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"Medical Records"- Dr. Mario Video/Critique Thread!

Kwam$tack$

Kwam$tack$

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onehundredhitz said:
You disrespected Roy so hard in those videos. He should sue you for medical malpractice.

Hahaha, those were some sick strings, man. Those are the levels I'm trying to get on with Doc, but it's kinda hard being on 3DS. I need to invest in a Wii U so I can play better.
Click to expand...
lol thanks man. and if u ever do get a wiiu let me know so I can add u
 
WeirdJoe27

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Eight_SixtyFour said:
Chef Pac (i.e. Koolaid) repping Doc at a local. He won the tournament, but he did not go solo Doc. He played Pac Man and Sheik as well. I've posted the videos of him using Doc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np-6bLgXrpE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYFPbdNGF7A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-95yirWeUdk
Click to expand...
I just came across the first video last night, good stuff! I wasn't familiar with Chef Pac, but he plays a mean Doc. I'd love to see more of him in the future.
 
Eight_SixtyFour

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Sari

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I'd like some feedback on my Dr. Mario. I'll be honest, I'm really bad with Doc (as shown by this match) though I'm looking to get better. Sorry for the bad quality.

 
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WeirdJoe27

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Sari said:
I'd like some feedback on my Dr. Mario. I'll be honest, I'm really bad with Doc (as shown by this match) though I'm looking to get better. Sorry for the bad quality.

Click to expand...
Honestly, not bad at all. I'd say you might want to zone some more. Doc's pills are one of his greatest assets. Zoning helps force your opponent into doing something that you can punish. Doc is great at punishing. Also, you seem somewhat aggressive (which isn't always bad), but Doc is more of a defensive character. Other than that, I'd say just continue to work at it, you've got a decent foundation already.
 
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Specs808

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Sari said:
I'd like some feedback on my Dr. Mario. I'll be honest, I'm really bad with Doc (as shown by this match) though I'm looking to get better. Sorry for the bad quality.

Click to expand...
Overall, not bad. You've got your short hop bairs down.

My critique:

1. At low percentage, use down throw to up tilt like regular Mario. It should work well on Fox. If you do down throw and only follow it up with a single up air, you might as well just do a back throw for similar damage.

2. Your recovery with Dr. Tornado is getting you killed.

3. You should use Dr. Tornado as an edge guard against fox. Tornado can beat his up b recovery for an early gimp.

4. Stop being the aggressor when your opponent is baiting you. The fox was nothing special, but he was playing defensively. Force him to play the neutral.

5. Learn to do up b out of shield.
 
onehundredhitz

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Got a couple more of vids from earlier today. All help and criticism welcome. I keep trying to go for those sick combo strings I've been seeing around the forums, but they never quite work out for me. :(


 
WeirdJoe27

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Kwam$tack$ said:
Not a match but feel free to critique the technique anyway. Hope it helps anyone who needs it
Tutorial: How to Stop Ness's PK Thunder (Near-to-Stage, Far-From-Stage, + Options) [HD]
Click to expand...
Good, but I'd like to see it used consistently against an actual human opponent. CPU are predictable. Also, the last one killed you, so that option wouldn't work if you were tied for stocks or down a stock. Of course, just like with any move, it's dependent on many variables, so that has to be considered as well.

As I said before, I really love the technique and it's a nice tool to have in your back pocket, but I'll have to see some more of it in actual, competitive gameplay before making a final decision on it's overall effectiveness.
 
Kwam$tack$

Kwam$tack$

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WeirdJoe27 said:
Good, but I'd like to see it used consistently against an actual human opponent. CPU are predictable. Also, the last one killed you, so that option wouldn't work if you were tied for stocks or down a stock. Of course, just like with any move, it's dependent on many variables, so that has to be considered as well.

As I said before, I really love the technique and it's a nice tool to have in your back pocket, but I'll have to see some more of it in actual, competitive gameplay before making a final decision on it's overall effectiveness.
Click to expand...
yeah I know. funny part is when I got the idea mid-game I did it pretty easily on the player. it was when i went to training and tried to repeat it on a computer consistently that I had to try for a few minutes to get it down lol. I'd definitely plan on using this if you're up a stock on ness. why not? even if we're tied, if im sure i can disrupt the ball like on the last stock in the vid, I can still jump and upb still while ness falls to his death. I just wouldnt try it down a stock unless I really needed it
 
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WeirdJoe27

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Eight_SixtyFour said:
http://www.twitch.tv/vabengalsmash/v/9351134 -Yo Anti! Goddamn. Not a lot of Tornado usage, but them Down-Throw to Fair combos! He stops playing him after 45 mins.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this, I don't believe I've seen ANTi's Doc before. Crazy stuff. I'm not sure if Shofu and VaBengal aren't familiar with the matchup or what, but damn! Bengal is so salty because he gets bodied by a "low tier" while using his top tier garbage. Love it!
 
Eight_SixtyFour

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WeirdJoe27 said:
Thanks for posting this, I don't believe I've seen ANTi's Doc before. Crazy stuff. I'm not sure if Shofu and VaBengal aren't familiar with the matchup or what, but damn! Bengal is so salty because he gets bodied by a "low tier" while using his top tier garbage. Love it!
Click to expand...
Don't discredit him just because he plays zss. He's a good player and he knows his character. And stop with this low tier hero worship. I'm more impressed with people who are good.

I still don't think Doc is low tier. He is under-represented. Btw, check out Kudemo's channel. He has not posted anything here as of late, but he uploads a lot of vids. His Doc is worth watching.
 
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WeirdJoe27

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Eight_SixtyFour said:
Don't discredit him just because he plays zss. He's a good player and he knows his character. And stop with this low tier hero worship. I'm more impressed with people who are good.

I still don't think Doc is low tier. He is under-represented. Btw, check out Kudemo's channel. He has not posted anything here as of late, but he uploads a lot of vids. His Doc is worth watching.
Click to expand...
I'm not taking anything away from Bengal or Shofu, my comments were mostly said in jest. I guess that doesn't come across online. He, himself, admits to being salty. Also, in many of my previous posts, I admit to not buying into the high vs low tier stuff. Players make the game, not the characters. Sorry for any confusion there, I'll be more careful with my wording of replies in the future. That being said, I still thoroughly enjoyed the video. Great Doc play is very enjoyable to watch.

I'll have to check out Kudemo's stuff. I think I've seen his videos on YouTube and, if I remember correctly, his Doc is very impressive. Does he have a Twitch channel as well (or were you referring to his YouTube)?
 
Eight_SixtyFour

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WeirdJoe27 said:
I'm not taking anything away from Bengal or Shofu, my comments were mostly said in jest. I guess that doesn't come across online. He, himself, admits to being salty. Also, in many of my previous posts, I admit to not buying into the high vs low tier stuff. Players make the game, not the characters. Sorry for any confusion there, I'll be more careful with my wording of replies in the future. That being said, I still thoroughly enjoyed the video. Great Doc play is very enjoyable to watch.

I'll have to check out Kudemo's stuff. I think I've seen his videos on YouTube and, if I remember correctly, his Doc is very impressive. Does he have a Twitch channel as well (or were you referring to his YouTube)?
Click to expand...
I meant his youtube channel. Just search for Kudemo. Very aggressive Doc player, uses Tornado a lot.

No worries, I just dislike people who buy into this "low tier" hero and "top tier" villain mentality. People play to win... If it's said in jest, it's ok. There's definitely a gap between character effectiveness, but we don't really know all of it.
 
WeirdJoe27

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Eight_SixtyFour said:
I meant his youtube channel. Just search for Kudemo. Very aggressive Doc player, uses Tornado a lot.

No worries, I just dislike people who buy into this "low tier" hero and "top tier" villain mentality. People play to win... If it's said in jest, it's ok. There's definitely a gap between character effectiveness, but we don't really know all of it.
Click to expand...
Cool, cool.... I think we're on the same page here. Just checked out some of Kudemo's videos. Love that aggressive style of play in Smash (I'm not a fan of camping or running). I prefer to play more aggressive myself, but tend to get too aggressive at times. It can be tough to bring the pressure with Doc and stay out of vulnerable positions.
 
Eight_SixtyFour

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Baby_Sneak said:
Nobody gonna critique me tho??? Ok fam I see how it is
Click to expand...
I'll have a look. I wanted to watch your video and another guy's video in more detail.

onehundredhitz said:
Got a couple more of vids from earlier today. All help and criticism welcome. I keep trying to go for those sick combo strings I've been seeing around the forums, but they never quite work out for me. :(


Click to expand...
I guess you need to Up-B out of shield more. And against For Glory players, keep it very simple. They don't really learn anything, and they do a lot of things over and over again.

You're using Down-B more, which is nice, but you have to be a bit more careful when using it close to the ground.

Baby_Sneak said:
here's me
Click to expand...
I like the ledge drop Up-B punish at 1:11. Simple, yet effective.

When recovering, use Down-B first to get decent horizontal distance, then Double Jump. The vertical height from Down-B is poor, so don't waste the double jump's momentum to get barely any height.

Use Up Air to cover yourself when coming back onto the stage. Or go deep and surprise them with a Up-B to grab onto the ledge.

You got the read at 2:16. Good job.

You need to use Down-B more. You can use it to: punish rolls and spot dodges, mix up your landings (big thing for you here, as you didn't seem to vary your options when landing), beating out other attacks and edge-guarding (something you didn't do too much of). It's, imo, Doc's most versatile move. Watch guys like Kudemo, Chef Pac and Rice to see how to use it. Even Boss figured out that you can use it as an edgeguarding tool.
 
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sjb.dario

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Doc vs Duck Hunt

I'm still not used to the MU. What could I have done better in this match? Also, what are some effective ways to approach Duck Hunt?

Many thanks.
 
sjb.dario

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Here's another one. The first three matches show my matches as Doc.
Plz halp.
 
onehundredhitz

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sjb.dario said:
Here's another one. The first three matches show my matches as Doc.
Plz halp.
Click to expand...
I'm not really good at critiquing, because half the time I don't even know what I'm talking about, but I'll give this a shot. So here goes:

1st match - You had some really good mix ups and did well with creating space with the pills. However I do feel like you challenged Luigi a bit too much on his buttons, which sometimes harmed you. Luigi has insane button speed and priority, so that can be a bit overwhelming for Doc, but just keep your head cool and you'll be okay. Find a nice balance of offense and defense with Doc, especially against Luigi, and learn when to put the pressure on him. Good sh*t with that edgeguard at the end, though.

2nd match - Again, you created some really good spacing with your use of the pills. However, even though it's good you played defensive and respected his attacks, I think you respected him a bit too much during this match, which ultimately costed you the entire thing. Besides the derp at the end (lol), there was a lot you could've done to kill his game, but you went way defensive instead of going offensive in the key moments, which is totally understandable.

3rd match - Good spacing with the pills again, but you kinda overdid it this time. He knew what you were trying to do, and he waited for the opportune time to come in for the punish. I think this match you both equally respected one other's space, but he capitalized on it a bit more and put the numbers on you. But you balanced out your offense and defense, which is good. However, you should really get into the habit of using Up B OoS to punish whiffed moves, and use tornado for shield pressure.


Again, I am horrible at critiquing on things, because I don't think I give good advice from the way I play, but hopefully you find some use in my words. You're definitely on the right track with Doc though, so keep on prescribing the pain medicine to the patients.
 
Eight_SixtyFour

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sjb.dario said:
Doc vs Duck Hunt

I'm still not used to the MU. What could I have done better in this match? Also, what are some effective ways to approach Duck Hunt?

Many thanks.
Click to expand...
Pay more attention to what the Duck Hunt is doing. The extent of his zoning was using clay pigeon and gunmen and then doing a dash attack (which is unsafe). He also throws out Smash attacks for no reason.

The edgeguards you were getting with Tornado were fine, but considering how vulnerable Duck Hunt is when recovering, you should have caped.

You got some nice roll reads, but you mistimed them (FG problems). Having said that, if you miss a punish, esp. with a move as punishable as down smash, shield.

Don't throw out so many forward smashes, even as roll reads. It's not the easiest move to land. You need to get a good read with this move.
 
Eight_SixtyFour

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sjb.dario said:
Here's another one. The first three matches show my matches as Doc.
Plz halp.
Click to expand...
You need to stop throwing pills at close ranges. That Luigi wasn't doing much to punish it, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Watch what your opponents are doing. So many mindless Down-Bs and Side Bs (the latter of which has so much recovery).

Use Tornado more in this match up. Stall with it, use it to challenge Luigi's moves, use it for punishes that you don't think you can get otherwise.

Shield more. A lot more. Your opponents hardly go for grabs and hit buttons a lot.

I don't remember the specifics, but Luigi's Down Throw to Fair to Fair isn't a true combo. The Fair to Fair string can be interrupted with a quick attack. In your case, use nair or Up-B.

Up-B OOS. Do stuff out of shield more, like Nair and Bair. And cape Luigi's side B.
 
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sjb.dario

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Many thanks, onehundredhitz and Eight_SixtyFour. I'll try to implement what you guys said into my Docman gameplay.
Man, I gotta learn that Up-B OOS. I've known about it since forever ago, and yet I still can't do it out of habit.
 
Eight_SixtyFour

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divade said:
Hey, building on my Dr. Mario game, here's a playlist of some recent fights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apwwph8G_Hw&list=PLy-TO_xuaA18e4Wt8UZBN5ocQ4qQT0FDc
Please critique,
(tiny Q, when does U-throw kill? ~160?)
Click to expand...
  • Down Throw more. You get more out of down throw than forward throw. Forward throw's low lag allows you to throw a pill out.
  • Fair off stage less. Tornado off stage is a good edge guard option. Use it more.
  • Watch your opponents more. That Marth tends to do the same attack three times or more and hits buttons whenever he gets the opportunity to (e.g. get up attack with no hesitation, three shield breakers in a row). That Captain Falcon always Raptor Boosts as an approach option. That Kirby always uses dair (which is bad because it leaves him vulnerable and it's slow). That Robin player loves throwing out down smashes, dash attacks and arc fires, all of which are unsafe. You need to take advantage of these habits and bait them. Space with bair, nair, down tilt, and down-B.
  • Up-B out of shield.
  • Roll less. It's safer to just dash and shield or dash and jump. Watch your opponents' roll habits (FG is great for this, since they think it's a mobility option :dizzy:)
  • Use Bair out of shield more. It's a much better punish tool than Forward Smash due to its' speed and damage.
  • You need to remember that when an opponent regrabs the ledge without touching the ground, they no longer have invincibility. Doc can take advantage of this as his down smash hits below the stage. You can also use the sheet to trump them by doing turnaround sheets on the ledge (the animation is cancelled).
  • Don't get hit by Falcon Punch... ever :( In that case, you could have just jumped.
  • Ideally I would say do not play on For Glory :laugh:. Roll spamming, c stick flicking idiots of the highest order.
 
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divade

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Thanks a lot I'll look into these! (with the falcon punch, well I air dodged cause he short hopped, couldnt move yet I'm fairly sure.)
So I should try and stuff Kirby before the dair activates? I know getting caught in it is an easy combo starter for Kirby so I tried to keep my distance from it.
 
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Eight_SixtyFour

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divade said:
Thanks a lot I'll look into these! (with the falcon punch, well I air dodged cause he short hopped, couldnt move yet I'm fairly sure.)
So I should try and stuff Kirby before the dair activates? I know getting caught in it is an easy combo starter for Kirby so I tried to keep my distance from it.
Click to expand...
You should generally space yourself, but if you predict that the Kirby is going to dair (which that particular Kirby loved to do) and are in range to do so, hit him. Your bair is faster than his dair. Better Kirby players will use Bair to approach.

I will give you benefit of the doubt since the online for this game isn't great and input lag makes you do things (or not do things) that you didn't want to do.
 
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