Ness Matchup Discussion (PRELIMINARY)

[Earthbound360]

I feel like this matchup has been beaten to death.
It's kind of funny too, since Ness players think it's bad, while some Rosalina players think it's bad too.

But just some quick inputs.
If you're off stage, recover high whenever possible, lest you get PKT gimped (we all know about this by now).
If you edgeguard Rosy, make SURE you can get back to the stage with your double jump alone. I refuse to go deep enough to requrie a PKT2 recovery.
Luma is fun to make PK Fire walls off of.
When you grab Rosy, throw her immediately. If Luma is too close however, you might want to refrain from using dthrow, as Luma can hit you immediately after the animation ends if he's near. I'd suggest uthrow, move away from Luma, then follow up with uair juggles (as Rosy is floaty).
Punishing Rosy's recovery with Ness is actually not that hard. Nair againstl ow recoveries, usmash (most reliable IMO)/dash attack/grab (strongest) out of dash for on stage recoveries.

 

[Ranias]

I guess a good way to look at this matchup without jumping around too much would be to analyze for different positionings.

All Positions

• You should try to go HAM whenever you manage to kill Luma, especially with the Luma respawn nerf. Just try to not be predictable when approaching, because Rosalina's hitboxes are huge.
• If Luma is behind Ness, you should also try to rush down Rosalina.
• If Luma gets close to Ness, Ness is at a disadvantage since he can't grab Luma, and Rosalina can try to get free damage in.
• Note that Luma can't recover from knockback until it hits the ground, so try to juggle it off the edge with Nairs or Fairs whenever possible.
• Ness's aerials often beat out Rosalina's. Grounded Rosalina is tall enough to get hit by most of them in a short hop.

Long Range, Both Grounded

• I feel like the long range game is -1.
• If Luma is on Rosalina, then no one is at an advantage.
• Ness is at a disadvantage if Luma is close.
  
• If Luma is midrange, Ness is at a slight advantage, since he can sometimes hit Luma with PK Fire (it sometimes passes under), but Rosalina can also recall Luma if Ness tries to approach.

Mid Range, Both Grounded

• I think the mid range game is +1.
• If Luma is on Rosalina, then Ness is at an advantage due to being at a great spacing distance for PK Fire. Luma will also burn if it manages to score a hit on Rosalina.

Close Range, Both Grounded

• This is mostly neutral. 0.
• Approaching with Ness is probably safest with short hopped Fairs or Nairs. Just be wary of shield grabs.
• Grabbing Rosalina is risky if Luma is there. Try to hit once then throw, but never Down Throw.
• Rosalina's Dash Attack is fast and out prioritizes most of Ness's attacks. It's only safe to counter it with a shield grab.
• If Rosalina tries to approach via short hops, then you can try to counter with shield grabs, short hopped Fairs, or PK Thunder.
• Quick Luma Shots make Ness approaching via ground kind of dangerous.

Rosalina above Ness

• I give this a +1.
• Rosalina falls kind of slowly so Ness can try to juggle her with a mixup of Up Airs and PK Thunders.
• Rosalina can Down B the PK Thunder kind of consistently, but Ness can try snaking it around so as to not get grabbed by it and hit Rosalina immediately after it.
• Rosalina's Down Air is sustained for a long time, but Ness's Up Air can quickly punish its startlag and endlag.

Ness above Rosalina

• This is probably -2. Ness's Down Air is horrible in this situation.
• Ness doesn't really have any options against Rosalina's Up Air.
• You can try stalling with PK Thunder into PKT2 or PSI Magnet for mindgames.
• It's safest to try to just fast fall to the ground ASAP.

Rosalina off the edge

• This is a +2. Ness is a really good edgeguarder in general.
• Rosalina's Up B is very punishable with aerials or PK Thunder, but you have to time it well.
• I usually try to go the safe route with just sending PK Thunders until she Up Bs, then going in with the appropriate aerial.

Ness off the edge

• This is the killer. -3.
• Rosalina's Down B can grab Ness's PK Thunder rather easily.
• You should try to not use PK Thunder off the edge at all if you can.
• If you have to, use PK Thunder from far away or recover high.
• Rosalina's sustained hitboxes on her aerials are super annoying here. Try to sneak in Fairs or Nairs.

My overall verdict is -1, maybe -2

• Maybe -2 because she is one of the hardest, if not the hardest matchup.
• Spacing is very important in this matchup.

Stage Counterpick

• I don't own and haven't played much WiiU, but I can talk based on the 3DS choices.
• Ness excels on big stages with many obstacles to weave PK Thunder through, like Arena Ferox.
• Ness also excels on stages with platforms like Battlefield because of PK Thunder and aerials, but Rosalina can also take advantage of these stages with her up smash and aerials.
• Rosalinas apparently hate Prism Tower because it is wonky with her recovery. Nesses might have a few problems on this stage too though for the same reason.
• Don't you dare pick Yoshi's Island.
• I wish I knew more about WiiU version's stages.

tl;dr: -1, maybe -2

 

[Luco]

A quick note on that; Ness mains traditionally are quite good with Prism tower - the ledges don't give us too much of a problem and we kill very very early.

On wii U stages I'm not sure. How would we feel about stuff like Delfino?

 

[ilysm]

I may be sounding like a bit of a groupie, but Awestin's match againt iGGY's Rosalina showcases some really nice PKT trickery and counter-Luma play. Overall, though, PKT1 can be used in the neutral to bait an instinctive Gravity Pull, which you can usually punish with a quick nair or uair.

On the subject of Rosalina's disgusting Gravity Pull gimp, I've noticed something that I'm sure some other people have figured out too. When Rosa uses her Gravity Pull on our PKT, it looks like the PKT hitbox is 'converted', i.e it's Rosa's hitbox now. The PKT does a large, complex swirly animation around Rosa before vanishing. If Ness gets hit by the tail OR the head of PKT while this is happening, he gets a second chance and recovery, and might make it back on stage before the ending lag for the Gravity Pull is finished. So, if you're super desperate, bait her into letting you recover close. You may get a new lease on life.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

I may be sounding like a bit of a groupie, but Awestin's match againt iGGY's Rosalina showcases some really nice PKT trickery and counter-Luma play. Overall, though, PKT1 can be used in the neutral to bait an instinctive Gravity Pull, which you can usually punish with a quick nair or uair.

On the subject of Rosalina's disgusting Gravity Pull gimp, I've noticed something that I'm sure some other people have figured out too. When Rosa uses her Gravity Pull on our PKT, it looks like the PKT hitbox is 'converted', i.e it's Rosa's hitbox now. The PKT does a large, complex swirly animation around Rosa before vanishing. If Ness gets hit by the tail OR the head of PKT while this is happening, he gets a second chance and recovery, and might make it back on stage before the ending lag for the Gravity Pull is finished. So, if you're super desperate, bait her into letting you recover close. You may get a new lease on life.

I loved that trick play so much I went ahead and made a gif of it:

While we're on the topic, I've found that recovering from farther under, circling PKT towards the stage, instead of the usual way, works decently enough to be a preferable option to the easily gimped standard.

 

[PKBeam]

On the subject of Rosalina's disgusting Gravity Pull gimp, I've noticed something that I'm sure some other people have figured out too. When Rosa uses her Gravity Pull on our PKT, it looks like the PKT hitbox is 'converted', i.e it's Rosa's hitbox now. The PKT does a large, complex swirly animation around Rosa before vanishing. If Ness gets hit by the tail OR the head of PKT while this is happening, he gets a second chance and recovery, and might make it back on stage before the ending lag for the Gravity Pull is finished. So, if you're super desperate, bait her into letting you recover close. You may get a new lease on life.

IIRC If Gravity Pull is already out before PKT comes out then it'll just suck up the PKT, no hitbox or whatever.

 

[ilysm]

Hm. It would appear it has different properties if used after the PKT comes out, then. Right here is an example of what I'm talking about. You can see that the tail just barely nicks him and he goes into hitstun and out of helpless, allowing him to PKT again. And here's the part where the head hits him. Both times, the Pull comes out after the fact, so you could be right. In which case, perhaps we could bait out the Pull and then recover during the ending lag. Can anyone test to get a confirm?

I guess the idea of strategies like this, plus utilizing what Enigma mentioned above, would be to discourage the Rosalina from going in deep to gimp you, so you can recover with some breathing room if they respect your personal space. Between PKT2's strength at high percents and the possibility of a gimp refreshing Ness's recovery, they sometimes might be better off using aerials or staying onstage. Of course, you can only threaten them in this two-pronged way at higher percentages, and it is fairly risky. I still think it's something to consider, though.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

I also get the feeling that people get stuck in a rut only using Ness' back throw. It is the most powerful throw, but that doesn't always mean it is the best option. From the "wrong" side of the stage (where a back throw would have to travel maximum distance), you should always try for an up throw, unless you're certain you will KO with the back throw. Rosalina is definitely light enough to be killed with an up throw, and her diagonal down aerial game is weak, so you can always try a follow up aerial if you approach at an angle to avoid her defensive dairs as she tries to fall.

Watching Awestin's play (from the match I gif'd), it made me realize it is something many of us may be unconsciously doing in response to Smash 4's harder KOs.

 

[Luco]

It took me a long time to become patient with my throws. If I have a Bowser at 140% on the opposite side of FD i'll still Fthrow him (unless i'm on rage myself) because if I recall the kill throw on Bowser is somewhere around the 155% mark from the opposite side of FD. Possibly 160%.

Anyway, in regards to Rosalina, she's only ever so slightly heavier than the likes of jiggz and G&W. I think you'd be killing her around the 110% mark pretty confidently from centre-stage. Before that, probs best to go for other throws so as not to stale it.

 

[Ranias]

Are we prepared to take 51 weeks (one week less than a year) to finish this for 51 matchups?

I wouldn't mind speeding it up.

 

[Luco]

Are we prepared to take 51 weeks (one week less than a year) to finish this for 51 matchups?

I wouldn't mind speeding it up.

Match-up stuff does tend to take a really long time haha.

But we don't really know enough about all 51 characters to go through all of them, so realistically atm we can only do like 20-30 at the most (more likely 10-20), and a week spent on that seems a little more justifiable.

When an MU chart really comes into the works then we'll have a good basis to go off doing stuff.

 

[ilysm]

Plus, developing metas takes quite a long time. The game only came out last month. Project M was released way back in 2011 and people are still going through the matchups one by one on the Ness boards over there, and PM has less characters by far than Smash 4. If any pressing matchup-related issue occurs and we're not on that character, it could go in the Gameplay General thread so it doesn't fall into obscurity. But for now, patience is key. We'll just deal with the characters we have the most issues with and work from there.

 

[Earthbound360]

Also patches will change things up over time

 

[Ranias]

Also patches will change things up over time

Probably by the time we finish reviewing the most common/difficult matchups, we will have to cover them again because of patches, lol.

 

[Earthbound360]

Then we're doing this all wrong. I say we start with Olimar, Zelda, and Dr. Mario.

 

[L9999]

Rosalina is definitely light enough t o be killed with an up throw, and her diagonal down aerial game is weak, so you can always try a follow up aerial if you approach at an angle to avoid her defensive dairs as she tries to fall.

Rosalina doesn't die from the top platform of 3DS Battlefield with Up-Throw until she is at 130%. Same with Jigglypuff and Game and Watch. The ceilings are way too high for Up Throw to kill. The only place Up Throw kills at low % is at Gaur Plains and that place is banned.

 

[Ranias]

Rosalina doesn't die from the top platform of 3DS Battlefield with Up-Throw until she is at 130%. Same with Jigglypuff and Game and Watch. The ceilings are way too high for Up Throw to kill. The only place Up Throw kills at low % is at Gaur Plains and that place is banned.

Yeah, I would use Up Throw against Rosalina sometimes though. It's pretty good for following up with juggling

 

[Noa.]

So a lot of this has been said by others but I'll just reiterate it. :V Repetition of important tactics and advice is good anyways.

Advantage

When we grab Rosalina: I'm not sure how reliable dthrow fair combos are in this matchup. Fair combos are typically harder to land on lighter characters and Rosalina is the fourth lightest character in the game. Fair combos either stop working very quickly or have to be frame perfect. In that case it's important to remember that you should be switching from dthrow to fthrow or uthrow more quickly in this matchup. I have personally not tried uthrow against Rosalina but the theory is sound so it sounds like a good option. Fthrow sets up for edge guards offstage and uthrow sets up for juggles. You should go for which ever situation you find more successful against Rosalina. That comes down to your preferences and the Rosalina that you're playing against. It' simportant to note that btrhow kills extremely early against Rosalina in this matchup. Here a combination of a bit of rage, being at the end of the stage, and halberd's low ceiling has Rosalina dying at 81%. Usually she won't die at such an early percent from bthrow but still the point is is that bthrow kills a lot earlier in this matchup and it's important not to forget that.

When juggling Rosalina: This is a very strong point in our matchup so it's important to take advantage of Rosalina when she's trying to land. Our three best options to juggle Rosalina is uair, pk thunder, and shield grab. When she's falling from the air you want to jump at Rosalina. Your two options are then to either double jump into an uair or pk thunder her. You need to jump up early to be able to double jump uair her. By jumping into the air to do pk thunder you're not telegraphing which option you're going for. Rosalina's dair only beats our uair if she commits to it early. So by jumping up you can bait the dair and then pk thunder her to punish. If Rosalina is trying to land onstage and she is not near any platforms, you can run up to her and shield. It's a free shield grab when she's landing. If she goes for an aerial you shield grab it cause it's mispaced. If she goes for an airdodge it's a shieldgrab because of airdodge landing lag. If she tries to land and grab you then you can grab her right before she lands. it's a very safe option to use to continue the juggle. You can also use usmash and utilt to juggle her as ground mixups cause why not.

When edge guarding Rosalina: If Rosalina recovers high it's very easy to punish her landing onstage. If she's recovering low it's very easy to punish her upb with either pk thunder or nair. If she recovers about level with the ledge it's more difficult to cover the possibility of her landing onstage or going to the ledge. You want to force Rosalina to recover low. Right before Rosalina is about to be level with the stage line you want to throw a pk thunder at her. If she tries to recover she'll run right into it. If she down bs then she is recovering low and you can edge guard with nair. If she tries to airdodge it, you can loop pk thunder around. When Rosalina is recovering low it's preferable to use nair to edgeguard. It does more damage than landing a pk thunder, and won' t send her straight up like pk thunder, so it'll allow for more opportunities to edgeguard her. Uair and bair are both also viable options to help edgeguard Rosalina if she's at kill percents, however they are harder to land compared to nair because they come out more slowly. When you're edgeguarding against Rosalina you cannot use pkt2 to get back to stage. It will usually spell automatic death. You can only rely on using your double jump to recover. You have to be really careful to use fastfall aerials against Rosalina when edgeguarding because if you whiff them she will be there to gimp you. Edgeguarding Rosalins is both difficult and risky. Her up b comes out pretty quickly and she can influence it's trajectory by a significant margin, so it's easy to miss her while she's recovering. And if you ever screw up and use pkt2 to recover you can just die. However it's very important to learn how to edgeguard Rosalina effectively. It's a very advantageous position for us and can wrack up a lot of free damage and even kill opportunities.

Landing PK Fire on Rosalina: When you land pk fire on Rosalina you have multiple options, as always. If Luma is still alive it might be worth it to just shoot another pk fire. Rosalina will be able to escape the second pk fire but Luma will die to the constant pk fires. You have to make the choice of whether getting a follow up on Rosalina or killing Luma is the better option. It depends on percents and such really. I would recommend that at low percents you go for the luma kill, while when Rosalina is at death percents you go for the option that could lead to a kill. Light and floaty characters tend to get out of pk fire pretty easily by jumping out of it. You can still punish this however. It leads to a frame trap. You can choose to do a rising fair which could combo into more fairs. Or you can nair or uair her. These options all depend on when the Rosalina is jumping out of the pk fire and which part of her body made contact with pk fire. When she jumps out of it most players tend to spam an airdodge. Make sure to wait and punish it. If the Rosalina is not jumping out of the pk fire then you can just grab her which leads back to the situation above. Players tend to always go for the same option when they're getting out of pk fire. Some players try to shield it. Some jump out of it. Some try to roll away from it. Always pay attention to which option players are using as a crutch.

Those are the most common and important situations in this matchup when we have the advantage that I can think of in the moment.

I'll post more later. :V

 

[Luco]

An interesting note to this actually is that PKT2 is normally considered the worst thing in the world; but usually people hold shield in order to punish PKT2. If Rosalina shields your PKT2, Luma will get hit and fly off-stage, meaning if Rosalina punishes you, you take about 12-15% but Luma is instantly gone. Saw it done in a set and the Ness won the match. Something to think about, thoush I suspect if the Rosalina rolls then it's probably useless haha.

 

[Noa.]

Disadvantage

Rosalina Juggling us: Now Rosalina is quite good at juggling and keeping characters from landing, with the combination of her dash attack, uair, usmash, and decent dash grab. There's nothing to unique or special about Rosalina's juggling though so what I'll say will apply to how to get out of most juggles as Ness. In general Ness isn't half bad at getting out of juggles. It's obviously a bad position for him, but he handles it a lot better than most characters. The biggest reason why is because of Ness's fantastic aerial acceleration. Ness can change direction in the air very very quickly.This is they key into getting out of juggles as Ness. It's very easy to fake out any ground punishes when we're falling from high above in the air. When you're falling just hold in one direction and about a full hop distance above the ground just slam the control stick in the opposite direction. By this time the opponent has usually had to commit to dashing to your original location to punish you with a dash attack or dash grab. This only works if you're forcing them to dash to punish you, so it requires you to travel a far distance and to b traveling at max air speed. If your opponent is able to walk to punish your landing, then it'll be easy for them to change directions and punish you when you try to fake them out. Force them do dash to punish your landing. Now Ness is not as good when it comes to avoiding uair juggles. Our dair sucks ass and is basically unusable. The best tool we have for getting out of air juggles is airdodge obviously. After you airdodge though is when you have multiple options. Nair, uair, bair, and another airdodge are the best options we have if we successfully airdodge through an opponent's aerial. If we dodge them and they end up high above us, use your double jump and uair them. If you airdodge right into their body you should just try to spam nair. The best options really depends on spacing and timing. I will say that it is very hard to escape from Rosalina's uair. She can spam it pretty well so the timing is very tight to get through her juggling. I suggest always going for airdodge nair or double airdodge to get out of her juggle.

Rosalina edgeguarding us: So this is the most dangerous part of the matchup for us. Any strong **** up on our part and we die very easily at any percent.in terms of offstage tools, she's not too potent at edgeguarding us actually. Her bair and nair are her best tools and both can be telegraphed by the kind of positioning she's taking. Nair has quite a bit of startup time but bair comes out somewhat fast, so be careful with that. The most important thing when it comes to recovering against Rosalina is to take care of your precious double jump. You should only use it when you know it's gonna lead you to a place of safely. Using double jump too early is dangerous. If you get hit during your double jump or after you use your double jump, your chances of dying to a gravitational pull gimp increase dramatically. Use your double jump to recover straight to the ledge. Once your on the ledge though it is quite difficult to get back on stage against Rosalina. Her disjointed hitboxes with luma and on her smash attacks means that we cannot rely on just using a double jump fair to get back onto stage safely. This is where the real danger comes in. If you get knocked back offstage without a double jump while trying to get back onstage from the ledge, you will die. You just have to be very creative and careful choosing your ledge options against her. In the case that you need to use pk thunder to get back onto the stage, there are some general tips that you should follow to lessen the probability of the gravitational pull gimp. If you can, use pk thunder before Rosalina starts using gravitational pull. When she uses gravitational pull the pk thunder becomes a hitbox that can hit us. The hitbox for the pk thnder seems to either be larger or lasts longer when she uses gravitational pull after the pk thunder is already out. When she uses it the pk thunder warps around her in a circle. You want to use pk thunder roughly in the range of that circle to increase the likelihood of you getting hit by it. Make sure that you're not too close or too far from the Rosalina. By using the timing of your pk thunder and your spacing against Rosalina correctly, you can prevent yourself from being gimped by Rosalina when she uses gravitational Pull. Here is an example of hit happening.

Those are the most important situations where we are in the disadvantaged state against Rosalina. I'll make another post later with just general tips and things to watch out for against her I suppose.

 

[Luco]

Agreed, and i'm not sure whether it's good on PS but I seem to find retreating Bair works even better than retreating Fair if you're trying to land, they don't seem to be able to punish it with a grab. So that's an option, afaik.

 

[Pazx]

Are we doing Rosa for a week? Will give input either on Thursday or Sat/Sun depending on when I get more matchup experience (if this is still going).

What's the consensus on stages against Rosalina? Top 3 starters? Worst starters? How do platforms benefit Rosa in comparison to us? Top 3 counter-picks? Which 2 stages should I ban? Sorry for the plethora of questions but I have limited Rosie experience and I'm confident I'll meet one particularly good one in tournament on the weekend.

I'm personally liking Halberd and KJ64 as they have either low ceilings or high platforms and the terrain makes it easier to hit (Luma?) with PKF, however I'm considering Castle Siege as the walkoffs will stop me getting gimped quite as often. Possibly Delfino too, for the same recovery purpose? I have no clue when it comes to starters, I'm going to strike Lylat first and that's all I know. Are the ducks on Duck Hunt a massive problem for us?

Sample stage list:

Spoiler

Stagelist:

Starter

-Battlefield
-Duck Hunt
-Lylat Cruise
-Smashville
-Final Destination/Omega Palutena's Temple (specifically)

Counterpick

-Castle Siege
-Delfino Plaza
-Halberd
-Kongo Jungle 64
-Pilot Wings
-Skyloft
-Town and City

 

[PSIBoy]

Well, it's been a while since something happened on this thread. Apparently this matchup has largely been so beaten to death that there is little left to say. Can we move onto the next one please, so this thread can be revived?

 

[Earthbound360]

Before we do that, should we ask Rosalina players what their opinions on this match are? I know this has lead to... comical results in the past, but I can't help but feel that it can be useful to get outside input. Not just for this matchup but any.

 

[Ranias]

Not sure where to bring it up to them though, lol.

 

[Earthbound360]

I've seen people just go to the other character board and say "Hey we're discussing this matchup over at the Ness boards, feel free to add your thoughts! Oh, and Ness players are cooler, smarter, and a million times more handsome than Rosalina players."

 

[PSIBoy]

I've seen people just go to the other character board and say "Hey we're discussing this matchup over at the Ness boards, feel free to add your thoughts! Oh, and Ness players are cooler, smarter, and a million times more handsome than Rosalina players."

...I would omit the last part, but I guess that would work. I'll go over and ask now, I guess.

 

[Earthbound360]

The last part is the most important part

 

[PSIBoy]

The last part is the most important part

I'm still not gonna say it. No matter how much you pester me. Even if you stick Giygas on me I will not yield.

Okay, just asked. Hopefully one or two players at least will brave the dangers to come over here.

 

[Yink]

Sorry guys. I have been on vacation for awhile. This was some really good Rosa discussion, so I think it's safe to say we're done. Now we'll go through the same process for picking the next character (by vote). I'll do a write-up of all our main thoughts on the discussion thus far for Rosa and post it when I return on Friday.

For now, please send me a PM with who you think we should discuss next. That way the thread won't get overly cluttered. Give the top character you wish to talk about (EXCEPT for Rosalina/Luma).

Thank you!

 

[Noa.]

In the OP you should link to the first post if the Rosalina discussion so that we can easily find it and read it whenever we want.

And are we going to talk about where that matchup falls? What system would we use? Ratios? -1 +1?

 

[neomadgic]

Great points all around! And I have nothing to add that haven't been said before.

I'm gonna say this matchup is 45/55 in Rosa's favor.

 

[Noa.]

I think its 40:60 or 45:55. I think either ratio works but I'm leaning towards 40:60 myself.

 

[Yink]

In the OP you should link to the first post if the Rosalina discussion so that we can easily find it and read it whenever we want.

And are we going to talk about where that matchup falls? What system would we use? Ratios? -1 +1?

Was already planning on linking it (I think I mentioned it briefly). Ratios are listed on the OP, but I can go with the 100 way if you guys feel like it's more reasonable.

 

[Noa.]

Oh sorry I didn't see. In that case either a -1 or -2. I prefer these numbers anyways. Again, leaning towards -2.

 

[R e d X]

Feels like a solid -2 to me, though to be fair I haven't played any of the really top Ness/Rosa players as the respective character. Played a good amount of fairly solid players though, and personally I can't see any better than -2

 

[Luco]

I'd be fine with calling it a -2.

Next character i'd like to discuss is... well, diddy. Hehe.

 

[Earthbound360]

I'd call it the smallest disadvantage possible, 45:55 or whatever matchups are called these days lol.

 

[Luco]

You think so? Like, personally I see it as somewhere around 60:40 which is usually around the -2 area (or is that 65:35 that's -2?)... well it could be -1 or -2 imo.

 

[Earthbound360]

From what I understand, 45:55 = -1 = slight disadvantage.

Even from just reading what you guys posted I was assuming you deemed it a "slight disadvantage" too actually.