Nintendude
Smash Hero
Sounds fine to me, though I'd be interested in how ka-master feels about Luigi in that matchup. Does he use smashboards?
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.
- Thread starter t3h Icy
- Start date
- Status
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Guaranteed death at low 80s on every stage but Dreamland tends to be good.
otg
Smash Master
Falco >> Every character below Ice Climbers.
ATLEAST.
ATLEAST.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Yes he does. But not often. He reads every now and again.
The buzz around WA is that luigi ***** falco.. Or at least KA ***** technical spacies.
Ill try to get him to give a response or something to the actual matchup.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Falco does not >> Samus.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Crouch > lightning heel.
Gaw has a more reliable approach than zelda. Fair/bair have better range. Once he gets her in the air, he has no problem keeping her there. It's just another one of those Zelda/other low tier character matches that they get wrecked if they go in naked but if they can play a tight defensive game, they'll just barely win out. I think it's like 52-48 in Gaw's favor because landing a punish with gaw is easier but it's harder to land the final blow. Zelda has a harder time punishing defensive play but punishes gaw big when she can land it.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Lmao that's all wrong actually.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Just posting conflicting viewpoints and stating the pro's of one character over the other doesn't really accomplish anything. It's just pretty well known that Zelda > G&W. There's no point explaining it any further.
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Whatever, I'll save it for when the zelda vs gaw matchup discussion comes up.
You got lucky this time.
You got lucky this time.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
KK with the rimshot.
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
if thats a correlation between sheik and those 2 (i dont like that idea but w.e)
sheik > peach so theres that
puff beats sheik because of of their mechanics. say sheiks grab and puffs crouch->rest. kind of a fluke.
that being said sheik has only a slight edge on falco
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
what correlation...?
i'm saying there's people who think falco has no bad matchups and then there's people that think falco has a few bad matchups, so it's hard to get solid opinions on things because people tend to have different views on falco's matchups
i'm saying there's people who think falco has no bad matchups and then there's people that think falco has a few bad matchups, so it's hard to get solid opinions on things because people tend to have different views on falco's matchups
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
sorry, i misunderstood your first sentence. but some people make correlations like that (i think theres even a name for it inui logic or something), so i wasnt sure
john!
Smash Hero
Honestly at least he tries to support his arguments with evidence. You just say that things are "widely known" and expect everyone to respect your opinion. Your reluctance to explain anything makes me doubt whether you know what you're talking about.
Kason Birdman
Smash Champion
marth > falco.
lol
7es.
lol
7es.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Moo I am a cow.
Crimson)S(hadow
Smash Apprentice
falco > fox if a falco shuffles right (dair low, shine quickly, then mango a dair asap), he simply should not be getting grabbed or shined or upsmashed out of shield. hard to get grabs, which is your main way of starting a combo besides upsmashes. his bair outranges your EVERYTHING, his nair is slightly more ranged then yours. someone who has their fast faller pillar combos down should be getting at least 50% combos off of just one shine, which is so much easier to get then a grab.
falco = jiggs falco can do something off of upthrow,and once jiggs is 30% dair dair dair dair combos **** puff hard. plus sometimes you can shine off the top in levels like stadium, yoshis, and sometimes battlefield. if falco is close enough to jiggs, you can't crouch his grab. if he shuffles right then you can't grab him. his bair outranges the WOP. yeah its pretty easy to gimp him but any falco with a brain would just sit in the middle and shoot lazers, forcing you to approach. and get off the edge. uptilt kills at 120%, and its not hard to camp around with bairs and lazer you 20-30% if your already at 100% or 90%
falco = peach again if the falco actually shuffles his pressure well, you can't grab or even nair out of shield. maybe an up+b out of shield but thats only if he's close enough to you. when edgeguarding his dair beats your umbrella,at least when he's facing forward. on stadium and yoshi's, sometimes even battlefield its pretty easy to combo peach and shine her off the top.dairs can start up combos once peach is 30% or so. if he shields your dash attack its a shinebair out of shield, or dair combos. from peach's perspective peach isn't as locked up as most people are to falco's lazers though since she can float just above falco's highest short hop lazer height, and peach also has a good speed//decent sized shield for powershielding lazers. dsmash is very good, and turnips can actually gimp if they don't shine them back at you.
falco = sheik or falco>sheik sheik, along with samus is really good for powershielding lazers with her speed//large shield. falco combos the **** out of sheik though, and a missed dash attack = shinebair out of shield or shinedair -> tech chase on ground out of shield. recovering vs falco is also a *****; either die or get back on to get dtilted//dsmashed//dair combo'd//shine combo'd. also very hard to grab falco. vs a falco that actually plays against a sheik, its pretty hard to gimp them. if they DI your ftilts right, they get out of your ftilt -> fair
falco = samus // falco > samus being edgeguarded by falco is pretty tough, and the lazers lock samus up pretty bad. samus can do good with up+b out of sheld and her combos on him are decent though. if your good at powershielding, samus' speed//shield size is very good for powershielding lazers though. from falco's perspective its very frustrating to mess up shuffle pressure and get up+b'ed out of shield, and most of the time its too tricky to punish the landing lag
falco = marth pretty much one of the most even matchups in the game, its stupid to dispute it in favor of either one. they both pretty much **** each other once they start something up, either marth's grab or falco's shine. they both have a *****y edgeguard vs each other, fsmash/ftilt//charge B vs dair spikes, dtilts, marth killer into bair ect.
falco > link not as bad as many of you might think, germ and shiz were going pretty even in genesis friendlies, germ even won some too. germ also does pretty good vs other falcos, since link has many out of shield options, a good solid edgeguard, and good gimping capability. also if link just stands there, his shield will automatically block lazers (lol). if you see them trying to do low ones, or if the falcos normally do low ones, you can crouch too
falco = jiggs falco can do something off of upthrow,and once jiggs is 30% dair dair dair dair combos **** puff hard. plus sometimes you can shine off the top in levels like stadium, yoshis, and sometimes battlefield. if falco is close enough to jiggs, you can't crouch his grab. if he shuffles right then you can't grab him. his bair outranges the WOP. yeah its pretty easy to gimp him but any falco with a brain would just sit in the middle and shoot lazers, forcing you to approach. and get off the edge. uptilt kills at 120%, and its not hard to camp around with bairs and lazer you 20-30% if your already at 100% or 90%
falco = peach again if the falco actually shuffles his pressure well, you can't grab or even nair out of shield. maybe an up+b out of shield but thats only if he's close enough to you. when edgeguarding his dair beats your umbrella,at least when he's facing forward. on stadium and yoshi's, sometimes even battlefield its pretty easy to combo peach and shine her off the top.dairs can start up combos once peach is 30% or so. if he shields your dash attack its a shinebair out of shield, or dair combos. from peach's perspective peach isn't as locked up as most people are to falco's lazers though since she can float just above falco's highest short hop lazer height, and peach also has a good speed//decent sized shield for powershielding lazers. dsmash is very good, and turnips can actually gimp if they don't shine them back at you.
falco = sheik or falco>sheik sheik, along with samus is really good for powershielding lazers with her speed//large shield. falco combos the **** out of sheik though, and a missed dash attack = shinebair out of shield or shinedair -> tech chase on ground out of shield. recovering vs falco is also a *****; either die or get back on to get dtilted//dsmashed//dair combo'd//shine combo'd. also very hard to grab falco. vs a falco that actually plays against a sheik, its pretty hard to gimp them. if they DI your ftilts right, they get out of your ftilt -> fair
falco = samus // falco > samus being edgeguarded by falco is pretty tough, and the lazers lock samus up pretty bad. samus can do good with up+b out of sheld and her combos on him are decent though. if your good at powershielding, samus' speed//shield size is very good for powershielding lazers though. from falco's perspective its very frustrating to mess up shuffle pressure and get up+b'ed out of shield, and most of the time its too tricky to punish the landing lag
falco = marth pretty much one of the most even matchups in the game, its stupid to dispute it in favor of either one. they both pretty much **** each other once they start something up, either marth's grab or falco's shine. they both have a *****y edgeguard vs each other, fsmash/ftilt//charge B vs dair spikes, dtilts, marth killer into bair ect.
falco > link not as bad as many of you might think, germ and shiz were going pretty even in genesis friendlies, germ even won some too. germ also does pretty good vs other falcos, since link has many out of shield options, a good solid edgeguard, and good gimping capability. also if link just stands there, his shield will automatically block lazers (lol). if you see them trying to do low ones, or if the falcos normally do low ones, you can crouch too
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
^ and that is what i would label a "falco optimist" h!tbox, lol
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Kinda, but he said falco>link, which is a bit ridiculous.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
All I want so say is that I don't think standing still and using the Hylian shield is the answer for Link vs Falco. While it is true you may block some lasers for free, you also become a duck.
Vist
Smash Champion
just my 2 cents:
falco >> luigi, considering the current falco metagame and such..
I used to think it was more or less an even match-up, but the beastliness of falcos nowadays is pretty rough on luigi. I've only played it a few times since I came back to melee and it hasn't been pretty lol. (used to love the match-up
lol )
edit: btw I'm talking about falcos at a real high level.. otherwise I think luigi dunks on other falcos
falco >> luigi, considering the current falco metagame and such..
I used to think it was more or less an even match-up, but the beastliness of falcos nowadays is pretty rough on luigi. I've only played it a few times since I came back to melee and it hasn't been pretty lol. (used to love the match-up
lol )edit: btw I'm talking about falcos at a real high level.. otherwise I think luigi dunks on other falcos
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
G&W's shield is terrible. Zelda's KO moves poke through shields. G&W is light as hell. You need me to explain those things?
Blackshadow
Smash Ace
I find the G&W - Zelda matchup to be equal, it really does boil down to whether G&W gets enough punishes to counteract the few kicks Zelda lands in the match. In the meantime G&W is doing whatever the hell he likes to Zelda.
john!
Smash Hero
^^ which is why you duck instead of using shield, and zelda is reduced to using dsmash (or maybe dash attack)... when combined with g&w's ccing and excellent wavedash it gives him many opportunities for a grab, dtilt, or at least a fair when zelda whiffs. dtilt and grab combos kill fairly early and g&w can effectively edgeguard zelda.
but let's agree to disagree on this one until the matchup is supposed to be discussed.
but let's agree to disagree on this one until the matchup is supposed to be discussed.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You guys make it seem like Zelda only has lightning kick has a viable move.. she definitely has more options to shut down G&W.
X1-12
Smash Champion
EDTI: wtf? why does smashboards load page 2 of a thread when i click it?
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
Heyheyhey guys! Save it! The discussion is about falco!
*P*L*U*R*
Smash Hero
In slightly related news, FalKirby is mid-tier at least. SHDL is broken as ****.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
1st and most importantly: Luigi's dont dunk.just my 2 cents:
falco >> luigi, considering the current falco metagame and such..
I used to think it was more or less an even match-up, but the beastliness of falcos nowadays is pretty rough on luigi. I've only played it a few times since I came back to melee and it hasn't been pretty lol. (used to love the match-up
edit: btw I'm talking about falcos at a real high level.. otherwise I think luigi dunks on other falcos
2nd Considering the current meta game doesnt mean anything. We wouldnt use the past meta game to define a current matchup. Also you didnt explain anything other than falco is, as falco does.
The beastliness of falcon on luigi only restates your hypothesis, in which you havent supported.
Noobs should never be considered for anything other than pot size.
SuperMatt
Smash Champion
lol
white luigis cant dunk
white luigis cant dunk
Fortress | Sveet
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Luigi has horrible air momentum.
Luigi has almost no range except on ftilt
Luigi relies on wavedash length and speed to approach.
Falco has a gun that shuts down luigi completely.
Luigi has almost no range except on ftilt
Luigi relies on wavedash length and speed to approach.
Falco has a gun that shuts down luigi completely.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I maintain that all things considered Falco can do a pretty good combo game on Luigi just by launching him and hitting him onto platforms, where he must tech, and then be hit again. It's not his usual caliber 60% combo but I think he has one of the better punishment games on the floaty plumber.
Alphicans
Smash Hero
Oddly enough I was gonna bring up kirby vs falco.
When kirby gets those lasers, he can actually outcamp falco o.o.... wtf? With that said, would it still be a >>> match-up? I'd think so, but on the better end of it.
h!tboxexplo!ter
Smash Ace
lol i concur
crimson shadow explain how its hard for sheik to gimp falco? do you mean its hard for her to put him in a situation where he can be gimped? because once sheik gets falco off the stage i would describe him as one of the easiest characters to gimp in this entire game
Winston
Smash Master
Yeah, Falco can punish Luigi fine. it's not as good as Sheik, Fox, or Falcon's, but it's still dangerous enough that combined with the laser control it's easily a >> matchup.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
falco still kinda owns kirby, but kirby definitely gets a lot more viable in that matchup
definitely between falco >> kirby and falco >>> kirby
definitely between falco >> kirby and falco >>> kirby
Cosmo!
nerf zelda's dsmash
money match me for large amounts of money
- Status