Match-Up Rediscussion: Samus

[KillerJawz]

Uair pressure from Samus? Ehhhhhh this isn't ZSS we're talking about here, samus' uair is SDI'able and pretty easy to see coming since she's floaty. I've SDI'd it where I end up bellow samus and I hit her with my own Uair, guess it's opponent dependent with the factor being their SDI.

We can SDI your Dair. Stop theorycrafting.

Nuff said.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

SDI up and away from it.

 

[Metatitan]

We can SDI your Dair. Stop theorycrafting.

Nuff said.

I didn't mention Dair in my post at all. And yes you can SDI it, we can SDI your Uair as well. It's not theorycrafting, it's a fact. I have on several occasions SDI's Samus' Uair downward and punished with Uair, I was just mentioning it.

As long as we're talking about SDI'ing multihit moves, they are SDIable by everyone. The only matchups they actually contribute a lot to are against characters whose weight makes it more difficult or lack of a quick aerial attack to punish as they SDI out. Peach has Nair, Bair, and Uair, and Samus has Uair and Nair. They can both punish easily when they SDI each other's attacks, so I don't see either attack as a huge issue in the matchup.

Therefore, all I'm trying to say is that Samus won't be juggling with Uair very much. Zair is a whole different subject.

 

[KillerJawz]

Dair was more of a counter argument to say you won't be racking up damage with it on us, nor will we be juggling you as well with uair. However, when you say you can uair our uair, we can also punish your dair with bair if we choose to SDI to the right, and at higher percentages, this is fatal.

Spoiler

/theorycraft

If we fast fall our Uair, we are in the clear, you won't be able to SDI it below us, and we can simply follow up with UpB. lolpeachairdodge

Also, I got the theory crafting thing from this:

pretty easy to see coming since she's floaty.

That really made no sense whatsoever tbh :/, this isn't Peach v Jiggs.

 

[Purple]

Samus isn't turbo floaty, she's just a floaty character in comparison to heavier characters

 

[Xyro77]

Uair pressure from Samus? Ehhhhhh this isn't ZSS we're talking about here, samus' uair is SDI'able and pretty easy to see coming since she's floaty. I've SDI'd it where I end up bellow samus and I hit her with my own Uair, guess it's opponent dependent with the factor being their SDI.

Samus doesnt use her u air like u think we would. We come down on peach with a U air. Since it auto cancels, we can up+B or dsmash or f smash or jab from it.

 

[Metatitan]

Being above peach is almost never a good position.

 

[Purple]

I don't think this conversations needs much else.. But if you guys want to keep talking I don't think it's a problem .

Some characters are advantageous to a point of where it's not punishable by peach. Samus in the air is bad for them, but at a short hop distance it's pretty good for samus, the only thing peach can do (in my opinion) is f-tilt to pop them up above them. But that would mean Samus is being silly.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Dair was more of a counter argument to say you won't be racking up damage with it on us, nor will we be juggling you as well with uair. However, when you say you can uair our uair, we can also punish your dair with bair if we choose to SDI to the right, and at higher percentages, this is fatal.

Spoiler

/theorycraft

If we fast fall our Uair, we are in the clear, you won't be able to SDI it below us, and we can simply follow up with UpB. lolpeachairdodge

Also, I got the theory crafting thing from this:



That really made no sense whatsoever tbh :/, this isn't Peach v Jiggs.

Peach's down air is a way better move than Samus' up air. This is because even when you SDI out of Peach's down air, you are above her, and recovering. This just plain isn't a good position. That is different from SDIing Samus up air and landing below her. The player who is below always has the advantage.

In addition, Peach can follow opponents SDI by floating during a down air. Thus any SDIing to the side can be "air chased" and read. Only SDing vertically will help. This is a big reason why SDIing Peach's dair ias less effective than SDing many multi hit moves in the game - she can follow your SDI with a float.

 

[Purple]

In a perfect scenario, Samus will never get out of Peach's d-air.

but fact is, it's something that isn't going to happen. Samus will more than likely get out of peach's d-air, even if taking a bit of extra damage via n-air by doing so.

 

[Eddie G]

In a perfect scenario, Samus will never get out of Peach's d-air.

but fact is, it's something that isn't going to happen. Samus will more than likely get out of peach's d-air, even if taking a bit of extra damage via n-air by doing so.

That is basically a summary of what Edrees described. He was making sure that people knew of Peach's advantageous position of being below the Samus when the latter SDI's out of the dair since Peach can immediately commit a followup in any direction thanks to her float, whereas Peach can SDI below Samus through the uair and Samus will have very little (if any) options to capitalize due to both her lack of a float and the manner/speed in which her fair and dair work, leaving two directions for Peach to SDI to with little to no punishment.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Also, good setups can be forced into a guaranteed scenario by reaction rather than reading. You don't need to predict an opponent to float chase their SDI so much as you need to react. Big distinction. This is another reason why Peach's dair is good. She can combat SDI by reacting. MK also has this ability with catching people in his tornado to DI - he doesn't need to predict which way people SDI out of the tornado, but just look which way they are SDIng and chasing them in that direction.

Laggy moves, or characters without much control during multi hit moves (A lot of Rob and DDD's moves, Samus up air" can be much more heavily punished via SDI than moves like this as a result. Thanks for the touch up , Kbizzle. Help me realiize even my own point!

 

[Purple]

Good stuff Edreesespieces, and I accept I'm wrong about that.

 

[Eddie G]

Sure, anytime Edrees. ^.^

 

[Xyless]

Skimmed through the topic. Just going to give my input.

Samus is possibly the best character in the game when it comes to frame trapping, possibly the only one whose entire gameplay is focused on it. Samus players I've seen always have at least two things going at once, keeping you on your toes and trying to shut down as many options you may think you have, and with that, the Samus player has far better control over what goes on in the next few frames. If you want a good article about frame trapping, then go here.

http://allisbrawl.com/news/newspost.aspx?id=710

Anyways, I really don't have much experience against good Samus players, as I haven't played Ficha in forever, and have yet to play GenoSamus in friendlies or tourney.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

This matchup is 65:35 Peach. Samus has no reliable way to damage Peach. Missles can be canceled out w/ Peach's entire moveset(nair,bair,fair, jab, f-tilt)...pretty much everything. The only pressure tool Samus has on Peach is zair, and once a player finds away around that, then Samus is done.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

Didnt most of the people here say that the ratio was 50:50 already?

 

[Purple]

This matchup is 65:35 Peach. Samus has no reliable way to damage Peach. Missles can be canceled out w/ Peach's entire moveset(nair,bair,fair, jab, f-tilt)...pretty much everything. The only pressure tool Samus has on Peach is zair, and once a player finds away around that, then Samus is done.

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG

a

read the summary sir/maam

 

[Metatitan]

This matchup is 65:35 Peach. Samus has no reliable way to damage Peach. Missles can be canceled out w/ Peach's entire moveset(nair,bair,fair, jab, f-tilt)...pretty much everything. The only pressure tool Samus has on Peach is zair, and once a player finds away around that, then Samus is done.

I lol'd so. hard.

 

[Nicole]

this matchup rediscussion about samus has been exactly like playing against samus, except with words...
boring, unimportant, not fun, and repetitive.

new char?

(seriously, i hate playing against samus, it is so gay.)

 

[Purple]

IT should've been a new character, we've been done with this for a while. Why has no one touched on R.O.B?

 

[KillerJawz]

This matchup is 65:35 Peach. Samus has no reliable way to damage Peach. Missles can be canceled out w/ Peach's entire moveset(nair,bair,fair, jab, f-tilt)...pretty much everything. The only pressure tool Samus has on Peach is zair, and once a player finds away around that, then Samus is done.

You need to go somewhere... really far away.

Can we like, just lock this or something? The posts are just getting stupid.

this matchup rediscussion about samus has been exactly like playing against samus, except with words...
boring, unimportant, not fun, and repetitive.

new char?

(seriously, i hate playing against samus, it is so gay.)

You are my god.

 

[Meru.]

You need to go somewhere... really far away.

Can we like, just lock this or something? The posts are just getting stupid.

The thread was already kinda dying. >_<

 

[KillerJawz]

The thread was already kinda dying. >_<

It came back before hand, then died, then I felt the urge to revive it, and then request for it to be killed by a mighty lance from Edresse.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Looks like I am late to say my input on this match up. But for the ratio, it is an even fight.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Yeah discussion was pretty much summed up here and agreed to, at even matchup. so i'll close it.