Ness vs. Lucas

[NESsimmen]

This is the thread for debating who is more useful.

(I'm siding with Ness.)

HAH! For all you who think Ness is useless, think again. If you repeatedly press >B, Ness's PK fire will trap the inflicted player, causing high damage. This trick is not usable for lucas, however, because his PK fire is more of a wave attack, and Lucas is pushed back every time he uses it. Ness's PK Pulse (or PK Flash, it's debated which one of these is correct) also is more effective than PK freeze.

More posts once the debating starts.

 

[YumClock]

Is it surprising that this is his first post?

 

[Cacti]

It's PK Flash. Go play Earthbound, nao.

I think I'm going to wait until other people post to say something...

 

[Levitas]

Welcome to smashboards ^_^

at some point about 6 months ago, the consensus was that it was slightly in ness's favor.

I promise that PK fire > PK fire doesn't work except against people who don't know to smash the analog stick out and jump ASAP to escape. Even if they don't, it won't work at high percents.

It is indeed PK flash.

I can't really tell if he's trolling or not =/

 

[CarVac]

I personally find Ness more useful because I can beat people with him, whereas I can't with Lucas.

That's really all that matters: your personal skills with each.

 

[Meccs]

I find Ness to be better 1v1, but Lucas better in Team Battle/anything else with >2 people. I like Ness' aerial playstyle and moveset more, though, so I main Ness.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

This should just be locked.

 

[Ref]

U>S=S=S>N>L>E>C>A

Umm this means something I just can't find out what right now....

 

[Curlz]

I don't think this should be locked. This is a very reasonable thread.

I main both and I think that it depends more if you attack on the ground or in the air more. Lucas has a better ground moveset but a poor air moveset while as Ness has a better air movest and a poor ground moveset.

 

[Levitas]

This should just be locked.

ah, you're just saying that because we used to discuss this to death and it was a source of mutual frustration among the denizens of each respective board.

let it live unless people get dumb about the topic again.

 

[Uffe]

People need to realize that Ness' ground based attacks are worth using. It's not like if you fight on the ground only that you're going to automatically lose the match. Same applies for Lucas' aerials. As for who is the better character in Brawl, I'd say Ness and that's not because I main him. Supposively Lucas is supposed to be the better one, though.

Lucas

1. PK Fire goes straight forward
2. PK Thunder has knock back and goes through opponents
3. PK Freeze is quicker than PK Flash
4. Has multi-recovery options
5. In takes more health with his PSI Magnet
6. Can do harm with his PSI Magnet
7. Bair can spike
8. Has better KO potential than Ness, some slower than others (I could be wrong)

I'm not sure how much more there is, but that's pretty much what he's got. Now what about Ness?

Ness

1. PK Fire traps opponents (Don't argue with me about it, I don't care)
2. PK Thunder can juggle and is quicker
3. PK Flash is slow but is a better set up for edge guarding and can KO early on
4. Has one recovery option, but not impossible to return either way
5. Takes in lesser health than Lucas' PSI Magnet
6. Pushes away enemies as well as good for stalling and can lag cancel if absorbing projectile with his PSI Magnet (I'm not sure if Lucas' can do that)
7. Bair can be used from the front or behind Ness, sweet spotted
8. Has about eleven KO attacks? (I can't think of anything else)

Though Lucas' does look far more superior, if not even with Ness, Ness is still somehow the better one, believe it or not. Like I said, Lucas is supposed to be the better one, I'm sure. I'm positive that that's what Nintendo was trying to do. Also, we don't suffer as many grab releases and we probably have better match ups than Lucas.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

U>S=S=S>N>L>E>C>A

Umm this means something I just can't find out what right now....

Does that spell Lucas > Ness, Ness = Lucas, or Ness > Lucas?
You've become cryptic as of late.

 

[Eagleye893]

People need to realize that Ness' ground based attacks are worth using. It's not like if you fight on the ground only that you're going to automatically lose the match. Same applies for Lucas' aerials. As for who is the better character in Brawl, I'd say Ness and that's not because I main him. Supposively Lucas is supposed to be the better one, though.

Lucas

1. PK Fire goes straight forward
2. PK Thunder has knock back and goes through opponents
3. PK Freeze is quicker than PK Flash
4. Has multi-recovery options
5. In takes more health with his PSI Magnet
6. Can do harm with his PSI Magnet
7. Bair can spike
8. Has better KO potential than Ness, some slower than others (I could be wrong)

I'm not sure how much more there is, but that's pretty much what he's got. Now what about Ness?

Ness

1. PK Fire traps opponents (Don't argue with me about it, I don't care)
2. PK Thunder can juggle and is quicker
3. PK Flash is slow but is a better set up for edge guarding and can KO early on
4. Has one recovery option, but not impossible to return either way
5. Takes in lesser health than Lucas' PSI Magnet
6. Pushes away enemies as well as good for stalling and can lag cancel if absorbing projectile with his PSI Magnet (I'm not sure if Lucas' can do that)
7. Bair can be used from the front or behind Ness, sweet spotted
8. Has about eleven KO attacks? (I can't think of anything else)

Though Lucas' does look far more superior, if not even with Ness, Ness is still somehow the better one, believe it or not. Like I said, Lucas is supposed to be the better one, I'm sure. I'm positive that that's what Nintendo was trying to do. Also, we don't suffer as many grab releases and we probably have better match ups than Lucas.

for ness, yoyos have hitbox when charging, dtilt is slightly quicker (although less damage),
for lucas, u/dsmash can't be spotdodged easily or else you get hit anyways, some attacks come out quicker, but others are terribly slow

trust me, grab releases are bad for both of them no matter what anyone says. I played ally in a low tier tourney on saturday, in which he used falcon. he constantly grab release>kneed me, and there was nothing i could do to escape it! I brought him down to one stock on each match, but because i couldn't really do anything to escape his jabs before he grabbed me, i was dead... I need to learn to SDI better.

U>S=S=S>N>L>E>C>A

Umm this means something I just can't find out what right now....

Does that spell Lucas > Ness, Ness = Lucas, or Ness > Lucas?
You've become cryptic as of late.

I'll try and make sense of this insanity, but i might end up confusing everyone.
LETS SET ALL THE LETTERS EQUAL TO WHERE THEY APPEAR IN THE ALPHABET

U = 21
S = 19
N = 14
L = 12
E = 5
C = 3
A = 1

now assuming that by spelling the name it would end up being (N)(E)(S)(S), then...
NESS = 19^2(14)(5) = 70*361 = 25270
LUCAS = LUCS = 399*36 = 14400-36 = 14364

therefore NESS > LUCAS

(I did all that math w/o a calculator, because i don't like making myself more stupid by turning off my brain for summer AND I HATE CALCULATORS!!!)

PS: i tried posting this a long time ago, but for some reason i couldn't go onto SWF and i'll just post it now from when i copied it earlier.

 

[PMKNG]

cool story guiz

 

[TRAMD]

Ness' PKT2 is one of the strongest KO moves in the game with HUGE knockback in the first half of the motion and decent knockback during the second half. Depending on stage and location I regularly KO light characters with the first half of PKT2 in the 30's and heavy ones in the 40's-50's. It also does in the mid 20's for damage. You DO NOT want to be next to Ness and unshielded when he hits himself with that PKT. Lucas' has the potential to be the single most damaging move in the game, dealing 43% undiminished if all hits connect. The final hit of it also has decent knockback but nothing like Ness'.

I like Ness way more but do feel that Lucas is probably better. I like Ness' PKT2 and PK flash more due to high KO potential and better mindgames but they are probably not practically better than Lucas'. Ness' throws and aerials are better but only marginally so. I would say Lucas has better tilts that are all quite useful. Up and down smashes are very different for both and although Lucas' are more punishable they both have awesome KO potential so I say that gives him a slight edge there. They have the same grab-release problems. That leaves us with the two unanswered advantages that Lucas has over Ness: His PK thunder (but I would keep Ness' PKT2) that doesn't go away when it hits someone and definitely his Fsmash. Ness' Fsmash does more damage and has a slightly larger range but the speed and knockback of Lucas' stick actually make it a viable move, unlike Ness' bat in most situations.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Ness has the strongest up-b and b-throw in the game. And maybe neutral B as well. Unless Ike's is stronger, or if you count Roy in Brawl+.

 

[Uffe]

I believe a charged PK Flash does 39%. Yeah, it says otherwise usually, but I think it's 39% at its fullest. If you could check Ike's, that'd be great. I'd do it myself, but I'm unable to. As for Ness' PKT2, it can kill around 30-40%, depending on which character it is. It usually kills somewhere in between those two numbers. I had the Wii working last night and I did kill my opponent with Ness' d-smash and the night before I killed my brother with Ness' u-smash. So those are obviously kill moves.

 

[Ref]

I'll try and make sense of this insanity, but i might end up confusing everyone.
LETS SET ALL THE LETTERS EQUAL TO WHERE THEY APPEAR IN THE ALPHABET

U = 21
S = 19
N = 14
L = 12
E = 5
C = 3
A = 1

now assuming that by spelling the name it would end up being (N)(E)(S)(S), then...
NESS = 19^2(14)(5) = 70*361 = 25270
LUCAS = LUCS = 399*36 = 14400-36 = 14364

therefore NESS > LUCAS

(I did all that math w/o a calculator, because i don't like making myself more stupid by turning off my brain for summer AND I HATE CALCULATORS!!!)

PS: i tried posting this a long time ago, but for some reason i couldn't go onto SWF and i'll just post it now from when i copied it earlier.

This man is genius...

 

[Eagleye893]

This man is genius...

thank you! I can mathematically prove that NESS > LUCAS .... now time to test this out with all the other characters.

most likely Zero Suit Samus is going to have the highest value, but how will names be put into this stuff? fully stated (with Snake being Solid Snake, or Sonic being Sonic the hedgehog)? with abbreviation (ZSS, Ness, MK, DDD, Snake, DK, etc)? as said in the game?

EDIT: I didn't notice this before, but Ness is definitely OVER 9000 greater lucas...

EDIT 2: @ Uffe: Zero Suit Samus has 13 letters but 12 because A doesn't mean anything, Pikmin and Olimar has 15 but 13 because the 2 A's don't mean anything either. I would still go with ZSS being a higher value though, because it has more letters near the end of the alphabet than does Pikmin and Olimar, but I might actually have to follow up on this joke and make a thread somewhere.

Edit3: if mr. Is spelled with just mr., then zss may probably still win.... I need to make a thread of this.

 

[Uffe]

If you were going with actual names instead of how the game names the characters, then Pikmin & Olimar would probably be the highest one.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Mr. Game and Watch

 

[Uffe]

I didn't see that one. That tricky fool.

EDIT: Bastard is censored? Really?

 

[Cacti]

You guys are doing it all wrong! You've gotta use the Scrabble points values.

 

[Eagleye893]

You guys are doing it all wrong! You've gotta use the Scrabble points values.

That wouldn't work, because ref made the original post to inspire this insanity like "U>S=S=S>N>L>E>C>A"

in scrabble, E and A are the same value, which doesn't fit the inequality.

But good idea! I might end up doing that one too.
PLEASE ASK ME, ANYONE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO USE THIS SCALE (spelling of name with values assigned to letters based on where they appear in the alphabet) TO MAKE A THREAD RATING CHARACTERS... Also tell me if someone else did this before, because I don't want to come off as plagiarizing when I just randomly thought about it for two seconds.

 

[Dajayman]

Wtf has this thread turned into?!

 

[Uffe]

^^^ Our alphabets and Scrabble.

 

[Levitas]

We should play online rock paper scissors to figure out who's better. I'll represent lucas.

ROCK!

Does anyone have something real to contribute?

 

[Uffe]

I predicted what you'll choose. I choose paper! But really, I have nothing to contribute except this.

Why should Ness and Lucas hate each other when they can be the best of friends? Though in reality that would probably never happen.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

We should play online rock paper scissors to figure out who's better. I'll represent lucas.

ROCK!

Does anyone have something real to contribute?

Ness has cooler shoes than lucas?

 

[prOAPC]

i main Lucas, that makes him better

 

[Uffe]

prOAPC has a great Lucas. Irsic, too. But I still love Ness more.

 

[Eagleye893]

I've seen Irsic play IRL, but not a full match of his lucas. he's really good...


I would help contribute a little to the greater ness players, but i'm way too inconsistent to get really far in a tourney; sometimes i do extremely well and at other times i do REALLY bad.

I would say right now ness has more great players than does lucas, but that may change. Lucas may be higher on the tier list, but i believe ness is just better in a lot of ways in comparison to lucas, with only a few minor flaws (pkt easily canceled, but skilled ness/lucas players know what to do with it (lucas' goes through ppl, but can be killed by a single attack); ness' ground game lacks a little, ....).

 

[PhatyCHONG]

This is the thread for debating who is more useful.

(I'm siding with Ness.)

HAH! For all you who think Ness is useless, think again. If you repeatedly press >B, Ness's PK fire will trap the inflicted player, causing high damage. This trick is not usable for lucas, however, because his PK fire is more of a wave attack, and Lucas is pushed back every time he uses it. Ness's PK Pulse (or PK Flash, it's debated which one of these is correct) also is more effective than PK freeze.

More posts once the debating starts.

*Stumbled apon this thread, ness boards"

This "Topic" is indeed a debatable subject, but wouldn't say being in needed for debate. In this current time period "Lucas vs. Ness" has been one of the most debated topics along with Meta Knight Banned or Not Banned, Captain Falcon vs. Ganon, Tier List Placement, ect. It has put in clear that Lucas is [in compared metagame development / potential] better than Ness check the GBD for there reasoning of the SBR with there convincing side.

It's not even clear on what Ness vs. Lucas even means. . .
Is Ness better than Lucas on the tier?
Is Ness vs. Lucas matchup in Ness's favor?
Is Ness Overall better than Lucas?

I'm taking your subject as Lucas vs. Ness Matchup whose better.

I'm sure this matter is already on another thread FYI even if you wanted to make an official discussion and deabte, General Brawl Discussion, would have been an more appropiate place for rather than a more private setting of "Ness Character Board" rather than a more valid public area.

This is the thread for debating who is more useful.

(I'm siding with Ness.)

HAH! For all you who think Ness is useless, think again. If you repeatedly press >B, Ness's PK fire will trap the inflicted player, causing high damage. This trick is not usable for lucas, however, because his PK fire is more of a wave attack, and Lucas is pushed back every time he uses it. Ness's PK Pulse (or PK Flash, it's debated which one of these is correct) also is more effective than PK freeze.

More posts once the debating starts.

In debate over Lucas vs. Ness Pk Fire
I would most strongly disagree with your statement on Ness's PK fire to be better than Lucas. Lucas's PK can be SH pk fired so there is not a push back animation. Lucas PK is better for pressure and spacing his opponet being farther throwing projectile than Ness.

 

[Ref]

We should play online rock paper scissors to figure out who's better. I'll represent lucas.

ROCK!

Does anyone have something real to contribute?

Paper....

Err... Next round I pick scissor...

Umm something real is that if majora's mask link was in brawl his final smash would be the giants mask or fierce deity...... ....If I made the game....

Back to the topic...

Ness is super...

Lucas is duper...

But what is duper without it being super duper?

 

[soccerdude7200]

lol^^^ in the picture above
Lucas is cowering in fear and ness is like yelling at someone while threatening them with his bat of justice...
*sad face*

 

[Cacti]

I think that Ref has eaten too much Magic Cake...

 

[NintenJoe]

Ness and Lucas are evenly matched overall. I think that they'll both move up to the low side of mid tier together. They've been next to each other almost all the time as it stands now anwyay...

 

[Rachmaninav89]

I think both are pretty evenly matched. I also think that both Lucas and Ness are just really fun to play with. Their move sets are different, and their methods of fighting and approaching are different. Also since both characters have spikes I get the same satisfaction for plummeting someone into the abyss. I guess because Lucas' is a little harder to pull off I have more happiness with that. I main Lucas, but lately I have been playing with Ness alot as well, and I have decided both are just as awesome. For me though I love wavebouncing and that's why Lucas takes it for me.

 

[Dajayman]

His name is Pukas (puke + Lucas) from now on.

 

[Uffe]

*Stumbled apon this thread, ness boards"

This "Topic" is indeed a debatable subject, but wouldn't say being in needed for debate. In this current time period "Lucas vs. Ness" has been one of the most debated topics along with Meta Knight Banned or Not Banned, Captain Falcon vs. Ganon, Tier List Placement, ect. It has put in clear that Lucas is [in compared metagame development / potential] better than Ness check the GBD for there reasoning of the SBR with there convincing side.

It's not even clear on what Ness vs. Lucas even means. . .
Is Ness better than Lucas on the tier?
Is Ness vs. Lucas matchup in Ness's favor?
Is Ness Overall better than Lucas?

I'm taking your subject as Lucas vs. Ness Matchup whose better.

IIRC, both Ness and Lucas are even on the tier list. To top it off, people, and when I say people, the Ness boards seem to have it 60:40, Ness' favor. However, Irsic and I believe it to be 50:50 since both characters, though not the same, come pretty close as far as attacks go. Is Ness overall better than Lucas? If you want to compare match ups, then probably.

I'm sure this matter is already on another thread FYI even if you wanted to make an official discussion and debate, General Brawl Discussion, would have been an more appropriate place for rather than a more private setting of "Ness Character Board" rather than a more valid public area.

How much of the public actually use Ness or Lucas, though? Basically both characters are underrated. Though this isn't a match up discussion, did you know that some boards don't even bother contacting other boards when it comes to X vs Y? I've seen some bias stuff in here, but I'm sure that's for ****s and giggles. I'm looking at you, Ref. So bringing this to somewhere like General Discussion will probably turn into a flame fest and have stupid unreasonable comments like, "Well, Ness is better because he's cool and Lucas is queer. That's why Ness is better."

Technically that discussion would turn into a fanboy/girlism topic, I'm sure. I've seen it. Believe it or not, some of us Ness mains use Lucas as secondaries or have used Lucas long enough to determine the outcome of who is better than who. Though I believe they're even when it comes to fighting each other, who has the worst match ups?

In debate over Lucas vs. Ness Pk Fire
I would most strongly disagree with your statement on Ness's PK fire to be better than Lucas. Lucas's PK can be SH pk fired so there is not a push back animation. Lucas PK is better for pressure and spacing his opponet being farther throwing projectile than Ness.

Think of it this way. Ness' PK Fire is equivalent to Lucas' PK Thunder while Lucas' PK Fire is equivalent to Ness' PK Fire. Ness' PK Fire traps his opponents and in a way Lucas' PK Thunder is somewhat like that when it comes to pushing them off the stage or just going through them.