New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Starphoenix]

Already tried Wave Race, played the one for the Gamecube in a hospital long ago. I've never played a Golden Sun game, is it worth it? Or what about the latest Starfy game?

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I supported you when you were alone on DQ on the day of my daughter's wedding, now it's time for you to return the favour.

But seriously try Golden Sun

 

[Starphoenix]

I supported you when you were alone on DQ on the day of my daughter's wedding, now it's time for you to return the favour.

But seriously try Golden Sun

I... Do not get it...

So am I going to miss out a lot if I just jump into Dark Dawn? I still have a Gameboy Advance SP, playing the first ones are an option for me too?

 

[shinhed-echi]

Jump into StarTropics and help me out here.
(jk, you won't enjoy it due to the difficulty anyway)


Dive into random retro games then. They're always fun (Except Urban Champion). Balloon Kid for Game Boy is pretty fun. Joy Mech Fight isn't so bad (but it gets monotonous after the first 2 waves of fighters). Panel de Pon is a good puzzle game. And Nazo no Murasame Jo is Zelda on steroids, and linear.

 

[Starphoenix]

Jump into StarTropics and help me out here.
(jk, you won't enjoy it due to the difficulty anyway)


Dive into random retro games then. They're always fun (Except Urban Champion). Balloon Kid for Game Boy is pretty fun. Joy Mech Fight isn't so bad (but it gets monotonous after the first 2 waves of fighters). Panel de Pon is a good puzzle game. And Nazo no Murasame Jo is Zelda on steroids, and linear.

Actually I played both. On the NES too. Love both of those games! Beaten the first one and have yet to beat the final boss in the second game.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Watch the Godfather son!

If you could I'd go for the GBA games first, I was kind of disappointed by DD

 

[Starphoenix]

Watch the Godfather son!

If you could I'd go for the GBA games first, I was kind of disappointed by DD

Which one though?

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

The first Golden Sun, and I'd you like it go to the second


Ditto for the Godfather

 

[Hoots]

Already tried Wave Race, played the one for the Gamecube in a hospital long ago. I've never played a Golden Sun game, is it worth it? Or what about the latest Starfy game?

The legendary Starfy game is fantastic. I recommend it heavily. Have you tried Professor Layton yet? Hard to go wrong with a good puzzle.

 

[BlueXenon]

Toad can't be in SBB because he is used in peach's special.

 

[ETWIST51294]

The legendary Starfy game is fantastic. I recommend it heavily. Have you tried Professor Layton yet? Hard to go wrong with a good puzzle.

The other 3 are better. BELIEVE ME.

 

[Napos]

Yes Godfather is important in life as well.

 

[Reyairia]

Back to the Ridley arguments. I personally feel he's better as a boss than a playable character. A smaller Ridley wouldn't seem right with him. I know it's possible and I wouldn't care if they did do that with him but personally I liked him as a boss.

He could be both like Bowser was in Melee.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

@Barbasol

Conker would never get in. They practically disowned his game.

 

[Mikachiru]

@Barbasol

Conker would never get in. They practically disowned his game.

I thought that was because Rare is owned by Microsoft or whatever now? I'd love to see Banjo and Kazooie, but...

 

[Barbasol]

Taken in context you would realize I said in the condition RARE was still owned by Nintendo, which it isn't. Conker went awkwardly lewd shortly into the end of the N64's lifespan, so true, even if they'd stayed, who knows.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Conker is so great.

 

[Luco]

Yea but the problem with ridley that i see is that he is primarily an aerial character, so to make him small and put him on the ground seems a tad.... wrong. By all means, getting rid of this small hurdle would leave me completely happy with him as a character.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Toad can't be in SBB because he is used in peach's special.

Inb4berserkerstartsaheatedargument

But seriously, you are wrong!!!

READ THIS !!!

Spoiler

Toad… one of the most iconic characters of the Mario series and a popular group that has been with the series since it’s beginning. Does Toad deserve a playable spot on the roster of a future Super Smash Bros. game? Of course!

NOW... why is Toad a perfectly viable (and likely) candidate for a future Super Smash Bros.?

Despite Toad's vast popularity, fame, and involvement with the series, many continue to argue that his "small roles" are what is bringing him down. They fail to even consider the idea that having "small roles" won't always hurt a characters chances. Toad may not have some of the biggest, most important roles in the games, but you definitely cannot say he is not important to the series. If you say this, you are ignoring the fact that he has appeared in pretty much every major Mario title and spin-off since the beginning of the series' entire existence. You are ignoring the fact that he has become an iconic character of the series and possibly even of Nintendo in general throughout his history.

It really baffles me how people can say that Fawful is more deserving because he is "more important." I also find find it funny that people who argue in favor of Fawful over Toad use the argument that he is newer and therefore more recognizable among younger fans. They seem to be neglecting the fact that Toad is well-known not only among younger fans, but of anyone who has ever played any major Mario game no matter how old they are. Sure, being newer doesn't hurt, and being the villain of three Mario games is an important role, but is that really important to the series as a whole? Is he iconic? Is he as well-known, familiar, recognizable or popular as Toad? Ask anyone even remotely familiar with Mario who Toad is, they will more than likely know. You can't do the same with Fawful. Imagine the reaction of Toad's removal from the series compared to the reaction of Fawful never returning again...

The argument that Toad is a "generic species" is incredibly ignorant. First of all, we all know this. Toad is a part of a generic species, no one is trying to hide it. The fact is that in this case, it doesn't really matter. Take Yoshi for example. Besides in the Mario Spin-off titles, was there ever just a single Yoshi? No, the player has always controlled a Yoshi. Never THE Yoshi. Yoshi always appears as a generic species, and yet he has his place on the Smash Bros. roster. Why does the idea seem so ridiculous in Toad's case? Honestly, I'd like to know. It really baffles me..

Now, I know someone will argue that, by this logic, Goomba and Koopa are appropriate choices for a future Smash. This is not true... they have appeared in the spin-off titles, but not enough to have "broken free" of generic species status yet. The fact that they appear as generic baddies in large numbers in the majority of Mario games also keeps them within that "generic species" group, unlike Toad and Yoshi.


What have we learned from this? The "generic species" argument is a worthless, ignorant argument against Toad. Don't try it.

-

One final point that I'd like to address is the argument that Toad is an unoriginal, un-unique (is that a word???) character that lacks moveset potential. I find this laughably false.

First of all, Toad is probably one of the most unique Mario characters not represented in Smash. I can't even fathom how Bowser Jr. supporters can use this argument against Toad when Bowser Jr. is basically a mini Bowser. What other major character in the Mario universe resembles Toad? Toad looks like the other Toads? What about Yoshi? You can call the one and only green Yoshi "Yoshi". The same for Toad. You can call the one and only Toad "Toad". Plus, like Yoshi, he's one among the other species.

Second, let's talk about Toad's playstyle and moveset potential. Being a small character, Toad is known for being very quick, but he is also known for seeming to have superhuman strength as seen in Super Mario Bros. 2. Being a small and quick yet strong character is something not seen often, and could present a unique play-style. Now what about his moveset?

Many moves from the games he has been playable in can be looked at in determining this. Notice that in the three games where he appears as a playable protagonist (Super Mario Bros. 2, Wario's Woods, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii), the gameplay involves lifting things and throwing/dropping them. This is one obvious ability that Toad could acquire; lifting and throwing characters. The charged high-jump from Super Mario Bros. 2 is another possibility for a move, a move that would probably be utilized as an Up-B recovery move. In Wario's Woods, Toad is given bombs to throw, another possible move. He could also use the new power-ups found in New Super Mario Bros. Wii as an assortment of abilities, not to mention abilities found in Mario spin-off titles. And don't forget that there are many moves that could be designed specially for Toad without making him seem out of character. With this in mind, plus the fact that there are many different elements throughout the Mario series from which he could borrow his moves, you can't deny that Toad does indeed have moveset potential.

Toad's moveset could be comprised of items and mushrooms with melee attacks. Why is it that people do not allow Toad to use items when Mario, Luigi and Diddy use items? Fire Flower? Banana? Why can't Toad use an Ice flower or the propeller cap? Some people think Toad has nothing new to bring but mushrooms. That is a useless statement. Just like Kirby and Pikachu, he's fast and strong but he has low jumps. He channels his power through mushrooms. There are hardly any characters that use a mushroom as a power. So you're saying Ridley will offer nothing but Tail whipping action?
.

What have we learned here? We know that Toad is an original, unique character that could have a different sort of play-style as well as having good potential for a moveset.

Another thing that annoys me is the fact that people think he won't get in simply because he's a moveset. Haven't I explained this before? This problem is SO EASY to solve. Paletuna is way harder because she can't be confused with another Paletuna or someone else. Toad can be replaced with another Toad. So for all you people who use this excuse, don't try it. It's futile and useless.

Why is it that people say that "Sakurai wouldn't break his back to make Toad". In fact, Toad is the easiest to make since there is a model for him already.

What have we learned here? The moveset excuse is useless. Don't try it.

-

How about a quick recap. What have we learned?
-Being iconic and significant to a series in general is more important than being important to a small fraction of the series' games. We've also learned that having a small role in any specific game(s) of the series really doesn't matter when compared to the character's overall significance to the series, as well as their popularity and familiarity among all gamers and many non-gamers alike
-The "generic species" argument is a worthless, ignorant argument against Toad. Don't try it.
-We know that Toad is an original, unique character that could have a different sort of play-style as well as having good potential for a moveset.
-The moveset excuse is useless. Don't try it.

 

[Luco]

Inb4berserkerstartsaheatedargument

But seriously, you are wrong!!!

READ THIS !!!

It's a good argument, however i see one loophole. In the argument against the moveset argument it tells us there can be another toad as peach's moveset. My only problem with that is that it kind of goes towards belaying the generic argument. Am i reading that wrong, or is there another solution? I'm entirely happy with toad being a playable character, but i do wish peach's move would be changed in the process?

 

[Berserker.]

Uhhh.... you should have posted the generic part only.

ACtually, the whole neutral B thing could be left with Toad since you could confuse Toad as another Toad. Lol

 

[Luco]

... Hang on, i don't quite get that.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I'm edited the post for clear understanding.

 

[Luco]

Oh no, i saw it, it's just... Ah, don't worry about it. I'm headed off to the arena for a little bit. ^^

 

[Berserker.]

ololololol.

formerly an intelligent post

Oasis, you argued with SSBF about the roster? How was it

 

[OmegaXXII]

People don't really see him that way, anti-Toad supporters usually only seen him as a generic, scared Toad as seen in Melee's adventure mode, which isn't much to go by if you are trying to argue his inclusion.

I'm curious though, who wrote that essay?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Off topic: What in the world is with the friggin' ponies everywhere?

 

[Gatlin]

It's just something they like to watch and use as avatars, we should try to stay on topic though, please.

 

[Berserker.]

People don't really see him that way, anti-Toad supporters usually only seen him as a generic, scared Toad as seen in Melee's adventure mode, which isn't much to go by if you are trying to argue his inclusion.

I'm curious though, who wrote that essay?

Spydr Enzo. He's one of the long timers in the SSB 4 thread but he doesn't post here.

I made some edits though

 

[Conviction]

@the stupid comment about GCC: It's not a problem of moving on LOL, it's a problem of you already look at the controller and tell you can't play competitively on it. Unless you can magically do all the options with control scheme and button placements on the Wii U like GCC please don't ever talk about the comparison again. At least the Wii+Nunchuck scheme had enough buttons to mimic the GCC and button placement wasn't far off like how it looks on the Tablet.

Yeah I already heard it's comfortable but comfortable/=/easy button accessibility. That's why we don't want to "move on"

 

[Luco]

Heh, it's funny 'cause i use the wii+nunchuk controller ^^

I wonder how the wii U will do it?

 

[Berserker.]

The GC controller was the best controller in my opinion but I can't wait to see how this tablet will be. Maybe they might make some changes.

However, this was coming I guess. I know this was a great controller but it was nintendo's decision. I'm looking forward to this controller.

 

[Oasis_S]

Toad, Shmoad.

Let's get back to Ridley.

So I kind of stayed up all night working on this. I'm hoping it proves that Ridley can definitely work in Smash without being "too big" or "too awkward."

MAINLY, his head is just smaller (His head is often about the same length as his body). His wings are small, but that's how they always are in the 2D games so this shouldn't be a surprise. Also I kind of balls'd it up at showing DEPTH, so keep in mind his wings are SORT OF perpendicular to the screen, so really they'd look larger in 3D. PLUS, like Charizard and Pit, his wings can grow while in use (Seriously, their wings do that in Brawl. Just noticed. lol). Now, you may think his tail is too short, but what you may or may not know is that in the 2D games (and now a 3D game thanks to Other M) Ridley's tail stretches. Because of its ability to extend, it doesn't have to be all that long to being with.

The text in the image shows my goals for Ridley's proportions. Can't exceed Bowser's total height, his head can't go higher than Ganondorf's, and he should be eye level with Samus. As a bonus, he's not even as wide as Bowser! Keep in mind that his tail and wings (for the most part) wouldn't have a hitbox while idle, so they don't cause him to be THAT huge of a target.

So yeah, I hope everyone is alright with that. Personally, I think he looks fine this way (I may be a TAD biased though). I guess if one were to think he still just looks "off" or "not right" then it just can't be helped. u3u

I thought I would create a properly scaled Ridley first, then illustrate a moveset, BUT IT TOOK ME LONG ENOUGH JUST TO MAKE THIS ONE IMAGE OF RIDLEY, so I guess I'll just type it up, lolol. u3u

Ridley for Smash!

 

[Berserker.]

You didn't have to make those drawings you know. No one here is an anti ridley and no one makes a big deal about size.

SIZE MATTERS NOT.

By the way, I think Ridley might have short ranged and fast attacks. The only long range attack he has would be attacks involving his tail

 

[Luco]

I loved the N64 controller. It was so quirky, but you could hold it multiple ways and if you held it the best way for you it just felt so RIGHT. I wish they'd have something cool like that.

Edits: Aww, i was hoping some of you would follow me to the arena like the stalkers you are.

 

[Conviction]

Heh, it's funny 'cause i use the wii+nunchuk controller ^^

I wonder how the wii U will do it?

The GC controller was the best controller in my opinion but I can't wait to see how this tablet will be. Maybe they might make some changes.

However, this was coming I guess. I know this was a great controller but it was nintendo's decision. I'm looking forward to this controller.

For all we know they might be making a new type of wired controller to go with the Wii U. I just find it awkward that they have the Wii U and it's backwards ability, but when the funny thing is a lot of the Wii games allowed the GCC as an option.

I only the GCC for smash (any fighting game) and mario kart wii. So when I throw in brawl in the Wii U like I throw Melle into the Wii, unlike the Wii on the Wii U they kicked out my GCC option? ...Interesting. I wonder if they thought about that.

Toad, Shmoad.

Let's get back to Ridley.

Keep in mind that his tail and wings (for the most part) wouldn't have a hitbox while idle, so they don't cause him to be THAT huge of a target.

See I had no problem with it until I read this. This is stupid. It's either all or nothing for the hurtbox. The slightest things in brawl that would make you go "WTF how'd hit me" is because the hurtboxes (with some characters hitboxes being disjointed) are so precise. You know while Wolf is in idle when he leans forward his whole hurtbox does too right?

All of his body should be his hurtbox unless you want to end up with him being like MK's hurtbox where MK's hurtbox is the smallest in game and he isn't the smallest character.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The following is a large post. Look inside the collapse tag to see the post.

Spoiler

Hey guys, I'm working on a blog on boss characters and I want to know what characters you like in this list. Also I need help with ideas in some of the genres (Donkey Kong, Pokemon, etc). This is what I got so far. The ones being picked with have a lot more details about them.

Mario
- King Boo
- Koopaling Gauntlet
- Kamek
Zelda
- Vaati
- Gohma
- Twinrova
Metroid
- Mother Brain
Kid Icarus
- Medusa
- Twinbellows
Starfox
- Andross
- Pigma
- General Scales
Kirby
- Dynabird
F-Zero
- Deathborn
Others
- Mike Ty…Mr. Dream (Punch Out)
- Condor (Ice Climbers)
- Ashnard (Fire Emblem)

I did mention the following characters as bosses...

Classic Mode
Master Hand
Crazy Hand

Adventure Mode
Super Mario
King Boo

Donkey Kong
Tiki Tong

The Legend of Zelda
Stallord

Metroid
Metroid Prime

Kirby
Galacta Knight
Nightmare

Pokemon
Kyurem

EarthBound / Mother
Porky

Kid Icarus
Twinbellows

Sonic the Hedgehog
Egg Viper

Final Fantasy
Bahamut

What do you mean by this list? As playable characters? Anyway here's what I like (in Red)

Also I'd suggest

Fire Emblem:
The Black Knight

Pokemon:
Giovanni

F-Zero:
Black Shadow

DK:
King. K. Rool

I think he was referring to characters who would only appear as bosses and not playables.

Toad can't be in SBB because he is used in peach's special.

A lousy excuse, considering that it could've just been a generic Toad. Remember, THE Toad's clothing scheme is NOT unique.

@Barbasol

Conker would never get in. They practically disowned his game.

I thought that was because Rare is owned by Microsoft or whatever now? I'd love to see Banjo and Kazooie, but...

Taken in context you would realize I said in the condition RARE was still owned by Nintendo, which it isn't. Conker went awkwardly lewd shortly into the end of the N64's lifespan, so true, even if they'd stayed, who knows.

Even if Nintendo still owned the rights to Rare, Conker is no longer in an acceptable position to be in Smash Bros.. Conker's Bad Fur Day really messed him up.

Banjo and Kazooie, on the other hand, would've been acceptable, since none of their games went over the E10+ rating.

 

[Luco]

Btw tomorrow i'll probably put up that post that my computer crashed on.

That's interesting, i never knew that about MK. But do you think that means they'll do him in the next one like that?

 

[Berserker.]

The N64 controller was alright. It just feels awkward holding it.

I'm looking forward to this Wii U controller. Not for smash but for other games. It has a lot of uses on games like scanning in metroid, an item menu in other games, maps, etc.

For all we know they might be making a new type of wired controller to go with the Wii U. I just find it awkward that they have the Wii U and it's backwards ability, but when the funny thing is a lot of the Wii games allowed the GCC as an option.

I only the GCC for smash (any fighting game) and mario kart wii. So when I throw in brawl in the Wii U like I throw Melle into the Wii, unlike the Wii on the Wii U they kicked out my GCC option? ...Interesting. I wonder if they thought about that.

I prefer using wiimote for Mario Kart Wii because it's probably one of those games where in I feel like using the wiimote more than the GC despite the GC being easier to use. I still use GC in smash bros brawl. There's this one guy. He uses Snake and he places well. He's also one of the best snakes if not, the best Snake so far and he uses the wiimote and nunchuk (UltimateRazer).

 

[Conviction]

Yeah I know who you mean. That's why I said before at least the Wiichuck gave you all the options the GCC did.

Problem comes with 30-100+ wireless controllers in one venue though...

LOL opps didn't see you say Razer.

@Luco: Probably not, just like how Snake won't have the ******** broken disjoints in his moves. Idk what happened with MK but the excuse for Snake was he was modeled bigger at first but they decided to shrink him close to cut time. Idk how you could possibly miss someone getting hit 2 tail lengths from the actual character. LOL they fixed his hurtboxes but not the hitboxes.