New Sakurai Interview.

[Wenbobular]

Why are people who are recovering inclined to turn away from the ledge in the first place?

They wouldn't be, making SmashChu's post even sillier

 

[Atlus8]

That d!ck!

 

[Jam Stunna]

thats a pretty disappointing interview

My sentiment as well. Sakurai seems to think that as a developer, he has to choose between satisfying either the hardcore or the casual crowd. What he ignores is that he can satisfy both, and in fact, he already has with the game that he maligns in the interview. Melee sold 7 million copies, and 99% of those people who purchased the game were not tournament players. Everyone was happy; we tournament players had some great times, and regular players did too.

Like it or not, there is a general trend in the fighting game genre towards easier and more accessible. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Street Fighter IV is easier than Third Strike, but the trade-off is that SF4 essentially revitalized the entire genre, and now we have a major release every year. That seems like a pretty good deal to me, but the key is that Capcom also hasn't forgotten about the people that want something more challenging than SF4. Those people are getting an improved version of Third Strike.

Sakurai has overlearned the lessons of the industry. Brawl being more accessible is not the problem. The problem is that the design choices made for Brawl gutted what made Melee such an enjoyable experience for everyone, tournament and non-tournament players alike. And I suppose that someone would argue that Brawl has sold three million more copies than Melee. That's true, but is that because it's "more accessible," or because the Wii is selling like gangbusters in comparison to the Gamecube?*

*

Spoiler

Or put another way- Melee sold 7 million copies on a system with a 21 million unit install base (33% adoption rate) versus Brawl which has sold 10 million copies on a system with a 77 million unit install base (12% adoption rate)

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Nice post. This approach is going to bite the 4th game in the butt harder than Brawl if there is one which is why I don't want any more.

I know I said something like this but just remember that if it does happen, I called it.

 

[John12346]

I bet both casual players and competitive players alike could agree on Smash having two things:
- Ease of controls (ala Brawl, via buffer controls, certain easy to pick up characters, and simple controls)
- Character balance (ala Melee's Top 8, or maybe any isolated tier in any Smash game)
.
.
.
.
.
Now, I'm gonna go off on my own point now...

This might sound naive, but Brawl Minus carries both of the above ideals. It still has the simple controls everyone enjoys using, along with a wicked contingency plan of character balance through sheer overpoweredness.

Now, I'm not saying "MAKE BRAWL MINUS THE NEXT SMASH," but I'm definitely thinking the premise behind Smash 4 should definitely parallel the "everyone broken = everyone balanced." idea Minus carries. From what I've seen around here, casual and competitive players alike enjoy playing Minus, so if Smash 4 were to ever go into production, the creators would do well to take a step in that direction.

Easy controls and character balance. Everyone cares about those two things.

 

[Limeee]

one time i was with some friends (who never play videogames, and happen to be girls) and they said that melee was more fun casually than brawl. pretty much everyone i know outside my local brawl community says the same.

 

[TurnOneWrath]

one time i was with some friends (who never play videogames, and happen to be girls) and they said that melee was more fun casually than brawl.

This is generally because Brawl seems over the top in a lot of ways that Melee doesn't.
I had those same sentiments when I first played the game with a friend, and when I finally got my own copy I was still inclined to call him and ask, "Am I fighting my opponent or the stage?"

My girlfriend isn't a gamer, but she will occasionally join in on a game I'm playing if it looks simple enough for her to at least accomplish a little. Like Ratchet & Clank and Smash Bros. Melee.
But when it comes to Brawl she looks at it in the same way she did Mario Galaxy: "That is far too much going on."

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

And I suppose that someone would argue that Brawl has sold three million more copies than Melee. That's true, but is that because it's "more accessible," or because the Wii is selling like gangbusters in comparison to the Gamecube?*

*Or put another way- Melee sold 7 million copies on a system with a 21 million unit install base (33% adoption rate) versus Brawl which has sold 10 million copies on a system with a 77 million unit install base (12% adoption rate)

Super Mario Sunshine sold about 5.50 million (25% ish).
Super Mario Galaxy sold about 8.84 million (11% ish).
There's more to adoption rates than X being bigger than Y.


Generally speaking, I think people tend to make two mistakes: one is overestimating Melee's accessibility towards non-gamers; the other is assuming that the average player doesn't think Melee and Brawl are too similar outside of content.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Uninformed players DO think that they are similar with a few obvious exceptions.

I know this from Kotaku comments.

 

[Amide]

My sentiment as well. Sakurai seems to think that as a developer, he has to choose between satisfying either the hardcore or the casual crowd. What he ignores is that he can satisfy both, and in fact, he already has with the game that he maligns in the interview. Melee sold 7 million copies, and 99% of those people who purchased the game were not tournament players. Everyone was happy; we tournament players had some great times, and regular players did too.

Like it or not, there is a general trend in the fighting game genre towards easier and more accessible. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Street Fighter IV is easier than Third Strike, but the trade-off is that SF4 essentially revitalized the entire genre, and now we have a major release every year. That seems like a pretty good deal to me, but the key is that Capcom also hasn't forgotten about the people that want something more challenging than SF4. Those people are getting an improved version of Third Strike.

Sakurai has overlearned the lessons of the industry. Brawl being more accessible is not the problem. The problem is that the design choices made for Brawl gutted what made Melee such an enjoyable experience for everyone, tournament and non-tournament players alike. And I suppose that someone would argue that Brawl has sold three million more copies than Melee. That's true, but is that because it's "more accessible," or because the Wii is selling like gangbusters in comparison to the Gamecube?*

*

Spoiler

Or put another way- Melee sold 7 million copies on a system with a 21 million unit install base (33% adoption rate) versus Brawl which has sold 10 million copies on a system with a 77 million unit install base (12% adoption rate)

I'm not sure if this is a fair argument. The fact that lots of casual players enjoyed Melee, which is true, isn't really proven by massive sales. And the adoption rate doesn't really make a difference in popularity for lots of reasons, including the widespread ownership of Wiis by really young and really old people, and wider game selection on the Wii.

You're right about everything else. I think the problem is that he gratuitously made changes that may have subliminally made the casual 99% like their Smash game a teeny bit more, while pissing off the other 1%. I do think Brawl is a better game for people to randomly pick up, but at the unfortunate compromise of quality.


On an unrelated note, great post Amazing Ampharos. I think reduced speed is a bigger deal than you think, but otherwise your points are really good.

 

[Mic_128]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but news about Melee, well it kinda goes in the Melee board.