Match-Up Export #2: Snake | Creating Summary

[Blacknight99923]

Read it a bit closer and you'll see I said that his feet have the priority for that move and the rest of his body has very little priority.

Cooking the grenade is holding the grenade a bit longer instead of just throwing it, and controller port can decide who blows up when a grenade is around and Snake is holding you. So that's why I guessed at that one.

No someone had talked about Snake just punishing an edgeguard approach with a b-air. All I was saying is there are other ways to edgeguard him aside from just going out there and potentially getting beaten in the air.

If stale Fox's u-smash kills at about 110%, so fresh should be from 90%-100%. Snake u-tilt stale kills at about 120% which means he probably kills Fox with it at about 100%-110% fresh. It has range and if they are at kill % they could easily bait a Snake into doing u-tilt and then get him into a juggling situation with a u-smash.(I tested this on FD)

derp do you know anything about priority?

Originally Posted by Ankoku View Post (note I suck at this quoting stuff)
Priority is priority. There are a bunch of rules by which attacks follow for clashing. By the way, there are certain attacks that break rules regarding clashes, etc.

If the difference is greater than 10%, the weaker attack will clash cancel while the stronger attack will continue on.
If the difference is less than 10%, both attacks will clash cancel.
If two attacks collide but no collision boxes (or hurtboxes) are touched, both attacks will clash cancel.

Special attacks (B moves) can clash with special attacks, aerials, and ground attacks.
Ground attacks can clash with special attacks and ground attacks.
Aerials can only clash with special attacks.

Note that there are exceptions to this set of rules.

Non-interactive hitboxes - Will never clash and only interacts with collision boxes. Examples: Lasers, PK Thunder, Sheik's needles, Meta Knight's aerials

Aerial special clashes - Clashes that happen with one or more characters in the air will not cancel the attack of the character(s) in the air. The hitboxes in particular that clashed are negated as far as interaction between the two characters, though. Examples: Mach Tornado

Special-class hitboxes - Certain normal attacks have the same clashing properties as special attacks. Examples: Olimar usmash, Meta Knight dash attack




so in the end your both wrong assuming you hit snakes hurt box his bair won't touch you, since your both using aerial attacks, although the person I am quoting is more wrong because snakes bair does a bit of damage so more priority.

Actually really whats more important than priority is how fast your attacks come out and their range. given that you should be attacking from below and not behind it shouldn't be an issue to begin with.
THE MORE YOU KNOW.



anyway fox's up smash won't kill snake till like 120-130 if your opponent has decent DI and snakes uptilt will probably kill you fresh at like 100% (as in you get hit at 100% you die at 112-3%)



and that snake in the match iblis showed didn't have decent knowledge of his character or wasn't playing seriously, how that can be shown as a match for demonstrating the match up I have no idea.

 

[smashkng]

It would let him recover high, but since Snake's never want to be in the air, and Foxs like to juggle Snakes, that seems like a bad idea.

But it's still better recovering high and just risk juggling than recovering low because you don't risk gimps at all, which is worse than juggling and just taking a bit of damage. That's how good Snakes will recover unless you're far enough for the Snake to safely get down without using the Cypher.

If stale Fox's u-smash kills at about 110%, so fresh should be from 90%-100%. Snake u-tilt stale kills at about 120% which means he probably kills Fox with it at about 100%-110% fresh. It has range and if they are at kill % they could easily bait a Snake into doing u-tilt and then get him into a juggling situation with a u-smash.(I tested this on FD)

Lol you can't compare fail DI of Snake with good DI of Fox. Fox's Usmash DOESN'T kill earlier than Snake's Utilt in this matchup. Remember that Fox has the weight of a fly while Snake has the weight of Mount Everest.

 

[Conviction]

LOL it does I'm sorry.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I am positive they don't

 

[SCOTU]

LOL it does I'm sorry.

I am positive they don't

are you guys arguing over which kills faster? Snake utilt or fox usmash? Just test it. In VS mode (not training/single player mode) make sure the attack is fresh, have a difference in % that is not attributable to decimal error, and then hit each other with the attacks. DI fox's usmash 20-30 degrees below forward, and DI snake's utilt directly forward. Ensure no SDI. This is easily testable with only 1 person around. Make a video if you want to prove it to someone else.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

derp do you know anything about priority?

Originally Posted by Ankoku View Post (note I suck at this quoting stuff)
Priority is priority. There are a bunch of rules by which attacks follow for clashing. By the way, there are certain attacks that break rules regarding clashes, etc.

If the difference is greater than 10%, the weaker attack will clash cancel while the stronger attack will continue on.
If the difference is less than 10%, both attacks will clash cancel.
If two attacks collide but no collision boxes (or hurtboxes) are touched, both attacks will clash cancel.

Special attacks (B moves) can clash with special attacks, aerials, and ground attacks.
Ground attacks can clash with special attacks and ground attacks.
Aerials can only clash with special attacks.

Note that there are exceptions to this set of rules.

Non-interactive hitboxes - Will never clash and only interacts with collision boxes. Examples: Lasers, PK Thunder, Sheik's needles, Meta Knight's aerials

Aerial special clashes - Clashes that happen with one or more characters in the air will not cancel the attack of the character(s) in the air. The hitboxes in particular that clashed are negated as far as interaction between the two characters, though. Examples: Mach Tornado

Special-class hitboxes - Certain normal attacks have the same clashing properties as special attacks. Examples: Olimar usmash, Meta Knight dash attack




so in the end your both wrong assuming you hit snakes hurt box his bair won't touch you, since your both using aerial attacks, although the person I am quoting is more wrong because snakes bair does a bit of damage so more priority.

Actually really whats more important than priority is how fast your attacks come out and their range. given that you should be attacking from below and not behind it shouldn't be an issue to begin with.
THE MORE YOU KNOW.



anyway fox's up smash won't kill snake till like 120-130 if your opponent has decent DI and snakes uptilt will probably kill you fresh at like 100% (as in you get hit at 100% you die at 112-3%)



and that snake in the match iblis showed didn't have decent knowledge of his character or wasn't playing seriously, how that can be shown as a match for demonstrating the match up I have no idea.

Snake's back air has a sweet spot for torque, which just so happens to be at his feet, & I never said the rest of his body didn't do damage. Basically priority determines which moves would do the damage in a clash of moves. How fast it comes out determines nothing about priority, except if you both go for the attack at the same time who would win. Also range just helps with spacing, it may be a coincidence that moves with big range have nice priority. Even though Snake's b-air does damage if he hits you with any part of his body, that doesn't mean that his whole body has the same amount of priority, a few of Snake's move go off of sweet spots like hist f-air. Also that video shows how hard of a time Snake has to actually do anything in that matchup, so that could be why you'd think he coudn't do anything. Aisde from that how could those two mess ups means he had no knowledge of his character?

But it's still better recovering high and just risk juggling than recovering low because you don't risk gimps at all, which is worse than juggling and just taking a bit of damage. That's how good Snakes will recover unless you're far enough for the Snake to safely get down without using the Cypher.



Lol you can't compare fail DI of Snake with good DI of Fox. Fox's Usmash DOESN'T kill earlier than Snake's Utilt in this matchup. Remember that Fox has the weight of a fly while Snake has the weight of Mount Everest.

A better way of recovering from a fox instead of high or low is to just go for the ledge. You have more option to recover which makes it harder for Fox to completely guess and punish what you are doing, & if he does you'd take even less damage than being juggled. Also yes I know Snake's u-tilt is notoriously ridiculous in most match ups for it's range, & kill %, but that doesn't mean that Fox's u-smash won't be more ridiculous regardless of any DI. Weight doesn't matter if one move kills earlier than another.

 

[crifer]

A better way of recovering from a fox instead of high or low is to just go for the ledge. You have more option to recover which makes it harder for Fox to completely guess and punish what you are doing, & if he does you'd take even less damage than being juggled.

yeah snake should go for the ledge (/end sarcasm).
It´s so easy to see, because snake is so slow. grab the ledge, gg stock.

I think Snake is pretty limited at the ledge. I mean his get up attack is easy punishable, nades are way too risky. normal get up animation can work. Snakes tend to ledgejump and draw a nade or do a nair (which we can shine).

 

[Blacknight99923]

Snake's back air has a sweet spot for torque, which just so happens to be at his feet, & I never said the rest of his body didn't do damage. Basically priority determines which moves would do the damage in a clash of moves. How fast it comes out determines nothing about priority, except if you both go for the attack at the same time who would win. Also range just helps with spacing, it may be a coincidence that moves with big range have nice priority. Even though Snake's b-air does damage if he hits you with any part of his body, that doesn't mean that his whole body has the same amount of priority, a few of Snake's move go off of sweet spots like hist f-air. Also that video shows how hard of a time Snake has to actually do anything in that matchup, so that could be why you'd think he coudn't do anything. Aisde from that how could those two mess ups means he had no knowledge of his character?


A better way of recovering from a fox instead of high or low is to just go for the ledge. You have more option to recover which makes it harder for Fox to completely guess and punish what you are doing, & if he does you'd take even less damage than being juggled. Also yes I know Snake's u-tilt is notoriously ridiculous in most match ups for it's range, & kill %, but that doesn't mean that Fox's u-smash won't be more ridiculous regardless of any DI. Weight doesn't matter if one move kills earlier than another.

derp
if one move comes out in 4 frames

and the other comes out in 8

the one with 4 frames is obviously going to come out.


I know what priority is and I proved you were both wrong


READ THE POST AGAIN AERIAL MOVES TO NOT CLASH WITH AERIAL MOVES MEANING THE MOVE THAT HITS FIRST WINS.

secondly unless your telling me bair has a sweet spot (it is a sex kick it doesn't) then don't compare 2 different moves.


moves that have longer range have more "priority" because they hit from farther away in less time, they don't actually have more. Trust me when I say its more important for your move to be fast and have more range than it is to do more damage if 2 moves are used at the same time because you hit them before there attack so they can't clash anyway, also a move has to do 10 damage more so it probably won't happen anyway. Clashes rarely happen however faster moves occur every match. Real priority is rarely EVER a factor in a match since the only move people frequently clash with is Nado which is difficult to hit out of with a 13 damage move because of how slow they are. This is why people use attacks that don't clash (because there isn't a "hurtbox" attached to it) such as marth's special moves falcos laser mks normal moves, snakes uptilt, ect



It was more than just 2 suicides he was doing things snakes mains don't do things such as leaving lag on nair which is asking to get punished. That being said if he killed himself twice meaning the video isn't accurate to begin with. the snake main didn't really play that well