New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Luco]

hmm.. Forgot about marth, sorry about that. As for kirby, that was probably a mind blank too. There's also the fact(oh man i'm going to get completely bashed for this) i never played melee.

Before you beat me to a pulp, consider the fact that i would have wanted a GC but never could get one(I don't know why my brother never did.)

So while i'm trying to learn as much as i can about melee(and actually get it as soon as i can find a way to put my SD card back in to my wii for certain reasons), please forgive me if i have a mind blank...

Anyway, just because there were barely any franchises that followed the pattern i suggested, be aware that doesn't necessarily disprove my point. A lot of those franchises got 2 new reps instead of 1, so the basic gist of it is that most franchises are getting more and more reps. But take your argument in to account, and then there are other reasons why slippy and peppy have chances(nostalgia effect, the rumours going around that the only SF/SW games Sakurai played were like the first 2, so on, so forth((i can't remember what the exact saying was)) ).

 

[ETWIST51294]

hmm.. Forgot about marth, sorry about that. As for kirby, that was probably a mind blank too. There's also the fact(oh man i'm going to get completely bashed for this) i never played melee.

Go.

Buy it.

Now.

Or I will find you.

 

[splat]

Anyway, just because there were barely any franchises that followed the pattern i suggested, be aware that doesn't necessarily disprove my point. A lot of those franchises got 2 new reps instead of 1, so the basic gist of it is that most franchises are getting more and more reps. But take your argument in to account, and then there are other reasons why slippy and peppy have chances.

Which point are you talking about, really? I'd make a sarcastic remark about the part that I bolded, but I think it's obvious enough as it is.

Also, there's a difference between adding every character from franchises, or create a nice roster with characters that are actually important enough from a franchise that is big enough to get a certain amount of reps. That being said, Starfox' 3 rep is enough in my views (and as far as I'm concerned, that's the general thought on it). It's time for other franchises to get new reps - neglected franchises, underrepresented franchises or just franchises that are plainly more important than Starfox.

 

[Reyairia]

The only pattern I've found is my own, and it has yet to be broken aside from ones that are pretty much forced to; those with non-recurring protagonists. Protagonists are always first, allies are second, villains are third.

4th reps are a second ally, and 5th reps seem to be an alternate version of the protagonist (Dr. Mario and Toon/Young Link) but I can't say for sure since there's only two examples of this happening (LoZ and Super Mario).

"Alternate versions" of the same character can be applied to an ally slot as well (Sheik and ZSS) if there is no alternative like with Metroid. Or heck, even LoZ back in the days when Melee was developed. Back then there was no one for the Zelda series outside of the triforce three, and now they have Tingle. I still don't think Sheik is getting scrapped, though she by all means should be. She has no relevance anymore and Tingle has been around more for and deserves the spot instead.

It's obvious you can't apply it to a series like Fire Emblem, Pokemon or Mother, which don't even have a consistent protagonist. Furthermore, they're the only exceptions.

It makes sense though; if I was developing fighting games, I would probably follow this formula myself.

Of course, Sakurai could through this pattern out the window for Smash4 if he wants to, but he's followed it through three smash series.

The fact that the only exceptions are those that have no recurring protagonists seems to be too perfect to be a coincidence.

 

[Kantrip]

Funny part is, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, and Mother aren't exceptions yet. Pokemon started with the mascot (pikachu) and a support character who was popular from the anime (jiggs), and then gained a "villain" in melee (mewtwo).

FE and Mother havent had the chance to receive a villain as their third slot, though it seems easy to expect that will be the case.

I think it's just a coincidence, but it is pretty neat.

 

[Reyairia]

Fire Emblem and Mother are an exception, because they've had two protagonists, not a protagonist and a sidekick. Makes more sense than following the pattern because Smash wants to represent the entire franchise, and if they followed the pattern they could only represent one or two games of the entire series. I guess they could add Pokey as a villain since he's appeared both in Earthbound and Mother3 but then that's the coincidence.

Pokemon followed through until Melee, but it obviously broke it in Brawl because Lucario was more important and more popular than Mewtwo. Pokemon depends more on popularity and the "token generation mascot" before anything else. They will go back to the pattern when most likely Zoroark replaces Lucario -

I don't care what people argue; Zoroark was a villain for a short amount of time. Hell, Bowser is an anti-hero in at least half of the games he appears in nowadays (look at pretty much every mario rpg and all the spinoffs) and he still counts as the villain. Mewttwo did a hell face turn in the movie and was never really a villain in the games. Pokemon has to kind of grasp at straws for a villain pokemon by definition.

- But I don't expect they'll keep following it throughout the future smash installments. It isn't looking to follow a pattern, it's looking to put in what is most popular at the time. Which makes a perfect amount of sense.

It seems to be too perfect to be a coincidence. If it is one, it's one big *** coincidence.

 

[Berserker.]

I don't understand Toad supporters by virtue of the fact that I don't see any appeal in Toad. I mean...he's a mushroom guy who's usual role is to be scared, and not in a Luigi sort of "I'm going to wet myself but I'm still going to do something" but more of a "I'm going to wet myself and just get pushed around while doing it" sort of way. Other than that its just information giving type character. I honestly don't see the appeal in him as a Smash character. Not saying he couldn't by any means, since he's had plenty of roles

Spoiler

where he just copies the Mario Bros' moves

and enough notoriety, but I still don't see it as a good idea.

That's like the 3rd time you said that.

We know that you're not much of Toad supporter.

What do you guys think of Toad as a tech chaser? He knocks someone down and the opponent is then forced to tech in a certain direction (if he decides to move) and if he guesses wrong, Toad gets them again and the process repeats itself until the opponent gets out. After considering the idea of using the Golden Mushroom as a move for Toad and considering the potential for it thanks to El Fuerte's Habanero Dash, it seems like a good playstyle for him.

I think the grab style pictures Toad well. That's why I changed Kart into Toad rush.

Problem is most fans are not asking for Ryu, they are asking for Megaman. To add Ryu in would be a slap to the face of every fan. They could add Ryu in addition to Megaman, but not before him. Ryu doesn't a 353 visitor response thread over on Capcom's own forum. No one is asking for him, fans want Megaman. He will bring in just as much money as either third party characters will. The only one who is worth every penny is Sonic the Hedgehog.

I understand where he is coming from, but there is something to be said about fan demand too.

What would be a huge slap in the face would be Zero getting in but not Mega Man. I imagine in Wii U graphics, that building in Mega Man 2 rising until the top then unfortunately, you see Zero then "NEWCOMER: ZERO"!

Hope that does not happen.

Trust me, he is. And most people don't want another Mario character over all, so that point kind of supercedes our discussion of Mario characters.

I don't know if Sakurai will release polls outside Japan (He might since he's doing his best in this smash think).

Okay, no more Mario character discussions. Back to 3rd parties and ridiculous characters

I think it will basically come down to whoever Sakurai's team will think will be the most unique (or easiest to implement) Mario newcomer character.

All possible mario reps: Unique

Easy to implement: Toad since there's already a model for him. (Neutral B of Peach).

 

[Buci01]

Funny part is, Fire Emblem, Pokemon, and Mother aren't exceptions yet. Pokemon started with the mascot (pikachu) and a support character who was popular from the anime (jiggs), and then gained a "villain" in melee (mewtwo).

FE and Mother havent had the chance to receive a villain as their third slot, though it seems easy to expect that will be the case.

I think it's just a coincidence, but it is pretty neat.

But Pokemon doesn't count at all. The Main protagonist (Pokemon trainer) was added in the third game. Not in the first, not in the second but in the third game.
I already had the discussion when smash64 was out, and we wondered why the protagonist of every game series is present, but not "Ash" ( I was 14 back then, and we all called our trainer Ash (I'd still do that))

 

[Kantrip]

Alright the pokemon trainer is the protagonist. I called pikachu the mascot, and yeah it doesnt fit the pattern.

 

[Conviction]

@iblis ill have to play you one day if youre so good =P

In what? Brawl, TvC, or MKWii? The only reasons I flaunt my wins over Omega here is because he reminds me of my cousin and I always do that to my family

Ryu's the mascot, there's no change about that, but you have to look at the storyline in the games. This is what I meant by focus.

Yeah idk how you can't see Ryu as the SF mascot, unless, you haven't played SF at all. LOL

That's like the 3rd time you said that.

We know that you're not much of Toad supporter.

I think the grab style pictures Toad well. That's why I changed Kart into Toad rush.

Get 'em! LOL I feel like I'm accepting Toad more with you around. I don't quite exactly support him though.

 

[Berserker.]

I get piled too much by Jr. fans. It's harder than you think trying to hold them off.

If Toad does not appear but no Mario rep comes, I'm fine with that. My 2nd wanted is Snake staying and Ridley

I think I'm fine with any Mega Man getting in (Including Volnutt). I hope Zero won't replace him

 

[Conviction]

>.>

<.<

People won't like me for saying this but Zero gets in instead of Megaman, I'll like it just like MvC3.

*runs*

 

[Berserker.]

Maybe X could get in the game but well.... I'm against Zero but I didn't say he has a low chance

 

[Conviction]

Aight I'm done with the Zero thing but um I'm guessing they'll have the most up to date Megaman.

 

[Starphoenix]

>.>

<.<

People won't like me for saying this but Zero gets in instead of Megaman, I'll like it just like MvC3.

*runs*

I'd rather have Zero in than Ryu... In fact in some ways, from a gameplay standpoint I'd prefer Zero over Megaman.

Stage Name - Resistance Base
Icon - Z

Megaman X3 - Zero
Megaman X4 - Opening Stage Zero
Megaman X5 - X Vs. Zero
Megaman Zero - Enemy Hall
Megaman Zero - Crash
Megaman Zero 2 - Departure
Megaman Zero 2 - Ice Brain
Megaman Zero 2 - Power Bomb
Megaman Zero 3 - Cannon Ball
Megaman Zero 4 - Esperanto
Megaman Zero 4 - Cyberspace
Megaman Zero 4 - Straight Ahead
Megaman ZX Advent - Rockin' On

 

[shinhed-echi]

Aight I'm done with the Zero thing but um I'm guessing they'll have the most up to date Megaman.

I don't think "up to date" is what Capcom focuses on. When we got Zero in MvC3, we didn't get Megaman ZX (which is basically the most recent model of Zero... Or X+Zero) nor Megaman Zero's zero.

Or in TvC, Megaman Volnutt wasn't relevant at all. (Aside from Inafune loving Legends and probably sneaking him in). This was two or three years before Megaman Legends 3.

 

[Starphoenix]

This should be the MODOK theme of Super Smash Bros. http://youtu.be/ItlMzEvf7Uw

 

[Conviction]

Ahh I see my bad.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I'd rather have Zero in than Ryu... In fact in some ways, from a gameplay standpoint I'd prefer Zero over Megaman.

Stage Name - Resistance Base
Icon - Z

Megaman X3 - Zero
Megaman X4 - Opening Stage Zero
Megaman X5 - X Vs. Zero
Megaman Zero - Enemy Hall
Megaman Zero - Crash
Megaman Zero 2 - Departure
Megaman Zero 2 - Ice Brain
Megaman Zero 2 - Power Bomb
Megaman Zero 3 - Cannon Ball
Megaman Zero 4 - Esperanto
Megaman Zero 4 - Cyberspace
Megaman Zero 4 - Straight Ahead
Megaman ZX Advent - Rockin' On

Awesome!!!

Also, I don't think alot of people would want Zero over Megagan lol...

Ryu is a bit overrated, but he is cool, plus he's iconic.

But Zero seems like the "cool" character..I really got to play the games..

 

[Berserker.]

Anyone reply to my stupid prediction about....

Spoiler

The intro in Mega Man II with Wii U graphics.....

The building rises and rises and rises slowly

Then on top of that building... IT'S ZERO!!!! Then the Mega Man II theme stops playing then Zero's theme from MvC 3 plays

Lol. That should be the trailer if Zero gets in SSB 4 (Which I'm against but it's funny though seeing the reactions of other people).

 

[OmegaXXII]

Anyone reply to my stupid prediction about....

Spoiler

The intro in Mega Man II with Wii U graphics.....

The building rises and rises and rises slowly

Then on top of that building... IT'S ZERO!!!! Then the Mega Man II theme stops playing then Zero's theme from MvC 3 plays

Lol. That should be the trailer if Zero gets in SSB 4 (Which I'm against but it's funny though seeing the reactions of other people).

That be definetly be a WTF!!! Moment, Id sure would be surprised, outraged fans indeed, although now that you mentioned it, it won't be as much.

 

[Deleted member]

@The earlier argument: Sora and the Kingdom Hearts characters are EXTREMELY popular. I don't know how people think otherwise.

Also, Sora is a product of Square-Enix, probably more so than Disney.

 

[Deleted member]

That's just silly and you have no proof that nintendo would do that. You wouldn't be arguing this if Mcdonalds owned Megaman. It's the same thing. The company is irrelevant in this instance.

And really? Sora, isn't as popular as these characters? I very much beg to differ.

- Yes I would be arguing the same thing if Mega Man was owned by McDonalds. In the unlikely chance that Nintendo tries to get third-party characters on their own, they will be going to video game companies like Capcom, Square Enix, and Ubisoft, not Disney. If they put Sora in, they would also have to mention Mickey, Goofy, Simba, etc. as Assist Trophies/stickers/trophies because they were part of Kingdom Hearts history.

Also, all the characters I've mentioned are more iconic and more well known then Sora has. They have been around for longer and made a significant impact on video game history in some way or form.

[Another thing i'm interested in... Why aren't there any supporters for slippy or Peppy for another Starfox rep? I know there are already 2 from the first one, and there is the argument that they could be similar, but if you were to add them and change their movesets, then there wouldn't be a problem. I like Krystal, so i'd actually like to see 2, but... (besides, peppy and slippy are awesome! )

... On second thought, I can see why there isn't much support... Ahhh well, i love them anyways! :D

Peppy and Slippy would likely be clones of Fox. The only Star Fox rep with a realistic chance is Krystal, who is also the only good Star Fox candidate.

Maybe an actually good game for a change might change that. Lara was one of the most iconics back when she debuted but in the last 10 years she has fallen to B-grade. Afterall she still is one of the most known female human characters.

I don't think having good games now will help Lara's chances. Sonic was in the middle of a terrible slump of quality on consoles when development on him started in mid-2007. Sonic got in because he was highly relevant, enormously demanded. very important to video games, and people want to see Mario and Sonic fight. Brawl made that dream come true. Lara is relevant, but not as much as Mega Man, Sonic, or Snake, has next to no demand for her inclusion, importance to video game is mostly forgotten, and she won't help sell games.

Let's take a gander at the series specific rosters:

Kirby:
64: Kirby - 1
Melee: Kirby - 1
Brawl: Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede - 3

Fire Emblem:
64: 0
Melee: Marth, Roy - 2
Brawl: Marth, Ike - 2

No patterns at all.

That being said, Sakurai doesn't seem to follow patterns - he seems do what seems right to him.

You're right about no pattern for Kirby or Fire Emblem, although to be fair, there is a pattern for Star Fox, which makes Krystal's inclusion possible.

I still don't think Sheik is getting scrapped, though she by all means should be. She has no relevance anymore and Tingle has been around more for and deserves the spot instead.

No...

Sheik is in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D for the 3DS, released last month. Sheik is relevant and her spot has been cemented. Sheik is also unique, which makes her removal make even less sense.

Maybe X could get in the game but well.... I'm against Zero but I didn't say he has a low chance

And Zero does have a low chance. Mega Man is one of the main face of Capcom and is the most highly requested 3rd party character for SSB4. It is very likely only one third-party character from Capcom will get in and Capcom needs to put in the Classic or X variation of Mega Man.

Aight I'm done with the Zero thing but um I'm guessing they'll have the most up to date Megaman.

Are you referring to Star Force Mega Man? I would say that the Classic version is more relevant then any other Mega Man out their now. Maybe Volnutt, but we don't know if the game is going on or not.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Sora and the Kingdom Hearts characters are EXTREMELY popular. I don't know how people think otherwise.

Also, Sora is a product of Square-Enix, probably more so than Disney.

THIS!!

I always wanted both Sora or at least Rikku, I remember rooting for them during Brawl's hype, but sadly since they are part of Disney, it's not likely to happen.

Sora as a character would fit in Smash perfectly.

 

[Conviction]

Anyone reply to my stupid prediction about....

Spoiler

The intro in Mega Man II with Wii U graphics.....

The building rises and rises and rises slowly

Then on top of that building... IT'S ZERO!!!! Then the Mega Man II theme stops playing then Zero's theme from MvC 3 plays

Lol. That should be the trailer if Zero gets in SSB 4 (Which I'm against but it's funny though seeing the reactions of other people).

Aiyyo post that response you PM'd me. I GOT THIS.

Sora and the Kingdom Hearts characters are EXTREMELY popular. I don't know how people think otherwise.

Also, Sora is a product of Square-Enix, probably more so than Disney.

...no one said they aren't popular. The thing is they are owned by not only Square but Disney too. You can't just say sorry Disney you have no say in this. Lawsuit

SSBF, Idk what I was talking about. Not to annoy anyone but idk why we keep talking about Megaman's chances when they are about 99.9 percent now with Capcom contacting Sakurai and Sora about it. Only Megaman related I'd really care to see is movesets and stages.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Sora from Kingdom Hearts should equal Sora. Ltd.

Sad to say, Iblis brought up a good point about Sora.

 

[Berserker.]

I don't like Sora as a character (But playing as him is awesome). He's such a sap -_-'

 

[Conviction]

Idk who my favorite character is, I'm not touching another KH game unless it's KH3.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I don't like Sora as a character (But playing as him is awesome). He's such a sap -_-'

How come you don't like him? But personally I prefer Rikku, he's the best.

@Iblis: But KH3 is probably just a myth, Its been over 7 years since we've seen one on a console, excluding KH: RE: Chain of Memories.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Idk who my favorite character is, I'm not touching another KH game unless it's KH3.

Well I pulled up from the KH fandom the moment they started with the weirdly named games instead of KH3, I just knew what was coming. It ended with KH2 for me.

Sora would indeed be a nice adition to SSB. But, as it's been mentioned endlessly, the Disney part of him won't allow it most likely.


And I would like to see other Squeenix characters before him.

-Crono
-Chocobo
-Black Mage or "Warriors of Light" (consisting of a Black Mage, White Mage, Ninja and Warrior)

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[Conviction]

My bro and I were JUST talking about that! Could you imagine Riley going: I played all them irrelevant games and I hate that ****! YA"LL *****'S KNOW YOU AINT RELEASING KINGDOM HEARTS III!

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

My last KH game was KH2 as well. KH is like a video game anime, it has all these damn fillers and prequels. LOL

 

[Berserker.]

I like Roxas better than Sora.

Kingdom Hearts III is not happening. Might as well wait for another not main saga Kingdom hearts game (3DS dreams by blight whatever).

I liked KH II. KH 179 days was sort of repetitive.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Sad to say, but I don't think Sora is going to even appear in KH3, if they even make it that is.

Have you guys played, Birth by Sleep/358:2??

I have yet to play those but it seems to look fun because I seen Sora.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[Berserker.]

You guys might be wondering what I meant by 179 days.

358 divided by 2

 

[Conviction]

Goofy for KH3's main character. Goofy is on point. I almost cried when I thought he died in KH2. I WAS READY TO KICK *** YO

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yea, I heard there was an exclusive mobile game of it.

Well how about Cloud, I bet he's even worse than Sora am I rite?

 

[Conviction]

>.>

<.<

Idk what's up with all the Cloud hate, I wouldn't mind him. I'd probably 2nd him.

*runs*

 

[OmegaXXII]

Goofy for KH3's main character. Goofy is on point. I almost cried when I thought he died in KH2. I WAS READY TO KICK *** YO

Why are you spoiling me!! Spoil tags please!

Lol.. I've had the game for years but ironically I've never played it, the first one was awesome.