Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[Erodote]

Run one way for a bit, then tap back to run the other way, forward smash here -MK will glide a bit on the ground and F-Smash while moving backwards-. The key is to run a bit first, then tap back, and MK will like try to stop, and move back while doing it, a sound will also occur.

 

[ぱみゅ]

What stage should I counter pick if my opponent is very campy and I don't think I will have enough patience for another slow match?

Honestly, if you don't have much patience, Brawl is probably not the game you should play....
You always should be ready for 25-minute sets (40 in B-O-5). ALWAYS.

Don't Know the exact name for it... But how do you fsmash with metaknight as you run and then reverse while he does the glide?
Not sure if thats clear but when you run and then press the opposite direction mk fsmashes while gliding a bit.
Couldn't really find it on line thought i'd post here tnx.

Pretty much what Erodote said, if that's what you mean.
Timing is key though.

 

[BlazeTron]

Not sure if its the same one, because I know you can run in one direction and tap backwards real quick and then fsmash and he will glide a bit. But what i would like to know is while you are running then fsmahs while having the glide not sure if thats clear lol. Either its what you described or i am just doing it wrong still :/

 

[ぱみゅ]

Well, it's maybe because it's not "real fast", you start running, wait a bit, hit backwards, wait another bit and hit the C-stick to the other direction.

Maybe you are talking about simply running and starting a Fsmash to the other side. You can delay it a certain amount of time to slide a bit.

 

[SKidd]

You can do an fsmash out of a flash step... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnzLLm0U7-o

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Best ways/mixups for getting back on stage against Snake, Metaknight, Falco, and Marth?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Man, being on the ledge and returning to the stage is what I personally feel one of the hardest parts of this game, and it's specially bad for MK with his low aerial mobility.

• You will most likely drop the ledge and throw some Uairs (that has a lot of horizontal range) to make the opponent step back a little and give you enough room to return to the stage. This is not a real recovery option, just a way to add pressure, and something you will be doing often, as most characters have not many ways to directly combat it.
• Standard Getup Options alone can be good mixups, ledge attack when over 100% has a lot of range as well.
• Tornado is a very risky option, but very rewarding if you get away with it. Be careful, most characters can get around it or even punish you during it.
• Glide alone is usually bad because you are forced to move forward, but Glide Attack can clash with most attacks, or you can fake it out and land on the very edge of the stage, or at least return to the ledge. But the risk is just not worth it, imo.
• Shuttle Loop is only good if the opponent is way too close to the ledge, but if they avoid it you're locked up gliding.
• You can also watch some of ZeRo's matches, he usually drops the ledge, jumps just above the ground level, Airdodges and buffers either shield, spotdodge, roll, or F/D tilt. All of them are not bad options, but if any get read you are likely to get punished for them.

Basically, just the general advice: mix up your options as much as you can and try not to get predictable.

 

[GOofyGV]

you can also use slow glide. Otori uses this often and it's really good. Or do you mean slow glide with glide?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I just don't like to glide from the ledge. At all.

 

[sGale]

I feel like glide is so easy to react to. And really, from the edge, it shouldn't be a problem to punish it for any char with any good OoS options. Maybe that's just me though.

 

[GOofyGV]

Ga actualy claches with evey move. multi hit moves will clash with the first hit and hit you with the other thits though. But it's a pretty good option.

 

[sGale]

Doesn't it clash with most stuff?

 

[BlueXenon]

Some Marth players like to throw out attacks when your on the ledge to bait a get up attack and then they move back so they don't get hit and punish your get up attack with a smash. You should look too see if they do that.

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOm_9tnLSqg

I felt like Rain's usage of Glide Attack from the ledge was very good especially in game one. How long does the hitbox of f-tilt 3 last?

 

[BlueXenon]

I've just learned that im dying to snake's tilts extremely early. What is the correct way to DI his ftilt and utilt?
I currently hold up for ftilt and sideways for utilt and then I fast fall uair. and jump after if i got hit by ftilt. Im going to guess my reaction time for di'ing his tilts is .6 seconds.

And is tornado a safe approach vs snake? I usually use it when he lands.

 

[ぱみゅ]

For Ftilt you want to point your DI to the corner, not straight up (though it doesn't have much knockback, it wouldn't kill you anyway).
For Utilt you need to FIRST hit your stick downwards and away from Snake, and THEN Uair>Fastfall. It kills insanely early still, but any chance it won't is good for you.

Those are general rules for any horizontal and vertical-knockback attacks.

 

[luar1609]

Hi I would to know information regarding how to play the matchup against Peach and Ike. What to do, what not to do, when to nado, which stages (neutral and counterpick) should I choose and so on. Thanks in advance.

 

[Roy Renard]

Ok, I'm an Olimar/Marth main, and I'm looking to start using MK, but I'm having trouble using him. First of all, I'm having a lot of trouble using two of his best moves: f-tilt and n-air OOS. Since my mains rarely require to use their f-tilts, I often find myself hitting the control stick all the way and end up dash attacking instead... so, knowing that MK is not a smash spammer (except for d-smash), is it a good idea to set C-Stick to Attack for easier tilts, or should I just practice and get used to f-tilt consistently with the control stick + A?
As for n-air OOS... I have never figured out how pro MK players get to n-air so fast! I normally play with Tap Jump Off and jump with X, but sliding my thumb from X to A almost always results in a full hop n-air, or it just doesn't come out as fast as I would like. Is there another way to consistently perform short hop n-airs OOS really fast? Or is it just reduced to get used to it and practice until it gets done?
And last... well, I just feel that I would be a better MK if I didn't suicide that much with him out of Up-B's. I mean, I find that move to be amazing, but with some pretty complex usages. Whenever I Up-B I sincerely don't know where I will land or if I'll land at all. I don't know how landing is affected by using glide attack or cancelling the glide... so, is there a guide out there about MK's Shuttle Loop and how to efectively use it? Also, is it true that it bears similar properties to Marth's Dolphin Slash?
Oh, well, thanks in advance and all!

 

[ぱみゅ]

The thing I have against C-Attack is that it makes you jump and no attack for no apparent reason, plus it will sometimes make you Nair. I have no idea why, maybe it happens when you do not input perfectly towards a direction?

Overall, MK is not a very technical character. It sure needs you to be concious of every move you do at a faster pace than any other character and doesn't allow you to mess up your inputs much, but when you take a little time to learn its timings, movements, speeds, and distances, you can do a lot.

btw, you don't use much tilts with Marth? That means you do not just WALK with him?



@luar: I don't have a tip, but I love your avi.

 

[GOofyGV]

for snake's utilt it has a sour spot. his sourspot is like when he only hit's the upper tip of it. really makes a big diffrence.


@Luar
about the mu's I will give some small advice since my mu guides on those 2 mu's won't come anytime soon.
as for Ike his range is really good and he isn't as slow as you think. but honestly this mu is not fair for him.
You can punish all his moves with Nado like all of them axcept jab. Nado is great in this mu but don't be obvious. Fair beats nado. So if you don't want that in your face then don't nado to him like a ******. You should almost always use nado as punish tool because it really ***** Ike. if he makes any kind of spacing error punish it with dashgrab, Ftilt, GSL or Nair. Thos moves deal most damage and/or knockback. depends on the situation which one you want to use. Ike kills you really early. so like I sed don't be reckless. Play it safe and punish every single breath he try's to give you and break him down slowly until he has to give up

Stages:
I'd say you best neutrals are BF and SV. I honestly don't like YI but that's just me. You kinda **** Ike on every stage. But imo it's better to have lot's of space to avoid his attacks and then land your punish so big stages are good in this mu imo at least.
CP's: Ike will probably ban Frigate. Halberd, Delfino are your best cp's
Bans: I have no idea actualy. I don't mind FD at all in this mu because Ike doesn't really camp you. I have 2nd part of CS so I just ban that

About Peach. Well She's like Ike not a match for MK. she needs her pressure and combo game which you completely shut down with grounded upB. like Ike Punish every little thing she wants to do. you'r MK so it's obvious that she's afraid for you. if at high% she wants to land fair. shield a lot and you can basicly shut her killing options down. Nado is good in this mu because she can't beat it. actually she can with bob-omb and maybe stich face but I'm not sure about this tbh. anyway if she tries to land an arial and you have some space nado it. She's also really easy to juggle so get her in this position. You can just do to much to her here.

your best neutrals are BF, Lylat and SV imo. SV gives lots of space to camp her and punish her once she gets close. BF is just my favorite stage so I always try to go for that and you can shark Peach if she needs to land. Same with Lylat.
Cp's: She will probably ban Delfino. good Cp's are Halberd and Frigate.
Bans: I always Ban FD vs Peach.

 

[sGale]

Eh... I wouldn't take an Ike to BF. He's got so many gimmicks with side-B there, and in general utilises the platforms very well.

 

[GOofyGV]

True but that doesn't make up for MK's pro's on that stage. And it's probably just me. BF is by far my best stage. I sometimes like get 2 stocked game 1 then go to BF game 2 win

 

[sGale]

Well, most Ikes really like it, so I guess go there if you feel comfortable. It's just that I don't want to take someone to their favorite stage

 

[Roy Renard]

The thing I have against C-Attack is that it makes you jump and no attack for no apparent reason, plus it will sometimes make you Nair. I have no idea why, maybe it happens when you do not input perfectly towards a direction?

Overall, MK is not a very technical character. It sure needs you to be concious of every move you do at a faster pace than any other character and doesn't allow you to mess up your inputs much, but when you take a little time to learn its timings, movements, speeds, and distances, you can do a lot.

btw, you don't use much tilts with Marth? That means you do not just WALK with him?

Yeah, I just tested C-Attacking and it makes you jump out of nowhere. I'm still trying to f-tilt in the traditional way; can do it now in a more consistent way, but I still get random dash attacks or f-smashes... oh, well.
And yeah, I use tilts with Marth... d-tilt and u-tilt, and f-tilt sparingly, when I'm consciously walking and know it can hit, or just to mix it up, but still... Marth's f-tilt is not as important for his game as it is for MK. I mean, MK is a really fast character, and with that, it just makes you want to rush and do quick attacks, and thus, quick inputs, so it is harder for me to get used to frequent smooth inputs, such as those for f-tilts.
Anyways, thanks (;

 

[sGale]

I would recomend against A-Sticking. You would lose the traditional method to SDI and quick smashes. Plus, if you use an F-Smash with the control-stick, there's a chance that you will trip

 

[1PokeMastr]

You'll only trip if you make a stutter step input, you can still do side smashes with Analog + Attack without having to make a dash input. :3

But yeah, C-Stick is better for smashes.

 

[Youngster Joey]

im planning on using MK soon. but there are some characters that really make me not wanna use him. like yoshi because of the continuous grab release and characters that are too afraid to approach. me being a diddy main i just sit behind my wall of peanuts and bananas in neutral position and react accordingly. i can probably deal with camping later on but is there anything that should be giving mk trouble? is yoshi one of them?

 

[SKidd]

Yoshi should not be giving MK trouble. He can't shield. Abuse that with nado.

 

[BlueXenon]

Is it possible that mk beats peach +4 (assuming the mk is at least decent at the mu)? I played this match up on wifi and watched it on youtube and here is what I noticed:
1. Peach has bad ledge options and mk is very good at ledge guarding her
2. MK is very good at punishing her landings and juggling her
3. Mk is good at edge guarding her
4. MK can live extremely long, and never has a hard time killing peach. This is the only match up I was able to live until 220% in.
5. If Peach gets the first kill, or has a huge % lead, it means nothing. MK can easily catch up.
6. Peach can give mk damage very quickly in the beginning, but again, I don't think it means anything.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Well, a ±4 is a very delicate number to throw (as a Zelda player and panelist, I know about -4's).
Even with her inability to kill and how badly MK covers her options, Peach still has a lot of safety, and from MK's perspective it's pretty hard to kill her out of a punish, you need to read her in order to score it.
Plus, MK's will be doing a lot of Shuttle Loops to abuse its invincibility, if Peach baits it, she can U-tilt/smash you for it, and that hurts a lot.

I see a +3 to be accurate.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

I think it's +2. She doesn't lose as bad as Mario, that is +3 for MK, or as bad as Ganon, that is a +4.

So scale wise... she has to be +2 for MK. She would be + 2.7 for me personally, though, LOL

 

[NickRiddle]

Wouldn't you round to the closest number then?

 

[Illuvial]

So why is this system of scoring MUs used then if it obviously gives far too general results and not rounded accurately enough?

 

[NickRiddle]

Because the number represent the words. You can have a solid advantage against two characters, but one is easier than the other.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Also simplicity.
Think of a random person that doesn't know much about the game, and how confused will they be when reading tons of 65:35.
it's just simpler to represent a WHOLE chart with 5 numbers.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Wouldn't you round to the closest number then?

It's a joke dude! lol

 

[Illuvial]

It isn't like you can't just explain the numbers in various posts and with a color coded graph like most charts use anyway. A 10 point system should be used just like every other fighting community does it. And considering how more varied the MU scores for Smash games are compared to other fighters, using a more limited scoring system seems counter productive.

And that is my 2 cents...

 

[infiniteV115]

So a while ago I was fooling around in dubs and my teammate and I decided to go for the omnigay. We noticed that occasionally, even though the MK had port 4 (I'm >9000% sure of this) he died (the opponent always died, my MK teammate with 4th port died occasionally). We came to the conclusion that the opponent was holding down or down+towards MK or something, so that he SDI'd the explosion below MK and then the knockback sent him into MK, hitting MK into the blastzone and killing him.

Is this conclusion correct? Has this ever happened to anyone else before? Are we wrong and it's just that you have to explode it at a specific time or something? Cause I've been under the impression that the person with higher (ie closer to 4) port takes NO knockback when hit by a 3rd party while in a throw/grab animation. If this is the case then surely it can't be the C4 killing the dude with port priority.

 

[Dekillsage]

So a while ago I was fooling around in dubs and my teammate and I decided to go for the omnigay. We noticed that occasionally, even though the MK had port 4 (I'm >9000% sure of this) he died (the opponent always died, my MK teammate with 4th port died occasionally). We came to the conclusion that the opponent was holding down or down+towards MK or something, so that he SDI'd the explosion below MK and then the knockback sent him into MK, hitting MK into the blastzone and killing him.

Is this conclusion correct? Has this ever happened to anyone else before? Are we wrong and it's just that you have to explode it at a specific time or something? Cause I've been under the impression that the person with higher (ie closer to 4) port takes NO knockback when hit by a 3rd party while in a throw/grab animation. If this is the case then surely it can't be the C4 killing the dude with port priority.

I was told it had to do with timing. If your theory is right then that's HUGE for the snake vs mk mu when we don't have port.

 

[NickRiddle]

You can't SDI it. FL already tested this. You die the first possible frame you blow up.
It has to do with the Snake's timing, and the character you're Omnigaying.