Matchups Chart & Lists - Updated: 29/Oct

[TP]

Though our chart does not reflect it, the Ganon board recently did a quick overview to see if any of our matchup numbers were clearly outdate or wrong. Here was the result.

March 19th, 2009

Samus match-up updated: 25:75
Marth match-up updated: 20:80
Pikachu match-up updated: 15:85
Squirtle match-up updated: 35:65
Toon Link match-up updated: 35:65

 

[akkon888]

I like how you organized the characters the same way as the current tier list has it. That makes it really easy to read. Well done.

 

[brinboy789]

?? Where is that (links plase)

I just checked both official matchup threads and neither has the matchup as MK 55:45 Pikachu. Remember i'm taking the ratios from the threads linked in the first post, and only if those threads have the ratios officialy put in their first post already

its been agreed after the 0-60 CG pikachu has on MK was found

 

[Alus]

May you edit The matchup between Lucario and snake to 40:60 snake...
The majority of the lucario boards agrees so... even though I dissagree.

 

[Rajam]

Though our chart does not reflect it, the Ganon board recently did a quick overview to see if any of our matchup numbers were clearly outdate or wrong. Here was the result.

March 19th, 2009

Samus match-up updated: 25:75
Marth match-up updated: 20:80
Pikachu match-up updated: 15:85
Squirtle match-up updated: 35:65
Toon Link match-up updated: 35:65

its been agreed after the 0-60 CG pikachu has on MK was found

May you edit The matchup between Lucario and snake to 40:60 snake...
The majority of the lucario boards agrees so... even though I dissagree.

Guys, i appreciate your help, but please support your ratios with the links to the threads and post # with the info ... i couldn't find anything and i cannot change the ratios without the proof of the boards agreeing into that

 

[ph00tbag]

Just so you know, even though Snakeee's match-up thread is fairly accurate, and may give a good impression, it's a few months old, and doesn't necessarily reflect the current opinion of ZSS mains.

 

[Some_Kind_of_JokÈ?]

the wario matchups seem hardly right...

i dont know about the others, but the wario one is just not that good.

i like the layout and the idea, and the easyness of the chart, but if the matchups arent right it doesnt do much good

 

[B!squick]

i like the layout and the idea, and the easyness of the chart, but if the matchups arent right it doesnt do much good

He provides ALL of his sources. Take it up with the source then if you think the match ups "aren't right." Look, I'll even provide ANOTHER link it so you can't miss it:

WARIO'S MATCH UP NUMBERS FOUND HERE!

And as you can plainly see, it is very correct.

 

[MK26]

Cool. I like this chart.

Just a suggestion, maybe place an asterisk above the matchups that are agreed on by both boards (agreed 70-30 or further apart would be a large advantage, agreed 60-40 or 65-35 would be an advantage, agreed between 55-45 and 45-55 is neutral)

You dont need to differentiate between the different categories, but just showing the agreements would be great.

 

[Rajam]

Just so you know, even though Snakeee's match-up thread is fairly accurate, and may give a good impression, it's a few months old, and doesn't necessarily reflect the current opinion of ZSS mains.

If i understood right, do you want to take out the ratio ZSS 40:60 Snake? mmm i dont know if take this thing out; if you think is outdated you should tell the ZSS community to erase that ratio, update it, or put some kind of advise next to it saying the ratio and the resume below is old, but i guess that, as long as it remains there on the first post with all the other ratios, i'll leave it here in the chart as well

the wario matchups seem hardly right...

i dont know about the others, but the wario one is just not that good.

i like the layout and the idea, and the easyness of the chart, but if the matchups arent right it doesnt do much good

??? Do you mean the ratios of this thread (DMG's Waft-tastic Wario Guide) or another?

Cool. I like this chart.

Just a suggestion, maybe place an asterisk above the matchups that are agreed on by both boards (agreed 70-30 or further apart would be a large advantage, agreed 60-40 or 65-35 would be an advantage, agreed between 55-45 and 45-55 is neutral)

You dont need to differentiate between the different categories, but just showing the agreements would be great.

Good idea, though i dont know if i'll put an asterisk, i guess i'll make something about the ratios of the matchups in which both boards agree

 

[Ussi]

Guys, i appreciate your help, but please support your ratios with the links to the threads and post # with the info ... i couldn't find anything and i cannot change the ratios without the proof of the boards agreeing into that

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226343 Ganon has the new Numbers in there.

 

[AndreVeloso]

Good, Jigglypuff has been updated, looking very complete now.

 

[Kataefi]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210250 Zelda's got some numbers revised ^^ Also... we'll be rediscussing soon so numbers could change.

 

[Alus]

Guys, i appreciate your help, but please support your ratios with the links to the threads and post # with the info ... i couldn't find anything and i cannot change the ratios without the proof of the boards agreeing into that

I apologize...

here is a thread export...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227227

 

[BOB SAGET!]

i think matchup charts r intresting. but i personally believe that they arent 100% correct because some match ups can be based on opinion.

 

[Ryusuta]

I'm surprised the Ganon boards see themselves as a 15/85 disadvantage against Yoshi. Certainly, Yoshi is at a decided advantage with his CG-to-spike, but Ganon's not THAT helpless against him, and has a marked KO advantage. Overall the Ganon boards seem a bit TOO pessimistic about an admittedly bad character.

 

[TP]

I'm surprised the Ganon boards see themselves as a 15/85 disadvantage against Yoshi. Certainly, Yoshi is at a decided advantage with his CG-to-spike, but Ganon's not THAT helpless against him, and has a marked KO advantage. Overall the Ganon boards seem a bit TOO pessimistic about an admittedly bad character.

The guy in charge of the matchup chart is the most pessimistic guy on the board. He makes threads about how Ganondorf is the worst character in the game and tried to call Ganon-Olimar a 5:95 matchup. I personally think the Yoshi matchup is 30:70 or so since certain stages can pretty much eliminate the chaingrab, but whatever.

 

[Ryusuta]

I'm inclined to agree with you, Prince. Yes, Ganon is disadvantaged in virtually every match-up, but not THAT disadvantaged.

 

[B!squick]

i think matchup charts r intresting. but i personally believe that they arent 100% correct because some match ups can be based on opinion.

.... I'll be nice only because of your name. But the silliness of posts like this make me want to strangle kittens.

1) ALL match ups are based on opinion.

2) This IS the most correct match up chart you will find as it contains the most up to date data from each character board.

Thank you.

 

[Ryusuta]

2) This IS the most correct match up chart you will find as it contains the most up to date data from each character board.

Not to step on your toes or anything, but this isn't true. In particular, the thread used to cite the Yoshi matchups is no longer used by the Yoshi boards, and I believe might even be locked (though that part I'm not certain about).

 

[B!squick]

Not to step on your toes or anything, but this isn't true. In particular, the thread used to cite the Yoshi matchups is no longer used by the Yoshi boards, and I believe might even be locked (though that part I'm not certain about).

And the topic creator can't do anything about it unless someone tells him or he stumbles across the new thread on his own. It's extremely accurate based on the information he has.

 

[Rajam]

Thanks a lot for the new threads you have submitted; most of them (and their ratios of course) were added. I'm still thinking about what to do (what kind of mark can i put) with the matchups with contradicting ratios (the sum isn't 100)... i guess i'll figure out something later

Also, the title of this thread includes the word "list", that's because im planning on doing a list or ranking based on the chart. It must not be considered a tier list at all, just some kind of "match-up ranking" or whatever. Wario is ready so i'll put him as an example later

Well thats all. Again thanks for all the help and support

 

[B!squick]

Let's see... how about a "!" for a mark? It's slim so it fits well and it's still noticable.

For a list, I guess you could just figure out everyone's average (add up the numbers for the rows and divide by how many) and a counter average (the columns) and then just average that. That way you don't have to wait for everyone to finish and you can just update it as you go along and whatnot.

 

[RedAndBlueTheme]

Wow this chart is really helpful. Thanks for putting this up; I've been looking for one for a while.

 

[Ryusuta]

And the topic creator can't do anything about it unless someone tells him or he stumbles across the new thread on his own. It's extremely accurate based on the information he has.

Umm... check out the Yoshi boards. There are SEVERAL threads, one for each match-up. Granted, the discussion could be and should be centralized, but it's still there.

 

[wangston]

sexy chart. good work. This match up chart is really easy to use. Thanks.

 

[AndreVeloso]

Thanks a lot for the new threads you have submitted; most of them (and their ratios of course) were added. I'm still thinking about what to do (what kind of mark can i put) with the matchups with contradicting ratios (the sum isn't 100)... i guess i'll figure out something later

Also, the title of this thread includes the word "list", that's because im planning on doing a list or ranking based on the chart. It must not be considered a tier list at all, just some kind of "match-up ranking" or whatever. Wario is ready so i'll put him as an example later

Well thats all. Again thanks for all the help and support

You can add the ratio together and figure out an average. For example if the Bowser boards say they are 40-60 against Kirby and the Kirby boards think they are 70-30, you can take the match up as 65-35 and give Kirby a +15 (from 50, even match-up) against bowser. This will solve the problem of Game and Watch and Diddy both giving themselves a 40 - 60 disadvantage. The average score would be 50-50 and a +0 can be added as the match-up is deemed neutral. Still loving the chart, maybe you could add another chart to have 2 charts side by side. The first one is still genius though.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

its good but i mean come on. metaknight has no weakness to any character. BS, i main meta knight but he is overrated.

 

[B!squick]

its good but i mean come on. metaknight has no weakness to any character. BS, i main meta knight but he is overrated.

Troll poorly much?

 

[Delvro]

Troll poorly much?

Yep. Problem is everyone has already argued for and against metaknight so much in the past six months that nobody cares anymore

On topic, I do feel that character boards in general understate match up statistics. When someone says it's a 70-30 match-up, the other guy doesn't really have a 30% chance to win. If they did, than low tier characters wouldn't be doing so absolutely rotten on Ankoku's list... especially when you figure in very skilled players that play these low tier characters at tournaments.


Let's say we get Metaknight versus PKMN Trainer in a grand finals match of any tournament (equal skill). the matchup is 65-35 We use a binomial distribution for a set of best of 5... Combination (n,k) p^k * (1-p)^(n-k)
10 * (.65^3) * (.35^2) + 5 * (.65^4) * (.35^1) + (.65^5) = 76.5% chance that metaknight will win.

Does anyone REALLY think that in a grand finals match of best of 5, a skilled PKMN Trainer will beat a skilled metaknight 23.5% of the time?

 

[B!squick]

Does anyone REALLY think that in a grand finals match of best of 5, a skilled PKMN Trainer will beat a skilled metaknight 23.5% of the time?

Sounds about right, yeah.

In other news, Luigi vs Bowser numbers have been decided upon. Now on Zelda.

 

[AndreVeloso]

I would like to see the Wario and Luigi boards discuss there match-up. This is an example where this chart can't help us.

 

[Delvro]

I would like to see the Wario and Luigi boards discuss there match-up. This is an example where this chart can't help us.

so true....

 

[Jman115]

where is the chart?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Never mind.

 

[Bellioes]

where is the chart?

On the first page -_-

 

[Jman115]

It is not showing up on my computer, I see a bunch of web page links but that is it.

 

[B!squick]

Here's the link for the image, try it.

http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/vv183/RajamBop/Match-upcharttier-8.jpg

 

[Rajam]

Hi, sorry i havent updated it in a while; the updates will be frozen until 12-Apr because of travel stuffs :/. Meanwhile you can send links of new threads and/or updated ratios; that would be very appreciated. Bye until then

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You could probably change the ZSS/ROB matchup to reflect the new infinite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCAaOhH6UUg&fmt=18 Like 20:80?