Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia! This is Halloween! Town Wins!!!!!!

[Dooms]

Read 450. I SAID I THINK CELLO IS PLAYING SCUMMY. He was one of the people I listed in my scum list AND 456. Does that not give you a hint at anything?

You can get an answer about Tiger tomorrow. I'm not reading back to page like 6 at 5 am for someone that's trying to trick me into messing up hardcore. >_> Seriously? Ughh 5amrage

 

[Xivii]

Die .

 

[Xivii]

Kill Joey.

 

[Swiss]

Glad to see we're lynching Seph.

I agree that Joey would be a bad lynch.

 

[Swiss]

Unvote Vote Seph

 

[X1-12]

Blah blah blah where is chuckie etc etc

Gaiz. Unless you think the entire scum group are lurking, all 5 of them, then DON't Pursue inactives. Its bloody Christmas for gods sake.

Seph should die, Zen next.

@GBoy: Pick one of the above two and place your vote on them. We need to get this lynch through before inactivity forces a NL due to new years.

@Everyone else. Do it. Vote either Seph or Zen. Joey is vig bait at worst so leave him for now

Unvote
Vote: Seph

^For Emphasis!!!

 

[Swiss]

Vanz is actually V/LA and Kat is mad busy IRL. So don't expect much from them for a while.

 

[Two Pichus One Pic]

S2/UTDZac/Chuckie It would be wonderful if you all could talk more. Seph/Gova too, please. How do you all feel about me, gord, seph, tandora, and pichu?

Why did you pick these people?

I don't think inactivity on Kat's behalf is necessarily a scum behavior b/c he wouldn't post this way town or scum if he's busy irl.

 

[Two Pichus One Pic]

ebwop: To clarify, why did you ask how they felt about "[Joey], gord, seph, tandora, and [me]?"

 

[Gova]

Gova since you're online, can you post something?

/Christmas

To answer your question from earlier about who I'd be willing to lynch: Seph or Tiger
Unvote Vote: Seph

Not seeing your Joey hate. And I don't understand where its coming from. I think he just over-reacts to things.

Because I don't know how to handle V/LA honestly. And you all were talking about inactivity a while ago and I didn't get to contribute to it :/.

S2/UTDZac/Chuckie It would be wonderful if you all could talk more. Seph/Gova too, please. How do you all feel about me, gord, seph, tandora, and pichu?

town, town, scum, null, null

 

[Kataefi]

omg so sorry guys! I'm reading/catching up now btw and hopefully I'll get something up tonight/tomorrow - I'm investing more time in another game because it's at a critical stage but I'll be sure to be caught up with this one very soon.

 

[Rockin]

Gova, what's your reason of wanting to lynch Seph? I can't help but feel you just jumped on the bandwagon cause it's the most convient

FOS: Gova

Srs, are we all lynching Seph because his lack of content and the fact that he's useless?

 

[TigerWoods]

Actually I'm going to agree with Rockin here. I don't understand what's scummy about him... you all seem to be using an OMGUS argument...

What is so worthwhile about voting him? Would we get any information for tomorrow were he to turn up town or mafia?

And @ Tan... if it were beneficial for him to be dead, why don't we just let a night action take care of him? Wouldn't this be a waste of town deliberation?

 

[X1-12]

Seph's play is wishy washy and very weak, if he made some solid stances he would look better

Lynch list:
D1 Seph
D2 Zen
D3 MK

Seph for his terribad play. I asked him if he thought Cello/GBoy was a bus and he said "ooh well it could be, it might not be, but it might be..."

Zen for just playing all over the damn place, Ive seen him as town in Halo and his play is not like this at all

MK for his buddying, loads of fluff and parroting all in his really large #562 That post could have been just as effective and probably 1/4 as long

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@GBoy: Pick one of the above two and place your vote on them. We need to get this lynch through before inactivity forces a NL due to new years.

K. You're online. Convince me that Joey (and to a lesser extent Tiger) isn't the play. I agree that SephMasa is a good outlook, but tell me why Joey isn't being pursued toMorrow if Seph is dead toDay.

 

[Dooms]

Pichu because we were all mentioned to be scummy at one point for one reason or another, and if they answer, then that means we're gaining some activity from them!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I agree that Joey would be a bad lynch.

U dumb mang. Either that or skimmin.

If I do you the favour of lynching Seph, you'll do me the favour of rereading Joey during the Night. All you gotta do is stop ignoring his crap like I know you tend to do with some people, but c'mon mang. Don't make me do some J AtE on youz.

 

[Tandora]

And @ Tan... if it were beneficial for him to be dead, why don't we just let a night action take care of him? Wouldn't this be a waste of town deliberation?

I don't believe in depending on night actions especially vigs until I see them in action.

If you have a better candidate, then step up with that person. Give me scum reads instead of "This guy is scum" or "this guy is town". WHY is person z that alignment to you? I want solid facts here people. Not intuition, not he's my friend, not that's how he played before. Show me in this game why you think someone should be lynched. You give me solid information like that and I may back you.

 

[X1-12]

Joeys play reminds me of like vocal in MM who i spent ages going after and he was just AtE ing and being a noob the whole way through, I think joey is in the same boat

 

[Swiss]

U dumb mang. Either that or skimmin.

If I do you the favour of lynching Seph, you'll do me the favour of rereading Joey during the Night. All you gotta do is stop ignoring his crap like I know you tend to do with some people, but c'mon mang. Don't make me do some J AtE on youz.

I'll do better. I'll re-read him toDay. But I skimmed him and saw crap as 'crap' not 'scummy crap'. Bad play itself isn't an indication of scumminess, otherwise you'd already have been lynched.

 

[Swiss]

Joeys play reminds me of like vocal in MM who i spent ages going after and he was just AtE ing and being a noob the whole way through, I think joey is in the same boat

This, Gord.

See?

X1 has good reads for once.

 

[Tandora]

Joeys play reminds me of like vocal in MM who i spent ages going after and he was just AtE ing and being a noob the whole way through, I think joey is in the same boat

It's a start. What exactly is similar? What about the fact Joey hasn't voted but has thrown suspicion around? Why are you drawing conclusions based on a completely different player from a completely different game? Is Joey town noob or scum noob? Why?

 

[X1-12]

I have three people who I find more scummy than him and would be more damaging if they were scum so forgive me for not really caring about figuring out whether joey is actually scum or not right now. I'm just pointing out that I don't particularly think he is right now

 

[I voted yes on Spear Pillar]

Spear Pillar - Posting up your town and scum lists is a bad idea regardless cause you're just mapping out where to exploit town as a whole. Yeah, Mafia can possibly try to figure it out. Why make it easier for them?

You're missing a ton of information to analyze so mafia... has to do slightly more work to figure out something that they can easily figure out anyway? Town is already at a major information gap, why miss out on a ton of useful information just because it makes it slightly easier for scum to figure out something that they can figure out anyway? It's utility to town far surpasses it's utility to scum, primarily because it gives new information to town while only distilling existing information for scum.

And it's hard to ask inactives/you questions when...well....you know, you're not active. >: (

And asking questions with lynch pressure behind you is how you GET people active. It also tells you who is constantly watching the thread and who is simply not around based on response times, if at all.

Also, as a general rule, wagons are incredibly important information to analyze therefore if you gotta get rid of them, using a vig is far more effective.

I was anyway.

What do you think of Tan and Pichu? I know your 'stances' but I want a brief run down of what you think about their plays. Talk about Seph, he's a likely lynch.

Gord is town, I'd stake my rep on that.

I also agree wholeheartedly on the town list point, as you've probably noticed. I like you this game.

After reading up on Tand her posts seem like a whole lot of... nothing. Lot of writing, but precious few useful things said. Definite fake contribution vibe, probably scum.


Sephiroth's masamune is probably town, granted his contributions have been limited, but his posts are the exact opposite of tandora's in that he tends to say a lot in very little. Also I don't like people claiming he said that both cello and gordito are scum when he only they could be scum together from the beginning, essentially that the argument was a nulltell on their relative alignment.



As far as why Gordito's scum, I have a lot of trouble believing a townie would say something as blatantly distracting as his "personal business" story. The only reason I believe cello is town after taking that bait is because it fits his town play to a T in spite of it being ridiculously stupid.

Why are you so sure he's town?

Seph's play is wishy washy and very weak, if he made some solid stances he would look better

Lynch list:
D1 Seph
D2 Zen
D3 MK

Seph for his terribad play. I asked him if he thought Cello/GBoy was a bus and he said "ooh well it could be, it might not be, but it might be..."

Care to justify that assertion? I don't read anything he says as asserting that they are definitely scumbuddies.



Feeling more unsure about x-1, so not willing to let him decide who's allowed to be a lynch target atm. I like this play.

Vote: Tandora

 

[Rockin]

Thing is is that Seph is my witch homie and Town neighborhood guy, Zeldaborne.

I am his homie, Helgamine.

Now incase anyone gets confused with the neighbor role with Mason, they're about the same. The only difference is that when you're UNSURE if your said partner is really a townie.

Why do I still want seph alive? I need him so as to try and test Tiger's ability. If I was cast off like Mentos, I'm assuming I'd hardly be affective, cause I can still talk to my mason parter behind the scenes of the Days. My only real concern is a possible restriction in terms of how I post or actually getting NKed. Oh, I picked Cello cause I was serious of what I said. We wouldn't lose much except a role

I'm even taken a step further by not insulting/making fun of Gord (though now I'm kinda debating right now if I should do that. Two unknown outcomes might be really confusing to town).

Neither of us have powers (least, that's what seph told me).

I was also serious about Seph possibly playing better on D2. I feel he has that Mentos thing about him (meaning he starts gathering steam/shows his real alignment playstyle on D2 and over).

 

[X1-12]

Care to justify that assertion? I don't read anything he says as asserting that they are definitely scumbuddies.

What assertion? I'm talking about how seph should die because he is unable to take stances and has been playing wishywashy

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

K.

Unvote

Vote SephMasa

I can't see Joey being the same as MM Vocal.

I'll do better. I'll re-read him toDay. But I skimmed him and saw crap as 'crap' not 'scummy crap'. Bad play itself isn't an indication of scumminess, otherwise you'd already have been lynched.

Tell me what makes me scum. I know you know.

K. Now tell me that that's not what Joey's doing.

I guess it's just that I see my scum self in Joey this game. But I'll show you guys what I'm talking about later, like toMorrow, I guess.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Triple or quad ninja'd too lazy to scroll up to see.

 

[Rockin]

You're missing a ton of information to analyze so mafia... has to do slightly more work to figure out something that they can easily figure out anyway? Town is already at a major information gap, why miss out on a ton of useful information just because it makes it slightly easier for scum to figure out something that they can figure out anyway? It's utility to town far surpasses it's utility to scum, primarily because it gives new information to town while only distilling existing information for scum.

Because putting a list on D1 about how you feel about person A and person B is merely not garanteed, nor is it good quality (when I say this, I mean like how you view your people and whatnot). It's just unhelpful to town to post who you believe to be town. Scum list, fine. One or TWO members you feel is town? Fine. a list of everything? No helpful unless we're down D3 or something.

And asking questions with lynch pressure behind you is how you GET people active. It also tells you who is constantly watching the thread and who is simply not around based on response times, if at all.

Also, as a general rule, wagons are incredibly important information to analyze therefore if you gotta get rid of them, using a vig is far more effective.

I was being pretty lenient last week on christmas cause I knew everyone was busy with their christmas-like activities with family. No need to prod/pressure when it's entirely legit. If it wasn't that week, I'd be prodding inactives a little bit earlier then what I'm doing now.

And yes, those wagons are good, but it's not like we'd get them to talk if they're legitimatly are away from their computer. It's like provoking a dead animal to attack you.

 

[Rockin]

Guys, warning

seph is at L-3 >>

 

[Xivii]

-Like Pillar more kinda.

-Gord why did you switch to Seph and then continue to disagree with the wagon over Joey.

 

[I voted yes on Spear Pillar]

Because putting a list on D1 about how you feel about person A and person B is merely not garanteed, nor is it good quality (when I say this, I mean like how you view your people and whatnot). It's just unhelpful to town to post who you believe to be town. Scum list, fine. One or TWO members you feel is town? Fine. a list of everything? No helpful unless we're down D3 or something.

And why is getting stances so we can draw connections unhelpful? This is mafia nothing is ever guaranteed, but town lists aren't useful because they're guaranteed. Town lists are useful because they help us figure out connections (along with scum lists), especially when one of their most important functions is looking at what changed from the last town list, allowing you to figure out what caused the change.

In other words, town/scumlists are most important for figuring out whether the person who posted them is scum or not.

I was being pretty lenient last week on christmas cause I knew everyone was busy with their christmas-like activities with family. No need to prod/pressure when it's entirely legit. If it wasn't that week, I'd be prodding inactives a little bit earlier then what I'm doing now.

And yes, those wagons are good, but it's not like we'd get them to talk if they're legitimatly are away from their computer. It's like provoking a dead animal to attack you.

Then why push for a lynch? You gave major reasons not to pressure or wagon inactives here, yet for some reason you targeted me for a lynch because I was inactive. During Christmas week I might add.

Your reasoning is inconsistent rockin.

unvote, vote: rockin

What assertion? I'm talking about how seph should die because he is unable to take stances and has been playing wishywashy

He seems plenty willing to take stances when he's here, his presence is just limited atm.


Why's he wishy washy? The only thing in your case that would classify him as wishy-washy is backing off the "gordito and cello are both scum point", and I don't see him ever making that point, from the beginning he seemed to be opposing the prevailing view that they couldn't both be scum.

Granted he could be trying to set them both up for mislynches, but I doubt it, opposing the town consensus like that, especially when cello is included, reeks of townie recklessness.

 

[TigerWoods]

Rockin, I will not use my ability on you, so if you want to test the not making fun of Gord thing then by all means go ahead.

I have a target in mind, and hopefully it'll answer a question or two.

 

[Rockin]

And why is getting stances so we can draw connections unhelpful? This is mafia nothing is ever guaranteed, but town lists aren't useful because they're guaranteed. Town lists are useful because they help us figure out connections (along with scum lists), especially when one of their most important functions is looking at what changed from the last town list, allowing you to figure out what caused the change.

I just never liked posting up a complete list. Again, it gives too many opportunities for Mafia to try and manipulate it to their advantage. I can see it work better on maybe D3, but it's unhelpful to me early game.

Then why push for a lynch? You gave major reasons not to pressure or wagon inactives here, yet for some reason you targeted me for a lynch because I was inactive. During Christmas week I might add.

Your reasoning is inconsistent rockin.

unvote, vote: rockin

Wrong again

I'm not sure what time is it where you're from, but I posted that on December 26th at 12 AM. That's on a sunday, which is the new week. Before the 25th, I was not targeting any inactives and was putting my main focus on Tandora. I only started going after you and would've went after MK had he not been posting recently. Gova was also a target, but you was my main one cause you only posted once or twice. Which reminds me....

Zac is also not on good terms with me because of his inactivity. Argh, wtf man? D:<

 

[Xivii]

Rockin why are you testing the not making fun of Gord? It doesn't tell us anything.

 

[Rockin]

Rockin, I will not use my ability on you, so if you want to test the not making fun of Gord thing then by all means go ahead.

I have a target in mind, and hopefully it'll answer a question or two.

Any reason why not me, Tigerwoods? Just curious.

 

[Xivii]

Also Rockin is Pillar scum or town?

 

[I voted yes on Spear Pillar]

I just never liked posting up a complete list. Again, it gives too many opportunities for Mafia to try and manipulate it to their advantage. I can see it work better on maybe D3, but it's unhelpful to me early game.

You keep asserting this, but you have yet to give any reasoning as to why.

How explicitly does it assist scum in manipulating town, and why does this outweigh the advantages of giving concrete stances and illustrating what causes those stances to change in terms of getting reads on town members?

Wrong again

I'm not sure what time is it where you're from, but I posted that on December 26th at 12 AM. That's on a sunday, which is the new week. Before the 25th, I was not targeting any inactives and was putting my main focus on Tandora. I only started going after you and would've went after MK had he not been posting recently. Gova was also a target, but you was my main one cause you only posted once or twice. Which reminds me....

Zac is also not on good terms with me because of his inactivity. Argh, wtf man? D:<

And how is this substantially different from targeting people during christmas? It's 12 am on christmas night when people are probably still at their christmas parties, what would make people more likely to be able to post substance then as opposed to 29 minutes earlier?

Maybe I could understand it if you gave it several hours, it would be reasonable if you waited until maybe the middle of the next day, but your justification is pure legalism here without an ounce of substance.


I like my vote here.





Oh, totally forgot, gordito, obvious furry is obvious.

 

[Rockin]

Rockin why are you testing the not making fun of Gord? It doesn't tell us anything.

Originally I didn't want to make fun of Gord. I was actually wondering why people were making fun of him and debating on 'testing' it. It was then like a few pages later I decided to look at the beginning of D1 and saw that it DID say to make fun of Gord. I was a bit interested and decided to see what'd happen.

Also Rockin is Pillar scum or town?

Too early to tell, but I'm not getting any scum vibes. We just seem to mainly have a conflict on how to play the game. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who feels about Tandora's flavor thing (I remember MK also talking about this). He's being active, which is a good thing cause that was my main beef with him.

Not much prone to lynching him, but I'd keep an eye on him

Zac and Gova are my main targets. Especially Gova.

Lack of post, not to mention jumping on the seph wagon so quickly. Not to mention he doesn't want to give of an insight to who he feels is scum...and lack of contribution. >:

 

[Rockin]

You keep asserting this, but you have yet to give any reasoning as to why.

How explicitly does it assist scum in manipulating town, and why does this outweigh the advantages of giving concrete stances and illustrating what causes those stances to change in terms of getting reads on town members?

Because of the fact at how mafia can easily take advantage. It all comes down to

1) who the townies are
2) who the Mafias are
3) How easily presuaded townies are

Mafias can trick Townies to believing them if the lure is good enough. They can presuade townies to be on their side, especially if they KNOW they're in good terms with them. Of course, townies would say about one or two people they like regardless and about half the time it's a Mafia. But...it's just a bad idea. Giving out a complete list maps out what Mafia can do to that said person. It opens to too many backstabs and manipulation, and that can be done with more executed night actions or framing a person.

I shouldn't really have to explain this, really. It's just generally a bad idea and it makes some townies look really bad later on in the game.

And how is this substantially different from targeting people during christmas? It's 12 am on christmas night when people are probably still at their christmas parties, what would make people more likely to be able to post substance then as opposed to 29 minutes earlier?

Maybe I could understand it if you gave it several hours, it would be reasonable if you waited until maybe the middle of the next day, but your justification is pure legalism here without an ounce of substance.

If you're gonna be really technical about the time thing and lynch me based on this terms, then my god you suck =/

I like to start out asap. I was up during that night, so instead of me sleeping and then posting about the pressure on he early morning/late afternoon (I have work from 10AM to 6PM), I posted whenever I felt like posting, which was that time.