Matchups Chart & Lists - Updated: 29/Oct

[Rajam]

Good. Now it's already updated for size and tier placement. Looks awesome now!
Is it possible to make a higher contrast between the colours when match-ups are between 45-55? 45 and 50 look identical and Im pretty sure more red can be used.

I'll work in the colors now to make more contrast

 

[GameyHarp]

Have a friend that I brawl with ~3 time a week and we always refer to these lists to counterpick each others characters. His toonlink can't touch my snake but as soon as he grabs lucario we start trading matches.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Hey there: ZSS is one of Fox's harder matches, but you have it listed as a Fox advantage. It's somewhere like 65:35 or 70:30 ZSS.

 

[Crystanium]

Garbage. Garbage, I say! You're using this to indicate Samus' match-up ratio? Sorry, but the match-up between Samus and Bowser should be 65-35, Samus' favor. I've done my homework before throwing numbers out. The match-up between Samus and Kirby should be changed as well. It should be 45-55, Kirby's favor. You have it 30, which means that Kirby's is 70. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Rajam]

Hey there: ZSS is one of Fox's harder matches, but you have it listed as a Fox advantage. It's somewhere like 65:35 or 70:30 ZSS.

??? Watch it again: reading row v/s column, ZSS v/s Fox shows 70:30, Fox v/s ZSS shows 35:65

Garbage. Garbage, I say! You're using this to indicate Samus' match-up ratio? Sorry, but the match-up between Samus and Bowser should be 65-35, Samus' favor. I've done my homework before throwing numbers out. The match-up between Samus and Kirby should be changed as well. It should be 45-55, Kirby's favor. You have it 30, which means that Kirby's is 70. It doesn't work that way.

Im using that thread because the one they have stickied has barely one ratio: Samus 50:50 Samus. If you want to change the ratios here, please make sure they change them first at the official match-up topic im using or the official one you are having.
No offense, but im only posting official match-up ratios from the threads i've linked. If you have a new match-up thread, i'll link it and give it the priority if it has a little more ratios than just the ditto match-up ._. Also, I can erase the old "back-up" thread and their respective ratios once i change the official topic im using, if the community wants that

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A little more contrast was added to the colors of the chart, and also i've added a contrast scale, so you can tell me what colors do you see as the same thing or which are very different; though from my pc screen i can see an almost constant contrast, so i suggest trying to change setting to the contrast of your screen to see the difference

 

[Yonder]

Wait... if i'm reading the chart right,Wario and Diddy's worst matchups are both Luigi? Huh.

 

[Rajam]

Wait... if i'm reading the chart right,Wario and Diddy's worst matchups are both Luigi? Huh.

Yeah, looking at what the other boards say about Diddy and Wario (watching by column), Luigi is their worst matchup (both 70:30).If you look at their rows though (what the Wario community and what the Diddy community think as their worst matchup), Marth and Peach are Wario's worst matchups (40:60); Olimar and Luigi are Diddy's worst matchups (30:70)

 

[Crystanium]

Im using that thread because the one they have stickied has barely one ratio: Samus 50:50 Samus. If you want to change the ratios here, please make sure they change them first at the official match-up topic im using or the official one you are having.
No offense, but im only posting official match-up ratios from the threads i've linked. If you have a new match-up thread, i'll link it and give it the priority if it has a little more ratios than just the ditto match-up ._. Also, I can erase the old "back-up" thread and their respective ratios once i change the official topic im using, if the community wants that

We've had two match-up threads in the past that were created by me. We never got enough discussion, because the Samus board apparently was having too much fun messing around. I have a load of information on Bowser, just as an example, and the match-up ratio I ended up with is not the same as yours. You should also go through and read the rest of that match-up thread that was created by Xyro77, and not only the first page.

 

[IC3R]

It's a chart that allows one to view all sides of a match-up.

 

[B!squick]

Lol, the Ganon board is discussing all the match ups now that they have a chart to look at over there.

EDIT: Also, we know that the Bowser/Pikachu match up isn't 40/60. That was either done for luls or was just a simple mistake. I've already posted in the Bowser board thread to have the OP changed accordingly, so please bare with me. x_x

 

[MorphedChaos]

Wario has a 50:50 on MK IMO, still needs to be discussed, but Wario can Aircamp MK one some stages indefinitely.

Label D3 vs DK as 9:1 in D3's favor (Or actually 10:0), 8:2 for bowser vs D3, surprised you don't have them.

 

[B!squick]

Wario has a 50:50 on MK IMO, still needs to be discussed, but Wario can Aircamp MK one some stages indefinitely.

Label D3 vs DK as 9:1 in D3's favor (Or actually 10:0), 8:2 for bowser vs D3, surprised you don't have them.

I don't know about the others, but he has the Bowser/DeDeDe match up right. If you follow the rows and scroll down you see that the Bowser board discussed it as 80:20. In contrast, it looks as if the DeDeDe board hasn't discussed Bowser yet if you follow that row.

EDIT: Great chart by the way, even if it takes a second to figure out how to read it... I personally didn't have any trouble. >.>

 

[Tero.]

Wario and Sonic are underrated lol.
I don't agree with many stuff there, but I'm way to lazy to give any sort of argument, so ignore me.

 

[Rajam]

We've had two match-up threads in the past that were created by me. We never got enough discussion, because the Samus board apparently was having too much fun messing around. I have a load of information on Bowser, just as an example, and the match-up ratio I ended up with is not the same as yours. You should also go through and read the rest of that match-up thread that was created by Xyro77, and not only the first page.

I scrolled through Xyro77's thread, i found some oppinions and ratios, but i still insist that they must be put in the first post as an official statement before i update the chart; because that way i'll feel its the general consensus of the entire community instead of just someone's personal oppinion. I also highly suggest that if you've already discussed some matchups in the past, like v/s Bowser, go ahead and "make pressure" over Xyro77 to put that resume and the ratios in the first post. Also you can put some other ratios meanwhile there, waiting for a deep discuss of those matchups later.
I was searching your thread too but i didn't find it ._.

Lol, the Ganon board is discussing all the match ups now that they have a chart to look at over there.

EDIT: Also, we know that the Bowser/Pikachu match up isn't 40/60. That was either done for luls or was just a simple mistake. I've already posted in the Bowser board thread to have the OP changed accordingly, so please bare with me. x_x

I saw your post; i'll update as soon as it's changed

Wario has a 50:50 on MK IMO, still needs to be discussed, but Wario can Aircamp MK one some stages indefinitely.

Label D3 vs DK as 9:1 in D3's favor (Or actually 10:0), 8:2 for bowser vs D3, surprised you don't have them.

As said before, i'll wait the general consensus of each community before updating the chart. I know Dedede ***** DK and Bowser, but i'll wait until they discuss about these matchups and post an official ratio

 

[Bellioes]

Wow I like the new chart
Very easy to read and very useful :D
Also It seems like the Diddy boards and G&W have a sortve have a dispute
Diddys say its G&Ws advantage and G&W says its Diddys advantage???

 

[ndayday]

It's a very pretty chart, and I like the work that was put in it...but I don't see any need for a Match-Up Chart until the metagame is completely settled. Heck, Melee doesn't even have a match-up chart yet, and that game has been out for a good 7 years. What does that mean? Assuming Brawl's metagame doesn't go to a complete halt soon, then you're going to be updating and editing that chart for years...and as you can see, some people just throw the info out there without any proof, (although you make a point to get proof) and it's just numbers being thrown around.

Once again though, it's a great chart. If you have the patience and devotion, continue with this, but if not...then I would abandon it until concrete match-ups are agreed upon and have hardly any controversy around them.

 

[Rajam]

Wow I like the new chart
Very easy to read and very useful :D
Also It seems like the Diddy boards and G&W have a sortve have a dispute
Diddys say its G&Ws advantage and G&W says its Diddys advantage???

lol the official Diddy match-up thread has very few ratios, so i used info from the post 13 of that same thread (which comes from an older match-up thread) to fill empty squares, though its kind of outdated.... anyways, i'll leave it this way, with this back-up info unless the Diddy community wants this back-up info deleted.

(kind of off-topic: as a G&W main i think the matchup is in Diddy's favor)

 

[Crystanium]

I scrolled through Xyro77's thread, i found some oppinions and ratios, but i still insist that they must be put in the first post as an official statement before i update the chart; because that way i'll feel its the general consensus of the entire community instead of just someone's personal oppinion. I also highly suggest that if you've already discussed some matchups in the past, like v/s Bowser, go ahead and "make pressure" over Xyro77 to put that resume and the ratios in the first post. Also you can put some other ratios meanwhile there, waiting for a deep discuss of those matchups later.
I was searching your thread too but i didn't find it ._.

Change at least Bowser and Kirby for now. I don't think the Kirby board would have a complete match-up guide as they say if there wasn't any agreement between the Samus and Kirby board. I've also discussed with the Bowser mains in the past. I went beyond "theory" when it came to gathering information and coming with a conclusion of the match-up ratio.

 

[AndreVeloso]

Thanks for updating the contrast

 

[Rajam]

Change at least Bowser and Kirby for now. I don't think the Kirby board would have a complete match-up guide as they say if there wasn't any agreement between the Samus and Kirby board. I've also discussed with the Bowser mains in the past. I went beyond "theory" when it came to gathering information and coming with a conclusion of the match-up ratio.

No image available.
Bowser
Match-Up: 65-35
Match-Up Discussion Between Bowser and Samus​

A new [color="Red"][Creatures][/color] entry has been downloaded to your Log Book.

Morphology: Bowser
Fire-breathing bipedal dragon. Hardy and barbed carapace is extremely durable.

Due to his massive size and weight, Bowser can tolerate a number of attacks, both direct
and indirect, long before he is sent off the stage. While his movement is slow, his attacks
are fairly quick and powerful. However, he relies mostly on close-combat. Exploit this flaw
by means of long-range combat. As long as Bowser is outside of your range, he is harmless.

Ground​

It seems that Bowser does better when grounded, rather than when he is aerial. He has a lot more attacks to choose from while he is on the ground, and much of his attacks can be deadly if they make contact. Because of Bowser's large size, it is only right to believe that Bowser's offense and defense are very powerful and can deal out a lot of damage in a short amount of time. Yet, due to his large size, he's an easy target to hit. When Bowser is grounded, one of his favorite tactics to perform is his Whirling Fortress (Up+B) out of his shield. This is very useful, because it's quick, powerful, and it hits Bowser's opponent upward. It also doesn't leave Bowser open so as to be punished.

Bowser's Whirling Fortress is capable of knocking his opponent out vertically if at a good amount of damage percent. While Samus is the seventh heaviest character in the game, her vertical survivability lands thirteenth in rank. The Whirling Fortress is commonly used out of shield as well, if you get too close to Bowser. Usually when Bowser uses his Whirling Fortress out of shield, he tends to be defensive. The way you can deal with this is by firing a Homing Missile at Bowser to cause him to shield. He may keep his shield up, since he will see a Homing Missile and will not desire to get hit, and he will see you coming at him. If you tend to use your dash attack while approaching Bowser, it may throw him off if instead you use your dash grab.

Aside from this if getting close, Bowser can shield-grab Samus and inflict some damage and wait for her to be released. Upon this, Bowser may use his neutral A twice, or he might use his f-tilt or d-tilt. Flying Slam (Forward+B) is also an option. It is possible to get out of the second hit if Bowser uses his neutral, and the same with his d-tilt. It probably isn't possible to get away from his f-tilt or Flying Slam, though. Try not to use your dash attack too much, and if you do, use it late. There are two reasons for this. The first reason is that if you do hit Bowser, you'll do 10% damage on him instead of 6%. The second reason is you'll end up right behind Bowser, which gets you out of the danger of being shield-grabbed.

Air​

While Bowser may not be an aerial character, that doesn't necessarily keep him from attacking in the air. Bowser can perform his Flying Slam (Forward+B) and jump infinitely in the process. Don't think for a moment that Bowser will not use this if the match doesn't look like it will be in his favor. He could be at high percent while you might not be, and all he has to do is use his Flying Slam to KO you. Keep in mind, however, that the one who is at lower damage percent gets control of the momentum and direction of the Flying Slam. If you two are on your last stock, Bowser can win if he successfully executes the "Bowsercide" on you. If Bowser tends to use his Flying Slam to jump infinitely, use Homing Missiles and z-air to shut him down. Also be sure to stay away from the edge.

Two other attacks that Bowser possess are his u-air and f-air. Both are capable of KO'ing at moderate damage. If you're above Bowser, chances are, he'll try to use his u-air, which can cause Samus to lose a stock if her damage percent is in the mid-eighties to nineties. This simply makes the u-air Bowser's best aerial attack. This might vary, depending on the stage that it selected, as well as whether or not you were about to land upon a walk-through platform that is higher than normal ground level. As for Bowser's f-air, it may usually be performed if Samus is off the stage. So, in a way, it is something Bowser might use to edge-guard.

Another attack that Bowser can perform is his Fire Breath (B). It is dubbed "Wave Fire" by Dias4Flac, and is noted for being able to be used with Bowser's infinite jump. This attack can be used to punish Bowser's opponent in the air. What is more, the Wave Fire will cause Bowser to move slightly forward. If caught in Bowser's Fire Breath, use directional influence as quickly as possible, since the attack can do a considerable amount of damage if left unchecked. This might mean that Samus will be unable to use her f-air against Bowser, unless she happens to be slightly higher than Bowser or if she uses f-air first.

To take advantage of Bowser while he is in the air, you want to use your Homing Missiles in conjunction with z-air. As long as Bowser is in the air, his options are limited, since he cannot use his Whirling Fortress out of shield, let alone, perform the Whirling Fortress in a safe and unpunishable manner. Bowser can attempt to air-dodge the Homing Missiles, but since the Homing Missiles slow down and because Bowser is such a large target, air-dodging may be rendered useless. For this reason, if Bowser does air-dodge often, use the Homing Missile along with f-air or u-air, since both aerials do consecutive hits.

Edge-Guard​

It seems that Bowser has a number of options to choose from when he is edge-guarding. Some are better than others. Bowser can jump out at you from the stage and use either his f-air or u-air on you. He may also decide to Bowsercide you if the player is feeling confident. That, of course, shouldn't be your biggest worry, since it might not be a common tactic to use. Fortunately for Samus players, you can execute your Bomb Jump to stall and then move toward the stage when Bowser needs to also head back to the stage. Still, you should be cautious since Bowser could try to edge-hog or simply jump off the edge and use his second jump to attack and his Whirling Fortress to return to the edge. Upon returning to the stage, it would be wise to use Samus' Homing Missiles to hinder Bowser from even attempting to jump out at you.

When Bowser is on the stage but is still edge-guarding, he may choose either to use his Fire Breath or d-tilt. Samus will be safer if Bowser uses these as his way of edge-guarding, since Samus can use her Grappling Beam to grab onto the stage. Just be sure that Bowser doesn't decide to edge-hog at the time you are going to use your Grappling Beam or your chances of returning might be minimized. If you happen to return to the edge and Bowser is right there trying to use his Fire Breath or d-tilt, remember that you can let go of the edge and use your Screw Attack to grab onto the edge again. As long as you do this, Bowser can't do anything to you, unless he decides to do something different. This is a tactic I like to use, not just on Bowser, but on any of my opponents. As a Samus player, you know your options in order to return to the stage once you're on the edge.

Edge-Game​

Bowser has a few edge-games to select from. I won't bring up Bowser returning from the edge by tapping neutral A in order to hit you if you're close. Instead, there are other attacks that Bowser has that he can perform while he is on the edge. He can let go of the edge and use his second jump to perform either his u-air or f-air. These aren't really fancy attacks, and you won't have to worry about them if you're not close to the edge. Another one of Bowser's edge-game is known as "Return Fire." What Bowser does is jumps up from the edge and onto the stage, already using his Fire Breath. Again, as long as you're not close to the edge, you don't have to worry about this.

Recovery​

Bowser's recovery isn't excellent in any way, at least vertically. You might liken that to Donkey Kong's recovery. (It's slightly better than Donkey Kong's.) Still, it's amazing to see how far Bowser can go with the Whirling Fortress when he is returning to the edge horizontally. Take note of this. MrEh has noted that the initial frames from Bowser's Whirling Fortress has invincible frames, so it is best to wait it out a quick second before deciding to go out and spiking him. It might just be better to use Samus' Homing Missiles and her z-air for this one, unless you really enjoy using your d-air to spike your opponents.

I'll go ahead and change the Samus v/s Bowser ratio this time. Though i must insist: all this info and ratios should be in the first post of the official match-up thread of each community because that's when i feel it has been the final decision of an entire community. I'll only change ratios from now on only procceding that way; discussions about the matchups should be in the respectives threads; i only copy that info (the ratios), without entering into major details or further discussions.

 

[Crystanium]

I'll go ahead and change the Samus v/s Bowser ratio this time. Though i must insist: all this info and ratios should be in the first post of the official match-up thread of each community because that's when i feel it has been the final decision of an entire community. I'll only change ratios from now on only procceding that way; discussions about the matchups should be in the respectives threads; i only copy that info (the ratios), without entering into major details or further discussions.

That, however, is my work, and the way Xyro77 wants it isn't anything like the way I set it up. Thanks for changing that.

 

[Ussi]

Just pointing out, the Ike thread go updated o_O (someone had to bump it lol)

 

[B!squick]

Well, it seems I was mistaken if you don't already know. We did decide on a dubious 40:60 Pikachu advantage. Maybe I'm just bad, I don't know. :/

 

[Uffe]

Pretty good, but I see some things that should be slightly changed.

 

[Rajam]

Just pointing out, the Ike thread go updated o_O (someone had to bump it lol)

Thanks a lot for the info

Pretty good, but I see some things that should be slightly changed.

Tell me; im taking most oppinions into account

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

so cant you make the matchup from i.e. ZSS vs falco, it says 70 disadvantage in one row, but the other is empty, wouldnt it be 30? this way you can fill in alot more.

also around the middle theres **** like falco vs snake is 45/45, what? could you look into the threads and take the more reasonable matchup% instead of taking the falco one in falco and snake one in snake?

 

[DZhou]

Thanks for compiling a new chart.

 

[Rajam]

so cant you make the matchup from i.e. ZSS vs falco, it says 70 disadvantage in one row, but the other is empty, wouldnt it be 30? this way you can fill in alot more.

also around the middle theres **** like falco vs snake is 45/45, what? could you look into the threads and take the more reasonable matchup% instead of taking the falco one in falco and snake one in snake?

The idea of the chart is to put both versions of each match-up instead of the average or the "best" ratio. That's why im not making falco 70:30 ZSS despite ZSS boards say its a 30:70 disadvantage for her; i'll wait for the falco boards' discussion about this match-up

Same for Falco v/s Snake, the chart put both versions rather than what i could find as the best ratio; because the idea of the chart is showing what each board thinks about the rest of the cast

 

[AndreVeloso]

This chart can be used really effectively in discussing future tier lists, as well as picking a main and a secondary as a counter-pick

 

[GameyHarp]

Finally nice to have all the matchups in one place, great post.

 

[AndreVeloso]

The chart on the jigglypuff guide doesn't show many match-ups. Check the descriptions underneath, that is the latest for the guide anyway.

 

[Rajam]

The chart on the jigglypuff guide doesn't show many match-ups. Check the descriptions underneath, that is the latest for the guide anyway.

? I checked the descriptions, but besides the Ice Climbers ratio, i didn't find anything new ._.

 

[brinboy789]

change pika vs MK matchup to 55:45 MK

 

[B!squick]

change pika vs MK matchup to 55:45 MK

You have a lack of contradictory information other than your own opinion, that is why you fail...

 

[brinboy789]

You have a lack of contradictory information other than your own opinion, that is why you fail...

its been agreed on by both boards

 

[Rajam]

its been agreed on by both boards

?? Where is that (links plase)

I just checked both official matchup threads and neither has the matchup as MK 55:45 Pikachu. Remember i'm taking the ratios from the threads linked in the first post, and only if those threads have the ratios officialy put in their first post already

 

[AndreVeloso]

? I checked the descriptions, but besides the Ice Climbers ratio, i didn't find anything new ._.

Well, at least one more square got filled up

 

[Ochobobo]

Very nice chart! Should be useful...

 

[AndreVeloso]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199581

This is the actual Jigglypuff guide and has match-ups to all the characters on it decided by the Jigglypuff board. The one used to update the chart actually stopped and that is why there is so little. The match-up chart is halfway down the page.

 

[Rajam]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199581

This is the actual Jigglypuff guide and has match-ups to all the characters on it decided by the Jigglypuff board. The one used to update the chart actually stopped and that is why there is so little. The match-up chart is halfway down the page.

Thanks a lot. chart updated with these new ratios