Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[BlueXenon]

Yesterday I tried to edge guard a Marth with a reverse shuttle loop from the ledge, and he Dair'd me for it and I died. Was this a bad idea or did I do it too predictably?

 

[GOofyGV]

It's not a bad option however you have to be carefull with it because he can dair you or upB stagespike you.

 

[Angiance]

You were either too predictable, or the player's just used to fighting MKs

 

[GOofyGV]

Even then, Landing a Dair on MK is really hard in such a case. If You just mess a little bit with his timing he won't spike. Only moment that move should land is when he gets a grabrelease

 

[sGale]

Really, I prefer to invinci-nair/dair his recovery. It also has a lot to do with the timing the Marth has. It's easier to trap him on the ledge instead of going down there.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Or just hog the ledge in time, let him get past through it, and punish his ages-long landing.
Old school Marth MU.

 

[sGale]

Is grab good against ICs? And how should I get them?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Grab has its uses, yes.
Grab Popo and you can Dthrow for max damage and followups (unless Nana decides to space her Fsmash, which is unlikely), or Bthrow/Fthrow so you cross them up and Nana tries to follow him and you can attack her.
Grab Nana and it's best to just Fthrow or Uthrow, so you can be safe be moving faster.

 

[Dekillsage]

If you downthrow Ic's with Mk you're probably gonna get Fsmashed. Fthrow is your go to throw in the match up because it has a hitbox on it. This is when they're together of course.

 

[-LzR-]

Grabbing is very important against ICs imo. It obviously has some risk with it, but most of the time the worst thing that can happen is that you get fsmashed but most of the time you separate them and in this MU it equals death.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

I grab a lot vs IC's. You should only do it as a mix up instead of SH Tornado/FH D-Air, and never as an approaching tactic by itself without this conditioning process first. Otherwise you're just gonna get spot dodged/Pivot grabbed and die.

I remember grabbing 9B/Vinnie a couple of times in crucial moments that lead me to win games because of grab-momentum.

Speaking about grabbing...If you're interested in learning how grabbing works in professional play, how to make it a better move and when and how to use it I invite you all to check out my latest video 'Grab Mechanics'. A video guide covering all you need to know about grabbing in Brawl.

Video:

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(Click on the pic! )
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ALSO, guys, check out my stream! If you want even more help, tips and guides: I stream often giving out insightful commentary of the the things I do, why I do them, the thought process and all, talk about MU's, entertain, provide a good time and I give a lot of tips and interact with my viewers as much as I can! Check me out at: Twitch.tv/gonzalo_zero
I also stream at twitch.tv/clashtournaments ! Follow CT to stay updated with tournament, my streams, M2K's stream soon, special events, give outs, and much more!
Also, my youtube channel full of guides, videos, matches, tips and sick plays is right here:www.youtube.com/chilezero

 

[Pheta Ray]

So I was playing a Kirby on Battlefield and I got an Fthrow to the right platform. I pursued with a GSL, and when he approached me on the right platform I countered with Dsmash.

Was there a better option here?

 

[Yunior597]

What is the fastest way to release from grabs? what are the most effective or fastest way to make inputs?

I need to speed up my release from grabs, since im kinda slow, especially vs Ice Climbers, i really need it.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Just press buttons as fast as you can.
Some people crawl, some others change the Dpad to shields, attacks and/or grabs so they count as different inputs. Do whatever makes you feel more confortable.

Also, try to use the Stick and the C-Stick together, those help as well.

 

[Heero Yuy]

What in general is the better punisher? Fsmash or Dsmash?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Punishment? I'd say Dsmash.
Fsmash has other much better uses.
If you can catch something extremely laggy to connect a Fsmash, always prefer to use it.

 

[AlanHaTe]

why is it that everytime I do a nado the opponent pops out of it?!?!

no matter what I try or do, nothing seems to work, EDIT: I suck at nadoing, help pls?

 

[ぱみゅ]

The bottom of the Mach Tornado (the lowest tip) hits opponents up, the sides of it keep them "in place". Try to experiment by hitting with different parts of your Tornado.

 

[AlanHaTe]

I already know that, the thing is that there are times when even if I hit with the sides they keep poping out :/

so how does people do to keep them there when they hit them first with the bottom hitbox? for example, if I hit another MK with the bottom part, how is it guaranteed to keep them in the nado?

people always hit me with the bottom hitbox and I can't do anything about it, no matter the %, but when I do it I don't know why, the knockback is higher meaning that they have a free punish because they're far from the other hitboxes, even I've tried rising the nado when I see this happening but for some reason it just won't work or they'll get away again ._.

is there something I'm missing?

 

[ぱみゅ]

Well, that's weird.
For what I can remember, a MK cannot scape the hitstun when popped up (by the bottom hitbox) at low-mid damages by a FRESH Tornado, but when a little stale or at higher damages you can just jump away.
And I am preeeeetty sure that's true for every character depending on their weight (heavier characters have more difficulties escaping).

I often try just to use tornado when I know they are going to hold shield/spotdodge, when they are too close to the ledge, or I read they will land on a platform. Also I rarely look for a full-duration tornado unless I know it will hit them or shields, or I use the last instants of it to scape.

I can't believe I realized just now how many applications does Mach Tornado have...

 

[pikaknight]

I've been having issues with the snake MU lately. How can i avoid getting camped?

 

[Master Raven]

Snake is so versatile at camping that there's no one-size-fits-all solution. You just have to adapt according to how he's camping.

One thing I've recently learned is that you MUST always keep your eyes on Snake. I played against MVD last Sunday and I ran into landmines like 9 times because I have a habit of looking at MK when I DI (idk why really). Never get hit by any of those; each and every single one can make or break a match, no matter how low your %.

For approaches, Tornado is actually not a bad option against Snake, just be careful that he doesn't get past his initial grenade animation so that it doesn't hit it if you catch him. It's really good if he's Ftilt happy (which is really the main reason to use it). I also like to glide as an alternative to tornado if I feel their grenade placement prevents me from doing that. Save your smashes for kills and reads, and don't use your tilts much because it's too risky since you have to be within his own tilt range to use them (except Utilt, you can save that for fall reads). Once he uses his cypher, you have a few ways to gimp him. If he's within your upB range, make sure you're also within the range of hitting the cypher so that you can reset the upB (and here's a funny trick: if you hit the cypher, he'll usually be within your glide attack range. It's a really good option to follow an UpB with because sometimes he'll be too far horizontally for you to upB him again in time). If he gets up too high to upB, follow his falls and time your aerials to catch him (and if he fast falls, be sure to do the same so he doesn't air dodge through your aerials. I recommend Uair whenever possible so you can constantly keep him in the air). If he fast falls and you know you won't be able to catch him fast enough with aerial, try to position yourself for a grab. If he tries to C4 recover, footstool as he blows himself upward.

It's still a matchup I'm trying to get a grasp of, especially since my primary practice comes from playing MVD, so there's always some dumb **** that can happen even if I'm playing the matchup properly (you'd be surprised at how difficult it can be to react to an unexpected Fair when attempting to gimp Snake from up high sometimes -_-). Basically, your goal is to keep Snake in the air or off-stage as much as possible because he's really dangerous on the ground. MK wins, but it can be frustrating sometimes because it takes forever to kill him. In fact, you don't kill Snake. You gimp him.

 

[pikaknight]

Snake is so versatile at camping that there's no one-size-fits-all solution. You just have to adapt according to how he's camping.

One thing I've recently learned is that you MUST always keep your eyes on Snake. I played against MVD last Sunday and I ran into landmines like 9 times because I have a habit of looking at MK when I DI (idk why really). Never get hit by any of those; each and every single one can make or break a match, no matter how low your %.

For approaches, Tornado is actually not a bad option against Snake, just be careful that he doesn't get past his initial grenade animation so that it doesn't hit it if you catch him. It's really good if he's Ftilt happy (which is really the main reason to use it). I also like to glide as an alternative to tornado if I feel their grenade placement prevents me from doing that. Save your smashes for kills and reads, and don't use your tilts much because it's too risky since you have to be within his own tilt range to use them (except Utilt, you can save that for fall reads). Once he uses his cypher, you have a few ways to gimp him. If he's within your upB range, make sure you're also within the range of hitting the cypher so that you can reset the upB (and here's a funny trick: if you hit the cypher, he'll usually be within your glide attack range. It's a really good option to follow an UpB with because sometimes he'll be too far horizontally for you to upB him again in time). If he gets up too high to upB, follow his falls and time your aerials to catch him (and if he fast falls, be sure to do the same so he doesn't air dodge through your aerials. I recommend Uair whenever possible so you can constantly keep him in the air). If he fast falls and you know you won't be able to catch him fast enough with aerial, try to position yourself for a grab. If he tries to C4 recover, footstool as he blows himself upward.

It's still a matchup I'm trying to get a grasp of, especially since my primary practice comes from playing MVD, so there's always some dumb **** that can happen even if I'm playing the matchup properly (you'd be surprised at how difficult it can be to react to an unexpected Fair when attempting to gimp Snake from up high sometimes -_-). Basically, your goal is to keep Snake in the air or off-stage as much as possible because he's really dangerous on the ground. MK wins, but it can be frustrating sometimes because it takes forever to kill him. In fact, you don't kill Snake. You gimp him.

Thanks alot for this! Im guessing u played MVD in tournament. i watched some of the live stream of the gf with esam vs mvd but idk if were talking about the same tournament(we probly are). Yeah i also find myself struggling to KO him. one time i couldn't kill a snake until 250% -_- hes so fat. The main reason i struggle with him is cause my off stage game is terrible but my on stage game is waay better. I also look at MK when im recovering/DI(i think most people do) but I'll try what u said. Anyyywhhoo thanks again!

 

[ぱみゅ]

If you think your offstage game is lacking, work on it.

For one, Snake is a pain to get through and you just can't rely on beat him every single time on the game he wants to play. That is true for him and other bunch of characters (pretty much the whole Top Tier) against whom is better to abuse their weak recoveries than play the kind of game they are confident at.

 

[Roy Renard]

Which are MK's best tools against Fox? Where I live, one of the best players (if not the best) mains Fox and fighting him is a huge headache. He is constantly moving or spamming lasers, so I can't be passive, I have to approach, but when I do, he starts jumping around and short-hop air dodging, and when I least expect it, he traps me with his dairs and uptilts and then, BAM! Up-smash and I'm dead with 80-90% damage. Is Tornado a safe option for approaching? Can I n-air OOS his dair? Up-tilts/d-air/f-air can be escaped via SDI? And if so, where should I try to DI in each case?
Sorry, but I'm desperate. No one has beaten me up that bad since... ever, lol.

 

[Demna]

As a Metaknight player, I've faced some good Snakes and I rarely lost to any. However, today I faced an amazing Snake who won 2 sets against my MK. I seem to have trouble with his Snake on stage in the following scenarios:
1- Snake punishes any move I perform, for example: when I F-tilt or D-smash, he shields and Punishes with his F-tilt.
2- Whenever I space D-tilt, he just shields, roll away, and starts nading. The D-tilt you guys are complimenting in this thread wasn't as effective in my case, is it something incorrect that I did?
I heard so many approaches to Snake, but they all seem to be at debate. What's the ideal approach right now? Because grounded approach is definitely not the best.
Plus, can someone please list the stages in order that Metaknight has relative advantage over Snake with? (Stages: FD, SV, BF, CS, PS:1, Lylat, Yoshi's, RC, Halberd, Delfino, and Brinstar).

 

[Angiance]

Fox's D-Air = MK OoS punish; Neutral\Retreat MK F-Air > Fox's options; D-Tilt = MK's main tilt, best used as a follow-up (don't rapidly D-Tilt)

 

[-Se7en-]

Wario Matchup Experience

 

[luar1609]

Hi, what is the best way to DI with MK. L-button for me is Jump and I use it when I DI, any other tips? (Besides the obvious basic stuff.)

 

[Demna]

Hi, what is the best way to DI with MK. L-button for me is Jump and I use it when I DI, any other tips? (Besides the obvious basic stuff.)

DI goes for all characters, and not Metaknight. DI helps you live longer by changing your trajectory path using the analog stick and the C-stick.

There are 3 other parts to this guide. This should cover almost everything related to DI and how you can perform it.

 

[luar1609]

DI goes for all characters, and not Metaknight. DI helps you live longer by changing your trajectory path using the analog stick and the C-stick.

There are 3 other parts to this guide. This should cover almost everything related to DI and how you can perform it.

Thanks for that but I know what DI is. It's just that I saw that Otori changes his controller setting adjusting one of the shoulder buttons to jump so he could DI better (Jumping several times so he could live longer), and wanted to know if there were other tricks like this one.

 

[Exdeath]

Thanks for that but I know what DI is. It's just that I saw that Otori changes his controller setting adjusting one of the shoulder buttons to jump so he could DI better (Jumping several times so he could live longer), and wanted to know if there were other tricks like this one.

Uair to cancel the secondary hit stun and enable you to act. If you will die without jumping, jump (this is faster with Uair>Jump>Uair>Jump). If you will die with jumping, Side-B.

 

[luar1609]

Uair to cancel the secondary hit stun and enable you to act. If you will die without jumping, jump (this is faster with Uair>Jump>Uair>Jump). If you will die with jumping, Side-B.

Yes, that is well known, thanks.

 

[Exdeath]

that is well known

So is jumping. The most common utility of L=Jump is Up-B OoS while tap jump is off, which I believe is the primary motivation behind Otori's control scheme. Otherwise, tap-jump-left-stick-up is (by far) the best method to jump. It optimally buffers with Uair>Jump, it is the only option to meteor-cancel without a penalty for early input, it is practically the fastest method to Up-B OoS, etc.

 

[ぱみゅ]

With enough practice and getting used to it, you should not have trouble with pressing three buttons at the same time.
I also use Tap Jump off and L to jump and never really had any issue.

 

[Exdeath]

With enough practice and getting used to it, you should not have trouble with pressing three buttons at the same time.
I also use Tap Jump off and L to jump and never really had any issue.

For characters like Marth It is sometimes the difference between 1 frame of vulnerability and 0 frames of vulnerability in their start-up animation.

 

[-LzR-]

There is no way to get 0 frames on vulnerability with Marth.

 

[Exdeath]

There is no way to get 0 frames on vulnerability with Marth.

Shield>Up-B definitely has 0 frames of vulnerability when done perfectly.

 

[-LzR-]

Don't you get the 1 frame of JC no matter what?

 

[Ghostbone]

Yes