Social Mr. Game & Watch Social - The Flat Zone

[FrameImperfect]

I might throw in a few Glory replays your way. Sound good?

 

[WindozeNT]

Narrowly lost to a Mii Brawler on Flat Zone 2 in local multiplayer. G&W's severe and utter lack of kill moves is why. I hope this gets fixed in a patch. I just can't kill with him like I could in Brawl. Going to start fighting level 9 Miis to find out how to get rid of them. I face a Robin tomorrow.

 

[FrameImperfect]

Apparently you can "wavedash" with the Bucket. By tap jumping and then bucketing either toward or away, you can make G&W do a "wavedash". It's also interesting that G&W can stop his jump halfway by using the bucket. Not anything worth looking at competitively but I had a good laugh when I figured it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA1OpAqQ_bQ

This video will show you "bucket wavedashing".

 

[SFA Smiley]

Hmm..

My ds is dead but why does this happen?

It's not really a Wavedash but more like a hop, does it stop upward momentum or something?

Do you know if that only happens when you jump, or can it happen when other people force you into upward momentum?

 

[FrameImperfect]

Hmm..

My ds is dead but why does this happen?

It's not really a Wavedash but more like a hop, does it stop upward momentum or something?

Do you know if that only happens when you jump, or can it happen when other people force you into upward momentum?

As far as I know, you're only able to stop your own vertical movement. It mght help if you wanna get gimmicky and cancel ypur doube jump or move forward with your bucket.

 

[Ghost Pikmin]

Yeah I just noticed today that for some odd reason using bucket stops your upward vertical movement but actually makes you move faster horizontally. Unfortunately it takes too long to put away to be a viable movement option but who knows when a gimmicky movement trajectory will pay off.

 

[SFA Smiley]

So yeah Bucket Stalling is still sorta in but not as good. You can go under Battlefield with it though which is pretty cool.

After looking at the above posts, i decided to look into Bucket's momentum gimmicks because i didnt realize it stops upward momentum. If you use it once the second time you bucket in the air you will glide in a low grav fashion with the momentum you initiated with.

SO if you go offstage with bucket and save it with your double jump you will extend your time offstage. Doing this i was able to go under Battlefield and overall it's gimmicky but I can actually see real use for it since we won't be gettng edgehogged anymore.

Ill see if I can make practical use of it but it's mostly just kinda flashy or cool looking. going under the stage will surely amaze some people who don't know it's possible for GW

 

[_hunt]

So, yeah, I'm really feeling the nerfs now. My online record is 13-22 (all Game & Watch). I am by no means a 'great' smash player. But I am not 13-22 bad (probably more around the 50/50 mark to be honest). The majority of my matches are very close but it's just so difficult to have to get somebody to 150% each stock and hope to land a KO with the limited options available while simultaneously having no margin for error against some characters above 90%.

So many characters have specials that can KO, have tremendous reach with those and have multiple powerful options. G&W doesn't have any of that. I can rack damage up really well but I just cannot finish without a perfect read and I get punished so easily if I misread them even slightly.

Ah well, at least now the record is so badly skewed that losing doesn't really matter at this point and I can just persevere and learn.

 

[meleebrawler]

So, yeah, I'm really feeling the nerfs now. My online record is 13-22 (all Game & Watch). I am by no means a 'great' smash player. But I am not 13-22 bad (probably more around the 50/50 mark to be honest). The majority of my matches are very close but it's just so difficult to have to get somebody to 150% each stock and hope to land a KO with the limited options available while simultaneously having no margin for error against some characters above 90%.

So many characters have specials that can KO, have tremendous reach with those and have multiple powerful options. G&W doesn't have any of that. I can rack damage up really well but I just cannot finish without a perfect read and I get punished so easily if I misread them even slightly.

Ah well, at least now the record is so badly skewed that losing doesn't really matter at this point and I can just persevere and learn.

G&W seems to be at his best when edgeguarding, I once took out a Japanese Mario at 50% with a
well-timed Fair offstage. I feel that his goal when on-stage is to try to force opponents off and then guard.
He can cover nearly anything the opponent tries, flying high, you Up B to chase, and that recovery means
G&W can go very far offstage to stop people with Fair, or maybe drag them down with Nair.

And Bair is still an amazing spacing tool.

 

[WindozeNT]

Just won several consecutive local matches with Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[ConeZ]

So, yeah, I'm really feeling the nerfs now. My online record is 13-22 (all Game & Watch). I am by no means a 'great' smash player. But I am not 13-22 bad (probably more around the 50/50 mark to be honest). The majority of my matches are very close but it's just so difficult to have to get somebody to 150% each stock and hope to land a KO with the limited options available while simultaneously having no margin for error against some characters above 90%.

So many characters have specials that can KO, have tremendous reach with those and have multiple powerful options. G&W doesn't have any of that. I can rack damage up really well but I just cannot finish without a perfect read and I get punished so easily if I misread them even slightly.

Ah well, at least now the record is so badly skewed that losing doesn't really matter at this point and I can just persevere and learn.

Idk, I placed 13th at a major in SC the day after release with G&W, and I have a 70% win rate with him online. While I do agree killing can be a bit of a chore, it is not uncommon in this game to kill late, and his F-smash/ Up- smash are good kill moves.

Additionally, he does still have some busted bucket stuff in this game working for him in some matchups. He also gimps well, and fights well in the air. His bair is so good... sooooo good. His up-B goes straight through attacks you'd think would trade with it like ZSS's Dair and Bowser's down B. AND on top of that his d-throw to judgement seems to work on some characters which has pulled out some silly wins for me online.
I also want to point out that he is fast in this game, and his f-tilt is pretty good as well.

All in all, I think G&W has a fairly decent neutral game with good speed, and a good grab/ air game. He also has a few neat gimmicks, and some decent spacing. While he occasionally has trouble killing early, he has the tools to do so, and if you CAN manage to land one of his kill moves on a punish, it is nice.
That is not to say he doesn't have flaws, and there aren't hard matchups, but I do think he actually feels really good to me. For the first time, he has felt fluid to me, and I like him most of all the characters I have played so far.

Edit: Also something that is important: make sure you are shielding/ spot dodging, etc. I wasn't doing it, and I was losing, but once I started implementing it into my gameplay, it worked wonders.

 

[_hunt]

Idk, I placed 13th at a major in SC the day after release with G&W, and I have a 70% win rate with him online. While I do agree killing can be a bit of a chore, it is not uncommon in this game to kill late, and his F-smash/ Up- smash are good kill moves.

Additionally, he does still have some busted bucket stuff in this game working for him in some matchups. He also gimps well, and fights well in the air. His bair is so good... sooooo good. His up-B goes straight through attacks you'd think would trade with it like ZSS's Dair and Bowser's down B. AND on top of that his d-throw to judgement seems to work on some characters which has pulled out some silly wins for me online.
I also want to point out that he is fast in this game, and his f-tilt is pretty good as well.

All in all, I think G&W has a fairly decent neutral game with good speed, and a good grab/ air game. He also has a few neat gimmicks, and some decent spacing. While he occasionally has trouble killing early, he has the tools to do so, and if you CAN manage to land one of his kill moves on a punish, it is nice.
That is not to say he doesn't have flaws, and there aren't hard matchups, but I do think he actually feels really good to me. For the first time, he has felt fluid to me, and I like him most of all the characters I have played so far.

Edit: Also something that is important: make sure you are shielding/ spot dodging, etc. I wasn't doing it, and I was losing, but once I started implementing it into my gameplay, it worked wonders.

Agreed on all points to be honest. I started shielding (instead of purely rolling) and grabbing more and I've won 8 of my last 10 online games. Also, I'm really loving his f-tilt in this game. I don't remember it being that powerful!

I think all the losses forced me to start developing different ways of approaching situations. I'm also using the bucket for the first time ever (I never had to use it in brawl because my cousin only uses Toon Link) and it's really helping me.

 

[ConeZ]

Agreed on all points to be honest. I started shielding (instead of purely rolling) and grabbing more and I've won 8 of my last 10 online games. Also, I'm really loving his f-tilt in this game. I don't remember it being that powerful!

I think all the losses forced me to start developing different ways of approaching situations. I'm also using the bucket for the first time ever (I never had to use it in brawl because my cousin only uses Toon Link) and it's really helping me.

Nice
I think his moves aren't "nerfed" as much as they are tuned to be more in line with his being a small/light character, and the transition for most people between the old and new playstyle is weird. xD

 

[WindozeNT]

Nice
I think his moves aren't "nerfed" as much as they are tuned to be more in line with his being a small/light character, and the transition for most people between the old and new playstyle is weird. xD

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[ConeZ]

Can I just say that playing against Little Mac as really really back and forth because he wrecks you most of the time on the ground, but if you throw him off the side and use bair, fair, or even dair (you can save yourself with up-b after), as long as you hit him away from stage, he dies.

Like... the gimps are SO free. I just beat a Little Mac in less than a minute on For Glory, and I only took 11% because all I did was bait, then throw him off the side.
Also if you hit the key meteor/spike thing (not sure which it is) off the side, you CAN save yourself reliably, just in case people felt it too risky to try. Idk, I figure it is worth it since sweet spotting is so easy in this game.

 

[ConeZ]

On another note, I have played 27 matches with him in For Glory so far, and I am 20-7 at the moment with good ole G&W.

So far the only characters that really felt super hard were DHD and Marth (Lucina was easier for me), and the real problem with Marth and Lucina I guess... is that they have the shield breaker. Man that **** is busted xD
DHD just has some dumb zoning and camping options, and I haven't played against him enough to know what to do against it.

 

[SFA Smiley]

He sucks but I never said he was unusable. I still use him with decent success.

The hardest matchup i've done with GW?...

Dunno, I feel like marth and Lucina are way easier to deal with than brawl.

Good marths felt freaking impossible in that game.

I also like playing ZSS with GW.

 

[A2ZOMG]

On another note, I have played 27 matches with him in For Glory so far, and I am 20-7 at the moment with good ole G&W.

So far the only characters that really felt super hard were DHD and Marth (Lucina was easier for me), and the real problem with Marth and Lucina I guess... is that they have the shield breaker. Man that **** is busted xD
DHD just has some dumb zoning and camping options, and I haven't played against him enough to know what to do against it.

I think G&W while he's worse, he's actually more versatile than he was previously.

It's like, I don't think he has as many REALLY terrible matchups simply because they kinda just shifted his playstyle a bit. You don't train wreck people with walls like in Brawl, but rather you kinda more dart in and out and can space a bit more dynamically because your aerials end a bit sooner and because your DA is strong in footsies. Full hop double aerial spacing is better with G&W than in Brawl, which I think in the end makes G&W probably better off overall.

Have you tried to experiment to see if anything from Duck Hunt can be Bucketed? Either way yeah, Duck Hunt is kinda an ***, and probably creates most of the dumb matchups in this game.

 

[WindozeNT]

Have you tried to experiment to see if anything from Duck Hunt can be Bucketed? Either way yeah, Duck Hunt is kinda an ***, and probably creates most of the dumb matchups in this game.

 

[Substitution]

So, I've been wondering how to get better with Mr. G&W. Have any tips?

 

[_hunt]

Evade. Poke. Gimp.

Check the thread in this forum called 'Propaganda'. The first post is a good break down on how GDubs should be played in this game.

 

[Rakurai]

Game and Watch does feel more mobile in this game somehow.

The Heavy Trampoline custom just makes it insane, though, because while the jump is shorter, it's also a lot faster then the other trampoline customs, as you can perform aerials almost immediately after using it.

Really want to see some competitive G&W play that takes advantage of that custom.

 

[WindozeNT]

Random: the Find Mii stage shows where Mr. Game & Watch's eyes would be if he had any visible.

Spoiler

 

[Saikyoshi]

I was going Game & Watch shopping over the weekend and, why are they so damn expensive?!

The only ones I could find that were under three digits were so heavily damaged that it was depressing, and some of them were upwards of $2000.

And if that's not all, I almost bought one of the damaged ones, but most sellers only take PayPal, which I can't use due to complications right now. (Why do I have to send them a copy of a house or utility bill to activate my account? I still live at home and thus don't have bills in my name yet.)

Overall, I'm pretty much out of luck as a collector

 

[GmanSir]

I really should have gotten the Ball Game & Watch when it was on Club Nintendo.

 

[Saikyoshi]

Yea verily.

I almost got my hands on an original Helmet, but then a multiple auction snipe bidding war doubled the price at the last minute. Who knew our fandom was that dedicated?

 

[AetherEch0s]

Evade. Poke. Gimp.

Check the thread in this forum called 'Propaganda'. The first post is a good break down on how GDubs should be played in this game.

this. i've won like 6 for glory matches so far using this guide. he does have trouble finishing people off but if you keep dodging and poking they eventually will slip up and walk into a kill move at high enough% to actually die. you can actually gimp quite a few characters recovery with just chef or downsmash on the edge. little mac especially (throw him off and chef = dead mac)

 

[Gardex]

Everytime I use dair and dtilt my fingers start hurting like something is wrong

I'm really trying to figure out something that compensates for the lack of slowfall dair mixups. Any ideas?
Just feels extra bad when I jump to Smash 4 right after playing Brawl at a weekly tournament.

Dash attack and dthrow > 9 is hype tho

 

[Saikyoshi]

There's two good condition G&W machines (Manhole and Parachute) going for really, really cheap in six hours, but I can't get them because PayPal is being an ass.

*whiiiiine*

Everytime I use dair and dtilt my fingers start hurting like something is wrong

I'm really trying to figure out something that compensates for the lack of slowfall dair mixups. Any ideas?
Just feels extra bad when I jump to Smash 4 right after playing Brawl at a weekly tournament.

Dash attack and dthrow > 9 is hype tho

When it comes to dair mixups, I use Parachute. You can't fake out opponents with the speed anymore, but you can still confuse them with the position.

 

[Roze]

Anyone want to play? I just got the game recently, and I'm not used to this GnW incarnation, so I wanted to play some mirror matches.

 

[Rakurai]

I'm having much more fun using G&W in For Fun matches after learning that he can bucket almost every type of explosion.

Also had a lulzy match at the Great Fox where I got about seven KOs by bucketing the ship's cannons at every opportunity.

I really don't feel that confident using him in For Glory because of how frail he is, though.

 

[GmanSir]

Just keep playing as him, and you should do fine. Trying to predict your opponent's attacks are key.

 

[kujibiki57]

I'm really really liking G&W so far.
A nice thing with him is that with his Fire2 (the shorter one), there are a ton of combos you can perform, such as dthrow > upb > sideb or an aerial. Fire2 also lets you SH off the ledge and dair, then double jump and upb back into the ledge, which imo is great for gimps.
I haven't tested much what you can do with Fire1 for combos, but maybe that's a thing.

 

[BluePikmin11]

His melee range sucks now, I can barely hit anyone with almost any attack aside from D-Tilt.

 

[Regi_King]

He is pretty good but what most people have already recalled, he lacks any real killing moves, but wow, gimping he is beast. His ftilt got a nice buff as being fast like in order to replace the nerfed dtilt. The nice thing about dtilt is getting to push people up, making them think they will be thrown off the stage, thus doing an Up+B and landing helpless toward the stage, perfect for anything you wish to do to them <3
I'm having trouble getting used to him, mained him since Melee, but he is far from useless.

 

[CommanderVimes]

Is G&W the most aerial mobile character in this game? I do not think I've seen another character have comparable air speed, and having an ubB with no drawbacks puts him there for me. Deciding whether I should use him or Meta Knight in that kind of role of uncatchable jump around dude.

 

[aldelaro5]

Well, it looks like I'm going to do what I doubt ssb4 would do on me, get deeper in competitive core gameplay to improve skills.

I think it's important to make my first post here (this is a general thread about my main since ssbm after all) to introduce me because I'm planning to use him a lot more efficiantly since ssb4 is changing significantly the way I play smash.

Let's just say that I never enjoyed smash really as a fighting game because I just was enjoying so much solo modes that it sort of became my main way of playing. Couldn't local multiplayer and online in brawl with a 5mbps internet...just forget about it. I basically didn't see the point so I was enjoying it with what I love the most of the series, the broad repping of video game masterpieces and I still enjoy the most this aspect today...but now, I realised that the new game is going to change another way of playing the game I didn't care before.

There was 2 reasons I never tried to enjoy it as a deep fighting game:

I never had the chances to have human opponnents (I also dislike local multiplayer for weird reasons actually) and the most important one the speed.

I doubted that ssb4 would change my mindset because of the online modes. I could either try to get into skills or just battle "for fun" (sorry, didn;t find how to not say it ). So, I was not expecting anything, but was doubful. When I played the game with some friends I had in PM however...

It felt just "perfect". I don't know, I only played the fast speed of ssbm and the kinda slow one from ssbb (the later made loading a bit frustrating in solo actually so I even knew about it) and I never tried a true FFA with ssb4. SSBM is actually ok, but not from someone who has some sight issues so that when I watched EVO (I don't care usually, but wanted to lurk a bit), I literally could not get what was going on every seconds and I know that a seconds is a lot when you play like this (I was into the speedrunning community and I learned that time perception can be very screwed depending on how you play a game). It was just too much for my eyes.

Then brawl, well yeah I could get mostly, but here's the thing, here it was too easy to get what I was seeing. Like, I don't know but when you jump and you feel it's a bit floaty, it just doesn't hit the spot. It's hard to explain, but let's just say that I would like a bit closer to melee as long as it's not that slow. I think I watched P:M, and I found it was a bitt too fast (ok, I'm really picky sometimes in tastes so, if it wasn't the same speed, it's because I'm picky).

In ssb4 however, it just felt that not only I could see most of what was going on, but also that I found the game so smooth and fluid enpugh to make me want to do things by reflex. If it's not my exact tastes, it's so close that I quickly felt in love with online matches and nasically, multiplayer at all.

Now, here;s where it gets to G&W: I loved him since melee by far the most. There's a weird circumstances with the 2D and his unified colors, but at the least, it was mostly because of the animations and their originality. Now, for unknown reasons, I just turned out to not only like his aesthetic, but now, I felt in love with his control especially because of his upb. I was bad at recovering with limited upb but this one was so good vertically that it became my favourite on solo modes to use and it was the same in brawl and this game. not to mention I felt his controls were "smple, but to the point". It's weird to explain, but I basically liked to play him.

Now, 2 games after, it never changed (in fact I didn't even noticed he changed that much until I came lurking here recently), but now, I just want to say that it;s not going to be just solo.

Ok, I just want to make you an idea of why I was such a noob: I RARELY used the R button. I really didn't even care to use it. The only time I used it was to avoid the wave of tabuu in ssbb to beat boss battles at intense, nothing else. There's stuff I never cared like, why exactly some characters has projectile that hit so little? How can bucket be useful if it take so much conditions to use it? Why R + A can be useful if I can just press L?

Like, I basically didn't care to those questions.

Now, I played some for glory the first day I did online, and I quickly got how much significant these questions were and ESPECIALLY the R button. I didn;t get that it's very important so, I use it more and more. Then, I learned that projectile are to make ko easier so I use bucket if it takes it and then I realised how much ko it can do (fun thing: most kos i did with it was unknown from the opponents). Then I learned the useful nair sometimes, the dtilt wind it does, the edgeguard...everything I had to know and now, I;m still a bt bad, but getting better.

Which is why I really want to tell you that I'm learning more and more and this will take a lot of time, but I only 1v1 online now. Like, I got how annoying ko can be, but I also love how up b is useful because I like it before.

Dodging to punish after? It feels good actually and I'm getting further than I expected because I was simply bad before that I never tough some manouvers were possible.

Since I got that my next improvment should be to shift focus as the matches goes between me and my opponent cue, I think it';s time now to frequent this forum more because I already learned very useful stuff.

So, I did heard of the nerf, but I think I can get quite good with him to still be good overall, I just need to learn a lot by experience.

I hope I can be of an help as soon as I got enough info because I'm still learning now

 

[MBakhsh]

You know, when I first got the game I wasn't playing a whole lot of G&W. I mained him in both Melee and Brawl, but after I unlocked him I played him a few times and then saw myself gravitating to other characters. Eventually I realized why: ridiculous pointless nerfs all over the place. Sure he was pretty much trash tier in Melee, but at least he was a freaking powerhouse then. You look at who got significant nerfs from Brawl and you see Meta Knight, Olimar, Falco, Marth, and...Game & Watch? Seriously?

The big issue for me is that he has all this speed and agility, but he can't dish out the pain anywhere nearly as well as he used to. In fact, this agility makes him seem very difficult to control for me. So then I realized...why not use the custom equipment to fix this? I came up with a setup with +43 attack, -10 defense, and -22 speed, and while I was at it I gave him Short-Order Chef for a more reliable and less spammy projectile, Chain Judge to prevent racking up his own damage since he can now get several 1's in short succession (also 4, 5, 7, and 8 become much more useful), and Efficient Panic as he'll be hard pressed to ever fill up the bucket in a game, even against Fox. Suddenly we've got what feels like an efficient, usable character instead of an unwilling participant in a twisted game of cat and mouse, and the new specials even fix many of his old flaws from Melee and Brawl. This of course doesn't bring back extended hitboxes, better sweetspots, the shield-shredding Brawl bair of doom, or an up tilt that won't make your opponent burst out laughing every time you put it out, but it's a great improvement for me.

If you're not a fan of new G&W like me, try this setup out if you haven't already. You'll actually be getting KO's that aren't from edgeguarding! Hooray!

 

[WindozeNT]

You know, when I first got the game I wasn't playing a whole lot of G&W. I mained him in both Melee and Brawl, but after I unlocked him I played him a few times and then saw myself gravitating to other characters. Eventually I realized why: ridiculous pointless nerfs all over the place. Sure he was pretty much trash tier in Melee, but at least he was a freaking powerhouse then. You look at who got significant nerfs from Brawl and you see Meta Knight, Olimar, Falco, Marth, and...Game & Watch? Seriously?

The big issue for me is that he has all this speed and agility, but he can't dish out the pain anywhere nearly as well as he used to. In fact, this agility makes him seem very difficult to control for me. So then I realized...why not use the custom equipment to fix this? I came up with a setup with +43 attack, -10 defense, and -22 speed, and while I was at it I gave him Short-Order Chef for a more reliable and less spammy projectile, Chain Judge to prevent racking up his own damage since he can now get several 1's in short succession (also 4, 5, 7, and 8 become much more useful), and Efficient Panic as he'll be hard pressed to ever fill up the bucket in a game, even against Fox. Suddenly we've got what feels like an efficient, usable character instead of an unwilling participant in a twisted game of cat and mouse, and the new specials even fix many of his old flaws from Melee and Brawl. This of course doesn't bring back extended hitboxes, better sweetspots, the shield-shredding Brawl bair of doom, or an up tilt that won't make your opponent burst out laughing every time you put it out, but it's a great improvement for me.

If you're not a fan of new G&W like me, try this setup out if you haven't already. You'll actually be getting KO's that aren't from edgeguarding! Hooray!

I hope they start releasing balance patches that buff Mr.Game & Watch to what he needs to be. Let's complain to Nintendo until they listen. And they should bring back Ice Climbers.
Also, I tried giving him +136 attack just because and now everything causes 50% damage. His final smash turns him into a god.

 

[MBakhsh]

I hope they start releasing balance patches that buff Mr.Game & Watch to what he needs to be. Let's complain to Nintendo until they listen. And they should bring back Ice Climbers.
Also, I tried giving him +136 attack just because and now everything causes 50% damage. His final smash turns him into a god.

Yeah, definitely. I mainly just want the things I listed at the end of my post. G&W is single-handedly reversing my opinion on equipment in competitive play right now. At the least I think an exception should be made for him as well as other potentially low tier characters that could use some buffs (faster stronger Ganon, anyone?)