Kevin when he expressed at one of my tournaments that he did not want me to run a mandatory amateur bracket because 15% of his entry fee was going to paying out the winners of amateur bracket. I recall a few other players siding with him and being defiant about entering if I kept it that way. Though they did all enter eventually and that was that.

To be entirely honest with you I do not remember our conversation on this, Jared. I recall it happening but not what was said from either side. I'll give you a call in a bit to talk about it.
My reasoning for not always running amateur is completely irrelevant from entry fees. I think your method of entry fees is fine, and understand the reasoning behind it. I also think having an amateur bracket that you buy back into is fine for those who have issue funding an event they will not be a part of. The fact that the community is so small and sponsorless makes it difficult to find a balance between those two options, but they are both adequate for the hosting situation we have.

However, from what I have found, people are not expressing strong interest or general opinions towards having an amateur bracket. If this is not the case, I urge those interested in an amateur event to send me a private message me and bring this up so there can be evidence to the contrary. I have found that people are happier with having a few hours throughout the day with casual TV's, as well as not feeling obligated to constantly be in the venue for an event. Spacing out events and leaving extra time for when issues arise has proven to be important to finishing a tournament on time constraints. I feel with a larger number of entrants, an amateur bracket has often hindered a tournament from running on a concise schedule, which I feel it is one of my top priorities to prevent as a host.

I'm sure there's more to talk about on this subject, and we both need to keep learning and improving the way we each host our tournaments. There are logical reasons for running tournaments a variety of different ways, and each host needs to choose which of those they find to be most important in order to taper their events to their goals. I urge you to give me a call, and hope you're getting a better understanding of where I'm coming from.
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
My reasoning for not always running amateur is completely irrelevant from entry fees. I think your method of entry fees is fine, and understand the reasoning behind it. I also think having an amateur bracket that you buy back into is fine for those who have issue funding an event they will not be a part of. The fact that the community is so small and sponsorless makes it difficult to find a balance between those two options, but they are both adequate for the hosting situation we have.

However, from what I have found, people are not expressing strong interest or general opinions towards having an amateur bracket. If this is not the case, I urge those interested in an amateur event to send me a private message me and bring this up so there can be evidence to the contrary. I have found that people are happier with having a few hours throughout the day with casual TV's, as well as not feeling obligated to constantly be in the venue for an event. Spacing out events and leaving extra time for when issues arise has proven to be important to finishing a tournament on time constraints. I feel with a larger number of entrants, an amateur bracket has often hindered a tournament from running on a concise schedule, which I feel it is one of my top priorities to prevent as a host.

I'm sure there's more to talk about on this subject, and we both need to keep learning and improving the way we each host our tournaments. There are logical reasons for running tournaments a variety of different ways, and each host needs to choose which of those they find to be most important in order to taper their events to their goals. I urge you to give me a call, and hope you're getting a better understanding of where I'm coming from.
You've made your case well and I absolutely do see where you are coming from a lot more clearly now. I agree with you that if the number of entrants surpasses a certain threshold it is in the TOs best interest to just run one bracket and finish that as quickly as possible.

Also my apologies for not having called yet. I'm feeling kind of sick and fell asleep shortly after posting my reply to you.

Bolded the PM-Elen part so nobody misses it.


i might be attending this
For real?
Bring your recording setup so we hit 10.


But, seriously, FOR REAL?! <3
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
Project M is less than a month old. Run a bracket for that and everyone will be considered an amateur!
 

whitemountain123

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Messages
73
Location
dreaming (lucid, hopefully)
should be able to make it to this with a friend. we're both relatively new to the smash scene and excited, and we vote for an amateur bracket if possible

also, i think i came to game underground for a halo 3 tournament a few years ago lol.
 

Elen

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
USA
should be able to make it to this with a friend. we're both relatively new to the smash scene and excited, and we vote for an amateur bracket if possible

also, i think i came to game underground for a halo 3 tournament a few years ago lol.
It's very possible! It would have been known as Game Universe back then when it was under different ownership!

Thanks for the input. Look forward to seeing you guys there!
 

Elen

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
USA
It seems like there's a lot of interest in a Project:M side event. Just keep in mind that this is dependent on how many setups of the game we can get, so if you're interested bring your wii!
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
I'm not sure if you can use a single SD card, either. I imagine that if you remove an SD card for use in another Wii then Project:M will stop running.

This is complete speculation, however. I don't own an SD card so I've never been able to test that.

Hopefully someone that does can test this for me?

I have 4 wiis/copies of brawl that belong to GU that I'm bringing back to them at this tournament, so if a single SD card is all it will take we will have at least 4 setups.
 

Neji

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
44
Location
Kennebunkport, Maine
I can bring my cube setup, a TV, as well as a Project M Setup if its going to happen. I'm not going to bring the Project M setup unless its going to happen though.

I'm also likewise going to be bringing my recording setup.

Get hype
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
Recorders:

MattDotZeb
Blanky
Mr. Lemon
ProSkater
Diesel
ShawnNumbers
Hydro
Neji
Relax

YCZ was initially included in my previous count but he is not able to make it to this and it seems he's lost his recording equipment anyway.
 

The Great Gonzales

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 7, 2007
Messages
558
Location
Springfield,MA
well imma probally bring a setup if my crew members go and i get a ride (TV+Wii). If i have to take a bus and come alone imma just bring my wii with smash and Project:M
 

Elen

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
USA
I'm not sure if you can use a single SD card, either. I imagine that if you remove an SD card for use in another Wii then Project:M will stop running.

This is complete speculation, however. I don't own an SD card so I've never been able to test that.

Hopefully someone that does can test this for me?

I have 4 wiis/copies of brawl that belong to GU that I'm bringing back to them at this tournament, so if a single SD card is all it will take we will have at least 4 setups.
I am pretty sure this is not the case, as that would be a fairly large amount of data for the Wii to hold with it's tiny bit of RAM. I'll try and test it out if I find a friend with another wii that they'll let me softmod.
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
I figure you could test it on your own -- Just boot up P:M and remove the SD card and see if it's still running.
 

Shadow Huan

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
2,224
Location
Springfield, MA
probably gonna go all mewtwo at this, will be sure to be here too, as it might be Spife's last NE tournament

so yeah nearlyamonthawayhype

:phone:
well imma probally bring a setup if my crew members go and i get a ride (TV+Wii). If i have to take a bus and come alone imma just bring my wii with smash and Project:M
why would you be going alone? :awesome:
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
The SD card needs to stay in the Wii while the game is running. The codes are loaded when you boot the game, but all custom files (character movesets, stages, music, etc.) are loaded on a per-match basis.
 

Elen

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
1,206
Location
USA
That makes sense, considering the full game totals about 500mb. We'll just have to play it by ear, but with one copy a draft crew is possible at least.
 

Mr.Lemon

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
283
Location
Stoneham MA
I'm not sure if you can use a single SD card, either. I imagine that if you remove an SD card for use in another Wii then Project:M will stop running.

This is complete speculation, however. I don't own an SD card so I've never been able to test that.

Hopefully someone that does can test this for me?

I have 4 wiis/copies of brawl that belong to GU that I'm bringing back to them at this tournament, so if a single SD card is all it will take we will have at least 4 setups.
I actually tried this the other day and it does NOT work
 

hotdogturtle

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
3,503
Well if you start a list of people who are able to bring Project M setups (Wii + SD card) under the assumption that the tournament happens, then you can see how many you'll have by the 19th and figure out whether it's actually possible.
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
That's amazing. You should look into going to MIT this Saturday or Smash in the Box on the following. Both want to have P:M but so far not enough setups.
 
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