MATCH UPS....throw anything you got.....

[Jellyfishn]

I think Lucas is about an even match. All his smashes are powerful, and Usmash and Dsmash last a long time, however, he is tremendously easy to gimp. Cape or FLUDD will give you this match if you know what you are doing, but Lucas is still a hard matchup. And monk is right. Lucas' Nair will own you if you aren't careful.

Edit: I also think we should talk about Toon Link next. I main him, but don't necessarily like T Link vs T Link battles.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The thing I find is that most of Lucas's attack options aren't safe at all. Particularly his kill options. Mario doesn't have a whole ton of kill options, but at least his are significantly more safe.

I don't think Lucas can ledgeguard Mario unless Mario really badly screws up his recovery from above stage. Mario can Cape away PK Thunder. Mario's Up-B has priority over almost every aerial in the game. Ledgeguarding Mario just really isn't practical for Lucas as far as I'm concerned.

Also Lucas's U-smash sucks. It's really easy to see coming, and if he misses it, it's pretty much a free Smash, grab, or aerial for you. Same with his D-smash except you can't really grab him from that. The only one you really have to beware is the F-smash which comes out sorta fast.

Honestly, if you can get within the range where you can Cape back his PK Fire, I feel you can give him a lot of problems. And I dunno about you guys but I find PK Fire fairly easy to see coming because he shouts out "PEE KAY FIRE" right before throwing it of course, which is enough time to Cape it back really. << Once you're in that range, ideally wait for him to approach, since as I said earlier he's just plain terrible at doing that.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

The thing I find is that most of Lucas's attack options aren't safe at all. Particularly his kill options. Mario doesn't have a whole ton of kill options, but at least his are significantly more safe.
Fsmash comes out fast enough to where Lucas can hit you with a couple Dtilts and Follow up with a Fsmash almost everytime

I don't think Lucas can ledgeguard Mario unless Mario really badly screws up his recovery from above stage. Mario can Cape away PK Thunder. Mario's Up-B has priority over almost every aerial in the game. Ledgeguarding Mario just really isn't practical for Lucas as far as I'm concerned.
Lucas + Good Aiming = Mario getting hit with PKT2 and being sent backwards. Ledge gaurding is still one of Mario's weakpoints...his recovery is so **** predictable that some can knock you off the stage and wait right untill you Up-b and then grab the egde

Also Lucas's U-smash sucks. It's really easy to see coming, and if he misses it, it's pretty much a free Smash, grab, or aerial for you. Same with his D-smash except you can't really grab him from that. The only one you really have to beware is the F-smash which comes out sorta fast.
It's all about set-ups...a good Lucas player knows when to use it effectively...In Melee I used to say"I'll never get hit with Ganon's Utilt" and then Renth nailed me right in the face with it...just cause a move is slow doesn't mean it isn't going to hit you

trust me Lucas is a neutral match-up at best


Edit: 1000 post I would like to thank the Atlantic South...for being such a big pile of useless spam...Mario boards Melee and Brawl...for being so god **** sexy...and the big guy upstairs...The Flying Spaghetti Monster aka FSM...WE MADE IT

 

[Takeshi245]

trust me Lucas is a neutral match-up at best


Edit: 1000 post I would like to thank the Atlantic South...for being such a big pile of useless spam...Mario boards Melee and Brawl...for being so god **** sexy...and the big guy upstairs...The Flying Spaghetti Monster aka FSM...WE MADE IT

LOL. Okay. Now let's talk about Toon Link. Let me see here. Toon Link destroys Mario in the air. His aerial priority's better than Mario's and his projectile spam can get annoying at times. Even if you cape a boomerang, a smart Toon Link would have another bomb in handy if you do. Also, his double arrow spam is annoying. His D-smash is nasty and his grab range is bigger than yours. However, if he misses, he's screwed and Mario's F-smash can beat some of his moves if spaced properly. Toon Link's U-smash is nasty too but you can just dodge it and punish it for him afterwards, space yourself properly to F-smash him, or just powershield and D-smash him. His F-smash isn't a big deal if you know how to deal with it. You can block and instantly do a quick D-smash before he does the second strike if you're close enough. If you want, you can dodge the second strike and punish him from there. Just make sure the first strike doesn't hit you, especially when you're at a high percentage. Mario can't really juggle much Toon Link because of his weight but he can't really combo Mario. However, his projectile game's better than yours, he can be trouble in close combat because his sword is a disjointed hitbox but still has more range, and his aerial priority's a pain. I say Toon Link has the advantage over Mario. 7-3 for me.

 

[Jellyfishn]

I dont have much of a mario standpoint for this matchup, but I have some things to watch out for. First and foremost, watch out for stages with uneven ground(For example Yoshis Island[Brawl]) . TLs Dsmash can KO at REDICULOUSLY low %s (I have used it to KO marios at 0%) if it only hits with the first strike. Another thing, mario, as we all know, has a very predictable recovery. A good TL knows how to Dair spike and can do this easily to marios up-b.

 

[Flameleon]

Mario is faster than Toon Link with attacks, also, you can cape easily toon's spam. If you want to kill him fast, i recommend a angledupFsmash....

 

[Takeshi245]

I'm changing the match-up from 6-4 to 7-3. And Toon Link's spam>Cape. He has double arrow spam and boomerang and bomb combo spam. You would need to evade and get in on him but even then his moves for the most part beat out Mario's moves due to his range. Just make sure that once Toon Link makes a mistake, you get on him. Use Mario's other fast attacks to fight him. And like Jellyfishn basically said, Mario's recovery can be gimped easily. And Flameleon, Toon Link outranges Mario slightly, his aerials beat out yours, and has other fast attacks like D-smash that are a problem. There's that, and Toon Link can U-tilt juggle Mario which isn't fun to watch when you're Mario.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I like how people started talking toon link before Boss even got a chance to change the title

 

[Takeshi245]

I like how people started talking toon link before Boss even got a chance to change the title

Well, I guess we'll wait for him to do that, will we?

 

[Tyr_03]

Not much love for the Lucas matchup hmm? Oh well. I have to admit there are very few decent Lucas players out there.

 

[boss8]

so in conclusion lucas can be combo'ed fairly he gets punished for missing an Usmash...and is fairly easy to esge guard/gimp....moving on to WOLF!!!

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Wolf is just stupid....

he can be combo'd easily, his range isn't that great, and he has a very easily gimped recovery the only thing wolf really has in this match-up is power and probably a little bit more speed

 

[BoTastic!]

+easy to combo
+can be easily gimped
-Fsmash and dsmash
-beats mario in strength and is quite heavy
-More priority? idk

 

[Takeshi245]

He does have more priority. Once you get used to fighting Wolf, it isn't that hard. I'd say 6-4 Wolf because of his aerials, his nasty D-smash, and he can kill Mario faster. Mario can just juggle him for the most part because he's heavy and falls faster, gimp his recovery, and if you dodge Wolf's F-smash, you can go and own him.

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Dthrow-> sh double uair -> utilt-> sh uair = 70%

 

[BoTastic!]

wow i didn't know mario had the advantage and i also didn't know about that combo, Monk.

good to know this

 

[A2ZOMG]

Wolf sucks against Mario. He's a space animal. = easy gimp.

Just know the range of his F-smash, and you'll be fine.

And yeah, you can combo him to death. XD

 

[Veggi]

Wolf sucks against Mario. He's a space animal. = easy gimp.

Just know the range of his F-smash, and you'll be fine.

And yeah, you can combo him to death. XD

Whenever I try to link any moves on my friend's Wolf he just down b's me out of it.

 

[Takeshi245]

Whenever I try to link any moves on my friend's Wolf he just down b's me out of it.

One of the reasons why the match-up against Wolf is 6-4 in Wolf's favor.

 

[BoTastic!]

Down B gets pretty annoying

 

[A2ZOMG]

Shield and grab that. *shrug*

 

[boss8]

ok wolf.....can overpower u...

if your opponent knows how to fast autocancell it's really complicated to approach....

the safest way is to approach with fireballs.....

keep wolf in the air...(hint he hates the air)

off stage dont sit there and let him come back edgeguard him...


in conclusion....wolf is basically an annoyance such as fox and falco....but wolf is less annoying.....wolf also has range......sadly more range then u do....quick moves to kill wolf are usmash around 120%.....fsmash will kill over a hundred and comboing is a breeze......

anyone else wanna give feedbacl or do u guys wanna move on to another character...??

 

[BoTastic!]

ok wolf.....can overpower u...

if your opponent knows how to fast autocancell it's really complicated to approach....

the safest way is to approach with fireballs.....

keep wolf in the air...(hint he hates the air)

off stage dont sit there and let him come back edgeguard him...


in conclusion....wolf is basically an annoyance such as fox and falco....but wolf is less annoying.....wolf also has range......sadly more range then u do....quick moves to kill wolf are usmash around 120%.....fsmash will kill over a hundred and comboing is a breeze......

anyone else wanna give feedbacl or do u guys wanna move on to another character...??

ehhh i think we summed it up

 

[Takeshi245]

ok wolf.....can overpower u...

if your opponent knows how to fast autocancell it's really complicated to approach....

the safest way is to approach with fireballs.....

keep wolf in the air...(hint he hates the air)

off stage dont sit there and let him come back edgeguard him...


in conclusion....wolf is basically an annoyance such as fox and falco....but wolf is less annoying.....wolf also has range......sadly more range then u do....quick moves to kill wolf are usmash around 120%.....fsmash will kill over a hundred and comboing is a breeze......

anyone else wanna give feedbacl or do u guys wanna move on to another character...??

I think we've covered Wolf enough now. Now let's talk about Toon Link.

 

[Ranjiz]

No, we did. Let's talk about Donkey King. Did we cover that yet? If so, then let's discuss Luigi.

 

[BoTastic!]

No, we did. Let's talk about Donkey King. Did we cover that yet? If so, then let's discuss Luigi.

no we haven't talked about DK and i think we discussed luigi enough >_>

 

[EarthWindandFire]

Hey, Boss didn't talk about Mario's matchup against TLink yet, right?

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

I think we should let Boss decide what's going on with this thread considering he started it

 

[cHooKay]

I think we should let Boss decide what's going on with this thread considering he started it

amen.

On the side note, I don't think wolf is one of mario's worse match ups, if anything it can go both ways between the two. I can certainly agree that out of all the space animals, wolf is by far the easiest to combo. When i first started playing this game, the first time I pulled off multiple sh uairs all the way towards off the edge to a meteor was against wolf.

 

[boss8]

ok we are moving on to wario.....

 

[Ranjiz]

wario is extremely difficult to KO due to his weight and his amazing recovery (bike) but easily combo by using up tilt etc

 

[hippiedude92]

wario is extremely difficult to KO due to his weight and his amazing recovery (bike) but easily combo by using up tilt etc

Ehhh I beg to disagree about ko-ing him. His recovery is crap espically if he doesn't have his bike. You can always fludd/cape his recovery easily. Mario's aerials are faster and outprioritize his. He's easy once you get down the downthrow to utilts. The only threats you might find against Wario is that his Fsmash has super armor frames, his Fair can be a nice approach if spaced right, his Dthrow can lead to chaingrabs, his chomp bite attack may stop you when your approaching and his fart attack is humilating to ko'd from lol.

 

[BoTastic!]

his bite is one of the moves u should fear the most. it stops all ur ariel attacks. which is what makes mario good. also wario's dreadful Dair

 

[TechnoMonster]

Rather see his bike as an opportunity to punch him in the face.

 

[BoTastic!]

Rather see his bike as an opportunity to punch him in the face.

i said "Bite" not "Bike"

besides if wario has the bike he's difficult to edgeguard

 

[Veggi]

I don't like playing Mario vs. Wario, I always have a hard time. Everytime I play my friend who uses Wario, whenever I try to do something I always get bit. I think fireball approach would probably be the most useful.

 

[Takeshi245]

Wario's a problem for Mario. That's for sure. Mario's aerials can beat out Wario's, but sometimes Wario's dair can lead to trouble. The bike can get annoying and his bite also. There's that, and Wario's u-air can kill efficiently. You can juggle him, though, which is fun. Using properly spaced F-smashes can beat out the majority of his moves. Watch out for his bite in the air, though. Oh, and Wario can KO you at lower percentages than you can against him. Make use of dair. Get him off his bike if you can. I suggest bair, RAR bair, or nair. Wario's F-smash comes out fast and is powerful, but the post lag isn't good for him. Use that to punish him. That fart attack is deadly. Be on your guard for that atttack. If Wario spaces his aerial properly, it'll be harder to fight him. Like hippiedude92 said, his d-throw leads to chaingrabs, which isn't fun for Mario. There's that, and Wario's difficult to edgeguard if he has his bike. If he doesn't, just FLUDD him and go for the KO. I say 7-3 in Wario's favor.

 

[BoTastic!]

Wario is very hard but he's beatable.


Bair, Uair and Tornado r probably ur best bet against wario especialy Bair. Wario has very low post lag in his aerials so i can kinda disagree with u on that, Tak. Wario's aerials are amazing. His Dair>Nair>Fsmash combo is not fun at all and hard to punish if he misses the start of the combo. His recovery is situational. Either he has his bike or a Half/full charged fart makes his recovery. But if he has niether one then he's ridiculously easy to edgeguard. Wario's who know how to space makes it very hard to approach him. His Dthrow leads to chaingrabs Fireballs can be taken out by wario's fair, he's very heavy and his Fsmash comes out too fast(which is punishable if missed) His Dsmash comes out fast as well but the post lag is funny. So the best u can do to rack up damage by juggling him, watch his movements in the air. I normally expect an air dodge to keep him from avoiding mario's Uairs. Do not waste any of Mario's smashes. U need them crucially to kill wario. Jab fakes work pretty good on wario as well.

 

[Matador]

Wario has basically nothing to fall back on except for what's been said already. His bite is devastating, Bike makes for hard edgeguarding, Fsmash can be dangerous if he gets a good opportunity to use it (and the super armor opens up alot of options), And his Dair can be a problem. Abuse your Bair and fireballs. Utilize Mario's range and priority to force him into becoming predictable.

Wario's Bite and Fsmash are much like Link's upB; people use them only in certain situations because of how easily it's punished. Read your opponent and find out what triggers it, and punish it with fireballs to start up combos. His recovery's hard to edgeguard, but not impossible. The worst thing about his recovery is that he can easily recover high enough over the stage that he's not in any immediate danger, which, in itself, is bad because having your opponent beneath you at any point as nearly any character isn't a preferable spot.

This fight's hard, but there isn't a whole slew of cons and like...1 pro in this fight. It's nearly even imo

 

[Monk/Honkey/Banana]

Wario's bike on stage + Smart Mario + Fsmash = Wario not having his bike to help recovery