Cort could probably 10 stock you in a 3 stock match.
Rock paper scissors, tic tac toe, don't break the ice, ssbm, halo, tetris, tennis, excite bike, kung fu. Who cares.
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Mindgames dont exist: The Truth
- Thread starter mog87
- Start date
Rock paper scissors, tic tac toe, don't break the ice, ssbm, halo, tetris, tennis, excite bike, kung fu. Who cares.
Cort
Apple Head
Thank you for further proving the point of this topic, Red Exodus of Barbados.
Hey Cort, do you remember me from that thread in the Fox forums? The one where a guy was asking for help on Sheik? You linked to this topic, but I disregarded it at first, thinking it was stupid. Anyways after reading through this thread (I mean the first 5 pages) and this last page, I finally understand why you linked here. Mindgames dont exist. Experience and playing intelligently are what seperates an average smasher and a professional smasher. I did not really notice how much the term 'mindgame' is thrown around on these boards until i saw this thread. When somebody says 'Get better mindgames' as advice, what the **** does that mean ?
Renth
Smash Hero
...... this thread still exists? XD
**** i think i just got mind gamed...
**** i think i just got mind gamed...
Mindgame is a word for playing smart...not playing rock paper scissors...that's a little too deep for me, but (*sigh* once again) I just think that it exists as a word for playing smart and to your opponents mental disadvantage. In other words... SHL'ing a boozer is just playing to their disadvantages. Dash dancing is playing to their mental disadvantages.
The only time dash dancing would ever be considered a mind game is vs bad people. People who will just jump at you and attack, whatever.
ºOblivionº
Smash Journeyman
I wonder if ken would take offense to this.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
Oh well, I tried, I guess I'm just being attacked by trolls. It's almost like talking to Christians about evolution.
Anyway I'm through with this thread. Believe it or not, people actually use their brains for games.
Like I said, you can't step think, build mindgames, or flat out think up a strategy without a brain. Play Yugioh, Magic, Poker, Rock paper scissors, Chess, Checkers/Draughts, or Dominoes without a strategy/mindgame and see how far you get.
I don't care if you make some dumb *** wise crack about my post, because I've seen enough of your posts to see that you are a troll [Brook]. Anyone else who actually doesn't think he/she is 100% correct all of the time can respond to me if you wish, I just might look back at this troll infested thread again.
P.S. all of you anime fans should know mindgames exist, especially in shows like Naruto, DBZ, Tenchi, whatever you watch. Even in some American shows they exist in Xaolin Showdown [I can't remember the name correctly], Powerpuff girls etc.
Otherwise those shows would all suck for sheer lack of imagination, and overdose of monotony [strong evil guy beats the crap of out good guy, good guy wouldn't get better because mindgames/step thinking apparently doesn't exist, so good guy gets beat down till he/she dies. The end]
Monotonous huh?
Anyway I'm through with this thread. Believe it or not, people actually use their brains for games.
Like I said, you can't step think, build mindgames, or flat out think up a strategy without a brain. Play Yugioh, Magic, Poker, Rock paper scissors, Chess, Checkers/Draughts, or Dominoes without a strategy/mindgame and see how far you get.
I don't care if you make some dumb *** wise crack about my post, because I've seen enough of your posts to see that you are a troll [Brook]. Anyone else who actually doesn't think he/she is 100% correct all of the time can respond to me if you wish, I just might look back at this troll infested thread again.
P.S. all of you anime fans should know mindgames exist, especially in shows like Naruto, DBZ, Tenchi, whatever you watch. Even in some American shows they exist in Xaolin Showdown [I can't remember the name correctly], Powerpuff girls etc.
Otherwise those shows would all suck for sheer lack of imagination, and overdose of monotony [strong evil guy beats the crap of out good guy, good guy wouldn't get better because mindgames/step thinking apparently doesn't exist, so good guy gets beat down till he/she dies. The end]
Monotonous huh?
I think that their point ( though right AND wrong) is that they just don't exist in ssbm. Most people that agree with the topic creator are saying they just don't. They think that playing smart and good technical skill (and this is getting annoying in when talking) are all that you need to play well. There are no such things as mindgames in that sense, but what they're talking about are mindgames. Playing smart (to me anyways) is playing with your mind.
I don't know about the troll issue though, I wont say anything in that matter.
Also, the anime and such have the same issue. Some would call it mindgames, some wouldn't. Like earlier in the thread, the chess analogy. Some would say distracting your opponent with other pieces is a mindgame, but others would just call that being dumb and playing to their weaknesses. It's just an arguement of whether or not to use the word mindgame.
I think the word fits, but it's being over used and it's becoming obnoxious.
I don't know about the troll issue though, I wont say anything in that matter.
Also, the anime and such have the same issue. Some would call it mindgames, some wouldn't. Like earlier in the thread, the chess analogy. Some would say distracting your opponent with other pieces is a mindgame, but others would just call that being dumb and playing to their weaknesses. It's just an arguement of whether or not to use the word mindgame.
I think the word fits, but it's being over used and it's becoming obnoxious.
ºOblivionº
Smash Journeyman
Red Exodus and ti83pop. You guys are awsome I would plus rep you guys but its.... gone. But I like how Exodus gave a detailed vision of mind games, too cool. and the comprisan to anime was just the iceing on the cake. * Big naruto fan, and use to watch yugioh * even the diminoes make sense.
But at the same i do verywell unstand the point of the creator and ti-pop.
But at the same i do verywell unstand the point of the creator and ti-pop.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
Thank you for understanding. I don't know if their point is that mindgames don't exist at all or if they don't exist in SSBM, but either way they exist in both.
I'm going to an arcade to play against people that use advanced techs [I can't because I found out about them after my GC stopped working] that means they have more technical skill, but I'll find out for myself if technical skill is all that matters in SSBM or if mindgames share part of the skill of players.
P.S. I have always had better strategies than my friends and most people that play against me.
I'm going to an arcade to play against people that use advanced techs [I can't because I found out about them after my GC stopped working] that means they have more technical skill, but I'll find out for myself if technical skill is all that matters in SSBM or if mindgames share part of the skill of players.
P.S. I have always had better strategies than my friends and most people that play against me.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I consider mindgames to be anything that affects your opponent's perception of your actions. Match starts. You WD backwards. That is technically a mindgame because now they will take taht into account before reacting. A very minor mindgame, but one none-the-less.
A more important example of a mindgame would be as someone is Fox, coming back to the ledge when you are Marth. If you face away from the edge, that is also a mindgame because now your opponent has less than a split second to decide whether you are going to WD backwards onto the ledge. If they go for the edge when you WD onto it, they will die. If they go for a high recovery onto the stage when you don't WD, they will be Fsmashed and still die.
Now at that point, it seems like a guess. (like rock, paper, scissors, and in someways it will be like that). However, let's say you WDed to the edge and they died. The next time you are in that position, it will create a more complex mindgame for the opponent to overcome. They will be thinking things like "They are very random when attacking, does that mean they will be random in the edgeguard, staying on the stage this time?" or "They have been playing very predictably thus far, will they keep being predictable by going for the WD to edgehog again?"
Summation: Mindgames only exist if you think about it really. If you do disregard your opponents movements, attacking with no consideration of your opponent's options, you have no mindgames. If you perform actions that lead your opponent to believe you are doing something different than what you plan, you are using mindgames.
A more important example of a mindgame would be as someone is Fox, coming back to the ledge when you are Marth. If you face away from the edge, that is also a mindgame because now your opponent has less than a split second to decide whether you are going to WD backwards onto the ledge. If they go for the edge when you WD onto it, they will die. If they go for a high recovery onto the stage when you don't WD, they will be Fsmashed and still die.
Now at that point, it seems like a guess. (like rock, paper, scissors, and in someways it will be like that). However, let's say you WDed to the edge and they died. The next time you are in that position, it will create a more complex mindgame for the opponent to overcome. They will be thinking things like "They are very random when attacking, does that mean they will be random in the edgeguard, staying on the stage this time?" or "They have been playing very predictably thus far, will they keep being predictable by going for the WD to edgehog again?"
Summation: Mindgames only exist if you think about it really. If you do disregard your opponents movements, attacking with no consideration of your opponent's options, you have no mindgames. If you perform actions that lead your opponent to believe you are doing something different than what you plan, you are using mindgames.
"Mindgames", in my opinion, is the overall compilation of moves/strategies that are used to keep opponents from anticipating what they are going to do. If you say they don't exist, you must be one lame and sucky melee player.
ChopingBoard
Smash Journeyman
obviously it's your opinion if you are saying it. mindgames don't exist.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
If they don't exist what separates you from a bot? I know the bots attack based on a target's location and state but what do you do that's different than a bot?
I highly doubt you just throw out attacks and hope for the best.
I highly doubt you just throw out attacks and hope for the best.
ChopingBoard
Smash Journeyman
i am a bot. and yes i do just throw out attacks and hope they work. everyone does something to hope it works. how do you know it will work unless you just throw it out there and hope for the best. Lolacaust
Skler
Smash Master
I'm not one to get offended on the internets, but **** that was a stupid thing to say. That's like saying all muslims are terrorists, I mean a few of them are so why not all of them?
On a side note, Brookman is awesome even when ignoring me.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
That was never meant to be stereotypical, but go into a Christian church and talk about the Big Bang, life starting from a single cell, Charles Darwin etc etc. and see what happens.
Evolution clashes with a lot of things in the bible so it's obvious that kind of topic wouldn't go over easily.
Evolution clashes with a lot of things in the bible so it's obvious that kind of topic wouldn't go over easily.
ChopingBoard
Smash Journeyman
i believe the pope apologized for the church about being wrong about the whole evolution thing.
Please don't bring politics in here. I'm just saying to leave it at what it is.
And yes choping, I know you're talking about that in reference to mindgames, but to put it bluntly, you're...right and wrong. Everyone is right and wrong in this thread. Almost. But seriously, I don't see why this is getting so much attention, like I have said, in the way people are using mindgames (most people) they make sense. So in that sense, mindgames do exist. Garr. Solution= don't say it so ******* much.
And yes choping, I know you're talking about that in reference to mindgames, but to put it bluntly, you're...right and wrong. Everyone is right and wrong in this thread. Almost. But seriously, I don't see why this is getting so much attention, like I have said, in the way people are using mindgames (most people) they make sense. So in that sense, mindgames do exist. Garr. Solution= don't say it so ******* much.
Uck
Smash Journeyman
OMG! Mindgames dont exist??? Are you telling me that you guys are Cpu's and im the only real human that plays Smash???? Im so scared >.>
marth's son 10
Smash Cadet
Mindgames exist in Melee, just like they do in any other competitive sport, unless you have absolutely amazing focus.
h1roshi
Smash Hero
mindgames r teh coolxorz!!!!!.....peace
-hiroshi
nastiest cfl sheik
-hiroshi
nastiest cfl sheik
^ no comprendo tu estupido leet^
anyway, mindgames do exist, against certain players.
that's players, not characters.
here's one of the simkplest examples:
you try and set up a certain move 4 or 5 times in a row, your opponent is going to expect you to pull it the 6th time if he/she sees you trying to set it up again. all you have to do is pull a different move, and...
POOF!! el mindgame simple!
~Tera253~
anyway, mindgames do exist, against certain players.
that's players, not characters.
here's one of the simkplest examples:
you try and set up a certain move 4 or 5 times in a row, your opponent is going to expect you to pull it the 6th time if he/she sees you trying to set it up again. all you have to do is pull a different move, and...
POOF!! el mindgame simple!
~Tera253~
marth's son 10
Smash Cadet
Wouldn't that be strategy though, not mindgames? I meant by mindgames not really relating to the match, just a person's status in general.
Red Exodus
Smash Master
Mindgame is just a different word for strategy. People just use mindgames more often, although I heard somewhere that the real term is metagame.
rockman2k1
Smash Journeyman
This thread is a *MINDGAME*!
lol its more of a MINDGRAINE(I know its an old joke, but it applies perfectly here! So shut up about it!!) .
'mindgames' mean different things to different people, so we can't really define it, so therefore we can't argue if they exist or not. Or maybe we can keep debating for another 20 or so pages...
"In Soviet Russia, Car drives you."
Eternal phoenix Fire
Smash Hero
Red Exodus
Smash Master
I still wonder how those people who don't think mindgames play smash. They must be predictable to a T.
Cort
Apple Head
I was expecting you to say that.
But I have no mindgames.
But I have no mindgames.
Technical skills allow the door to more mindgames. More experience helps you determine which technical skills mindgames are better to use. In my opinion in this way, mindgames simply follows how far you are developed in the areas of experience and technical skill. For example, if you are unable to dash dance-- that opportuntity for you to use this technique to score a grab is erased. There are examples of more technical abilities that one can not do, thus limiting mindgames -- such as the moonwalk. The moonwalk doesn't help you combo? does it? I would say that it is a mindgame, it tricks your opponent because usually its not something they expect, however this is hard to do and not all falcons have mastered it. So silent spectre moonwalked and killed someone, was it a uber mindgame? Or was it his opponents lack of experience combined with his hightened technical skill?
Techchasing-- is this a mindgame or technical skill? I would argue that it is a technical skill. Most techs from a throw can be punished IFF the attacker is fast enough. It also highly depends on the matchup -- some of the very slow characters like bowser/ganon its almost nearly immposible to techchase a fox/falco that made the best decision to tech due to their fast rolling/dodge/NO LAG on aynthing. Silent spectre says "foxes never tech a downthrow from cfalc at 0%". I've watched videos of silentspectre doing this to foxes-- he dthrows and dairs them. Is this mindgames? This is experience.
does ones mindgames remain as a constant in the human brain? Can one "learn" mindgames and become better? I say that they do, and because of this mindgames are cheapened and have less of an effect-- become an experienced technical player and your mindgames will follow, if you understand the game -- you dont need to play this game of "fake left go right" you wont need to.
Mindgames to me have always been something thats inside of everyone that simply can't be learned its a binary thing, its not something you learn. Its what seperates you from another player.
this games gay.
Techchasing-- is this a mindgame or technical skill? I would argue that it is a technical skill. Most techs from a throw can be punished IFF the attacker is fast enough. It also highly depends on the matchup -- some of the very slow characters like bowser/ganon its almost nearly immposible to techchase a fox/falco that made the best decision to tech due to their fast rolling/dodge/NO LAG on aynthing. Silent spectre says "foxes never tech a downthrow from cfalc at 0%". I've watched videos of silentspectre doing this to foxes-- he dthrows and dairs them. Is this mindgames? This is experience.
does ones mindgames remain as a constant in the human brain? Can one "learn" mindgames and become better? I say that they do, and because of this mindgames are cheapened and have less of an effect-- become an experienced technical player and your mindgames will follow, if you understand the game -- you dont need to play this game of "fake left go right" you wont need to.
Mindgames to me have always been something thats inside of everyone that simply can't be learned its a binary thing, its not something you learn. Its what seperates you from another player.
this games gay.
quak
Smash Champion
yeah, they exist, and not just in melee, they're everywhere.
A runningback fakes right, but cuts left
A basketball player fakes a 3 point shot, but goes for the lay up
A drunk baseball fan moons the pitcher
Now compare these mindgames found in sports to tactics in melee. Like circle jumping, dashdancing, wavedancing, taunting, etc.
If you fake em out, the hopeful prize you get is the element of surprise. If they didn't expect it, THAT'S SURPRISING THEM. And we all know that if they are caught off gaurd, they are hindered in their defence.
Another way to *mindgames'd* your opponent is by playing someone that your opponent doesn't expect to see in play, such as my secondary, mewtwo. If mindgames didn't exist, they're would be no way i'd be able to win against even a nub with mewtwo.
Cort you avatar is rawesome, and GanonPWN your sig just blew my ****in mind.
A runningback fakes right, but cuts left
A basketball player fakes a 3 point shot, but goes for the lay up
A drunk baseball fan moons the pitcher
Now compare these mindgames found in sports to tactics in melee. Like circle jumping, dashdancing, wavedancing, taunting, etc.
If you fake em out, the hopeful prize you get is the element of surprise. If they didn't expect it, THAT'S SURPRISING THEM. And we all know that if they are caught off gaurd, they are hindered in their defence.
Another way to *mindgames'd* your opponent is by playing someone that your opponent doesn't expect to see in play, such as my secondary, mewtwo. If mindgames didn't exist, they're would be no way i'd be able to win against even a nub with mewtwo.
Cort you avatar is rawesome, and GanonPWN your sig just blew my ****in mind.
SciFiGuy
Smash Journeyman
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nObA-7mlsls
?
I kinda agree with what g-regulate and what Mew2King have said. It's almost like they exist, but to an extent or something.
?
I kinda agree with what g-regulate and what Mew2King have said. It's almost like they exist, but to an extent or something.
ChopingBoard
Smash Journeyman
i already said that a few pages back jerk
cradmazy_SKAG
Smash Ace
a mind is necessary part to recognizing mind games
my deepest sympathy extended to those of you who do not meet this requirement
my deepest sympathy extended to those of you who do not meet this requirement
Red Exodus
Smash Master
Nice point Ganon, you either have good mindgames or you don't. The only thing that can help you otherwise is technical skill.