New Marth Tech- Retreating Pivot Grab

[|RK|]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Darn you, Palpi. Darn you to heck!

 

[Remzi]

Wouldnt the inputs take too long to make this an effective chaining tool? I think frame data is an order. SHAYA, GET IN HERE!

I think Shaya indirectly suggested that it may cancel fox-trot lag which would be cool. Hopefully he will test that.


Bellioes, is that with or without the initial dash? Because they are two different techniques and idk if the slide would be the same.

 

[Bellioes]

Its without, but I already told you. I did the technique with it and without and it and the slide looks the same to me. There is no difference whatsoever. You even told me to continue testing. The to techniques seem the same to me. I dont see how adding a dash to the beginning changes the technique besides changing how you apply it in a match.

 

[Palpi]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Darn you, Palpi. Darn you to heck!

Hell.

And after Apex I am switching my main to falco and secondary of Marth.

 

[BleachigoZX]

I'm lazy so I didn't read other post other than the OP.

I'm just going to say:

Can this make it easier to grab MK out of his Tornado?
I'm also hoping for a Bthrow CG using this.

 

[Remzi]

Its without, but I already told you. I did the technique with it and without and it and the slide looks the same to me. There is no difference whatsoever. You even told me to continue testing. The to techniques seem the same to me. I dont see how adding a dash to the beginning changes the technique besides changing how you apply it in a match.

I must have missed where you said there was the same slide.

Thanks for the info

 

[KillL0ck]

I must have missed where you said there was the same slide.

Thanks for the info

I mentioned that even before Bellioes. No need for the dash.

 

[Remzi]

I mentioned that even before Bellioes. No need for the dash.

*sigh* They have different utilities. Through his testing, it appears that the slide you get is the same distance for both which makes testing easier.

 

[Palpi]

It just seems like the dash then dash back would be really awkward to pull off without being punished since you have to be fairly close to your opponent. It isn't like Marth has olimar's grab range.

 

[Bellioes]

Bengals trying to find a use for it in approaching. And in the Diddy boards, a respected Diddy player says that he really likes this techniques since he Foxtrots around a lot so at pretty much any time, he can just do a retreating pivot grab relatively quickly. I really do see some potential in this technique. We just need to find the situations where its good (ie. this would be good in spot dodge wars to throw your opponents timing off and to retreat while covering your tracks with a grab)

 

[BacklashMarth]

I could see this useful as a "spacing your mistakes" kind of thing. When you whiff something, sometimes it will cause your opponent to rush in and punish your ending lag. Since this move can whiff pretty safely, it would be nice to bait an approach so you can then hit your opponent with something when they expect you to not be able to act.

 

[DanGR]

I found that you could pivot into a dsmash (not dash pivot cancel->dsmash) a while back. Same mechanic?

 

[Bellioes]

I dont know about this pivot to dsmash though. You say it isnt the technique that SamauriPanda discovered so how do you this one. Could you explain your method?

 

[DanGR]

I dont know about this pivot to dsmash though. You say it isnt the technique that SamauriPanda discovered so how do you this one. Could you explain your method?

As suspicious as this sounds, I'm not exactly sure how to do it. >_> I couldn't repeat it very well considering I didn't know the exact buttons I pressed. Maybe this thread tells how to do the first part of it. I'll do some testing tonight.

 

[Kishin]

Maybe it's just canceling the initial dash frames -> whatever (D-smash).

 

[Tennet]

Good job, nice find now i really wanna learn this =P

 

[Remzi]

I found that you could pivot into a dsmash (not dash pivot cancel->dsmash) a while back. Same mechanic?

It may be the same mechanic because i've done standing grabs out of this as well and they both normally require you to be standing or walking. Don't know how I did it either, though >_>

I'm guessing there is a small window during the pivot where the game says you are standing. I'll look more into it, it could leaf to a lot more.

 

[Bellioes]

Isnt it just a normal pivot grab when you standing grab outve a pivot. I thought we already know how to do that in this game??

 

[Rave925]

Man! This technique is hard to pull off! How long does it take you guys to get this thing anyway? I'm still trying to get used to doing a dash and then turning around instead of doing another dash and it's crazy hard for me to get down.

 

[TreK]

People always say it's bad to throw out attacks and hope for the best ; with this technique it's basically what you do, but nothing bad usually happens if you miss. That's why it looks so sexy =3

I really can't get true pivot down

 

[Bellioes]

Guys, dont do the dash until you can do it from a standing still position. Just go,while facing right, right>left>right+grab in conscesion. You should grab right while sliding to the left. After you can do that, try doing it after a dash.

 

[BacklashMarth]

EPIC WIN! I just got this tech down after 10mins of practice. The input time is really quick (under a second i belive or exactly 1 second ).

 

[phi1ny3]

So this is almost the brawl equivalent of dash dance -> JCG, minus the backwards slide?

 

[Remzi]

I suppose so, but the slide is kinda what makes it IMO.

And yea the input time is very tight.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Hmm, i think i just thought of a use for this. If you are near your opponent and both of you are sheilding, you can use this techniqe for a safe grab attempt. You have to drop your shield of course to do this but i think the grab is pretty reliable in this situation.

 

[DanGR]

Ok, I found how to do the pivoted dsmash thing.

You press the opposite direction and down on the c-stick just after you begin a run.
So from a neutral state...
left->quickly right+dsmash. Essentially, you're beginning a dash dance and pressing dsmash when you turn around for the first time.

Pretty cool if you ask me. Uses? I dunno. Better spacing?

 

[Darxmarth23]

Ok, I found how to do the pivoted dsmash thing.

You press the opposite direction and down on the c-stick just after you begin a run.
So from a neutral state...
left->quickly right+dsmash. Essentially, you're beginning a dash dance and pressing dsmash when you turn around for the first time.

Pretty cool if you ask me. Uses? I dunno. Better spacing?

With this you can mix up your tipper range with your untipper range causing mind games.

Again, the viability of these techs are questionable. I suppose they are excellent mind games, but it doesn't really belong in marths core arsenal.

Nice job though.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Hmm, i think i just thought of a use for this. If you are near your opponent and both of you are sheilding, you can use this techniqe for a safe grab attempt. You have to drop your shield of course to do this but i think the grab is pretty reliable in this situation.

it's quicker and more effective to just do a regular pivot grab in that situation

 

[mikeHAZE]

yeah but this looks cooler...

 

[BacklashMarth]

yeah but this looks cooler...

^What he said. And the backwards slide will throw you into the ideal marth-ing range as opposed to you just grabbing at the air and sitting in the yellow/red zone

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

You can slide with dash attack LOL. Why do people keep trying to explain themselves into effectiveness when this is clearly a dangerous tactic?


W/e.. marth boards rofl

 

[mikeHAZE]

lol i was kidding, i probably wont even use this, it just looks funny.

 

[OmegaXF]

Expect much play

 

[Mazaloth]

Couldn't you technically just Left>Right+Grab?

 

[BacklashMarth]

^That = no backslide

 

[Mazaloth]

^That = no backslide

I just tried it.
And, it is confirmed, you can.

 

[Remzi]

I've said it numerous times already in this thread.

What I presented is different because it can be done out of a dash or fox-trot. Therefore it can be used as an approach unlike the others.

 

[rathy Aro]

I tried this on lvl 9s just now and I'm sorry I doubted it. I JV 4 stocked 3/4 times I played. I played about 15 matches and it was soooo much ****. I had to use the old style to play against pit =( but I still won.

suggestion: when you're edgeguarding make sure to b-reverse twice before every fair. It really ****s with your opponents spacing and makes getting fairs off too easy.

b-reversed true pivot needles. This is simply too good. nuff said.

true pivot to pivot boost grab. Once you master this you're basically wavedashing around your opponent. It also makes grabbing MKs way too easy making that matchup 55-45 at worst sheik's favor! Sheik is a legit MK counter if you can master this!!!!!!!

Spoiler

April fools =P & <3 Chok

This post was a joke but it could work for people like falco and sheik since it would provide even more distance. I did it with falco and he slid a quarter of FD. Seems pretty unpunishable to me.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

For the distances on the slide data Bellioes, can you simply tell us who has a long slide or a short slide? I can't really understand how different the lengths are for each character... For example, how would I know if Pika's initial dash is longer that MK initial dash when comparing their reverse grab slides? I'm just asking whether you could just label the slides as being long, medium, and short.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

Awesome, I fit in that category then since my name is pretty much STFU.

aha ha. So yeah I've been trying this tech with some of the roster and to no avail. Cant pull it off with Snake, MK, DDD which is good.

I didnt think you'd be able to pull it off with D3. He doesnt seem to get any real type of slide -- exception being dash grab-- even when pivot grabbing D3 doesnt ever really slide. I can only see Falco, Marth -- anyone with any type of boost/sliding pivot/grab making any real use out of this.