Official BBR Recommended Rule List 3.0

[Vermanubis]

I gotta agree with Verm here.

I was shocked to see Big Blue not on the CP list. I mean the ground is easily avoidable, just don't get spiked or fall off one of the F-Zero machines. There's a Brawl strategy known as "zoning" which guarantees you will never be forced into a bad spot by the other player.

^

This.

 

[MarKO X]

*shrugs* I didn't vote for it, but I was told otherwise. Do me a favor and make a video of that so I can use it in the next discussion and then people won't whine and ***** at me that I have no evidence.

wait, so you mean you guys try to make community wide decisions without fully testing stuff out?



no wonder no one follows this. ggs.

 

[Vermanubis]

This.


I was talking with my friend on AiM and he was saying how this thread is making a lot of people agree with people they don't want to be agreeing with. Take me and Verm. He made a combo video and based it around matchup ratios he made up, so I thought he was an idiot. I bring up his made up Tink MU, argue with him, and realize I couldn't give a **** what this guy thinks.

Here we are, both *****ing about these rules. Hell, if this was a less important issue, I might disagree with him just to fit my own persona. Since it isn't, and it REALLY isn't, I support this guy and almost feel a weird...yet strangely practical bro love for him.

Who in God's name are you?! D:

But be careful, Kage might tell you off.

 

[Sharky]

to people saying giving MK more cp's won't make him worse:

YES IT DOES: Now MK can have reliable counterpicks for every character, whereas before the obvious choices at least had certain characters that could also fair well there. Now MK's list of CP's is so diverse, he's got something against everyone. Does this make more sense to you?

 

[KageMurphy]

Who in God's name are you?! D:

But be careful, Kage might tell you off.

Dude, you're just lame as hell with your posts lmao, don't get mad I pointed it out. You don't have to acknowledge it but its true.

 

[Vermanubis]

to people saying giving MK more cp's won't make him worse:

Embrace the ***********, Sharky. Maybe it'll get MK banned. Maybe the BBR's MO is far more clandestine than we know. *pensive*

 

[Vermanubis]

Dude, you're just lame as hell with your posts lmao, don't get mad I pointed it out. You don't have to acknowledge it but its true.

Yes, master.

 

[sunshade]

to people saying giving MK more cp's won't make him worse:

I am not trying to say it will make him worse, I am trying to say it will make others better to a larger degree than it makes him better (effectively making him worse by comparison).

Its like we are giving metaknight a plus 1 buff and everyone else a plus 2 buff. Its the same as giving metaknight a minus one buff and nobody else anything.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Guys, we need to stop thinking this. This isn't some plot to get MK banned. They aren't going to ban MK. They just aren't. They're trying to get us to stop playing brawl. They're clearly all very tired of their jobs but the Melee BR is ready to go.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Atomsk, if you have such a huge problem with the BBR's knowledge of characters or the game, you're more than welcome to share your opinion with me or anyone else at any time. If masters of their characters like you don't share information / add to discussions, that's unfortunate-- but discussion will go on without you. I'd prefer as much participation as possible, but lately that hasn't been happening. If you aren't willing to discuss, you can't be mad at what gets talked about when you openly refuse to participate in the past.



I made the slope CG test video because no one else would, and it's mostly accurate. It wasn't even used as "final proof" or "empirical evidence". In fact, it was posted with a huge disclaimer that said it was anything but that. It was merely some example material to start with for discussion.

Again, the videos being posted here out of context is less than desirable. I figured people would appreciate the information, though.

lol like I said, I didn't vote for it. Doesn't matter to me. But a video would greatly help in evidence against the stage. Though part of the evidence to the contrary was that DDD can only go up the one side, so staying on the other prevents that.

Edit: Believe it or not I'm not the entire BBR, and can't control minds, though I wish every day that I could.

Yeah exactly. Personally, I voted against YI:M, Green Greens, and a few others. I voted in favor of Distant Planet and some others though. But that's neither here nor there; I did the slope tests and "gay" stages tournament from as objective of a standpoint as I could STRICTLY AS A FIELD TEST TO HELP FOSTER DISCUSSION.

In the end, the collective vote of the BBR is what matters, so it doesn't matter that I opposed certain stages. I support the voting process and its conclusions.

And you know what? If I want to run a tournament and ban Green Greens, that's just fine and dandy. It's my decision as a TO. This has been the case since the beginning of time. And for the millionth time, the ruleset 2.0 had almost the EXACT SAME stage list.

They just aren't. They're trying to get us to stop playing brawl. They're clearly all very tired of their jobs but the Melee BR is ready to go.

There is no underlying agenda of any kind, other than to be fair, objective, and open to discussion. None of us get payed for this. It is not a job. We do it in order to help the community as best we can in whatever free time we have. It's rather rude to flame so extensively, given that.

 

[Vermanubis]

Guys, we need to stop thinking this. This isn't some plot to get MK banned. They aren't going to ban MK. They just aren't. They're trying to get us to stop playing brawl. They're clearly all very tired of their jobs but the Melee BR is ready to go.

Agreed with strange man who knows me from some other time.

 

[DaomarIsBear]

Lol, we should go ask the M-BR to make a ruleset and stagelist for us.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Atomsk, if you have such a huge problem with the BBR's knowledge of characters or the game, you're more than welcome to share your opinion with me or anyone else at any time. If masters of their characters like you don't share information / add to discussions, that's unfortunate-- but discussion will go on without you. I'd prefer as much participation as possible, but lately that hasn't been happening. If you aren't willing to discuss, you can't be mad at what gets talked about when you openly refuse to participate in the past.

I'd always much rather go to bed than discuss this stuff lol. Besides I'm sorry that I assume some people aren't blatantly moronic. Anyway off to bed.

 

[.AC.]

the bbr is doing the opposite of what's supposed to do, i think everyone should join the tijuana backroom, PM me for admission.

 

[lordhelmet]

I don't see why we aren't using the Tijuana ruleset :S

Or better yet, this

 

[sunshade]

When you're in a really intense match, often times you are not looking at the background, you shouldn't required to be in the first place. Within a second of not looking at the BG you could be hit by a bomb at 50% and lose a stock.

I see the word should in there. That makes this an opinion correct? Ok than, let me respond with an opinion myself.

It takes skill to be able to adapt to the surroundings and stage hazards therefore we should allow it.

Regardless the cannon balls are a very small issue with the stage compared to the possible implications of rudder campings status as stalling or not.

These changes are pretty unfair IMO. The floaty transformation basically gives MK a free KO with nado (which KOs at 0% IIRC). The electric transformation is absolutely ridiculous with the treadmill ground.

Its really hard for someone with as slow an aerial mobility as metaknight to maneuver himself properly to exploit the wind phase. In addition your are incorrect in your 0% analysis of nado killing at 0%.

Again, why is the stage making things floaty for 10 seconds or so less fair than a stage giving a character an advantage 100% of the time?

Unless that character happens to be Falco who is forcing you to approach with lasers. He can even boost pivot grab you from a dthrow if you are facing away from the blast zone at the slant and continue to CG -> fsmash you for the KO.

I remind you his chain-grab is percentage based and as a result if you are willing to play safe to the right of him you are able at least trade hits with him until you get to the percent in which he cannot chain-grab you.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Agreed with strange man who knows me from some other time.

Us two are more similar than each of us know.

 

[.AC.]

I don't see why we aren't using the Tijuana ruleset :S

Or better yet, this

yeah the tijuana ruleset is so much better, too bad nobody has joined the tijuana backroom yet, if we get enough people maybe we can convince people to use it over the bbr ruleset =P

 

[Sinister Slush]

Instead of BAWWWING over the new Stagelist/Ruleset, And slap the happy **** out of all the BBR for making MK both a bigger target for other characters and also a small Advantage Over him. Just go complain about snake or Diddy while you're at it.

 

[Dabuz]

Just a few questions dabuz.



Wouldn't the player that sees the bombs coming despite the match being intense be a better player in regards to his ability to focus on multiple variables while maintaining a main focus?

but keep in mind in an intense match there are already so many variables and things to keep in mind, predictions, positions, possible risks/rewards, how a character can/ can't react to a situation, general aspects of stage, the human mind can only process so much at a single time, i'll use halberd for an example, in a slow campy match the claw is very easy to be seen and isn't a problem, but a lot of times in a match there can be so much going on that the claw, even if seen, cannot be accounted for by a player because there is already so much happening, so the player gets hits for like 13% and now that situation is probably over, with bombs, even if most of the time they avoided, the situations where too much is going on to even have time to notice the background is when a 60% kill from the stage is just something that shouldn't be happening

What is your definition for unfair?

when a strategy can be applied and there are no counter strategies or the only counter strategies are very high risk-low reward or rely solely on one players inability to perform the strategy making a player able to accurately perform the strategy nigh-untouchable

also, just a note, the wooden thing that pops out on the boat, its very hard to see even in a slow match and has a tendency to just randomly pop sometimes

Why is the stage being floaty unfair?

the players lose control over one of the characters biggest aspects, and in a lot of situations some characters can use moves that are now unavoidable or unpublishable because the stage changes for just a few seconds, while in any regular gravity situation, mind games could avoid and punish those moves, tbqh, this is the least horrible aspect of this stage and isn't what bothers me about it

Why is water camping unfair?

31.7% of the cast cannot physically counter it, almost a third, about 13 characters, so on that stage 13 characters cannot stop a strategy that can be applied for 7/8 time the stage is played is basically what is being said, and even for characters who can stop it, its high risk-medium/low reward normally


The physics changes only last about 10 seconds. Is the stage giving an advantage for 10 seconds really worse than a static stage which gives an advantage 100% of the time?

well, lets see, 10 seconds=1/48 of a match, in those 10 seconds some characters can almost be guaranteed to take a stock if they have the tools to abuse the stage change, now, apply this multiple times per stage, and don't you see a problem with all these opportunities for basically free stocks to be taken?

If your character is not broken on the stage why does it matter?

my character is olimar, therefore on luigi's mansion he is broken as hell on the stage, its worse than when MK CPs a great stage for him

What is wrong with abusing the stage?

well, the difference is, the entire match will be more about taking advantage of a stage than actually playing using the characters tool-set, essentially the stage will be more important than the character, that is the same problem introducing items would have to this game

If you are standing on the right side of the hill, the left side of the leafy platforms/base, or the right side of teh leafy palatform/base then the chain grabs are of zero threat to you.

so wait, you ARE AGREEING that the characters essentially cannot even play on half of the stage because of instant stock loss? so despite how much of the stage can mean instant death, and also that means the character can move to very little spots while the opposing CG characters can attack from all angles and then run to those safe spots, its still legal...

Many of the characters who chain grab up the hill are also reliant on specific percentages for the grab to work so the left side of the hill can also become safe later on.

bull ****, DDD's cgs and affected by %s and neither are yoshi's, IIRC only falco's is truly affected by %s

even if a few characters can get out if they have high enough %s, tha means a majority couldn't

The camping under the leaf has yet to be proven to be broken so why should we allow a knee-jerk reaction to dictate our stage policy?

ok, i will be so glad to CP this at the next tourney i go to and just abuse it with every character that can, trust me, i have played a lot of matches on here because i was actually curious myself to its legality a long time ago and this leaf is the icing on the cake, if it was a fall through leaf then the story would be different, but as it stands, the only ways to attack a character under it are from the air, or by the upper part of the slope, with such limited options its a perfect camping spot



Something does not over centralize unless it is unbeatable. It is once it becomes unbeatable that the game becomes a "do X or go home" in which case everyone does X and the game becomes saturated with tactic X.

wrong, it doesn't have to be unbeatable to over-centralize the meta-game, look at ICs, their cgs over-centralize their metagame, but they are still beatable, when there was no ledge grab limit for mk, it was beatable but there were players winning by just centralizing on that

This is targeted at everyone not just you.

Why is it ok to ban grabbing the ledge?



Its a fundamental part of the game in the same way standing on stage and jumping are.



The fact that we treat it differently is shocking to me.

A characters ledge game is no different than a characters ground or air game.

remember when MK could win by getting any % lead and then literally just being at the ledge for 7 minutes? cause i sure do, next you will say scrooging is a completely fair strategy because gliding under the stage is part of the game, games undergo certain rules and restrictions because there are aspects of the game that can be abused too perfectly

responses in red



also, no one here knows anything about how an oli vs. mk match goes in terms of CPs...NO ONE

 

[Mikachiru]

What's the Tijuana ruleset?

 

[Xyless]

Hey guys, Brawl Minus and Brawl Plus are waiting for you if you have complaints about the rules.

 

[Vermanubis]

Instead of BAWWWING over the new Stagelist/Ruleset, And slap the happy **** out of all the BBR for making MK both a bigger target for other characters and also a small Advantage Over him. Just go complain about snake or Diddy while you're at it.

I agree. Planking Snake is tough *****. What should we do about this pervasive problem? **** sharking Diddys.

 

[lordhelmet]

Dang, Dabuz just ***** me and sunshade.

I approve.

 

[milesg2g]

Hey guys, Brawl Minus and Brawl Plus are waiting for you if you have complaints about the rules.

lolwut

Maybe because those 2 will never be picked up by MLG and they just simply aren't the game itself xD lol

 

[John12346]

I heard from a reliable source that a general MK discussion would a year after the previous one was locked. In other words, 3-4 months from now.

Can I at least get confirmation on that?

 

[.AC.]

What's the Tijuana ruleset?

http://fashiongamers.nicetopic.net/...e-reglas-de-tkd-para-ssbb-junio-2010-t258.htm

its in spanish, ill translate it later and put it up in the tijuana backroom (pm me if you want to join).

 

[Steam]

DON'T YOU KNOW THE SONG?

the voted for the last time bro :0

 

[Mikachiru]

Thank you AC. I'll look forward to that translation. :D

 

[$c@R!!]

So this idiot from BBR has taken Meta knights side....

we are so screwed....

 

[lordhelmet]

I'm pretty sure TKD has it on his AiB somewhere >_>

 

[.AC.]

I'm pretty sure TKD has it on his AiB somewhere >_>

he made it private to avoid criticism.

 

[Player-1]

its obv the bbr guys hate so they put uber gay stages just so he doesnt do very well ever again cuz obv they just want to skin him for his rich fur and amke a fur coat so they look all fancy like when they go in publik places wit there coats on, but ima get peta in here to poor blood all over all over yer heads so dat way u feel rlly guilty and make it so fd is only legal stage cuz fd is rlly flat and obv takes da most skill to puhlay on cuz all other stages are random and dumb stuff happens on dem and need to be banned 4ever, rainbow also takes uber amounts of skill and should be in its own section above neutral as super neutral and even tho fd is neutral, super neutral stages over ride it and u can only play on super neutral stages so ppl have 2 play on rainbow all day and peta will stop pooring blood on all yall.

 

[milesg2g]

I think we should all ignore it, if you know that TO's will ultimately ignore this ruleset.

Lets all just chillax and wait for them to realize their mistakes.

BayWatch is on btw

 

[Clai]

It's really not a fair rule. Why should they be awarded a win if the game says they lose / tie? There is no reason for it other than an arbitrary decision.

I use DeDeDe. I swallow-cide all the time. That doesn't mean that I should just be giving a win for getting one. If I am at 1 stock and my opponent is too, as a player, I understand the risk of them wiggling out just before the bottom.

Ganondorfs should understand the fact that their tie/loss is random.

You can still suicide kill just the same as you always do as long as it's not on the very last stock. There, you have to be careful. That makes sense-- there's no reason you should get a free with separate from the game's ruling just because you "ate them" or whatever.

We know its based on port. That doesn't mean he gets free wins. There's no reason that he should.

It means he gets to play RPS for ports just like Snakes do. That's what's fair. Its the Bowser's job to know what port he is in / counter pick ports in that same fashion.

No, you're making a horrible character better for no reason at all. There is no "deserved" win or "undeserved" win for a suicide kill. You are biased. The only thing there is to acknowlege is what the game does. It awards bowser on port and ganon randomly. That's just how it is.

We're not making a bad character worse, we're leaving a bad character as they were. As it should be. Its not for us to decide.

We don't say you can't gimp mario just because he has a bad recovery. This is the same thing. Bowser doesn't get auto wins if he lands a Klaw just because we wish he would or "think its right".

As much as I want to argue these points, as much as I want to point out about much this ruling undermines the intent of these moves, dumps on the concept of risk and reward, and throws out every concept of skill and position management all for an arbitrary game reading, the fact of the matter is that the results screen isn't going to change because we want it to. If you really want to fly in the face of common sense and go with the game reading instead of just looking at the strategies and see the clear message of intent, I can't argue with it. No amount of arguing is going to change the results screen.

After all, I love being punished for successfully carrying out strategies, that's why I main Ganon. I get to be punished for following a fundamental game mechanic (returning to the stage). G is for Ganon tier, guyz.

When will people just realize we can stop jumping through hoops if we ban the little fgt known as MK? lol\

And all I've seen from BBR members and BBR supporters is pure sophistry. I've yet to see one relevant point be made by anyone who supports this ruleset. They have extremely selective logic and are plagued by oversights and tunnel vision.

Actually, Verm, at no point were we ever jumping hoops just to keep Metaknight in the game. The BBR made it clear that there were to be no rules ostenisbly designed for better competitive gameplay but were realliy designed to keep MK in the game. In this regard, I applaud the BBR for not caving into the public demand and hopefully people can see that they make their decisions without any regard to MK at all.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Heading to bed, this is slowing down anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

There was no reason to change the rule about Bowser's Suicide Klaw. It's not GIVING him the victory. The victory was rightfully earned with the player's strategy.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Read this entire thread.

Not as entertaining as Inception. Definitely more entertaining than Bruno.

Being a guy who plays both offline and online, the stages don't surprise me that much (we play a "wacky" stage set in the OTL pretty much every other week.) However, I can see some validity in the animadversions for some stages.

PTAD--You know I would actually be for this stage if the cars behaved a bit more like they did on Mute City (I still don't know why that's banned in Melee, so someone please fill me in.) I know Isai said "Don't get hit" (*prepares for BPC reply* ), but mistiming a recovery or a block gets punished in all the wrong ways on this stage. The hazards are pretty prone to effing people over both ways.

Pirate Ship--See Dabuz's sentiments.

Luigi's--I don't care much, but if it's a problem (for those who BAAAAWWWWWW @ & ): Destroy the mansion! Get done, ya done!

Ledge grab limit should be reinstated, that is just tempting campfires to happen.

Ganoncide rule being removed is interesting: I wonder how the crap-tier mains plan to win without their suicide throw-downs? Only time will tell.

I do think that FD should be on the list for first three starters though.

Also, I'm not seeing the whole "Pick MK==great profit" with this rule set. I'd go to AlphaZealot for my "Who wins more" insider information, and if he tells me that MK will be dominant either way, he probably will be. In the A, we don't have much of a problem with the MK taking everything: In fact, we have two semi-OOS (Reflex and Kismet) who regularly take our WABA money, and they don't even play MK (Kismet sorta does, but enough nitpicking.)

Good shiz to the BBR. More transparency wouldn't hurt though. Just saying.

 

[z00ted]

Heading to bed, this is slowing down anyway.

Its 1:54 AM.
Wait until tomorrow.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I really don't see why people are complaining about " BBR members poor decision making skills"no one except tommy or avarice panda read my post a bit back. THE BBR CANNOT MAKE A DIFFERENT STAGE LIST WITH THE CURRENT BANNING POLICY. As much as I HATE these stages and will never attend a tournament with some of them over others I do not object to the BBR making them legal due to what they CAN LEGALLY BAN.


That being said the criteria needs work