Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[MarsFool!]

internet blew up >_>

jiggs eh?

jiggs>fox in tournament
jiggs <fox on paper

 

[TheManaLord]

jiggs has no bad matchups. neither does falco

 

[Niko45]

jiggs has no bad matchups. neither does falco

Falco has quite a bunch of iffy matchups, even if they are too debatable to really be considered "bad." There are a bunch of them.

Jiggs, Sheik, Marth, Peach, ICs

 

[Nintendude]

I think all of those are, at worst, a pretty negligible disadvantage. I don't know about Jiggs yet. I'll have to see how HBox fights back against PP the next time they meet.

 

[TheManaLord]

falco's only bad matchup that could agree with is jiggs. but again, with matchups like that who have small variances of advantage they cannot properly displayed with this charts format. so it's not really accurate anyways.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

IMHO, Kage was a member of the 300 in a past life.

More like a direct descendant of all 300



ya no... cause homosexuality and group orgies were commonplace then...

 

[VGmasta]

Jiggs > Ganon agreed
Jiggs = Doc agreed

Spoiler

But HungryBox > Doc

 

[KAOSTAR]

IMHO, Kage was a member of the 300 in a past life.

Im pretty sure he still is

 

[SleepyK]

HEY GUYS CROUCHING V ZELDA AS GNW MEANS SHE CAN'T HIT YOU WITH HER FAIR AND BAIR
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DELAY FAIR AND BAIR AND HIT REALLY LOW WITH IT RIGHT GUYSE LOL
ALSO CCING TOTALLY DEFEATS HER DSMASH AT MID PERCENTS WHEN YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO USE IT V GNW NOT EARLY ON WHEN HE CAN CC IT LOLO

also zelda's dash attack also defeats gnw's cc at decent percents.

you guys seem to be completely discounting the strategy of carefully spaced bair/fairs. are we to assume all zeldas just spam bair/fair high all the time then get hit?
gnw's lightshield doesn't last very long vs fair/bair and there is enough shieldhitstun for you to be too far away against a properly spaced fair/bair.

 

[TheManaLord]

they're dumb fadists, don't reason with them sleepyk

 

[x After Dawn x]

doc > jiggs

 

[Roneblaster]

jiggs has no bad matchups. neither does falco

this, a few other characters too, depending on your definition of bad

also, sveet it wasnt considered gay, by the people who did it, back then. its just how things were.

jiggs > Falcon
maybe >>

seriously = ?

GTFO

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

Falco has quite a bunch of iffy matchups, even if they are too debatable to really be considered "bad." There are a bunch of them.

Jiggs, Sheik, Marth, Peach, ICs

this is true
i think there are three characters with the best overall matchups: fox, puff, and sheik
edit: and maybe falco

 

[john!]

Clearly my opinion isn't respected in this thread... have fun forming a chart based on the opinions of the same small group of non professional players. It's sure to turn out accurate and unbiased.

 

[joeplicate]

that's a sick avatar btw

i really appreciate it

 

[john!]

thanks. lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

also, sveet it wasnt considered gay, by the people who did it, back then. its just how things were.

i said homosexual, not gay. homosexual is an objective term to mean sexual attraction between two members of the same gender.

 

[t3h Icy]

Clearly my opinion isn't respected in this thread... have fun forming a chart based on the opinions of the same small group of non professional players. It's sure to turn out accurate and unbiased.

I don't see why you're whining. You haven't said anything about match-ups since late March, so you haven't even expressed an opinion for people to ignore.

Anywho, Jigglypuff > Falcon, Jigglypuff >> DK? What do you guys think?

 

[TheManaLord]

Both are agreeable.

I'm also saying Jiggs > Doc. Anything suggesting they're even is pure theory.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I don't see why you're whining. You haven't said anything about match-ups since late March, so you haven't even expressed an opinion for people to ignore.

Anywho, Jigglypuff > Falcon, Jigglypuff >> DK? What do you guys think?

Is jiggz falcon really that close? I thought it would be closer to jiggz>>falcon

I guess its prob not actually that bad

also I can agree with jiggz >>DK

Clearly my opinion isn't respected in this thread... have fun forming a chart based on the opinions of the same small group of non professional players. It's sure to turn out accurate and unbiased.

So does having your opinion make this chart accurate and created by a much more diverse and large group of professionals?

 

[otg]

Both are agreeable.

I'm also saying Jiggs > Doc. Anything suggesting they're even is pure theory.

Please mana, continue to talk about matchups you know nothing about.

 

[john!]

So does having your opinion make this chart accurate and created by a much more diverse and large group of professionals?

...no... I just wish that infrequent contributors to this thread weren't disparaged or ignored, while statements like this

Both are agreeable.

I'm also saying Jiggs > Doc. Anything suggesting they're even is pure theory.

are taken at face value without any proof, just because manalord posts a lot in this thread. It's a huge double standard. This is turning into a chart expressing the opinions of a few frequent posters who all only listen to each other, some of whom aren't even near pro level. I'm not saying Icy is doing a bad job, I'm just questioning the reliability of this chart due to the lack of community participation... and with this elitist sort of atmosphere, I don't think you're going to get much more participation.

 

[Dr_Strangelove]

Who mains doc here? I've never really played as him before, but I've been seeing around in random threads that doc > jiggs. Is this true? If so, please explain the advantages he has. All I know is, if puff misses a rest she is dead, but if doc is off the stage he might as well just drop his controller.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falco has quite a bunch of iffy matchups, even if they are too debatable to really be considered "bad." There are a bunch of them.

Jiggs, Sheik, Marth, Peach, ICs

This is different than the other 3-4 top tiers... how?

 

[t3h Icy]

are taken at face value without any proof, just because manalord posts a lot in this thread.

Who said I took that into heavy consideration?

 

[otg]

Who mains doc here? I've never really played as him before, but I've been seeing around in random threads that doc > jiggs. Is this true? If so, please explain the advantages he has. All I know is, if puff misses a rest she is dead, but if doc is off the stage he might as well just drop his controller.

It's not Doc > Jiggs. It's even or slight jiggs advantage. Mango hates it, Darc thinks its even, who knows about hbox. She can cut through pills relatively easy (who can't) and edgeguard him pretty freely (who can't, but in all fairness he can defend himself somewhat on recovery), but she has to approach him and as long as Doc plays the middle of the stage, pill camps and pokes it's really annoying for her.

Dogy claims its 60:40 Doc and DJN swears its Jiggs worst matchup but.... as much as I love those dudes they're both characters to say the least.

 

[x After Dawn x]

so you're going to disregard dogy and DJN's opinions because they're "characters" but not mango?

 

[otg]

I know both of them personally, they are good friends. They are both people who have very ... strange opinions on matchups (in particular DJ), and Dogy is just biased as **** and doesn't really play great people. I'm sure one of them will come in here and give me some bull****, but I just call it like I see it.

I was just pointing out the top jiggs opinions because you know, they are the best and all, they probably have good opinions on the matchup. Have Shroomed or waffles ever even talked about the jiggs matchup? No, and frankly I don't even know if they've even gotten a chance to play Hbox/Mango's jiggs or Darc. I only brought up dogy and dj because I know them and their opinions.

 

[x After Dawn x]

mango thinks marth is the best character in the game. he also apparently can't pass early high school math.

let's find other stuff about other people so we can disregard their opinions too, shall we?

 

[JPOBS]

doc vs jiggs is one of those matchups where neither character can really do much of anything useful/deadly to the other and because of that its extremly annoying to play as one of them in the matchup. but in the end jiggs wins by virtue of just being a better character and having some key advatages like better edgeguarding when she eventually lands a solid hit to take him off stage.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Shroomed almost beat Hungrybox in pools but tried to shieldgrab a Nair and got Rested. He then lost game 3.

This has nothing to do with anything, really, I'm just pointing out that WC Docs have, at some point, played good Jigglypuffs.

 

[t3h Icy]

I'd lean on Doc = Jigglypuff. I'll explain with some depth when I can.

 

[otg]

mango thinks marth is the best character in the game. he also apparently can't pass early high school math.

let's find other stuff about other people so we can disregard their opinions too, shall we?

You aren't listening to me here. I'm not basing this off of their personalities as people, I'm basing it off their skewed *** opinions of the game. Seriously, meet DJ irl and try to take some of the **** he says about matchups serioulsy.

 

[x After Dawn x]

like I said, last time I checked, mango thinks marth is the best character in the game.

if that's not skewed, I don't know what is.

 

[otg]

I would just call that trollin.

 

[x After Dawn x]

the sad thing is that I don't think he was. =/ but I could be wrong, it is mango.

 

[KAOSTAR]

like I said, last time I checked, mango thinks marth is the best character in the game.

if that's not skewed, I don't know what is.

mango thinks marth is the best character in the game. he also apparently can't pass early high school math.

Probably just fuxxin wit m2k. Cuz he kept losing.

and I believe mango has passed algebra now
let's find other stuff about other people so we can disregard their opinions too, shall we?

...no... I just wish that infrequent contributors to this thread weren't disparaged or ignored, while statements like this



are taken at face value without any proof, just because manalord posts a lot in this thread. It's a huge double standard. This is turning into a chart expressing the opinions of a few frequent posters who all only listen to each other, some of whom aren't even near pro level. I'm not saying Icy is doing a bad job, I'm just questioning the reliability of this chart due to the lack of community participation... and with this elitist sort of atmosphere, I don't think you're going to get much more participation.

Just because TML said it doesnt mean that its true, or that ppl are considering it heavily.

I can say, I at least read his posts lol, but he gets quite a bit of opposition in this thread as well. and like everybody else, he knows some matchups better than others.

Usually its the longer analysis that get the most responses, or the most absurd. If you disagree then make it known, but make sure you have some kind of reasoning to back it up other than youtube videos(thats a last resort lol).

 

[john!]

Ok then, I just wish more people in the community would contribute when they can and give reasons for what they think. But maybe I'm being too demanding.

I might post once Peach rolls around.

And lol mango.

 

[Niko45]

This is different than the other 3-4 top tiers... how?

Well, I'm not sure how you got the impression that I was comparing Falco to other characters, but the point I was trying to make is that even tho you can technically say "falco has no bad matchups," I find that misleading when the character has so many questionable matchups that are just called even at the end of the day because there isn't agreement on them. And honestly, the ICs and jiggs beat Falco imo but I guess people aren't willing to go that far yet. For example, in my opinion, Sheik and Falco both lose to Jiggs and ICs by comparable margins. Yet Sheik struggles with Fox while ****** Marth and Falco goes even with Marth and debatably beats Fox. My point is that even tho sheik's matchups are more volatile they aren't necessarily worse overall (unless you really value moderate matchups in a character, which you might).

But just to address what you're saying I would say yes, the dynamics for the the different top tier's matchups are quite different from each other.

 

[SleepyK]

I know both of them personally, they are good friends. They are both people who have very ... strange opinions on matchups (in particular DJ), and Dogy is just biased as **** and doesn't really play great people. I'm sure one of them will come in here and give me some bull****, but I just call it like I see it.

I was just pointing out the top jiggs opinions because you know, they are the best and all, they probably have good opinions on the matchup. Have Shroomed or waffles ever even talked about the jiggs matchup? No, and frankly I don't even know if they've even gotten a chance to play Hbox/Mango's jiggs or Darc. I only brought up dogy and dj because I know them and their opinions.

ya he plays no one good. no one he beat at herb 3 was good
the radovich bros are so bad, they beat darkrain.

also i guess my gnw points are being ignored...?