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Melbourne Brawl | STIGMA-B for 2010 yes or no?

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Shaya

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Reducing IC chainlimits is pretty much making them bottom tier. They don't have that much of a game without them, hell even with infinite chaingrabs they are still only dwindling in high somewhere. A stupid idea.

Jei, Shaya just wants to kill his chances of being ***** by the characters that he has most trouble with. Most noteworthy would be ROB, Pit and ICs. - Keep Distant Planet in the list. It's just Shaya's preference to not have it there.
And ICs do so flippen great on every stage that isn't a pure neutral, right? And I don't recall your ROB giving me issues in a while...

And Jei, don't. I know you're not some camper.

Marth's weaknesses on those stages though? Please.
Marth can infinite on Corneria just fine, he can use his invincibility frames on his up b to literally plank on the lower area of the stage continually if he wants to. He has enough aerial range to reach campers on the individual platforms on Jungle Japes just fine. Distant planet's features that make it a good counterpick are apart of other stages but in itself just adds extreme camp abuse to the formula. Bridge of eldin is just a bad - really and I've said why, let's all just allow New Pork City as a counterpick, same ****.

But honestly, how do you comprehend "suggestions" but not "complaints" as almost exactly the same in this context. Pure complaints would be "that stage sux coz i lost on it", but naively saying my thoughts are just complaints instead of real suggestions with REAL reasons is more of an insult. I've seen you throw out one stage as a reason for someone's "suggestion" to be disregarded, and I say to you that those stages are this that for VARIOUS reasons.

CAO formulated that stage list a while ago, and one of the reasons was to compensate for certain characters (read: MK)'s ultimate dominance on 'neutrals' as to allow the other characters a chance on the "others". Melbourne seemed to grow to really like this style, and it helped them be able to take on counter pick stages that could be thrown at them and what have you. However it's not like it held S.D, Luke, Meteor Master or myself back from over all dominating.

My reasoning for the stage choices is as follows.
1. If a stage allows for an advantageous position/place for a player to situation themselves that cannot be surpassed and only results in either the other player running in to be ***** continually or just to run away themselves as to avoid all conflict, it shouldn't be a legal stage.

You could perhaps say that Dedede and ICs pretty much make stages applicable to point one. Anyway...

Distant Planet: If a player gets the position under the platform on the slope they pretty much cannot be attacked at all, and every character in the game has full advantage on any path you could choose to approach from, so what can you do? Go from the slope where EVERY character in the game has advantage from below, or go from under the platform on the other side where you're suspectable to edgehogging - that's it. WOW. And while they're in that position all you can safely do is just stand on the highest platform to the right of them and sing a song, because if you're anywhere near them they can attack you while you can't attack them.:laugh: If there was a reliable way to get a person out of that stalling position then it would be a fine stage... The raining part was perhaps the designer's way to do that, but you can still uphold the position easily with edge hogging....

Now all those D3 Stages aren't that bad right... Don't get grabbed! That's actually quite bloody easy on a huge stage like Eldin considering how slow that ****er is. But wow, good thing theres some common sense, because if D3s could play on that stage, the only thing that would happen is the opponent running away to avoid all grabs. Shadow moses you'd just jump up and down the platforms to never be on the same level as D3 too. The D3 rule isn't just because D3's chaingrab is -so cheap-, it's because of how bad the stalling would be if it wasn't there.

No matter how good a stage is overall, if there was a stall section, you'd wish it wasn't there right? Take Pokemon Stadium and the rocks/cliffs part, neither player can approach eachother during this time, and if you did you're asking to get owned. Luckily it's only temporary. But if a stage is PERMANENTLY LIKE THIS, then why is it legal?
 

Vermy

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@ Jei and X: Myself and Ugly will help out wherever you need it guys. 3 TV's and 2 Wii's between us. Also, I do freestyle grfx design so id gladly make e-flyers to post on here. Or just stuff to look awesome. =p

And lol and such at the stage discussion. With new (for lack of a better word) management comes a new interpretation of the rules etc. I'm in agreeance with the new IC rule, 5 grabs in a chain is plenty to set up or confirm a kill.

In my opinion, we should trial the stage list from '08 for the first couple events and see how it goes. I'll agree with banning Skyworld though, it screws everyone over equally.


Also, between the 28th of Dec and the 6th of Jan I wanna hold a Smashfest at my place. Its up in Gladstone Park (for those who don't know its close to Tullamarine Airport, Essendon and Broadmeadows). Nothin' flash, brawl and beers. Any takers?
Pm me or add me on msn: darkvermiis@hotmail.com
 

Jei Jei

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Cobalt: I'm not implying that your doing that, I just disagree with some of the stages being taken off the random list. I know how good you are and I know you wouldn't try to individually make it so it works out for you. Just the way I see some levels, like I said I'm open to suggestions.

Shaya: For one, even though it seems a whole heap of Smashers dislike you for some reason, I respect you. I guess the complaints/suggestions comment came out wrong because I wasn't directing that at you personally. Your opinions are your opinions and I happen to disagree with a few of them. You're welcome to continue expressing your opinions and if I do agree with any then I will act on it.

Vermiis: That would be awesome if you could help out with any e-flyers and whatnot because evidence shows that I'm garbage at it. Also I'm up for a meet at yours, it takes me like 10 minutes to drive to Tullamarine area.

It appears this stage list will definitely have to be changed and I'm considering Cobalt's suggested list with some minor alterations. X is right when he says we'll act accordingly.
 

Shaya

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Why fix what isn't broke I suppose. I was just stirring around the idea of change, really. Also thanks, I think you're a great guy too (and Shaya-hating is a work in progress). I definitely wish you all the best as a TO running brawl and I know it's your 'show', not mine. None of what I say are orders (or ever will be), just suggestions wrapped in complaints :D.
 

M

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In my opinion, we should trial the stage list from '08 for the first couple events and see how it goes. I'll agree with banning Skyworld though, it screws everyone over equally.
Wrong. Skyworld makes a great counterpick for the likes of ROB, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Pit, and a few others. The good control in their recovery helps them get around the blocky platforms, giving them that bit of an advantage. This sort of advantage is generally what you look for in a counterpick.
 

Suntan Luigi

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lol meteor

Jei- You're the boss now. I'm sure you'll make the right decisions. Jei for prez! <3

I'll give more suggestions later. I'm too sleepy atm even though it's the afternoon.
 

Shaya

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I edited out my nice big paragraph just for whatever reason. I'll make this one pretty blunt.

Can I avoid Skyworld's ***gotry by avoiding conflict (i.e. running away to platforms that are still 'strong' and not go to the middle section)? Yes.
If I'm on that top platform the silly stage owning properties go down the drain. And then the stage doesn't become a viable counterpick to tip the advantage of a player vs player, it becomes the player vs the stage. Player vs Stage is point 2 of of why a stage shouldn't be a counterpick (in my opinion). If a stage is continually a struggle against it (Rumble Falls, etc), then it stalls the game and the victory will most likely go to the person who just does everything to avoid the conflict.
 

M

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Nothing in the stage directly has the potential to kill you in Skyworld. It's how the player chooses to use it. Being on that top platform means nothing when it can be destroyed anyway.
 

Vermy

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@Jei: just pm me or msn what you're after for e-flyers and I'll cook something up. And as for the smashfest, I was thinking Sunday the 28th. If you know more people who would attend, help a brother out!

@Meteor:
As someone who mains as Kirby, I tried A LOT of legal counterpick stages, and for a while Skyworld was one. But after being thrown>stage spiked at 80% and not being able to grab a ledge during recovery because final cutter effing broke it and let me plummet to my doom, I quickly changed my mind. While i'll agree its a good counterpick for ROB, pit and Jigglypuff, for Kirby it is not. While your argument has swayed my opinion and it should stay a legal stage, I still hate Skyworld and I curse its children. =p
 

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That's where the implementation of reverse ledge grabbing comes into play, preventing final cutter from doing harm to the platforms. -_-
 

Vermy

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Still does a small amount of damage on the landing. And the reverse doesn't have enough horizontal range, so more often than not you'll die.
 

S.D

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I like Melbourne's crazy stage list, make everything legal Jei!

Distant planet seems fine to me. Plenty of characters can find ways to approach a camper, esp ones with multiple jumps, glides etc. Pictochat isn't so bad either, not too many of the changes are that dangerous and its generally nuetral enough.

That's my two cents but tbh i don't know **** about brawl stage theory so take it as you will.
 

_X_

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Stigma-B - The Stage Pick Drama Llama.

Jei said:
So while CAOTIC and Shaz run the Melee tournaments every month, X and I will be running Brawl tournaments to make for some epic bi-weeklies for the duration of 2009.
Are you sure you don't mean bi-monthly?

@Vermy We'll need all the help we can get. 3 T.Vs AND two Wiis will be a huge help if they can even be semi-consistently brought.

@Sky World: It's a ****in' crazy stage. Good for the counter pick. That's what counter picks are for, right - to F*** up your opponent working with their own and/or their character's disadvantages and/or to counter their own and/or their character's advantages. I wonder if any of that made sense.

lol - and/or.
 

Vermy

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@X: Depending on what day its on, so long as me and Ugly are there we'll bring our gear. If its a sunday, I guarantee both of us, saturday maybe not.
 

Vermy

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Also, ill agree with Shaya's opinion on Bridge of Eldin. It greatly favours campers and almost encourages stalling.


Also, myself, Ugz and a couple of our crew members (of whom are still yet to attend a tourney) are intending on producing a Melbourne Brawl "best of" video. So each player would get some spotlight and an awesome theme song to go with it.

Ps. No song is awesome enough for Captain Falcon. We thought we were pretty close with Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody and P. Diddy's Bad Boy For Life, but even that's not awesome enough. =p
 

M

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Bridge of Eldin is much campier than even New Pork City. At least when you engage someone up close in NPC they will have a harder time escaping. Bridge of Eldin is just an open mass of space so people can run away at any time if they please.
 

Everence

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Stigma-B - The Stage Pick Drama Llama.
@Sky World: It's a ****in' crazy stage. Good for the counter pick. That's what counter picks are for, right - to F*** up your opponent working with their own and/or their character's disadvantages and/or to counter their own and/or their character's advantages. I wonder if any of that made sense.

lol - and/or.
hahah, remember our last match X on skyworld? that was crazy s h i t. so **** close and it is a very good counter-pick stage. its a fairly good anti-marf stage or anyone with a half decent recovery for that matter.
 

Shaya

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Fine example of why Skyworld shouldn't be a counterpick:

I can avoid being ****ed up by the stage just by stalling and avoiding you. And it's in my best interests to not lose a stock in an utmostly cheap way, so why shouldn't I or everyone else stall?

On skyworld I'm not fighting your skills as a player, I'm fighting the stage to avoid me not losing a stock in a cheap manner.
 

Jei Jei

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@X: No, bi-monthly would mean we do a tournament every 2nd month. Being a Melee tournament and a Brawl tournament held in one month would make a tournament every 2 weeks, alternating between the two games. So it's a bi-weekly, just a different host and game every 2nd week.

@Shaya: I can see your point about Skyworld but I agree with everyone else that it's a good stage, unlike Shadow Moses which keeps you alive instead. Looks like you're on your own with this one. Besides, that's what stage banning is for (like you did to me at the last Melbourne tourney lawls *******)

@Vermiis: I'm trying to get a few people to come down, let's smash at yours this weekend.

@Everyone: Dammit it's not my birthday! Jack is high off cocaine.
 

Shaya

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ITS AN EVIL STAGE. RAGE. STAGE RAGE RAGE.

Yeah, I banned skyworld against everyone at the ranbats. EVERYONE. I can't think of any worser stage on the list :p. At least Shadow Moses is awesome, I would play shadow moses CP'd by Snakes or whatever with a smile on my face, a big smile. <3 Shadow Moses (compared to that evil skyworld).
 

Vermy

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HAPPAPPEEEE BIRFDAAAAEEE!!

And yes. This Sunday night we can brawl at mine. How many people do ya reckon will show up?

aaaaand....
FORTNIGHTLY. That's the word yr lookin fer.. Not bi-weekly. Bi-weekly sounds like its twice a week.

And I hate Christmas. Working at Highpoint this time of year does that to you. -_-
 

Jei Jei

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I was at Highpoint today =\
Where do you work?

I'm hoping I can get up to about 8-10 people to come but it's a bit short notice so I'm not sure.
 

Vermy

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I work at Playtime. And workin again tomorrow and boxing day. -_-
Ah well, at least it makes my wallet happy =D
8-10 people is cool.
 

Shaya

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It is?

"Happy Birthday" used to be one of my sayings whenever I gave a person anything. From a tissue/pencil to a autographed Michael Jackson CD. Even if it isn't their birthday, of course.
 
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