N64 controller - any new breakthroughs?

[Stormcrow2]

You all know the single, yet major downfall of the original N64 nintendo brand controllers - the joysticks wear out to ****. But still (IMO), they are the best controllers for the job. Once my stick gets really worn out, I can tweak with it in control panel to increase sensitivity, but still there is nothing like a brand-new joystick. Unfortunately, those don't exist anymore, and probably never will.

Has anyone seen any posts on other forums of fixes for the joystick (possibly some epoxy?), or seen any mods to original N64 controllers?

-Cleaning the controller only does so much. In fact, it does very little, but can help to add lubricant to the ball of the stock, probably extending its life.

-The tape fix just seems like an awful idea.

-I tried doing a gamecube joystick inside a 3rd party N64 controller - got it rewired, and it was recognized, but I only had one axis of movement with the stick, then gave up on it because it (the joystick) would have been hard to mount inside the controller, and the original N64 controllers are still cooler looking and better feeling. Long story short, I don't really recommend trying this unless you have a lot of experience with modding/soldering.

-I haven't tried replacing the spring, but I'm guessing that wouldn't really do much, since I stretched mine out a bit and it didn't feel any different after.

Please don't just say "buy a replacement stick off amazon". While they are incredibly simple to replace (when you get the whole joystick "box" piece), they are almost always out of stock, and even if they have them in stock, they are USED and probably not in that great of shape anyway. The focus here is on improving crappy, worn-out joysticks, or coming up with some near-permanent fix.

Any thoughts, comments?
-Storm

 

[Surri-Sama]

The replacement sticks you talk about are always 3rd party sticks as well.

I think someone recently posted pics with one, but they never said how it felt or played compared to the normal stick.

 

[Sempiternity]

I've got some experience with soldering and wiring, and am gonna test out GC stick mods in a week during Thanksgiving break. I also bought a couple third party sticks for the hell of it to see how they handle, since blaze reported that they functioned differently from an original stick and had more of GC feel.

Your best bet for preserving original sticks is to lube it up before you use it, and keep it lubed, but since I'm sure none of you (including myself) did that, repairs are in order. You've really no choice but to actually reconstruct the stick, using epoxy or something. Nothing will make it seem tighter or like new if the fact of the matter is that you're missing part of the stick.

Sad, I know. ;_;

 

[Stormcrow2]

I came across a couple useful links - these mods looks excellent. Only thing is that this is way harder to do with the official N64 controllers, because the gamecube and all newer joystick use pots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga8rLSz64XQ
http://kylejw.heliohost.org/index.shtml

Anyway, keep me posted on how your mod goes. I may attempt to do one also, but not until I'm on my long winter break.

 

[Purtle]

I've gotten a replacement one off of amazon. It's almost never out of stock...

 

[Sempiternity]

I came across a couple useful links - these mods looks excellent. Only thing is that this is way harder to do with the official N64 controllers, because the gamecube and all newer joystick use pots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga8rLSz64XQ
http://kylejw.heliohost.org/index.shtml

Anyway, keep me posted on how your mod goes. I may attempt to do one also, but not until I'm on my long winter break.

Yeah, I actually made quite a few posts in another thread a couple days ago about modding 64 controllers. All third party controllers except for two that I know of (can't remember the name, but if you mention it, I'll be able to tell you) use potentiometers, so it can't be an official controller. I have everything right now, but need a dremel and soldering iron which I don't have in my dorm room.

I think blazesomethingorother posted about modding an official 64 controller with photodiodes, and it involved the use of programming an integrated circuit and some complex wiring to get the pots to convert over. It looked like more hassle than it's worth, especially since most 3rd party controllers are fine with everything except good joysticks.

I'll stick with pots to pots, thank you very much!

 

[blaze3927]

Official N64 analog stick, using gamecube/psx analog sticks

Advanced modders- electronics/casework:

Read This
http://kylejw.heliohost.org/index.shtml
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3574.0
basically the two links are for deciding whether your more comfortable with AVR or PIC's.

Memium level modders- casework/low level electronics

http://kylejw.heliohost.org/index.shtml
buy kylejw's pre set up chip and follow his guide for building the translator and installing a psx/gc analog

http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36609
http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?t=11318
buy a superpad64 and just swap it with a psone/gamecube analog. (it uses potentiometers unlike official n64 controller)

i can use a screwdriver modders- can use a screwdriver

http://www.nintendorepairshop.com/products/71-N64-Controllers/1821-New-N64-Controller-Thumbstick-Repair-Part/
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m98/TrekkiesUnite118/Analog3.jpg
buy that, havent tested it personally but pic should explain.


everything that isnt in noob level requires case work with dremel, abs cement, epoxy putty/bondo, and paint for a pro looking product. it can be done with just hotglue but it'll look and probably function ****

I have a lot of time on my hands at the moment and may be modding some official controllers to sell with psone/gamecube analog sticks using either kyleJW's PIC or more likely micro's AVR"S (which i cant get to work atm, but still trying)

its generally recommended not to try and repair n64 analog sticks. too finicky

 

[blaze3927]

Unsure if this is along the same lines, i completely forgot about it until just now:
http://cia.vc/stats/project/navi-misc/cube64
lets you use a gamecube controller on your n64, unsure if this should go in this thread.
would be for advanced electronics modders, however casework doesn't affect function.

 

[Battlecow]

A friend of mine is going to try to mod me a Keyboard that plugs into an N64 (inb4 hate), and I know nothing about these things, but he seems to think he can do it. Any advice for him?

 

[The Star King]

Why not just play on an emulator? :S

 

[blaze3927]

A friend of mine is going to try to mod me a Keyboard that plugs into an N64 (inb4 hate), and I know nothing about these things, but he seems to think he can do it. Any advice for him?

very tricky, first look at trying to input the n64's analog as digital buttons.
if he can do that then he should be ok

 

[sharksquail]

A friend of mine is going to try to mod me a Keyboard that plugs into an N64 (inb4 hate), and I know nothing about these things, but he seems to think he can do it. Any advice for him?

re mapping the buttons to keyboard keys would be relatively easy. however i'm not sure how you would deal with the joy stick, and as far as i know there is no way to control you char on console with the d pad. but good luck anyway.

ninja'd dam you blaze

 

[Surri-Sama]

I swear if i ever see someone try to play with a KB on console ima just leave where ever i am and go home

 

[Sempiternity]

How's this for a breakthrough? I just remembered that my old high school got a 3D printer for one of the computer labs a few years back. It might be possible to draw the actual grey joystick part in CAD and then make a solid model out of it. Not sure what the quality of the plastic is, but I made a few parts back in the day, and it seemed solid enough.

The hard part would be drawing the joystick exactly to size. Break out the caliper!

I wonder if Nintendo would give me the dimensions of the stupid stick if I asked...

Haha, this is probably getting on the desperate side, but it's still interesting to think about it. Problem is, I don't know the original specs of the bottom of the stick since mine's all ground away to nothing...

 

[Battlecow]

^^This is a trick to get one of us to send you a controller with a working stick, isn't it?

 

[Sempiternity]

Ohoho!

Actually, I have a few that are decent, but none that are in optimal condition (I doubt very many of you do, either).

How do I go about emailing Nintendo? Do they have real people read the support emails?

Christ, this is too much work.

 

[blaze3927]

wouldnt get much luck contacting nintendo im afraid, however a lot of there documentation was released 5 or so years ago so you may get lucky.
someone started doing something similar a while back but they were trying to do it casting metal. it was a bit wtf. they didn't get very far.

 

[Sempiternity]

I can't imagine metal would work too well, unless it was something light like aluminum. Even so, I doubt it'd feel the same.

Any ideas as to how to get that documentation?

Also, I bought one of those replacement joysticks from the Nintendo Repair shop, and am trying it out. The build quality is actually **** good for a third party. It feels very much like a GC stick, albeit smaller. Having some troubles setting the ranges and deadzones, though, and I feel like it lags ever so slightly. Might not be a good choice for Smash, but definitely for other games.

I am having trouble doing basic things like dash-dancing and pivots are friggin' impossible. Actually, all smash attacks are difficult, because it seems the stick is milliseconds behind the buttons, so I get tilts or dash attacks when trying to Usmash (out of running).

Other than that, it feels smooth, but I wouldn't recommend it for games which require precision joystick input.

What do you have your range/deadzone set at?

 

[TANK64]

wow battlecow, please don't defile an N64.

 

[sharksquail]

I can't imagine metal would work too well, unless it was something light like aluminum. Even so, I doubt it'd feel the same.

Any ideas as to how to get that documentation?

Also, I bought one of those replacement joysticks from the Nintendo Repair shop, and am trying it out. The build quality is actually **** good for a third party. It feels very much like a GC stick, albeit smaller. Having some troubles setting the ranges and deadzones, though, and I feel like it lags ever so slightly. Might not be a good choice for Smash, but definitely for other games.

I am having trouble doing basic things like dash-dancing and pivots are friggin' impossible. Actually, all smash attacks are difficult, because it seems the stick is milliseconds behind the buttons, so I get tilts or dash attacks when trying to Usmash (out of running).

Other than that, it feels smooth, but I wouldn't recommend it for games which require precision joystick input.

What do you have your range/deadzone set at?

I've bought replacement sticks offline before and they felt just like the original sticks. I've never seen any replacement sticks that were a completely different build. also from the sticks that ive taken apart it hasn't been the actual stick that was degraded, but rather the plastic stirrup that it sits in.

 

[blaze3927]

unsure about deadzone/range.
best op is to start with range 1t 100%, deadzone at 1% then work you way down/up respectively.
and yes it is usually the plastic casing that deteoriates, the material/plastic compound used isnt meant for slide di or mario party

 

[F-Tier Player]

also from the sticks that ive taken apart it hasn't been the actual stick that was degraded, but rather the plastic stirrup that it sits in.

If there was a way to mold all the mounts inside using more resilient material. I needed a completely new controller but I just bought one in almost new condition. The joystick is not loose in the least but the price was about twice as much as it was a decade ago.

 

[Battlecow]

My inb4 totally worked.

 

[blaze3927]

yay microchips work


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

works great, this one was a quick prototype and works perfect, however a little off center. its programmed so that when you hold b on n64 startup the range goes higher, so your cursor is faster and di is better.
ill do a video soon, this in my opinion is 100x better than the n64 analog. things i can do which i cant on n64 stick:
dash dance all characters
running fastfalled ledge drop uairs
pivot taunt drop ledge hog
the list goes on.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

are you upping the range to match the n64 range?

 

[blaze3927]

are you upping the range to match the n64 range?

n64 range seems to vary
the actual range provided by n64 analogs ranges between an amount of steps, and its still not currently known what the default step is supposed to be.
However when maxing out the range on my modded analog stick it appears faster/higher than any official standard n64 analog ive ever come across.
this is the same story across console and emulator via adapter.
my opinion may be biased as i usually played ssb with an xbox s controller, i'll get ciaza to see what he thinks/feels of it when he comes around this week, he plays only with a standard official n64 controller

 

[3mmanu3lrc]

I've gotten a replacement one off of amazon. It's almost never out of stock...

Did it work??
EDITED:
I recently got two of them, but haven't use it yet, 'cuz my stick is still good.

 

[Sempiternity]

I'm glad your stick works, blaze...

I tried and tried and tried with my piece of **** third party controller to get a GC stick in there, but no luck. The most I could get was movement on both axes, but only along the positive directions, and it was almost D-pad-like. No variable change, which defeats the purpose of switching in a new analog stick!

Well, then I decided to take it to the multimeter; I was hoping that it would fit in, no problems, and I would live happily in ignorance of what the pot values were.

Sadly, luck never graces me with its presence, and so I had to measure the range of resistances of my third party and GC stick.

The third party ranged roughly from 0 (not exactly zero since that's a short) to about 60000 ohms, while the GC ranged roughly from 0 to 15000 ohms. I'm sure that this is the reason I'm not getting any variable movement, i.e. the coils of the resistor aren't close enough (and they're pretty **** close) to detect variable movement.

ANYWAY, I tried throwing in a 30k resistor, but that didn't work, because it only raised the range from 30000 to 45000, not 0 to 45000, which would have been ideal. Shoulda seen that coming... basic series circuits, but I was willing to try anything!


TL:DR
My third party controller isn't compatible with a GC stick without further modification. I'll need to find another third party, like a Superpad that has closer pot values if this is going to work.

****

 

[sharksquail]

Blaze did you need any kind of specialty equipment to make that controller?

 

[Sempiternity]

He needed a controller to get a joystick and a microcontroller that he programmed himself, I presume. I think I remember him mentioning that he found the code online somewhere.

I have a crapload of old integrated circuits from that digital electronics class I took, but it's just a bunch of simple NAND and NOR and whatever circuits that I can't do anything with except make lightbulbs turn on and off in cool ways.

I think he ordered that microcontroller from some crazy Japanese site or something. I could be completely wrong here!

 

[sharksquail]

do you have any idea how much it would cost to make one, assuming you already have the controllers. also does anyone know if this controller would work online?

 

[Sempiternity]

I don't think it's too expensive, but I guess we'll have to wait for blaze. If I remember correctly, ICs only cost like a couple cents nowadays, but I'm sure the sites that sell them for non-commercial use probably inflate the price out the *** to like $15-$20.

And yes, it should work online. All you've done is replace the joystick, and if it works on a console, it should work on a computer/online.

Basically, you'll be needing to do a few things to complete the controller:
1) Buy a microcontroller
2) Program it
3) Salvage a joystick from a GC/Wii
4) Dremel into the original N64 joystick casing to create enough room for the new stick (you can also purchase a third party stick mechanism if you don't want to destroy a genuine one. The reason you need to use the joystick casing is because it would be too difficult otherwise to secure the Z-button thingo into place without the plastic parts that it clips into. Open it up and you'll see exactly what I mean.)
5) Wire the circuit!
6) Apply cosmetic finishes!
7) Gloat!

 

[blaze3927]

Ahh semp that sucks about the gc replacement, but superpads have been confirmed to work with Gc sticks. however im unsure whether superpads work with n64 usb adapters



microchips in small orders 1-20 go for about $3-$6 each (Both avr and pics, pics usually $1 cheaper). but programming them is the catch.

it will work offline and online.

AVR:
programmer: $12 shipped
breakout board (option 1, more expensive, but saves hassle): $22 shipped
custom breakout board (option 2, cheaper but a little more hassle, resistors, isp header, wire,): $5
capcitor, wire, resistor: $2


Pic:
option 1:
programmer: $20-$70, depending on quality and if you go for a real pic kit or not.
wire/perf board: $8
option 2:
buy kyle jw's pre built pcb for only $12.50 shipped for one, discounts for more orders. easier and relatively cheap if you only want 1 - 3 made.

and then the universals:
n64 controller: $10-$20 doesnt matter about condition of stick
Gc controller or ps1/2 controller or wii classic controller or wii classicacontroller pro: $10-25
controllers like the psone and classica controllers will give you two sticks and guides/octagonal thing.

now the protype i built took me about half an hour, and works great except that its off center a little, this only required pliers and hot glue. Someone who spent an amount of time with just hot glue and pliers can achieve similar/better quality than my prototype, however i recommend a dremel and bondo/abs cement for a clean job.


not much cutting is required on the n64 controller, most cutting is removing the guide/octagonal thing from the gc/ps2/wii classic joystick.

 

[Sempiternity]

I give you credit for going through with all that. Nice work! And I'm gonna try a Superpad sometime if I get the chance or find a cheap one. However, I'm not really a fan of the shape, and I've heard the Z-button is a bit iffy in quality. I'll search around for other controllers that are confirmed to work with a GC stick. I really want to get this to work.

And I forgot about cutting out the octagonal thing from the GC/Wii controller... I never got that far in my mod. So sad! The plan for mine was to just have the stick box thing sit on top, outside the controller for the time being until I got the controls worked out correctly. Ahh... still so much work to be done.

blaze, do you know anything about the pot values of GC sticks and third party sticks? Tried any pot-to-pot mods? I'm trying to find out as much as I can.

 

[King Funk]

I swear if i ever see someone try to play with a KB on console ima just leave where ever i am and go home

I'd find it hilarious. We could have our one and only MAD-FIGHTER playing with us with keyboard...... on console!

Mind = blown.

 

[dandan]

I'd find it hilarious. We could have our one and only MAD-FIGHTER playing with us with keyboard...... on console!

Mind = blown.

the keyboard would probably break mid match though

 

[randomguy737]

Little late, but may be useful:

http://cia.vc/stats/project/navi-misc/cube64

 

[NixxxoN]

Little late, but may be useful:

http://cia.vc/stats/project/navi-misc/cube64

OMG WTF
looks great
I love the GC controller

waiting for a review...

 

[Theftz22]

The last message was in 2004...

Is there still a place to buy?

 

[blaze3927]

im pretty sure no one makes the Cube64 and has stock to sell.
however anyone that knows how to use a soldering iron and program microchips could build one for you.
i only knew of one person that built this himself and he was pretty happy with it, however he didnt post much on the analog stick sensitivity/other stuff important to smash players. all buttons are customizeable though, pretty neat.

and @ sempeternity sorry for late reply, i must've missed that last post, i have never had much success with pot to pot mods, and i dont know the resistance of gamecube pot's of the top of my head, but 15Kohms neut, 0 South and 30 Kohms North sounds familiar. its rather finicky doing pot swaps unless you get lucky with your 3rd party controller, cnfirmed to work are the superpads with gc analogs im pretty sure.