Match up Export #15: R.O.B| Complete.....almost....

[TheMike]

Some people on the first page gave some great arguments. I think it's ROB advantage because he has a great off stage game and close range range, good ground and aerial game and amazing attacks for spacing. ROB doesn't have a solid advantage, and that's the definition of a 55-45 matchup according to Praxis.

I know everything Fox can do and ROB can avoid. He just can't avoid being juggled. I mean, it's hard to avoid. But he can do every other thing he wants to, such as approaching.

 

[Conviction]

Some people on the first page gave some great arguments. I think it's ROB advantage because he has a great off stage game and close range range, good ground and aerial game and amazing attacks for spacing. ROB doesn't have a solid advantage, and that's the definition of a 55-45 matchup according to Praxis.

I know everything Fox can do and ROB can avoid. He just can't avoid being juggled. I mean, it's hard to avoid. But he can do every other thing he wants to, such as approaching.

I respect ROBs ground game. I would agree to 50-50 if it really comes down to it but I just don't see ROBs advantages.

 

[TheMike]

I can agree with 50-50, too. I just don't think Fox has the advantage, even a small one.

 

[Conviction]

Aight 50-50 it is. Anyone in disagreement?

 

[C.R.Z]

im fine with that, just means i get to play more robs lol

 

[Conviction]

Ok now on to the Stage Discussion part.

 

[Mister Eric]

Aight 50-50 it is. Anyone in disagreement?

I agree. but if it were to lead in anyone's favor, I'd say Fox's

 

[Conviction]

Hmmm I would like to change that to 55-45......hmm I wonder if I will get disapprovements from other ROBs.

 

[TheMike]

I honestly think 50-50 is fine.

 

[Conviction]

it stays 50-50

 

[KillerJawz]

Just out of pure interest, does Fox's pivot grab beat R.O.B's in terms of range?

 

[Conviction]

Yea Fox's pivot grab range is very good.

It also lingers during most of the slide.

 

[TheMike]

I don't know about Fox's pivot grab, but ROB's is pretty good in terms of range. Its only problem is the frame data. Grab only on frame 10, and if it's missed, it only ends on frame 35. Therefore, it sucks. It isn't worth using it.

 

[Conviction]

Oh forreal ROB's grab is that slow? We can Shine>Nair>JJC>Shine your shield. Fox has the fastest pivot grab.

(Wait is that only for pivot grab for ROB?)

 

[Tin Man]

fox counters rob 60-40 fox favor (somewhere there)

 

[Conviction]

I've been trying to say that ^

 

[TheMike]

Alright, 55-45 Fox.

 

[Adamated]

Fox Is DEFINITELY NOT a counter to ROB. He may have a slight advantage but is in no way a counter. I say that 55-45 fox is about perfect (personally I have trouble with ROB and I think its 45-55 in robs favor for me but meh...) There's just soo much depth to ROB and what he can do (not that fox doesnt have depth...) and I dont think that the foxes here quite get that but whatev, I'm just a scrub right?

I'll have some vids up soon

 

[Conviction]

I'm tired of changing the verdict....

 

[TheMike]

50-50 sounds the best ratio for this matchup in my opinion. I vote for it, but I won't mind if it's decided for 55-45 Fox.

 

[Conviction]

Ok we need to vote then...how do you set up Polls?

 

[TheMike]

Be a moderator or purchase a Premium account. As I'm Premium, I can set up a poll, but only in threads I've started. Ask the Fox Boards' moderator. He can do so if I recall correctly.

 

[Adamated]

Okay So I still think that with Robs lingering hitboxes and ledgegame (and that I'm not good) that this is 45-55 ROB BUT I do see foxes adv that i didnt know about so I'll say 50:50

Also Here are some Vids from a long time ago. Its me vs a dude called Jasman who is/was a good ROB i dunno if he still plays or not.

1. How ROB should play and how Fox should not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoysNQkaxdM

2. How Fox should play and how ROB should not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU9po3qLMY4

They are both wifi so forgive the slow reactionness lol

 

[Mister Eric]

I don't know about Fox's pivot grab, but ROB's is pretty good in terms of range. Its only problem is the frame data. Grab only on frame 10, and if it's missed, it only ends on frame 35. Therefore, it sucks. It isn't worth using it.

beep that, I pivot grab all the time and it pays off tremendously in my book.
just don't be reckless with them.

But Fox's is betteh.

 

[TheMike]

Despite having a good range, I don't think it's worth using Pivot Grab for being so slow. .-.

 

[Conviction]

We don't use Wifi in MUs.....

Ok Ill ask Daddy Sauce to put up a poll. One thing though won't outsiders come and mess it up.... hmmm i don't think it's a good as I thought.


EDIT: If you play Fox on wifi you're gonna end up feeling like he is somewhere below Yoshi XD, anyways wifi=/=how MUs should be played

 

[Asce]

I agree with the 50:50 MU ratio since i dont see the poll up yet. If you need credibility I play Glassjoe's (if thats his name here) Rob pretty often. Fox can force robs approach and outcamps him, as well as juggles Rob to hell so i agree with that. In addition Rob has muchhh better spacing which is exactly why Fox should force the approach and not approach himself.

Battlefield is a good pick for Fox because it greatly helps the juggling game that he has. Im not too sure about other stages though. Also, before I forget, Rob will punish very well with Bairs lingering hitbox if Fox tries to Airdoge to recover or illusion. commonly its Bair>Ftilt to set up an edgeguard wall so be careful of his long reach, and keep him towards the edge of the stage rather than you on the edge. Being in the middle on the ground is the best position for both characters so thats what the fight will revolve around in terms of character positioning.

Once again, 50:50

 

[Adamated]

EDIT: If you play Fox on wifi you're gonna end up feeling like he is somewhere below Yoshi XD, anyways wifi=/=how MUs should be played

Samboner says Hi.

 

[Conviction]

Ohhhh I'm sorry. Isn't he the only Fox outta Wifi to make it somewhere....oh wait he is.

Outlier.
*Ball is back in Adamated's Court*

 

[Adamated]

Right cuz of all the PRO foxes out there.... >.>

lol (theres probably more than i think but i dont know any other foxes who have got 2nd at a big tourney) ((and i dont follow rookie very closely/ at all))

Inlier
*Ball was flattened, popped (in that order), burnt and frozen then mailed back to iblis 2-4 weeks later*

 

[Conviction]

*Waits for the ball to be mailed*

I know about Zeton,Rookie,or TKD, but I know me and Light started on Wifi, but other that....

wait this is the MU thread lol

ROBS come back we need to finish this stage portion T.T

 

[Spin]

what shall we discuss about stages?

 

[Conviction]

What stages should Fox go where should ROB go.

 

[Adamated]

fox should pick halberd (lol), BF or YI brawl.
Halberd: low ceiling

Battlefield: Well, mainly cuz thats one of our best stages but also because of the cover that we get from the platforms. As i'm sure you know that most of robs projectile game is at a horizontal or lower angle. Now they have some options upward but we all know its stronger downward. and usmash on top level = win

Yoshi's Island (brawl): Its along the same lines as BF but here there is one giant tilting barrier for us. I dont know if there are any special techs here for rob but if not it would be great for us.

Fox Bans: Most Def ban japes if it's legal in the tourney, if its not legal then I would personally ban um..... idk lol

 

[Conviction]

What about FD...I think Fox would go there.

 

[Spin]

if i were to counter pick a Fox, i would more than likely take him to Frigate. high ceiling, and not a lot on the sides. the first transformation is great for us because the right ledge has no edge, so its pretty easy to guard, and since Fox's recovery isn't that great (sorry) and ours is really good, it affects ROB little, but it can be a ***** for Fox. also if we can get an upsmash on the platform, it kills rather early. now i havent been playing competitively for a while, but that is what i would do.

and as for FD, i think that stage is pretty neutral, you all can rack up the damage with the blaster, but have range too, so i don't really think there is an advantage either way. and if you camp, we will just approach so you can't any more

i have to go for now though, i will be back later to discuss more

 

[TheMike]

Battlefield: Well, mainly cuz thats one of our best stages but also because of the cover that we get from the platforms. As i'm sure you know that most of robs projectile game is at a horizontal or lower angle. Now they have some options upward but we all know its stronger downward. and usmash on top level = win

Battlefield is a good stage for ROB, seriously. Its platforms help him avoid some juggles from Fox, which is one of the things that ROB should avoid on this matchup. Differently from Final Destination, where there aren't any platforms and Fox can easily juggle. So yeah Iblis, Final Destination is a good stage for Fox on this matchup.

high ceiling

Frigate's ceiling is low. However, it's a good stage for ROB against Fox, but not the best, exactly because of that low ceiling. Therefore, I'd rather taking Fox to Castle Siege. On the first transformation, ROB can space well by using angled Ftilts. And its ledge isn't very good for Fox. On the second transformation, ROB's lasers can go through the platforms, allowing him to camp well even with Fox reflecting it(ROB needs to shoot angled lasers so as for it not to be reflected on his direction). And on the third transformation ROB's, pretty good off stage.

 

[Spin]

I always thought the ceilings were high on frigate... But w/e sorry for that. It's still a very good rob stage. You are a lot better at explaining it. Anyways I also like PS1 for ROB in the neutral area as well. Long to camp, and still hve the platforms/transformations to get out of juggles. I try to always go here if it is a neutral stage.

Mike please correct me if I'm wrong. you>me.

 

[Conviction]

Fox's juggling game increases with the platforms (ACing the plats.)

 

[TheMike]

I always thought the ceilings were high on frigate... But w/e sorry for that. It's still a very good rob stage. You are a lot better at explaining it. Anyways I also like PS1 for ROB in the neutral area as well. Long to camp, and still hve the platforms/transformations to get out of juggles. I try to always go here if it is a neutral stage.

Mike please correct me if I'm wrong. you>me.

PS1 might be good as well because its ledge can bother Fox when he's recoverying sometimes. However, the ceiling is lower than on stages such as Final Destination and Battlefield if I recall correctly, allowing Fox's Usmash to kill earlier. But yeah, ROB's camping game is good, especially on some transformations like the water and fire ones.

Fox's juggling game increases with the platforms (ACing the plats.)

Battlefield's platforms help ROB more than Fox, in my opinion.