Ness should be banned

[CarVac]

PK Fire is not something to do when recovering, I find. You fall much too much.

 

[kennypu]

PK Fire is not something to do when recovering, I find. You fall much too much.

very true. if you're going to do it for recovery, only do it if you're for sure you'll hit and if you're quite high. or else you'll just put your self in a worst situation.

 

[Xebenkeck]

^^ only use it when your sent to the top corners, as your floating down and someone jumps to you is the time to use it, i didn't really clearify that before. if you use level with the stage your obviously going to die. unless you still have your double jump.

 

[MrEh]

Honestly, who cares what went down that set?

It's Ness. Who cares about him? lol

 

[Eagleye893]

If you still have your dj, then double jump a pkfire to create a wall. NOT PK JUMP! Just a regular double jumped pk fire while keeping your distance or moving away. That's a fairly good way to use it with your recovery, but I'd stick to aerials cause your enemy wants to gimp you.

@ mreh: ness mains care! It shows we are capable of beating all high tiers.

 

[MrEh]

Everyone's capable of beating high tiers.

 

[Eagleye893]

Everyone's capable of beating high tiers.

Ok, we are way more easily capable of beating high tiers than most other characters... And really good high tier players on that.

 

[MrEh]

Ok, we are way more easily capable of beating high tiers than most other characters... And really good high tier players on that.

Tiers don't matter when Mewtwo just beats everyone.

trufax

 

[SuSa]

Yeah, let's not forget Apex, where M2K lost one set to a Snake player. Big ****ing whoop, right? People went crazy with that one, but we shouldn't be happy that a low-tier beat a name like Tyrant? I'm not sure what to make out of that one, lain.

I know that tiers aren't equivalent to match-ups. I don't know who said that they were. You probably should pay attention to what I say, rather than getting frustrated and reading what's not there. All I was doing was replying to lain, because lain thought it was strange that people will go crazy over a Ness main beating Tyrant in one set, and yet everyone went bat**** when Ally beat M2K with Snake. Snake's a top-tier, just like Meta Knight. "Big ****ing whoop," right? Ness is a low-tier with the match-up being 40:60. I doubt that's the same for Snake. Yay for Ness!

I commented about the bolded, red part. It wasn't so much that Snake beat MK it was that Ally beat M2K, a match many people were waiting for for a very long time. IIRC we waited 2-3 months for that set.

Snake goes 45:55 with MK. To be honest 5 BSP (bull **** points) away from 40:60 isn't that big. How big is 5% afterall? Yes, it's a little more even. But we didn't go crazy because Snake beat MK, we went crazy because Ally beat M2K in a match we waited a long time for.

You keep bringing up "Ness is a low-tier" I don't give a **** what tier Ness is. So stop rephrasing it over and over. It's of little significance because we are talking about Ness vs MK, a 40:60 matchup (so I've been told/people have been saying)

If this were Ganon vs MK (20:80 - maybe worse) then that'd be fan****ingtastic if a Ganon beat a pro MK. But it's not a 20:80, it's a 40:60.

Still good ****, but god**** this is getting annoying.

/stops taking funny thread seriously

Tyrant should've gone Marth. LOLOLOLOL

.

 

[Zephil]

I don´t know if you did the same when I saw that match but I went to youtube to find videos of this FOW and guess what... this is not a surprise, THIS KID HAS BEEN ROCKING WITH NESS ALMOST SINCE BRAWL WAS RELEASED... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfvoAHGT4sQ

after watching this I am less surprised that he defeated Tyrant... he is such a solid player only that nobody knew he existed (except SK92 which btw, nice find!!)

I think we need to see Tyrant´s opinion that this whole topic is about him and FOW so somebody call him!

PS: lol I have never seen a topic of just 9 pages with so many moderators and important ppl like ally and lain so this seems to be pretty important

 

[CometStar]

Lawl @ banning a low tier character. This thought amuses me greatly, even if it is a joke.

 

[Uffe]

I don´t know if you did the same when I saw that match but I went to youtube to find videos of this FOW and guess what... this is not a surprise, THIS KID HAS BEEN ROCKING WITH NESS ALMOST SINCE BRAWL WAS RELEASED... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfvoAHGT4sQ

after watching this I am less surprised that he defeated Tyrant... he is such a solid player only that nobody knew he existed (except SK92 which btw, nice find!!)

I think we need to see Tyrant´s opinion that this whole topic is about him and FOW so somebody call him!

PS: lol I have never seen a topic of just 9 pages at least when I saw with so many moderators and important ppl like ally and lain so this seems to be pretty important

Yeah, took people long enough to realize this, hasn't it? Also, FOW does have a SmashBoards account. Not that I'm aware of anyway.

 

[BarDulL]

i recently talked to tyrant. tyrant says fow is good for a ness player, but he was really mad about losing to m2k in winners (he should have won the set, but m2k made a startling comeback and clinched game 2&3) so he was pretty mad about it and had mad johns vs. fow.

he has never played a ness in his life, and being that the current metagame is vs. MK, it isn't surprising that he should lose...

i'm pretty sure he underestimated fow as well, and was taking him lightly.

whatever, in my honest opinion i think it was poor match up experience on tyrant's behalf, but i don't think anyone is seriously contending that ness has the potential to beat MK, so...basically, i wouldn't expect a repeat.

sorry to kill the hype.

 

[kennypu]

I don´t know if you did the same when I saw that match but I went to youtube to find videos of this FOW and guess what... this is not a surprise, THIS KID HAS BEEN ROCKING WITH NESS ALMOST SINCE BRAWL WAS RELEASED... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfvoAHGT4sQ

after watching this I am less surprised that he defeated Tyrant... he is such a solid player only that nobody knew he existed (except SK92 which btw, nice find!!)

I think we need to see Tyrant´s opinion that this whole topic is about him and FOW so somebody call him!

PS: lol I have never seen a topic of just 9 pages with so many moderators and important ppl like ally and lain so this seems to be pretty important

interesting. nice to see a ness and lucario actually winning. just to clarify though that doesn't really show how good he is. his opponents weren't very good at all (especially the MK). But I'm quite sure FOW is a beast now.

 

[Eagleye893]

yeah... how is this topic so long?!?
I didn't really know about FOW until a while ago because i only joined this stuff a couple of months recently, but from what i've seen he's pretty good.... really good.

@uffe: does FOW or doesn't he, cause your statement afterwards makes me think you contradicted yourself. he has an AiB account, I know that.

 

[Albert.]

i recently talked to tyrant. tyrant says fow is good for a ness player, but he was really mad about losing to m2k in winners (he should have won the set, but m2k made a startling comeback and clinched game 2&3) so he was pretty mad about it and had mad johns vs. fow.

he has never played a ness in his life, and being that the current metagame is vs. MK, it isn't surprising that he should lose...

i'm pretty sure he underestimated fow as well, and was taking him lightly.

whatever, in my honest opinion i think it was poor match up experience on tyrant's behalf, but i don't think anyone is seriously contending that ness has the potential to beat MK, so...basically, i wouldn't expect a repeat.

sorry to kill the hype.

Edressess (SP) said that Tyrant has played his Ness before, and possibly ViceGrip.

 

[Uffe]

i recently talked to tyrant. tyrant says fow is good for a ness player, but he was really mad about losing to m2k in winners (he should have won the set, but m2k made a startling comeback and clinched game 2&3) so he was pretty mad about it and had mad johns vs. fow.

he has never played a ness in his life, and being that the current metagame is vs. MK, it isn't surprising that he should lose...

i'm pretty sure he underestimated fow as well, and was taking him lightly.

whatever, in my honest opinion i think it was poor match up experience on tyrant's behalf, but i don't think anyone is seriously contending that ness has the potential to beat MK, so...basically, i wouldn't expect a repeat.

sorry to kill the hype.

I fear that you may be right. Assuming you're talking about Tyrant in your third sentence, never playing a Ness, what about DSF or M2K? FOW did beat DSF in crews, both three stocks and he did beat M2K in a friendlies. I know, it's a friendlies, but apparently M2K said he doesn't sandbag, so again, what about both of them? Either way, you never really know.

I mean look at Wario. I know he has a better recovery than Ness, so let's just get that part out of the way. Does Wario's attacks outprioritized Meta Knight's or what? According to the Meta Knight boards and Wario boards, these two are a 50:50 match up. So the match up may possibly change. After all, FOW fought three of the best Meta Knight's out there and that has to say something.

@uffe: does FOW or doesn't he, cause your statement afterwards makes me think you contradicted yourself. he has an AiB account, I know that.

What are you talking about? If you're asking if he has an account here, then most likely not.

 

[BarDulL]

oops, i didn't refresh so i didn't see all the new posts...one moment

 

[SuSa]

BarDulL, thanks for coming in here with Tyrant's opinion and basically johning for the johns I johned for him. LOL

Also didn't M2K like... adapt and beat FOW in tourney? Yah, he lost in friendlies but he came back in tournament by adapting.

FOW is still legit though. I didn't know about beating DSF in crews. That kid just eats MK for breakfast, don't he?

 

[Uffe]

BarDulL, thanks for coming in here with Tyrant's opinion and basically johning for the johns I johned for him. LOL

Also didn't M2K like... adapt and beat FOW in tourney? Yah, he lost in friendlies but he came back in tournament by adapting.

FOW is still legit though. I didn't know about beating DSF in crews. That kid just eats MK for breakfast, don't he?

Actually he beat FOW off livestream and later on people in the chat were wanting FOW to play M2K and so they did and FOW won but then told people he was done because he was hella tired. As for DSF vs FOW, it did happen and that was pretty **** epic. They called him the "Anti-Meta Knight" before that match even started and he pretty much lived up to it. The next match FOW went up against MikeHAZE, had to get rid of two of his stocks, unfortunately. I mean FOW was on Haze's Marth like white on rice!

He was doing pretty good, but then he fell off the edge while using PK Thunder. He told me that he thought the stage was below him. He did pretty good and got 4th place out of I'm sure a pretty big tournament.

 

[BarDulL]

being that ness is widely considered as "not viable" for competitive play, it's really rare to come across a ness player of high caliber who can stand his ground against the average MK.

this being the case, it's pretty safe to say that dsf/m2k also had little to no experience against *NESS*. i can personally attest for dsf because i've NEVER seen him play a good ness player...i'm not entirely sure if he's played edreese's/vicegrip's ness, but he probably hasn't played them enough to really know the match up anyway.

BarDulL, thanks for coming in here with Tyrant's opinion and basically johning for the johns I johned for him. LOL

Also didn't M2K like... adapt and beat FOW in tourney? Yah, he lost in friendlies but he came back in tournament by adapting.

FOW is still legit though. I didn't know about beating DSF in crews. That kid just eats MK for breakfast, don't he?

i never actually read this thread, so i'm sorry for any wrong doing i have done to your johns for tyrant. lol

unfortunately i don't know all the details regarding SIN, but from what i've heard he managed to beat m2k a couple times in friendlies...not sure about in tournament, though.

 

[SuSa]

being that ness is widely considered as "not viable" for competitive play, it's really rare to come across a ness player of high caliber who can stand his ground against the average MK.

this being the case, it's pretty safe to say that dsf/m2k also had little to no experience against *NESS*. i can personally attest for dsf because i've NEVER seen him play a good ness player...i'm not entirely sure if he's played edreese's/vicegrip's ness, but he probably hasn't played them enough to really know the match up anyway.



i never actually read this thread, so i'm sorry for any wrong doing i have done to your johns for tyrant. lol

unfortunately i don't know all the details regarding SIN, but from what i've heard he managed to beat m2k a couple times in friendlies...not sure about in tournament, though.

You did no wrong. You proved me correct. Read the thread, I even stated Tyrant probably has little to no Ness experience.

 

[da K.I.D.]

if tyrant doesnt know his matchups hes a crappy player,

good players know their matchups.

ALL of them

 

[ssbbFICTION]

if tyrant doesnt know his matchups hes a crappy player,

good players know their matchups.

ALL of them

Nice generalization there buddy.

 

[da K.I.D.]

i thought so....

 

[BarDulL]

if tyrant doesnt know his matchups hes a crappy player,

good players know their matchups.

ALL of them

there are so many problems with this logic that i don't know where to start.

 

[SuSa]

"Nobody plays _____ character at a high level of play. There is no one to get matchup experience with. Ohsh--"

Stupid generalization is stupid. You can't have great matchup experience against characters that are rarely seen in the highest levels of play. How many Yoshi's do you see winning large tournaments? How many people do you think have a lot of Yoshi experience?

 

[BarDulL]

"Nobody plays _____ character at a high level of play. There is no one to get matchup experience with. Ohsh--"

Stupid generalization is stupid. You can't have great matchup experience against characters that are rarely seen in the highest levels of play. How many Yoshi's do you see winning large tournaments? How many people do you think have a lot of Yoshi experience?

basically this. contending that tyrant is a bad player based off his lack of match up experience with ness is quite possibly the silliest thing i've ever read. i'm submitting it to guinness as i'm writing this message.

 

[SuSa]

According to Ankoku's thread I shouldn't have used Yoshi for my example.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954

Yoshi gets more rep then Ness........

 

[da K.I.D.]

Im sorry, youre right

If I lost to a 13 year old, low tier mainer, id john too

 

[SuSa]

*face palms*

1) Age above a certain limit has less and less to do with gaming ability. (Yes, a 6 year old shouldn't be beating a 10 year old. But I say after 12, a person has enough ability to think and play on a competitive level. However they still probably aren't mature enough to completely accept defeat. However depending on their personality not accepting defeat could help them become a better player because they are driven to improve)

2) Low tier has nothing to do with this matchup. Get that through your skull.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[SuSa]

Because IIRC none of that is guaranteed. <_<

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[Kitamerby]

I commented about the bolded, red part. It wasn't so much that Snake beat MK it was that Ally beat M2K, a match many people were waiting for for a very long time. IIRC we waited 2-3 months for that set.

Snake goes 45:55 with MK. To be honest 5 BSP (bull **** points) away from 40:60 isn't that big. How big is 5% afterall? Yes, it's a little more even. But we didn't go crazy because Snake beat MK, we went crazy because Ally beat M2K in a match we waited a long time for.


You keep bringing up "Ness is a low-tier" I don't give a **** what tier Ness is. So stop rephrasing it over and over. It's of little significance because we are talking about Ness vs MK, a 40:60 matchup (so I've been told/people have been saying)

If this were Ganon vs MK (20:80 - maybe worse) then that'd be fan****ingtastic if a Ganon beat a pro MK. But it's not a 20:80, it's a 40:60.

Still good ****, but god**** this is getting annoying.

/stops taking funny thread seriously

Tyrant should've gone Marth. LOLOLOLOL

.

<<

FOW also beat BoA's Marth in tournament, and iirc he fought MikeHaze. I forgot how that turned out, but I seem to remember him suiciding at like 0% because he thought he was above the stage...

Also yes, BoA did attempt the cg. Yes, most of his kills were grabs to dsmash tippers, and yes, FOW still won. <<

i recently talked to tyrant. tyrant says fow is good for a ness player, but he was really mad about losing to m2k in winners (he should have won the set, but m2k made a startling comeback and clinched game 2&3) so he was pretty mad about it and had mad johns vs. fow.

he has never played a ness in his life, and being that the current metagame is vs. MK, it isn't surprising that he should lose...

i'm pretty sure he underestimated fow as well, and was taking him lightly.

whatever, in my honest opinion i think it was poor match up experience on tyrant's behalf, but i don't think anyone is seriously contending that ness has the potential to beat MK, so...basically, i wouldn't expect a repeat.

sorry to kill the hype.

Honestly, I heard the same thing from m2k during the match about Tyrant being "off" for that match. Heck, I could even understand how mad he was as well as seeing how inexperienced he was in the matchup at some points (such as when he chased Ness offstage on Delphino and got hit by a rising dair at around 26% for a game-winning comeback.)

I believe m2k also said he didn't want to be on the livestream because he was feeling "off."

On a side note, none of that really matters though because Smashers like blowing things out of proportion and love unnecessary hype.
WOO YEAH! NESS BEAT MK AND MARF! BREAK OUT THE BEER, FELLAS. WE'RE GOIN' TO TOWN.

interesting. nice to see a ness and lucario actually winning. just to clarify though that doesn't really show how good he is. his opponents weren't very good at all (especially the MK). But I'm quite sure FOW is a beast now.

...*watches video*


...*cries*

We randomly teamed way back when because neither of us had a partner.

I think it was both of our first team matches. You could tell how nervous I was due to all the roll/fsmash spam.

Honestly, the only reason we even won was because SK92 probably didn't even know what the hell a Ness was.

MK has a 10 frame advantage out of ground grab release on Ness, enough time for a walking grab (6 frames), dash grab (8 frames), dtilt (3 frames), ftilt (3 frames), dsmash (5 frames), usmash (7 frames), dash attack (5 frames), shuttle loop (8 frames), nair (3 + 4 jump frames), fair (6 + 4 jump frames), dair (4 + 4 jump frames).

However, Ness can escape all of this through an air release if Ness manages to force one.

I don't believe all of that works at all. For starters, I don't believe the walking grab works, as one has to get within grab range within 4 frames for it to connect, same with most of the other moves, and even with buffering, it should be extremely hard if not impossible to land all but the dsmash/dtilt/ftilt due to range issues.

 

[Uffe]

If I recall correctly, DSF did pull off a few grab releases, but FOW ended up getting away from it. Also, can't we just have our little hype? I mean geez, how often do you see this? Let it be. Let us be happy for a fellow Ness main.

 

[Masky]

..........

 

[FzeroX]

FOW got beat by m2k 2-1 in tournament. Each match was extremely close. As in ness could have bthrowed and won or mk just dsmashed and won. FOW took m2k to his last stock, being down 1 stock during the vegas vs socal crew battle and almost won it for vegas, and fow did beat m2k in multiple friendlies. I will try and get these matches from thehebrewhammers laptop.

 

[lain]

i recently talked to tyrant. tyrant says fow is good for a ness player, but he was really mad about losing to m2k in winners (he should have won the set, but m2k made a startling comeback and clinched game 2&3) so he was pretty mad about it and had mad johns vs. fow.

he has never played a ness in his life, and being that the current metagame is vs. MK, it isn't surprising that he should lose...

i'm pretty sure he underestimated fow as well, and was taking him lightly.

whatever, in my honest opinion i think it was poor match up experience on tyrant's behalf, but i don't think anyone is seriously contending that ness has the potential to beat MK, so...basically, i wouldn't expect a repeat.

sorry to kill the hype.

What this man says.

 

[Coffee™]

Walking grab may possibly not work because, but I don't see why an immediate dash grab wouldn't. Normally I'd just test it on my Wii but I don't have a TV where I'm living atm. :/

I tested this with Shaky a while ago. It works 100% unless Ness manages to air break. It actually works with alot of characters with large grab ranges like Snake and DDD.