Meta Knight has just gained a bad match up

[Maniclysane]

Of course, odds are Mk can uair after the ftilt to prevent the combo. Awhile back the highly boards thought they had some crazy footstool combos, only to realize trying to footstool is pretty much throwing your hurtbox out.

 

[Kamikaze*]

@xDD master

Yeah, but nana can be killed early, rendering their CG useless. Think a bit before you post.

 

[saviorslegacy]

"hello we are the Ice Climbers, we can Infinit every Character at every %, so we are a bad Match-Up for everyone, kthxbye "

1 grab at 0+ = death

how can they NOT be a bad matchup???? and it does work...

#1 low rab range

#2 seperate them

#3 it is harder to CG with IC's than Saltus with Sheik

 

[brinboy789]

"hello we are the Ice Climbers, we can Infinit every Character at every %, so we are a bad Match-Up for everyone, kthxbye "

1 grab at 0+ = death

how can they NOT be a bad matchup???? and it does work...

because 1 ftilt which has pretty good range and is fast and virtually unpunishable is easier to get then a character which needs 2 characters present with crap grab range and is highly punishable? just maybe because of that?

 

[Turbo Ether]

"I've been waiting for this moment all my liiiiiiiiiiiiiiife, it's my destinyyyyyyyyyyy"

 

[Praxis]

1) Only works on FD, which can be banned.

2) Unsweetspotted bair can probably be smash DI'd to move the infinite until Meta reaches the ledge, if he let the sheik take him to FD.

3) Meta can probably nair or uair before the footstool.

I really doubt the effectiveness of this :/ It'll be just as practical as the Peach infinite on Wario (which works almost the same way). Warios just ban FD, and if they were caught in the infinite they just smash DI the unsweetspotted bair till they reach the ledge.

 

[xDD-Master]

I was just joking xD haha (look at my name XD)

 

[Kamikaze*]

I was just joking xD haha

Suuure. You say that after you ere proven wrong

 

[Maniclysane]

Oh lawl, my computer changed Jiggly to highly in my last post.

 

[Underload]

Hurrah, Sheik can finally get kinda good.

 

[salaboB]

Suuure. You say that after you ere proven wrong

But nobody proved him wrong.

He said that having an X-death combo wasn't automatically a bad matchup, and provided an example that showed it. The Ice Climbers (ie, his example) have 0-death combos but aren't automatically bad matchups for everyone, the example seems fine to me.

This may prove too hard to land the ftilt reliably, too conditional (if you're near the edge of the stage MK will just go off the edge instead of getting locked, FD only), etc. etc. etc. It needs more testing before, if it even works as advertised, it can be determined what it will do to the matchup. That's how it could not be a bad matchup.

 

[Kamikaze*]

1) Only works on FD, which can be banned.

2) Unsweetspotted bair can probably be smash DI'd to move the infinite until Meta reaches the ledge, if he let the sheik take him to FD.

3) Meta can probably nair or uair before the footstool.

I really doubt the effectiveness of this :/ It'll be just as practical as the Peach infinite on Wario (which works almost the same way). Warios just ban FD, and if they were caught in the infinite they just smash DI the unsweetspotted bair till they reach the ledge.

Probably = key word

We don't even know if this guy's bro can DI that well.

 

[Tyr_03]

lol you people act like it's impossible to avoid getting hit with Ftilt.

And yeah, platforms **** this up big time as well.

 

[salaboB]

Probably = key word

We don't even know if this guy's bro can DI that well. Which is why I said we can't party yet.

If it's true infinite, you and all the other pro-bans finally have to shut the hell up

So bitter...

I for one would be glad if the game ended up better balanced without having to ban a character. It just doesn't seem likely to happen.

 

[Kamikaze*]

So bitter...

I for one would be glad if the game ended up better balanced without having to ban a character. It just doesn't seem likely to happen.

As much as I want this to be a true infinite, I'm also having doubts that it will be as well. But he have to get a good player that knows how to DI really well. We have to wait and see.

 

[brinboy789]

1) Only works on FD, which can be banned.

2) Unsweetspotted bair can probably be smash DI'd to move the infinite until Meta reaches the ledge, if he let the sheik take him to FD.

3) Meta can probably nair or uair before the footstool.

I really doubt the effectiveness of this :/ It'll be just as practical as the Peach infinite on Wario (which works almost the same way). Warios just ban FD, and if they were caught in the infinite they just smash DI the unsweetspotted bair till they reach the ledge.

1. it seems like the infinite is not a grab release, its a ftilt instead, which means that platforms probably wont interrupt the infinite...which is what it looks like so far. not sure about this though

2. you can bair do this either way. so doesnt matterwhere you smash DI

3. doesnt look like it in the vid at least

 

[Brinzy]

"hello we are the Ice Climbers, we can Infinit every Character at every %, so we are a bad Match-Up for everyone, kthxbye "

1 grab at 0+ = death

how can they NOT be a bad matchup???? and it does work...

Oh for ****'s sake, this is a horrible argument that everyone needs to stfu about.

lol you people act like it's impossible to avoid getting hit with Ftilt.

Only an idiot would think otherwise.

 

[salaboB]

1. it seems like the infinite is not a grab release, its a ftilt instead, which means that platforms probably wont interrupt the infinite...which is what it looks like so far. not sure about this though

Watch Sheik's movement and then say that platforms won't get in the way of it.

 

[Kamikaze*]

TC should test this again on bf and against someone better than his bro.

 

[Maniclysane]

I dont think Praxis even mentioned anything other than the cg in his post...

 

[brinboy789]

Watch Sheik's movement and then say that platforms won't get in the way of it.

FF through platform?

not sure if theres enough time for bair to weaken tho...

 

[Yonder]

I still think people are overrating this...

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Sigh, I'm going to check this tomorrow. It looks pretty fishy from what I see, but you never know, I guess.

 

[Brinzy]

Watch Sheik's movement and then say that platforms won't get in the way of it.

Because you totally can't fall through platforms!

 

[Kamikaze*]

TC hurry the fack up and test this over someone good on wifi. I wanna know if I can tell all pro bans to shut the hell up or not.

 

[rehab]

lulz. shiek also gets a free sweetspot dacus on him if she gets a grab right?

 

[salaboB]

TC hurry the fack up and test this over someone good on wifi. I wanna know if I can tell all pro bans to shut the hell up or not.

I want to tell all the anti-bans who said if you ban MK he'd never get anything discovered on him that this is proof that new techniques will get tested against MK even if he ends up banned - just look at all the "Does it work on <X>" that's going on.

Note that this technique does work on others than just MK (Assuming it's verified to work), so it would have been found eventually if Sheik's metagame were developed (Which it should be), so it would have then been tested on MK to see if it would provide a counter and get him unbanned.

Ding. Progress!

 

[Tyr_03]

You can't fastfall through platforms while you're doing an aerial which means you won't be able to get the sourspot. Please actually think or test things before posting sarcastic and incorrect comments.

 

[rehab]

I want to tell all the anti-bans who said if you ban MK he'd never get anything discovered on him that this is proof that new techniques will get tested against MK even if he ends up banned - just look at all the "Does it work on <X>" that's going on.

Note that this technique does work on others than just MK (Assuming it's verified to work), so it would have been found eventually if Sheik's metagame were developed (Which it should be), so it would have then been tested on MK to see if it would provide a counter and get him unbanned.

Ding. Progress!

So MK isn't significantly preventing The glorious advancement of the proletariat metagame because even obscure-a$$ characters like Sheik are actively looking for new advantages and testing things?

wheeeeee

 

[Swordplay]

Big deal..

Ice climbers has an infinate on MK but its still MK's favor.

Link Ike Pika Mario and many many other characters can jab lock MK to kill %'s and just like this there is nothing he can do. But it's still MK's favor.

This won't change the matchup that much. A 5 point swing at the most. It practically accomplishes the same thing as a jab lock.

 

[salaboB]

So MK isn't significantly preventing The glorious advancement of the proletariat metagame because even obscure-a$$ characters like Sheik are actively looking for new advantages and testing things?

wheeeeee

No, it was just one very stupid claim that was being made and this pretty nicely debunks.

Because any new, really effective tech would be tested against MK whether he was banned or not -- and he doesn't have any particularily special properties (Unlike say, Wario) that would allow many techniques to exist that only work on him, so most of the new techs would be located with or without MK being the one they were being used against initially.

 

[Brinzy]

You can't fastfall through platforms while you're doing an aerial which means you won't be able to get the sourspot. Please actually think or test things before posting sarcastic and incorrect comments.

Sheik's bair, with fairly lenient timing, can sourspot while you fastfall through a platform. I just did it. You can do it too. Please actually think or test things before trying to sound cute.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I'll have to experiment with this some more. There has to be more than one way to do it. Sheik has to many options.

 

[Maniclysane]

So MK isn't significantly preventing The glorious advancement of the proletariat metagame because even obscure-a$$ characters like Sheik are actively looking for new advantages and testing things?

wheeeeee

Did you even lusten to what you just said? Better yet, what he said?

 

[rehab]

An argument I have heard more than once: people don't test things on characters that aren't used much, which leads to their potential being unexplored due to the ease of picking up metaknight or the trouble they have with him et ceteraaaaa

Here we have an obscure character getting her abilities tested regardless.

Unless you're going for some standard armchair quarterback bull. In which case put up whatever the hell you have to say to me in the open or shut the hell up with your reactionary ****.

 

[salaboB]

An argument I have heard more than once: people don't test things on characters that aren't used much, which leads to their potential being unexplored due to the ease of picking up metaknight or the trouble they have with him et ceteraaaaa

Here we have an obscure character getting her abilities tested regardless.

Unless you're going for some standard armchair quarterback bull. In which case put up whatever the hell you have to say to me in the open or shut the hell up with your reactionary ****.

You got it from the wrong side. I wasn't commenting on Sheik finding something new, but on the characters the new tech was being tested against.

I was referencing the "Does it work on <insert random character>?" barrage of questions that were being asked (In the initial thread for it) as proof that even if MK were banned people would be interested in finding out if it would work on him -- a lot of the characters being asked about aren't exactly high tiers, so they're not strong tournament contenders, but people were asking anyway.

Thus, the anti-ban argument of, "If you ban MK no new techs will be found against him and he'll never be unbanned because nobody will ever test things on him." is found lacking, because someone would go, "But what about MK?" when something like this was discovered in the future. They're doing it for Peach, Bowser, etc. after all.

That point was a minor one, and an old one -- brought back from the second ban discussion thread, iirc. But I like to find factual evidence to support my statements when possible, and that was one of the points I'd been defending.

Edit: The only reason I chose to bring that specific ban discussion point up here was because this thread was dedicated to MK just gaining a bad matchup -- I didn't bring it up in the one posted on the Sheik boards where the tech is being looked at more generally.

 

[brinboy789]

Big deal..

Ice climbers has an infinate on MK but its still MK's favor.

Link Ike Pika Mario and many many other characters can jab lock MK to kill %'s and just like this there is nothing he can do. But it's still MK's favor.

This won't change the matchup that much. A 5 point swing at the most. It practically accomplishes the same thing as a jab lock.

why are people so unwilling to accept that MK has a disadvantaged matchup? this is definitely NOT like the IC infinite OR jab lock >_>. i'll leave it to your imagination why.

 

[Brinzy]

You're refuting a very poor argument to begin with. It's more valid to say, "If you ban MK, nobody (who doesn't go to a tournament with MK legal) will have tournament practice against him, so that's a detriment to consider."

 

[salaboB]

why are people so unwilling to accept that MK has a disadvantaged matchup? this is definitely NOT like the IC infinite OR jab lock >_>. i'll leave it to your imagination why.

In my case, because I still remember Bowser, Yoshi, Olimar, Zamus, Diddy, etc. all being presented as even or counters of MK, and not one of them has proven that claim.

I'll believe it when it's tested by skilled players in tournament conditions (Or at least as a starter, serious friendlies) and actually found to be as effective as advertised. Until then, there's just been way too many false hopes in the past.

You're refuting a very poor argument to begin with. It's more valid to say, "If you ban MK, nobody (who doesn't go to a tournament with MK legal) will have tournament practice against him, so that's a detriment to consider."

Yeah, but that will only matter if he actually gets banned then unbanned -- and if he did get unbanned after being banned, people will recall how to fight him fast enough. I don't really find this point much stronger for a reason to not ban him than the other.

 

[Brinzy]

sala, I'll reply to you in the other thread, for the sake of not polluting this one.