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Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

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TheManaLord

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People love giving obscure character power by leaning matchups in their favor.

But this chart is supposed to be as accurate as possible, right? A lot of people in this thread fail hard. Thanks for dropping my name so much guys it's going to be a ***** when namesearch is back.

And SleepyK... I listened =)
 

TheManaLord

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Ok then, I just wish more people in the community would contribute when they can and give reasons for what they think. But maybe I'm being too demanding.

I might post once Peach rolls around.

And lol mango.
It's because the reasoning's people give are so absurdly trivial and entwined in specific situations. Matchups are mostly defined by the fundamentals. not what happens in this situation or that one. But it seems so many people cite the most specific strategies on the spot. These have no real applicability because there's no guarantee that situation will even occur in a real match. Sometimes, it's very difficult to give input beyond the common knowledge everyone knows about each character and how this game works.

I mean come on... haven't all of you played this game since it came out? AR testing anybody? Compiled any data or statistics? Work on frame advantages? Anything beyond just playing it with your friends? I mean you've all been to tournaments since the MLG days right? hmmmmmm just some casual inquiries




EDIT: *advocates 100-0 system and causes debate*
 

KAOSTAR

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It's because the reasoning's people give are so absurdly trivial and entwined in specific situations. Matchups are mostly defined by the fundamentals. not what happens in this situation or that one. But it seems so many people cite the most specific strategies on the spot. These have no real applicability because there's no guarantee that situation will even occur in a real match. Sometimes, it's very difficult to give input beyond the common knowledge everyone knows about each character and how this game works.

I mean come on... haven't all of you played this game since it came out? AR testing anybody? Compiled any data or statistics? Work on frame advantages? Anything beyond just playing it with your friends? I mean you've all been to tournaments since the MLG days right? hmmmmmm just some casual inquiries




EDIT: *advocates 100-0 system and causes debate*
When it comes to high tier battle I agree with you. Sometimes its not that cut and dry. fundamentals are important but along side viable strategies.

Battle between low tier characters are often alot easier to define, most lack approaches, any sort of decent shield pressure, setups into kill moves, etc.

Kind of 1 way streets, whoever can implement their strategy better usually wins.
 

t3h Icy

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When it comes to high tier battle I agree with you. Sometimes its not that cut and dry. fundamentals are important but along side viable strategies.

Battle between low tier characters are often alot easier to define, most lack approaches, any sort of decent shield pressure, setups into kill moves, etc.

Kind of 1 way streets, whoever can implement their strategy better usually wins.
I disagree. When all your options are poor, you become versatile because you have so many that all equally suck. Look at Yoshi for example. Almost all of his moves are ehh, but because none of them really excel, his whole moveset (barring Egg Roll, and even that can be handy sometimes) becomes useful.
 

KAOSTAR

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I never said anything about all options being terrible.

Just that they lack many options. Falco has many options, while kirby has few.

Falco will have alot more mixups than kirby who will have to resort to spacing an aerial, and thats pretty much it.

I think that having bad options and using them can be unexpected, like mindgamey, but nowhere near as good as having good safe effective options in which you are unpredictable with.

I wouldnt want to rely on m2s confusion just because alot of times ppl will be trying to l cancel and will airdodge. That only works on a mental level, the move itself gives them frame advantage. Almost every character can just bair m2 b4 he finishes the animation.

Not to mention, when you have bad options, you typically try to minimize your losses and choose the best one.

A high tier character can have multiple options that are equally as good. Nair shine and dair shine are diff but they are both good approaches.
 

Bob Money

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Jiggs should beat doc, simply shes a better character.

Docs kill moves require jiggs to make a mistake in spacing.

Docs options out of shield should rarely hit puff (WD out of shield included)

His best options of out shield don't kill puff in that matchup.

Jiggs can gimp doc at 0 if she edgehogs to rest to anything.

On a big stage it might be more close to even because of pill spacing.
Small stage its about getting dumb kills that shouldnt hit good puffs. but mistakes happen.
I wish I had some old footage of King playing the matchup.

Doc really has to call jiggs on spacing alot. Doc is very easy to combo for jiggs and doesn't need much to get him off the stage.

Simply jiggs gets doc off the stage faster than doc can kill her.

Doc does better at this matchup than most characters though.

I understand the idea of playing in the middle of stage, but doc doesnt have the spacing and kill liberty to make that SUPER effective. like a falco would etc.
 

otg

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Jiggs should beat doc, simply shes a better character.

Docs kill moves require jiggs to make a mistake in spacing.

Docs options out of shield should rarely hit puff (WD out of shield included)

His best options of out shield don't kill puff in that matchup.

Jiggs can gimp doc at 0 if she edgehogs to rest to anything.

On a big stage it might be more close to even because of pill spacing.
Small stage its about getting dumb kills that shouldnt hit good puffs. but mistakes happen.
I wish I had some old footage of King playing the matchup.

Doc really has to call jiggs on spacing alot. Doc is very easy to combo for jiggs and doesn't need much to get him off the stage.

Simply jiggs gets doc off the stage faster than doc can kill her.

Doc does better at this matchup than most characters though.

I understand the idea of playing in the middle of stage, but doc doesnt have the spacing and kill liberty to make that SUPER effective. like a falco would etc.
Real talk, I'm on board with this.
 

VGmasta

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Wow, too true and well put Bob$. I don't know why I was thainking that match up was "50-50" before....

The ball of cotton candy ***** Doc's recovery too. And Doc can edgeguard Puff with 3 b-airs, Puff still makes it back.

Jiggs > Doc
 

1048576

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Jiggs should beat doc, simply shes a better character.

Docs kill moves require jiggs to make a mistake in spacing.
I agree with a lot of this, but isn't this quotesnipe true for every character vs. Doc? His lack of range is a problem in general, not specifically vs. Jiggs.

Also, I'm prolly doing it wrong (feel free to tell me without flaming plz) but I can't kill Doc until I get him far enough offstage that he can't get back with just his doublejump. The way he recovers, he gets too low for Jiggs to intercept before the Up-B comes out, and it's really hard to trade with using any move besides nair, which Doc can just up-B again after Jiggs is knocked back. If you edgehog, he can stall with cape/doublejump, and then its really a guessing game when you decide to use your invincibility within that ~1.5 second window.
 

Niko45

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Jiggs should beat doc, simply shes a better character.

Docs kill moves require jiggs to make a mistake in spacing.

Docs options out of shield should rarely hit puff (WD out of shield included)

His best options of out shield don't kill puff in that matchup.

Jiggs can gimp doc at 0 if she edgehogs to rest to anything.

On a big stage it might be more close to even because of pill spacing.
Small stage its about getting dumb kills that shouldnt hit good puffs. but mistakes happen.
I wish I had some old footage of King playing the matchup.

Doc really has to call jiggs on spacing alot. Doc is very easy to combo for jiggs and doesn't need much to get him off the stage.

Simply jiggs gets doc off the stage faster than doc can kill her.

Doc does better at this matchup than most characters though.

I understand the idea of playing in the middle of stage, but doc doesnt have the spacing and kill liberty to make that SUPER effective. like a falco would etc.
This pretty much applies to Jiggs vs every character tho. Jiggs gets everybody off stage before they can kill her. Doc is certainly not defensively equipped to counter Jiggs (nobody is, really) but its his offensive game that is so uniquely strong against Jiggs. If Doc really can't do it, can anybody? :(
 

Mahone

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I think it's weird that jiggs = falco. This is clearly not true, Dr. PP just beat Hbox by playing the matchup right and Mango says its jiggs worst matchup. I kinda trust mango since he has the best falco and jiggs in the world and i have never found a video of him as puff vs falco since he always falco dittos.
 

*P*L*U*R*

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Really? Puff gets everyone offstage before they can kill her? Really? Jesus christ. You guys are silly. I'm with kage on this one. Don't play STUPID. There's no reason to ever attempt edgeguarding jiggs and there's no reason to attempt long ornate combos or gimps on her either. I'm pretty sure that ganon does pretty well against her with his good range and power. Also guaranteed combos out of grabs(?!). Wtf. I'm pretty sure that cf does fine against her also. I'd think that his matchup goes a lot slower though since he can't kill as well as ganon. Still, I'm sure he can outdo jiggs in the damage output section. If anything, kevin beating hungrybox at herb just proves that if you don't play like a ******, you can beat jiggs. IMO, I'd think that fox and marth are jigg's worst matchups. She's not a **** spacey. Stop playing the matchup like she is.
 

john!

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This chart reflects the top level. Don't you think it's a little pretentious to assume that the top Foxes, Falcos, Falcons, etc. are losing to Puff simply because they don't know how to play the matchup?
 

VGmasta

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I think the thing that separates Doc from other characters like Fox or Falco in this matchup is that Doc is tougher to gimp with Jiggs combos. Jiggs up-tilt to rest or up throw to rest doesn't work as well on Doc.

Doc's attack range < Jiggs attack range.
It's just that Marth's attack range >>> Doc attack range

And Doc's recovery is terrible, especially against any character that can come wayy out and disrupt his ability to get back to the edge. Any character that has an air jump can be baited into wasting their air jump. If you see Doc air jumping to recover everytime, all you gotta start doing is wait for him to air jump. After that, just hit him back out, then he's probably not coming back.

If Doc manages to somehow get below Jiggs, he might get a successful recover. But it ain't guaranteed since Jiggs n-air is more broken against Doc's recovery than it looks. Even if Jiggs only trades hits, Doc is dead if he doesn't up-B fast enough or fails to tech a wall he could be hit into. If Jiggs trades hits, she's probably making it back on the stage with +1% to the damage she had before Doc's Up-B. Jiggs edgeguarding Doc offstage is microscopic risk and gigantic reward.
 

JPOBS

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Im still not convinced people play the matchup right.

i've yet to see a fox who takes no risks and just runs away and shoots lasers while avoiding her approachs.
i've yet to see a falco literally just sit on a platform and dair her when she's below, or jump over her when she tries coming from the side, or drop down and run away, or laser->dair->run away.

these strats dont make fr exciting grand finals but they work
 

TheManaLord

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Sure characters have the capability to beat eachother. But it has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with quantifying matchup advantages and disadvantages. Kage and PLUR's posts are irrelevant and are common knowledge.


Shut the **** up with "knowing the matchup" bull****. You guys are dumb. That's entirely cyclical and when one side of the matchup "knows it" the other side is going to adapt and know how to deal with that knowledge. It's a really stupid way to summarize "I don't know what I'm talking about, you guys should know better."
 

Niko45

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Really? Puff gets everyone offstage before they can kill her? Really? Jesus christ. You guys are silly. I'm with kage on this one. Don't play STUPID. There's no reason to ever attempt edgeguarding jiggs and there's no reason to attempt long ornate combos or gimps on her either. I'm pretty sure that ganon does pretty well against her with his good range and power. Also guaranteed combos out of grabs(?!). Wtf. I'm pretty sure that cf does fine against her also. I'd think that his matchup goes a lot slower though since he can't kill as well as ganon. Still, I'm sure he can outdo jiggs in the damage output section. If anything, kevin beating hungrybox at herb just proves that if you don't play like a ******, you can beat jiggs. IMO, I'd think that fox and marth are jigg's worst matchups. She's not a **** spacey. Stop playing the matchup like she is.
Worst post ever. So Kage goes 1-1 vs Mango's puff and you're "pretty sure" Ganon kinda hits puff and wins and stuff or something. Dr. PP beats Hungrybox once (isn't his overall record vs hbox miserable?) and we're back in 2009 where everyone is stupid and doesn't know how to play puff and hurls themselves off the ledge to their doom because puff has charmed them into doing so.

I'm really scared to even ask what hbox's record against falcos is. It's really discouraging to see puff lose once and we're right back to the people don't play puff correctly nonsense.
 

Pink Reaper

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Sure characters have the capability to beat eachother. But it has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with quantifying matchup advantages and disadvantages. Kage and PLUR's posts are irrelevant and are common knowledge.


Shut the **** up with "knowing the matchup" bull****. You guys are dumb. That's entirely cyclical and when one side of the matchup "knows it" the other side is going to adapt and know how to deal with that knowledge. It's a really stupid way to summarize "I don't know what I'm talking about, you guys should know better."
youre dum.
 

Blistering Speed

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Wow, really? No-one's mentioned Marth vs Jiggs yet. That matchup is NOT even. Lets put it simply.

At a neutral standpoint, Marth has ways to keep Puff out, sure, as long as he's very precise with F Air's and jabs, but if he hits Puff, who cares, it's the one solitary hit. Puff on the other hand, due to B Air and aerial mobility doesn't have to commit like Marth does and due to the lower punishment, can afford more mistakes. On the other hand, if Puff gets a hit it's likely death, either from Jiggs getting Marth off stage and general moveset ****** his horizontally limited recovery/edgehog resting or getting a rest off.

Assuming the point that Marth gets Jiggs to kill percent anyway, there's nothing safe to rely on. With others, Marth compensates for this with his excellent edgeguarding, but this is obsolete against Jiggs. So Marth is now forced to commit to a dangerous move like F Smash, something which if missed (very easy with Puff's mobility) or shielded means aforestated ridiculously costly punishment.

It's as simple as that, Jiggs punishes and kills far far easier in the matchup. It becomes a spacing war between Puff's B Air and a few or Marth's low cooldown range moves, but the Marth can afford far far less mistakes.
 

VGmasta

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Im still not convinced people play the matchup right.

i've yet to see a fox who takes no risks and just runs away and shoots lasers while avoiding her approachs.
i've yet to see a falco literally just sit on a platform and dair her when she's below, or jump over her when she tries coming from the side, or drop down and run away, or laser->dair->run away.

these strats dont make fr exciting grand finals but they work
I'm bet camping Jiggs like that is a lot harder than it sounds.
 

TheManaLord

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@Blistering speed

It's more of a fundamental fail on the account of how they format the chart. The don't want to denote the advantage that jiggs has because ">" is to extreme. So they fall back on inaccuracy and just round it.
 

JPOBS

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I'm bet camping Jiggs like that is a lot harder than it sounds.
everything is harder than it sounds.

that wasnt my point though. My point was that literally no top player has even tried/attempted to stick exclusively to either strategy and since we've never seen it, we assume it 'doesnt work" because "it if worked, people would do it".

Its sad however that people refuse to play this way because its "boring" or too much like brawl or whatever the case may be.

My only point is that jiggs' main strength is that her ridiculous punish game allows her to beat pretty much everyone and kill at literally any time and for some characters, you literally cant even do basic things like GRAB her because you die for it. so when you fight jiggs, you have to absolutely minimize her chance's to punish you, while simultaneously maximizing damage output.

the two strategies i've listed are probably the safest way of minimizing punish/maximizing damage output vs jiggs in the entire game and yet no one does it. people always get 'bored' or cocky and eventually run in and try to do something then get rested.

the fox one is particularly good because fox is fast enough to almost literally never get hit by puff if he's smart. She can only either come at him from an even plane in which case he just jumps over her because her vertical acceleration is trash and runs to the other side and shoots more lasers. or she tries to space aerials over his head which he can just run under and continue shooting lasers. all this involves very very little risk on the fox's part. eventually she'll be high enough that even a simple nair will kill her

the only thing is, no one does this for stupid arbitrary reasons i dont know so meh
 

Blackshadow

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I think the problem with Jiggs is that there is basically one effective way to fight her. Hardcore camping and staying "overly" safe has always been an option for Fox and Falco, but they've never needed to be that gay to beat other characters. Jiggs FORCES Fox and Falco to bring out this extremely effective but boring strategy JUST TO COMPETE! Granted, not including mindgames Fox still has the advantage when he plays this way (Fox > Jiggs) but the fact that she can force Fox to play a certain way or die means her player has the advantage when it comes to predicting because Fox can't afford to play a different style. Even the boring factor works against the Fox player psychologically.

I think realistically it's Fox = Jiggs, but since this chart doesn't include the player it's still Fox > Jiggs.
 

*P*L*U*R*

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Worst post ever. So Kage goes 1-1 vs Mango's puff and you're "pretty sure" Ganon kinda hits puff and wins and stuff or something. Dr. PP beats Hungrybox once (isn't his overall record vs hbox miserable?) and we're back in 2009 where everyone is stupid and doesn't know how to play puff and hurls themselves off the ledge to their doom because puff has charmed them into doing so.

I'm really scared to even ask what hbox's record against falcos is. It's really discouraging to see puff lose once and we're right back to the people don't play puff correctly nonsense.
I'm pretty sure that I didn't say ganon wins. Nor did I say that falco beats puff lol. I actually think that puff is falco's worst matchup.

You guys make it seem like jigglypuff is Ivan Ooze's testicle or something. Not even remotely close.
 

1048576

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@Blistering speed

It's more of a fundamental fail on the account of how they format the chart. The don't want to denote the advantage that jiggs has because ">" is to extreme. So they fall back on inaccuracy and just round it.
Why is every other post you make *****ing about the chart? You do realize no matchup is perfectly even except for dittos right? Thus, = is meaningless unless you take it to mean "close to even."
 

Fletch

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Stuff about camping Jiggs
I really really don't get why everyone always repeats this. You really think it's really easy to just run and camp perfectly with Fox's lasers and NEVER get hit? You really think all these top players that are losing to Jiggs wouldn't try something that apparently moves the matchup in their favor, and that they actually enjoy missing out on top prize money because they're playing the match the "honorable" way? If this was the way to beat Jiggs, surely one decent space animal would have picked this up by now, and they'd be beasting on all these top Jiggs players in every tournament in the country. If you really think players are refusing to stoop to a "gay" tactic to win, then we have a really scrubby community.
 

h!tboxexplo!ter

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@Blistering speed

It's more of a fundamental fail on the account of how they format the chart. The don't want to denote the advantage that jiggs has because ">" is to extreme. So they fall back on inaccuracy and just round it.
wtf ever happened to ?
you literally cant even do basic things like GRAB her because you die for it
thats really sheiks deal. i know some characters like fox can grab because she cant duck under it. maybe a few other characters have the problem, but thats really the deal breaker for sheik
 

Mahone

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Ya, dude. I think that jiggs has at least a 90-10 advantage on every character. I would never play her though because shes totally gay, and thats the only reason there are only 2 jiggs players that ever place well (darc too sometimes). If us normal people played her we could totally **** everyone, because no move in the game beats bair and all she has to do is hit down-b and kill you, freakin *****. I dont want melee to be brawl though, so ill play my manly falcon and lose every game, but i definately had more fun than you.

On a more serious note, I think Dr.PP beating Hbox is significant, because while it is true that Hbox's record against Dr.PP is total ****. Dr.PP never really changed the flaws in his game until their last set. He kept making the same mistakes such as trying to kill with fsmash and downsmash and being too aggresive in general. At herb 3 he only killed with dtilts and bairs and stayed in the center of the stage and controlled hbox with lazers. You guys talk as if playing strategic is less fun, but i always felt that playing "campy" against jiggs and trying not to make any mistakes in approaches makes the game more interesting because you actually have to think instead of techskill people to death.

The reason that the jiggs numbers are so hard to do is because if your opponent doesnt know how to fight you then its really easy to **** them. If im playing a falcon or falco thats doesnt know the matchup as well as i do than i can easily 3 stock them because its so easy to land rests and gimps. On the other hand if i play a falcon or falco that knows the matchup better than me, its almost impossible for me to win. So the numbers change drastically depending on how good your opponent is. Of course this matchup chart is much more useful if we try to get the numbers to represent how the matchup is at the highest level, so when you four stock your friend's secondary falco with your jiggs that you don't ever play, you havent proved anything.

I think its a common misconception that camping is the answer to jiggs. There is no player right now that can camp perfectly against jiggs for 8 minutes so its not worth talking about. Realistically, the "camping" that works is like what Dr.PP did against hungrybox, which is basically just play smart and dont go near the edge ever unless you have to.

tl;dr: Stop *****ing about jiggs, shes not broken, you guys gave mango **** until he showed he can **** with everyone and now you're doing the same thing to hungrybox. LEARN THE MATCHUP!!!
 

JPOBS

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JPOBS figured it out! He's a genius! Just like everyone else who says the same ****. Sorry man.
Its not about figuring it out.

Im just pointing out that the current "anti jiggs" metagame and its various derivatives SUCKS and gets completely dominated by the current jiggs players.

The only possible solution is to try a strategem which has yet to be explored fully. Because at this point, absolutely everything people actually try just gets beat out anyway.

Just because its a new idea doesnt mean its a bad one.

I really really don't get why everyone always repeats this. You really think it's really easy to just run and camp perfectly with Fox's lasers and NEVER get hit? You really think all these top players that are losing to Jiggs wouldn't try something that apparently moves the matchup in their favor, and that they actually enjoy missing out on top prize money because they're playing the match the "honorable" way? If this was the way to beat Jiggs, surely one decent space animal would have picked this up by now, and they'd be beasting on all these top Jiggs players in every tournament in the country. If you really think players are refusing to stoop to a "gay" tactic to win, then we have a really scrubby community.
Its not about them not playing horonably, and nor is it about this tactic being "easy". in fact this tactic is very difficult and you obviously wotn win easily with it.

however, the FACT OF THE MATTER is that no notable fox has stright up REFUSED to do anything but shoot lasers and only attack when it is 100% garunteed safe. PERIOD. the strategy simply HAS NOT BEEN UTILIZED YET.

im not even saying "this strategy would beat good jiggs 100%"
what i am saying is "our current ways of fighting jiggs are failing, we need to do something different"
 

KAOSTAR

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I think that ppl havent really gone with the Im going to use all 8 minutes of this clock and guarantee a win by never approaching.

Ive seen effective camping, but so far nobody has really really gone to the grind. Everybody approaches well b4 a kill is 100.

Its not fun lol. I just really havent seen it. I think everyone knows how to play the matchup, fox vs ijggs but nobody takes the 100% safe route or at least tried, never approach only punish jiggz approaches.
 

t3h Icy

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Okay Jigglypuff vs Doc.

Pills are not so bad, since you can cancel them with aerials, but it does force you to attack, dodge or get hit, so it does help Doc slightly. Generally, Jigglypuff just wants to cancel them out because if she's above Doc (by jumping over the pills), she can get Uaired and occasionally comboed from it. Jigglypuff has range over Doc with the disjointed Bair, which helps, but Doc is smaller than many characters and he has a certain weight where he's difficult to combo, as compared to Fox and Falco.

Realistically, Jigglypuff should be in the air most of the time, but at about short hop height. on the ground, Jigglypuff can get Smashes, but Bair works just as well, and she can't do a whole lot out of grabs, so the risk of Doc's FSmash isn't really worth it. Doc should shuffle around on the ground trying to get attacks in.

Generally though, Doc's recovery is slow and exploitable, so if Doc is a decent distance from the stage, Jigglypuff should be able to kill him using Bairs or Nairs to keep him from recovering. While Doc can kill out of occasional FSmashes and Fairs, both have a fair amount of starting lag and difficult to land on Jigglypuff. Jigglypuff is also more likely to survive Fair and FSmash (stage dependent) than Doc will once he's off the stage.

Jigglypuff > Doc

Also the whole Jigglypuff is so broken pseudo-meme (thanks Scar) is really dumb and shows how little some people really know about strategy. Jigglypuff is a unique character and typical gameplay styles aren't as effective. Jigglypuff's Bair is a all-round great aerial and she can punish with Rest which is a stock in most cases. You have to play carefully and not go for big moves or risks. Hit for hit, Jigglypuff sucks, but if you make a dumb mistake and Jigglypuff punishes with Bair or Rest, you lose a large portion of your advantage over her.

Two key things about fighting Jigglypuff:

1) Play simplistically. Not meaning don't be technical, but don't be overly flashy and don't use laggy moves. With Fox for example, if you're running all over the place and going for Smashes, Jigglypuff can punish mistakes. If instead you use Uair, Bair, Nair and when it's safe USmash in combination with Laser spamming, Jigglypuff is forced to approach and again, hit for hit, you'll be getting more.

2) Don't edgeguard Jigglypuff, especially with Fox and Falco. Edgeguarding Jigglypuff is dumb. She has multiple jumps, rising Pound, and can retaliate with Bair which will result in you getting gimped when edgeguarding. Instead, give yourself some distance and use projectiles, such as Lasers, Needles and disjointed hitboxs. You will very rarely kill Jigglypuff from the bottom and the risk for some extra damage isn't worth it if you might lose a stock.

Again, I think DrPP vs HBox is a prime example of playing properly. Hungrybox plays really gay so DrPP played gay back. He never edgeguarded, he used quick moves instead of FSmash. He Lasered a lot, and stayed away from Hungrybox's grab range as much as possible. The amount of gimps and Rests were reduced significantly, and a Restless (hurr) Jigglypuff isn't a great character.

I think JMan vs Hungrybox will be a great example if it ever happens.

It's amusing that most Melee diehards are extremely arrogant and disrespectful towards the Brawl community, yet Brawl players seem to be more intelligent in playing as they learn how to deal with gay tactics and they don't do stupid things. Sure, if you play gay in Melee, it's not as exciting, but I'd imagine the goal in tournaments for most players is to win.

And this chart is about winning, not looking flashy.
 
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