Match-Up Export #2: Snake | Creating Summary

[4Biddin]

Were you saying that as in Snake deals more damage, or Fox deals more damage?

You read his post wrong he wants to know why it isn't Fox's adv.

Also no Fox deals damage faster than Snake does.

Well I never said Snakes was faster but I was saying that if you make a mistake you can take just as much damage as you just dealt in one ftiilt to dacus.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Ftilt to dacus hmmmm

I never knew that worked.

you must be an AMAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZING genius to discover such and escapable combo

 

[4Biddin]

Ftilt to dacus hmmmm

I never knew that worked.

you must be an AMAZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZING genius to discover such and escapable combo

ftilt to dacus works and keeps pressure on the opponent. I never said it was a combo but it does combo depending on DI not to mention it will put a mortar over their head so if they try to counter attack they get blasted.

Seriously Im getting sick of your **** and I have been trying to be laid back so you can chill brah.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Well I never said Snakes was faster but I was saying that if you make a mistake you can take just as much damage as you just dealt in one ftiilt to dacus.

I know, but given that if you go to a tournament and run into a Fox, most likely they've gotten good enough to where they don't make enough mistakes for Snake to really even it out. So would it really be even given that you will most likely go against a good Fox? I also think that f-tilt and grenades alone won't bring Snake to victory. I mainly disagree with the grenades part; Fox can either blow the grenade up in your face or shine the grenades back to you and then they blow up in your face. Also the f-tilt only gets them to 20% if you hit them with both, but following that up with a mortar slide would be a bit tricky, because if they hit the ground the could easily knock you out of it with a well timed attack to get up, or just roll past them.

Oh and i'm not trying to be insulting or anything. ^_^

 

[AvaricePanda]

f-tilt to DACUS should not combo. The DACUS should be punished with a good aerial, or at the least the opponent can escape by airdodging.

F-tilt by itself as a punishment though is pretty good especially considering it's range and damage.

 

[Blacknight99923]

and 4 frame speed

 

[4Biddin]

I know, but given that if you go to a tournament and run into a Fox, most likely they've gotten good enough to where they don't make enough mistakes for Snake to really even it out. So would it really be even given that you will most likely go against a good Fox? I also think that f-tilt and grenades alone won't bring Snake to victory. I mainly disagree with the grenades part; Fox can either blow the grenade up in your face or shine the grenades back to you and then they blow up in your face. Also the f-tilt only gets them to 20% if you hit them with both, but following that up with a mortar slide would be a bit tricky, because if they hit the ground the could easily knock you out of it with a well timed attack to get up, or just roll past them.

Oh and i'm not trying to be insulting or anything. ^_^

f-tilt to DACUS should not combo. The DACUS should be punished with a good aerial, or at the least the opponent can escape by airdodging.

F-tilt by itself as a punishment though is pretty good especially considering it's range and damage.

Good points I agree actually I was just throwing ftilt to DACUS out there as a hypothetical punishment. Avarice pointed out ftilt alone is a good enough punishment and I also agree with that.

I was thinking of it like this.

Ftilt-->Dacus-->Fox shield grabs--> Fox eats a mortar if he doesnt throw right away.
or
Ftilt-->Dacus-->Fox tries to jab or nair etc.-->Priority of Dacus goes through-->Fox takes the initial dash hit or full usmash

either way fox has just taken almost or more than 30%

Yes it may not work every time but snake can throw it out there every once in a while to make fox keep his guard and reactions up. MIND GAMES

 

[MJG]

Try watching these pro players use fox and snake in the MU...it helps a lot IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVGWIsvcL6s&feature=related

 

[Blacknight99923]

Good points I agree actually I was just throwing ftilt to DACUS out there as a hypothetical punishment. Avarice pointed out ftilt alone is a good enough punishment and I also agree with that.

I was thinking of it like this.

Ftilt-->Dacus-->Fox shield grabs--> Fox eats a mortar if he doesnt throw right away.
or
Ftilt-->Dacus-->Fox tries to jab or nair etc.-->Priority of Dacus goes through-->Fox takes the initial dash hit or full usmash

either way fox has just taken almost or more than 30%

Yes it may not work every time but snake can throw it out there every once in a while to make fox keep his guard and reactions up. MIND GAMES

uh no

more like
Ftilt or Grab to techase to ridiculous amounts of damage. actually I don't know if fox has any move that can safely NOT get pivot grabbed by snake.

Fox has no real way of getting out of techase as he doesn't have super rolls and his get up attack doesn't start toward snake so a good snake can PS it. If your playing a good snake your taking AT LEAST 30-40+ damage every time he gets a grab.

not to mention utilt set ups at over 100%


snakes don't use(GENERALLY) dacus to punish unless its the connected version so it does more damage (where you press up smash as dash attack hits) and is safer on shields however its precarious to begin with

 

[Ralph Cecil]

So basically what you're saying is the thing that Snake should work on here is tech chasing them until they are in kill % for the u-tilit?

Also that video link was to a video called How to eat watermelons or something like that.

 

[Blacknight99923]

So basically what you're saying is the thing that Snake should work on here is tech chasing them until they are in kill % for the u-tilit?

Also that video link was to a video called How to eat watermelons or something like that.

what I am saying is, is that snake is being dumb for trying to punish you with dash attack that does like 8 damage. he has much better options CQC (literally) and if your honestly leaving lag when you yourself can't even hit him your being an idiot. If he ever punishes you with a dash attack to begin with you left lag in bad places, not that you should leave lag to begin with

that being said dash attack is good for punishing improper laser fire

 

[ForwardAirRage!]

what I am saying is, is that snake is being dumb for trying to punish you with dash attack that does like 8 damage. he has much better options CQC (literally) and if your honestly leaving lag when you yourself can't even hit him your being an idiot. If he ever punishes you with a dash attack to begin with you left lag in bad places, not that you should leave lag to begin with

that being said dash attack is good for punishing improper laser fire

it is true that if ur leaving urself open for a dash atk, then ur being very stupid. its avoidable just by jumping and u can punish it from his lag. and u can almost tell when a snake is going to dash u, because they only reason they would is if they think its the only option to punish. so it should be predictble. what i do most of the time, is fake them out to wear they either dash or mortar or CQC.(i dash at them constently moving and camp to wear they have to make an option or they get punished.) (if i see it coming) i just dash in the same direction as the snakes dash and pivot grab. works with mortar slide as well. but thts just if u know its coming. and with the CQC , either dash shine (extreme timing) or drill to the utilt or smash(dsmash,usmash) options. or even the jab cancel to smash(dsmash, usmash) or grab.

hopefully it helps.

 

[C.R.Z]

ok so heres what i learnt on saturday:

in order to beat a good snake we have to keep in mind 2 main things (amoungst the rest of 'need to know' match up stuff:

1. dont get grabbed
This is prob the most significant. we cant really approach because of this. Snakes boost pivot grab cuts out alot of our options and means that we have to play cautiously consistently. One grab leads into many, and if your on high damage, its almost a guarenteed uptilt from snake no mater whether you roll or not. take little openings to get your damage, dont try and straght up beat snake in CQC because youll either get hit hard or get grabbed .

2. Get back on stage safely
Easyer said than done. If snake is at the ledge our options are minimized to practically nothing. if we illusion to the ledge, he will edge hog it, ending in death.if we illusion on stage, he will block and grab us or kill us. firefox is pretty much the same, you may be able to catch him off guard but its more likely we will get punished. If we happen to be high enough to illusion cancel thus lengthing the illusion and getting far inwards, snake has the motar slide, so he will do that and grab us or kill us .the only way i see us getting back safely is to use the shine to try and change the tempo of the match, still very difficult though.our option is just not to get put there in the first place.

 

[4Biddin]

ok so heres what i learnt on saturday:

in order to beat a good snake we have to keep in mind 2 main things (amoungst the rest of 'need to know' match up stuff:

1. dont get grabbed
This is prob the most significant. we cant really approach because of this. Snakes boost pivot grab cuts out alot of our options and means that we have to play cautiously consistently. One grab leads into many, and if your on high damage, its almost a guarenteed uptilt from snake no mater whether you roll or not. take little openings to get your damage, dont try and straght up beat snake in CQC because youll either get hit hard or get grabbed .

2. Get back on stage safely
Easyer said than done. If snake is at the ledge our options are minimized to practically nothing. if we illusion to the ledge, he will edge hog it, ending in death.if we illusion on stage, he will block and grab us or kill us. firefox is pretty much the same, you may be able to catch him off guard but its more likely we will get punished. If we happen to be high enough to illusion cancel thus lengthing the illusion and getting far inwards, snake has the motar slide, so he will do that and grab us or kill us .the only way i see us getting back safely is to use the shine to try and change the tempo of the match, still very difficult though.our option is just not to get put there in the first place.

Rising Fair helps shine stall, and try to switch up which move you use to recover.

Sometimes firefox above the ledge diagnially downwards to grab it. Or Go for a far illusion cancel. Recovery isnt that hard since fox has 3 options each one of them being good in their own way.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

ok so heres what i learnt on saturday:

in order to beat a good snake we have to keep in mind 2 main things (amoungst the rest of 'need to know' match up stuff:

1. dont get grabbed
This is prob the most significant. we cant really approach because of this. Snakes boost pivot grab cuts out alot of our options and means that we have to play cautiously consistently. One grab leads into many, and if your on high damage, its almost a guarenteed uptilt from snake no mater whether you roll or not. take little openings to get your damage, dont try and straght up beat snake in CQC because youll either get hit hard or get grabbed .

2. Get back on stage safely
Easyer said than done. If snake is at the ledge our options are minimized to practically nothing. if we illusion to the ledge, he will edge hog it, ending in death.if we illusion on stage, he will block and grab us or kill us. firefox is pretty much the same, you may be able to catch him off guard but its more likely we will get punished. If we happen to be high enough to illusion cancel thus lengthing the illusion and getting far inwards, snake has the motar slide, so he will do that and grab us or kill us .the only way i see us getting back safely is to use the shine to try and change the tempo of the match, still very difficult though.our option is just not to get put there in the first place.

That just covers a Snake if he manages to get a Fox off of the edge. Foxs on the other hand can rush in an grab and throw Snake off of the edge which is a worse position for Snake than Fox. Aside from that, Fox can approach so fast that if he can bait the second hit of the forward tilt or even grabbins or shielding a mortar slide, than Snake can just get caught in the air and get juggled til death or high % atleast. If you get Snake off of the edge you can edge guard him until high % or death, but if he gets back to the stage it's just back to the juggling stage anyway. The only few places i'd see Snake keeping an advantage with Fox would be Pictochat since that works both ways, and Snake grabs come in handy, or Japes which isn't even in every tourney, I say Japes because of the big vertical boundary, and the few plat for that there are he can control easily, and then force you onto that small plat for with him in the middle. (Sorry for the run-on sentence.) ^_^

 

[Conviction]

Snake isn't that hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBscVALuAbg

 

[Blacknight99923]

does that guy even main snake? he leaves lag on his nair , f smashed for no reason, kills himself with a fastfalled bair (which was sad tier), AND THEN kills himself with a C4. These are things a good snake shouldn't be doing.

 

[crifer]

than Snake can just get caught in the air and get juggled til death or high % atleast. If you get Snake off of the edge you can edge guard him until high % or death, but if he gets back to the stage it's just back to the juggling stage anyway

I don´t want to question your snake experience, but Snake is not that easy to juggle as you say it is. Especially not "juggled till death". snake can simply take out a nade and you explode if you hit him. he can b reversal them, in order to sitch his momentum, too. And a good Snake shoudl rarely (if ever) get edge guarded. (maybe after a unexpected dsmash.)

Ftilt and pivot grab in combination with nades destroy nearly every approach.

@ Iblis: nice played, only few mistakes. And the Snake was good, but not really good to demonstrate the matchup.

 

[Conviction]

does that guy even main snake? he leaves lag on his nair , f smashed for no reason, kills himself with a fastfalled bair (which was sad tier), AND THEN kills himself with a C4. These are things a good snake shouldn't be doing.

Yea he made mistakes (even though he did the Bair thing on purpose) but this vid is better than nothing.

 

[Blacknight99923]

yes but we should see a vid with a snake who knows his character and the match up/ or wasn't sandbagging

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I don´t want to question your snake experience, but Snake is not that easy to juggle as you say it is. Especially not "juggled till death". snake can simply take out a nade and you explode if you hit him. he can b reversal them, in order to sitch his momentum, too. And a good Snake shoudl rarely (if ever) get edge guarded. (maybe after a unexpected dsmash.)

Ftilt and pivot grab in combination with nades destroy nearly every approach.

@ Iblis: nice played, only few mistakes. And the Snake was good, but not really good to demonstrate the matchup.

Snakes aerials are beaten by most people(This is common knowledge), and with someone with very good aerials such as Fox could easily both juggle and edge guard Snake. Snake has no aerial that could beat a Fox that is approaching him from directly below with a u-air, or just waiting to get a u-smash in, that's how Snake is juggled easily in this match and the u-smash kills Snake at early %s. So that's where juggled to death comes in. Snakes who get knocked off stage have one thing to beat a Fox's f-air, and possibly if they approach with b-air, and that is the last hit of his n-air. Now let's say a Snake does get by, he'd have to go right above them and then it just goes back to the juggling thing I mention earlier, or he could grab the ledge where a Fox can do just about whatever he pleases in the situation.


Also all of these scenarios i'm bringing up are from actual experience that I have with my friend who is a Fox main.

 

[4Biddin]

Snake isn't that hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBscVALuAbg

LMAO worst snake ever!

 

[4Biddin]

I don´t want to question your snake experience, but Snake is not that easy to juggle as you say it is. Especially not "juggled till death". snake can simply take out a nade and you explode if you hit him. he can b reversal them, in order to sitch his momentum, too. And a good Snake shoudl rarely (if ever) get edge guarded. (maybe after a unexpected dsmash.)

Ftilt and pivot grab in combination with nades destroy nearly every approach.

@ Iblis: nice played, only few mistakes. And the Snake was good, but not really good to demonstrate the matchup.

Snakes falling bair will stop alot of juggles unless your metaknight. I would rather let snake fall and create mindgames from that to land bigger hits juggling puts yourself in a position to take damage which is never a good thing.

 

[Conviction]

Falling Bair is beaten by Uair it has no vertical hitbox.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Snakes falling bair will stop alot of juggles unless your metaknight. I would rather let snake fall and create mindgames from that to land bigger hits juggling puts yourself in a position to take damage which is never a good thing.

did you say worst snake ever because I said so earlier honestly?

snakes bair is terrible at anti juggle, first of all you have to be behind snake for it to connect and second of all why would you let him fall to land bigger hits? snakes don't generally aerial for no reason so letting them fall is just dumb if they can reset the situation. yes putting yourself in a position to get hit is a BAD thing which is why you CONTINUE THE JUGGLE

if you can continue a juggle you not only get more damage but you keep snake from resetting the situation which is when his overpowering options take place.


Look I understand your trying to help but honestly it feels to me like you should be asking questions then spouting wrong answers.

 

[crifer]

Snakes aerials are beaten by most people(This is common knowledge), and with someone with very good aerials such as Fox could easily both juggle and edge guard Snake. Snake has no aerial that could beat a Fox that is approaching him from directly below with a u-air, or just waiting to get a u-smash in, that's how Snake is juggled easily in this match and the u-smash kills Snake at early %s. So that's where juggled to death comes in. Snakes who get knocked off stage have one thing to beat a Fox's f-air, and possibly if they approach with b-air, and that is the last hit of his n-air. Now let's say a Snake does get by, he'd have to go right above them and then it just goes back to the juggling thing I mention earlier, or he could grab the ledge where a Fox can do just about whatever he pleases in the situation.


Also all of these scenarios i'm bringing up are from actual experience that I have with my friend who is a Fox main.

You´re friend never b reverse a nade, C4 or even his sideB ? ****ing nades destory fair juggles, often beat uair (depending on spacing). You don´t want to risk snake and yourself getting hit by a nade, because he puts out a lot more damage than you.
If you don´t know, offstage snake should never fair because we can shine out of it. b reversal to bair can work for snake. fair is way too risky for snake.

I try to punish his landing lag and get him up again, juggling does not work often, imo.

 

[Conviction]

Juggling works for me. Only aerial that might give me trouble is Nair but even then I can Bair through that.
If Snake is already getting juggled wouldn't pulling a nade just reset the position with him having damage than us cause we already have juggling him before he pulled the nade.

 

[C.R.Z]

my point was we cant go in and rush him, that wont work. it will lead into lots of damage or death.we can only rush if he is whiffing attacks.

btw its not easy edge guarding snake...not at all

 

[smashkng]

Yeah Snakes with good DI will be allowed to recover high enough to get safe from gimps.

 

[Conviction]

If you can reach him the Strong part of Nair knocks him off cypher, so does Bair and Uair. When he recovers high he safe from gimps but not exactly safe from being juggled since he put himself back into the air.

 

[crifer]

If Snake is already getting juggled wouldn't pulling a nade just reset the position with him having damage than us cause we already have juggling him before he pulled the nade.

not really. It gives you and the snake player damage which is good for snake.
And yeah, you could juggle him before, but he also could have dealt more damage than you.
I think nades come out on frame 1, so it´s not that easy to juggle him.

 

[Conviction]

Err? If you are juggling him you should be the only one giving damage so when he does pull the nade it goes back to neutral but he took a good bit of damage. Snake wants to get close in on Fox space about his Utilt range. He should any closer or the Fox will take adv. of it. Snake should try to control your movements when his mine traps but you can grab the ledge and ledgehop laser his Dsmash. Also our laser cancel his grenades for the most part. I think you guys kind of hype Snake's Dthrow a little too much. Remember it's still a guessing game for the Snake too.

 

[Blacknight99923]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258332
snake pulls the pin at frame 10
secondly you have to hit snake on his grenade for it to blow and snake won't punish you for that. He will be to busy trying to recover and since fox has a fast fall you should be safe

fairing in general is dumb because snake CAN punish you for it if he SDi's regardless of nade because he can bair you or just get to the ground first which is terrible to reset the situation. That and you won't even hit him off his cipher. don't use fair here its bad.

off stage I would recommend Uair and bair, if possible try to RAR the bair just keep hitting him and don't let him get back, this is probably when your going to do most of your damage against snake is when he is trying to recover so make use of it.

snake can punish your illusions with a plethora of options and they are pretty hard hitting be smart about your recovery and make sure you can cancel so you aren't getting hit by unnecessary punishes.

on stage juggles are a little touger for actual "juggling" since he can just fast fall airdodge through most of your uair. I am not entierly sure but I would think your best bet is to try to dair and throw/dsmash them offstage. Or just in general get them off stage. edit this entire paragraph is referring to when snake recovers high

remember that U smash is going to be a huge friend to you here since you can kill snake EARLY (for snake) but they WILL be watching for it


Keep those lasers firing

snakes has a few solid advantages here. Needless to say you don't have anything close up on his tilts and his techchase is really hard hitting. he can easily give your recovery some problems if you aren't careful and he kills you early with his up tilt as well. I am not an expert or anything on this match up but this is my take on it

 

[AvaricePanda]

uhh

Snake's D-throw is REALLY GOOD I dunno how else to say that.

Fox's roll away from it isn't the greatest. If he just walks slightly forward (like nearly on you) and shields he pretty much covers all options. If you regular get-up, roll behind him, or attack get-up he'll grab (shieldgrab in the case of an attack), and if you roll forward I'm pretty sure he can just walk and F-tilt you. Depending the direction you're facing, Snake doesn't even have to shield and just react to a get-up attack, at the very least you'll be hit by a dash attack if you roll away or something. And then there's guessing along with the covering multiple options at once, so if you do like to roll forward a lot, he can predict, grab you again, and then go back to shielding and covering most options.

As a tip, you don't want to use waiting on the ground as a mix-up option past 100% because if you don't buffer or roll immediately, he can U-tilt you from D-throw.

Really though, he should be often doing 30% per D-throw.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Really though, he should be often doing 30% per D-throw.

I honestly have to say 40 or more. If the snake doesn't frequently get a regrab he isn't very good at the techase

 

[smashkng]

I'm pretty sure Snake's Utilt kills earlier than Fox's Usmash in this matchup, because there is a really big difference in weight in this matchup, and the Utilt is faster in start-up by 2 frames and has more range including a really big disjoint, with the only advantage of Fox's being that he can use it while running. However, the Usmash still kills early for being Snake and not like Meta Knight, at like 110% when DIing behind Fox and probably around 130% when DIing away and when fairly far from the edge. When talking about Snake's Utilt kill percent, I'd say around 105% fresh with perfect DI, but can kill below 100% if you don't DI.

 

[Robfox]

wow you guys really get into detail lol I agree with cloud 100% rushing Snake is close 2 suicide

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Snake isn't that hard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBscVALuAbg

Even though people say that Snake sucked I saw that there was really only the 2 suicides. Aside from that I felt that was a pretty good match showing the matchup.

Snakes falling bair will stop alot of juggles unless your metaknight. I would rather let snake fall and create mindgames from that to land bigger hits juggling puts yourself in a position to take damage which is never a good thing.

Snakes back air has very little priority even though his whole body is the hit box. You'd have to be at his feet for him to possibly out prioritize you. Also juggling if the best thing a Fox can do in this matchup aside from camping.

You´re friend never b reverse a nade, C4 or even his sideB ? ****ing nades destory fair juggles, often beat uair (depending on spacing). You don´t want to risk snake and yourself getting hit by a nade, because he puts out a lot more damage than you.
If you don´t know, offstage snake should never fair because we can shine out of it. b reversal to bair can work for snake. fair is way too risky for snake.

I try to punish his landing lag and get him up again, juggling does not work often, imo.

1. I'm the Snake in this matchup that i'm referring to. If the Fox is approaching you from below for a u-smash, or u-air(Which they should) then the lag from the C4 won't let you hurt them, and grenade reversing will help if you cook the grenade and wait for them to approach you on the ground maybe. You can't juggle with f-air, juggling is constantly knocking them up in the air and keeping them there. Spacing would work against u-air possibly if they hit the grenade. Also I think controller port play a big part on who takes damage and how much it is. Also good job on punishing landing lag. ^_^

Yeah Snakes with good DI will be allowed to recover high enough to get safe from gimps.

It would let him recover high, but since Snake's never want to be in the air, and Foxs like to juggle Snakes, that seems like a bad idea.

my point was we cant go in and rush him, that wont work. it will lead into lots of damage or death.we can only rush if he is whiffing attacks.

btw its not easy edge guarding snake...not at all

I agree on the rushing, that's why you should camp since he can't camp you and approaching just isn't fun for either in this match up though Snake has to.
Why isn't it easy to edge guard Snake? If you are that scared to approach because you feel they'll pull out a b-air, then just do as someone else said and punish his landing lag, or you can just let him get the edge and space you self from him leaving you to atleast punish his recovering or just go back to camping.

I'm pretty sure Snake's Utilt kills earlier than Fox's Usmash in this matchup, because there is a really big difference in weight in this matchup, and the Utilt is faster in start-up by 2 frames and has more range including a really big disjoint, with the only advantage of Fox's being that he can use it while running. However, the Usmash still kills early for being Snake and not like Meta Knight, at like 110% when DIing behind Fox and probably around 130% when DIing away and when fairly far from the edge. When talking about Snake's Utilt kill percent, I'd say around 105% fresh with perfect DI, but can kill below 100% if you don't DI.

Actually no, Snake's u-tilt with good DI doesn't kill until he gets to over 100%(leave room for error depending on stage, & boundaries) While Fox's u-smash makes it hard for Snake to pull out any moves for DI, and can kill at about 90%(again leave room for error depending on the stage). Snake is a heavier character, but Fox's u-smash is just a better kill move. Though the u-tilt is faster and has more range, one surprising hyphen smash could mean a stock.

 

[crifer]

Snakes back air has very little priority even though his whole body is the hit box. You'd have to be at his feet for him to possibly out prioritize you. Also juggling if the best thing a Fox can do in this matchup aside from camping.

little priority? I don´t think so.

1. I'm the Snake in this matchup that i'm referring to. If the Fox is approaching you from below for a u-smash, or u-air(Which they should) then the lag from the C4 won't let you hurt them, and grenade reversing will help if you cook the grenade and wait for them to approach you on the ground maybe. You can't juggle with f-air, juggling is constantly knocking them up in the air and keeping them there. Spacing would work against u-air possibly if they hit the grenade. Also I think controller port play a big part on who takes damage and how much it is. Also good job on punishing landing lag. ^_^

cook the nade in the air?? the red highlighted words are confusing me and I don´t understand what you actually want to say.
the controller part is so wrong.

I agree on the rushing, that's why you should camp since he can't camp you and approaching just isn't fun for either in this match up though Snake has to.
Why isn't it easy to edge guard Snake? If you are that scared to approach because you feel they'll pull out a b-air, then just do as someone else said and punish his landing lag, or you can just let him get the edge and space you self from him leaving you to atleast punish his recovering or just go back to camping.

you mean he does a bair and we should punish it?

Actually no, Snake's u-tilt with good DI doesn't kill until he gets to over 100%(leave room for error depending on stage, & boundaries) While Fox's u-smash makes it hard for Snake to pull out any moves for DI, and can kill at about 90%(again leave room for error depending on the stage). Snake is a heavier character, but Fox's u-smash is just a better kill move. Though the u-tilt is faster and has more range, one surprising hyphen smash could mean a stock.

usmash would never kill snake about 90 % O.o
and snakes utilt has as you mentioned way more range is faster and has setups.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

little priority? I don´t think so.


cook the nade in the air?? the red highlighted words are confusing me and I don´t understand what you actually want to say.
the controller part is so wrong.



you mean he does a bair and we should punish it?





usmash would never kill snake about 90 % O.o
and snakes utilt has as you mentioned way more range is faster and has setups.

Read it a bit closer and you'll see I said that his feet have the priority for that move and the rest of his body has very little priority.

Cooking the grenade is holding the grenade a bit longer instead of just throwing it, and controller port can decide who blows up when a grenade is around and Snake is holding you. So that's why I guessed at that one.

No someone had talked about Snake just punishing an edgeguard approach with a b-air. All I was saying is there are other ways to edgeguard him aside from just going out there and potentially getting beaten in the air.

If stale Fox's u-smash kills at about 110%, so fresh should be from 90%-100%. Snake u-tilt stale kills at about 120% which means he probably kills Fox with it at about 100%-110% fresh. It has range and if they are at kill % they could easily bait a Snake into doing u-tilt and then get him into a juggling situation with a u-smash.(I tested this on FD)