Matchup Thread (Updated 01/13/2010) -- Please Submit Ratios and Summaries!

[Snowstalker]

How about replacing Dedede (a very well-known match by both threads) with Donkey Kong?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

the threads have been made and the other boards have been informed, but they can make one for DK too.

 

[SOVAman]

hey Shiri can you make the next one diddy I have trouble with that match-up towards the end. I **** in the begining then it always ends bad. GAY

 

[Shiri]

Sure thing. Diddy and DK are on the list for next week's threads, then.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Diddy Matchup!!! Yeah, I can (well, at least I hope I can) really contribute to these boards seeing as I also main Diddy.

 

[Shiri]

I expect D-Torr and YoshiDiddy to OWN that thread when it gets here.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

The only thing is that I haven't played any other Yoshis to know the matchup perfectly. However, I know the ins and outs of Diddy so I do hope I can help.

 

[Chaco]

Expect Furbs to as well, if he'll contribute.

 

[YoshiIslander77z]

lol im gonna say this one last time, WE NEED TO COME TO SOME CONCLUSIONS ON VS. THREADS. some of the threads talk about one subject and stop. also we need to do more one at a time stuff theres like 7 different vs sutff which we could have 2 or 3 done and out of the way if u focused and got a summary for them

 

[Shiri]

Well, while I am working on putting up summaries for some, you have to realize something.

No matchups are ever "done and out of the way." The game is still young, characters are still evolving, and techniques are still being discovered. Yoshi players from Melee were still finding things up until early 2007 that changed lots of his top and high tier matchups. The very reason behind the versus threads (as opposed to one big matchup thread) is the fact that months or maybe years down the line, people can still reference the information presented in those threads and post about how new techniques that have been discovered (or playstyles that have emerged) change the matchup. It's all for the sake of posterity; "completion" is a thing that never really comes to a fighting game with any depth.

I wholeheartedly agree on the matchup summaries to date, though, and I'll get working on those with faster pace than I've been giving them.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Sonic boards discussing you again.

 

[Kinzer]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190510&page=344

It would be nice to give them a link, LOL.

But yeah.

I'll be willing to debate with any of you who think Yoshi has this much of an advantage over Sonic (currently it is 6:4 Yoshi's favor... personally I don't see it any worse than 55:45, and as such I want to get this one right.). I seriously do not know how that ratio came to be born the first time around...

 

[Shiri]

If any of you have Sonic experience, you should go and post before I spam them up good.

Does anybody here besides PRiDE have any actual Sonic experience? o_0

 

[Poltergust]

Offline... no. If I went to Gigabits last Saturday I would have met a few. =/

Did Gindler or D-Torr fight any Sonics there?

 

[Shiri]

We iz discussin teh munkeyz now.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Unfortunately I didn't play any good Sonics there in singles. But I did happen to see one, Teh Umby is pretty nastee from what I saw.

 

[bigman40]

Unfortunately I didn't play any good Sonics there in singles. But I did happen to see one, Teh Umby is pretty nastee from what I saw.

Umby is a good Sonic. I only played him one time in December during brackets

 

[Sharky]

I've got experience with da kid, but then again so do you, shiri, so that doesn't add much. bleeehhh I wouldn't be able to think enough to type something now, anyway.

 

[Furbs]

when are we doing the G+W matchup? I'm really thinking it's a lot simpler than it should be

 

[Shiri]

Sonic and Mr. Game and Watch sound good for the next topics.

They will be up tomorrow.

 

[.Marik]

An R.O.B. matchup discussion would be nice too. =)

 

[Airborne]

o thank god about gaymanwatch.... glad we have green ace getting on these forums every now and then. =D

 

[Kataefi]

Okay yoshis... I know we discussed this matchup not too long ago down this end but it's popped up again on the zelda boards here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190698

It would be great for your contributions yet again.

 

[RoyalBlood]

I demand Yoshi to inform Zelda of his/its bad stages against her

Go post in the thread if you can before it's too late!!

 

[Shiri]

I like how "tomorrow" from me means "in five days."

 

[Poltergust]

Wait, guys... I just looked at the Samus boards a little while ago. Samus is 65:35 against us? And bwett agreed!? o_O

We need a Samus discussion thread.

 

[Shiri]

Bwett probably agreed because he plays against the only actual Samus in tournaments right now.

Samus is coming up on Monday. Any other suggestions?

 

[NinjaFoxX]

i would like MK and Fox, scince i know quite a few and theyre pretty frustrating matchups

 

[.Marik]

Do you people honestly think the Zelda v. Yoshi matchup is 60:40 Zelda's favour?

I don't. Maybe 55:45 or 50:50 at best.

And there's no way in hell Samus is 65:35 against us. All Samus has is a nasty Zair and decent projectiles. 50:50 at best.

 

[Shiri]

Alright, Monday's three will be Zelda, Fox, and Samus. :D

 

[_clinton]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229697

ATTN: Yoshi mains...please talk about your character a bit in this thread which isn't a match up thread...its more of a highlight thread for what characters can do to Ness

 

[Player-4]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226651&page=15

we need more insight on where to take yoshi and where not to take him

please

 

[Sosuke]

Toon Link's are discussing Yoshi stage counterpicks and bans!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209912

It'll only take like 2-3 minutes. Just post what you think is a good/ bad stage for Yoshi (against Toon Link) and why.
It can be like one sentence or something. Just put some amount of an explanation please. ^_^



Why has Yoshi's Dair always been so dumb omfgbbqhax?

 

[.Marik]

Naw, it'd only make matchups harder for us lol.

Seriously guys, don't. Help. Them. =\

 

[Mmac]

K, since the last chart hasn't been updated in more than a half year, I'm starting fresh with a new one right now. For now though, it's only a blank slate, so I need a list of the new ratios from the recent discussions. Can anyone help fill me in?

PS: Just ignore the random coloured ratio boxes, I forgot/too lazy to change them to grey.

 

[Shiri]

Okay, okay, okay, okay.

Real quick, before anyone gets to this.

We're trying right now to focus on discussing the matchups without focusing on ratios. They start arguments over really arbitrary numbers and quantify things that are inherently immeasurable. Our matchup threads don't have any official numbers, but if you reeeeeally want to fill in your chart (I know some people really do want their matchup ratios for some reason), then ask like, Metatitan or something. They do all the imaginary number crunching.

P.S. - I HOPE EVERYONE CAUGHT MY VERY SUBTLE SUBLIMINAL POKES AT HOW RIDICULOUS MATCHUP RATIOS ARE. I WOULD HATE FOR MY ABSURDLY DRY HUMOR TO FALL ON DEAF EARS.

 

[Mmac]

I understand, but I am just trying to help....

Plus, I wanted statistics from the majority, not just one or two guys...

 

[Silent Beast]

Well, people do still mention ratios in the matchup threads. If you want numbers that are more agreed upon, rather than just from one or two people, you can try looking through the individual matchup threads to see if there's some sort of consensus on a ratio. Unfortunately, there are a number of matchups that haven't been discussed very thoroughly, so I'm not sure how many ratios you'll be able to get.

 

[Airborne]

also, what if we just put the range of ratios that everyone is debating in between? y'know, with like 1 point differences on ratios that are undecided?

edit: it helps b/c people won't start FLAME WARS ( ) over just one ratio...

 

[auroreon]

I personally think we should work towards a general matchip ratio... now I realise obviously it will be debatable and really MUs depend on mutiple factors, but I think getting down a general ratio would be beneficial.
Matchup discussions are there to debate the matchup so there will be just that... DEBATE. What people don't seem to be able to draw a line between is rational debate and mindless arguing.
As long as people are relevant and stay on-topic to contribute towards the debate then I don't see why anyone should feel the need to turn an innocent debate into a heated argument.

As long as we inforce strict moderation on debates over matchups and there is plenty of thought an consideration going into it, I don't see why we shouldn't aim to reach an agreed general matchup ratio.
If the SBR can rationaly debate and come to a conclusion on an even more debatable matter of tier lists and the like, then we can reach a MU ratio.
Its pretty sad if we can't even discuss matchup ratio without stupid arguements braking out over it.

Please do not accuse me of 'failing to understand that a ratio can never be completely accurate' and such, I know this. But I do believe we can reach a generally accepted ratio that reflects the matchup as accuratly as possible with a ratio.

To be blunt about it... we just need very strict moderating of arguments to stop mindless rubbish.