Official BBR Tier List v5

[etecoon]

I had no expectation of you accepting that, as I said I know you don't play this game competitively, that was the point. you're a theorycraft warrior, you have no place accusing anyone of being scrubs for their opinions on things that you haven't even experienced, and truthfully have shown yourself to know very little about.

and no I don't think infinites should be banned

 

[Death Arcana]

marth overrated?
he just got styled on by Sawnikoo

 

[ShadowLink84]

I had no expectation of you accepting that, as I said I know you don't play this game competitively, that was the point.

No no no, let us get this straight.

That is your belief.
It is not a fact.

Of course, you never said anything when I was active in tournament since you would have just looked stupid.

Now, when I am not active due to reasons regarding my personal life, you decide to open your mouth?

Good job.
Again, treat the bulimic status.
Whether or not I am active currently, has no bearing on the fact your mentality is SCRUBBY.

you're a theorycraft warrior, you have no place accusing anyone of being scrubs for their opinions on things that you haven't even experienced, and truthfully have shown yourself to know very little about.

I have played many different competitive games.
I have played some games where, you get hit, thats it, you die.
End story.
I played MvC2, SF2, played SSF4 (never bought it especially since AE is coming out soon)
I play GGXXAC
TvC (brought this to tournament repeatedly people lOVED it)
Halo series (quit after 3)

So yes, I have encountered many things you consider "cheap" and by your logic, you would ban.
Go back to mashing buttons.

and no I don't think infinites should be banned[/COLOR]

Why not?
Clearly you think it is perfectly acceptable to have an LGL, you should be banning infinites as well for the sake of consistency.

 

[bigman40]

I guess the norm for smash players is ban everything, and restrict everything to keep characters in games.


.....****...I'm a smash player though....

 

[Steam]

can someone just go and win a tourney with Pplanking so we can establish that it's broken already?

 

[Laem]

LMAO SHADOWLINK
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoL

 

[Spelt]

This discussion sure got dumb fast.

 

[ShadowLink84]

This discussion sure got dumb fast.

No, people got bored is all.

Or I am thinking too well of them.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Bored people always try to find things to spice up the action when it gets dull.

 

[Orion*]

Right.

Her OOS options look pretty bad at first, but utilt is frame 11 and JC usmash is frame 8 (!!!) OOS. Jab is 9. Her big weakness is not having a grab OOS, but in any staredown situation she's fast as hell and can just run.

Her mid-range camp game is pretty safe unless you're really predictable. I wouldn't say that if you say, predict a dsmash you can't punish it, she's not THAT safe (Orion will say the same thing lol), as a matter of fact, the moves are really easy to punish if you see them coming. But you can't punish them all the same, and jumping over her is mad dangerous.

I think this understanding is what makes NR so much more successful than the rest of us, because if you watch his gameplay, it's VERY VERY ground-centric and he doesn't shield a lot. In most situations other characters would shield, just runs runs the other way. It isn't like most characters can catch her.

i just. refrain from jumping vs zss....

**** that her air game is broken LOL

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

i just. refrain from jumping vs zss....

**** that her air game is broken LOL

Agree there. I just fight her on the ground most of the time.

 

[Tesh]

So is sonic better than Peach now?

 

[Browny]

Ness > Sonic

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

So is sonic better than Peach now?

I see what you did there kind sir. XD

 

[JayBee]

lol tesh.

personally, I feel like LGL is one of those rules that is easy to talk about, but is hard as hell to work because the things that caused talk of a LGL to surface and eventually become part of the ruleset... i guess i feel right now that the LGL doesn't really do squat to the metagame, one way or the other, and may actually impede players ability to judge certain aspects of brawl, simply with its mere presence.

For me, on one side i dont want it because I want a realistic chance for the brawl community to see if it makes a significant change in the metagame at all. I was talking to a freind one day, and we jokingly said that without a LGL, no one could beat M2K. but seriously, what if that happened? and does that reall change the metagame? I just want to have decisions on these things finalized and done with so the speculation can just die already.

On the other side, people would probably complain more. but the information we would get would allow people to make 100% "were making this rule and are positive this needs to be here" decisions, y'know?

I also dont thing infinites should be allowed in ANY competitive fighting game, no matter how hard it is, but that's just me. I always thought it centralizes a characters metagame around one thing, and makes them look more linear than they really are (plus it creates hates, but who cares about that?) . My favorite IC's player was God-is-my-rock, because he did so much more with his character in terms of technique outside the infinites that made me respect the character.

im sorry most of these thoughts arent well organized, but i wanted to write it down before i lost them in my head.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I'd say MM me if you think I'm a scrub but you don't even go to tournaments, you're just the american version of BPC.

actually he has way more cred than you at this point LOL

dannnnnngggggg.

I had no expectation of you accepting that, as I said I know you don't play this game competitively, that was the point. you're a theorycraft warrior, you have no place accusing anyone of being scrubs for their opinions on things that you haven't even experienced, and truthfully have shown yourself to know very little about.

and no I don't think infinites should be banned

going in right now!

also, etecoon, you going to pound?

LMAO SHADOWLINK
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoL

basically this.

 

[Mr.-0]

What's with all the shadowlink hate?

 

[TP]

For me, on one side i dont want it because I want a realistic chance for the brawl community to see if it makes a significant change in the metagame at all. I was talking to a freind one day, and we jokingly said that without a LGL, no one could beat M2K. but seriously, what if that happened? and does that reall change the metagame? I just want to have decisions on these things finalized and done with so the speculation can just die already.

On the other side, people would probably complain more. but the information we would get would allow people to make 100% "were making this rule and are positive this needs to be here" decisions, y'know?

SiiS4 was 2 weeks ago. After M2K beat Ally in the finals (which were a joke because there was no LGL), Ally said he had "literally no chance to win" because of the lack of LGL. Then everybody complained (more for Coney's sake than Ally's, don't forget that Coney JV3ed M2K game one with DDD and was already ****ed because of the rules). M2K says it's needed, and proved it when he reduced the one-time best player in the world to "no chance." We don't need to continue this anymore. Either have the LGL or ban MK, I don't care which.

 

[infiniteV115]

Either have the LGL or ban MK, I don't care which.

1) Employ LGL, and give MK a lower LGL than everyone else
2) LGL only for MK

They're both a little lulzable, but I don't think they're too unreasonable. Whether or not you enforce an LGL isn't what makes the big difference, it's the actual value you choose.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

A ledge grab limit really is necessary, though only because of Meta Knight.

I'd much prefer it if we just bit the bullet and banned the character altogether.

 

[DMG]

SiiS4 was 2 weeks ago. After M2K beat Ally in the finals (which were a joke because there was no LGL), Ally said he had "literally no chance to win" because of the lack of LGL. Then everybody complained (more for Coney's sake than Ally's, don't forget that Coney JV3ed M2K game one with DDD and was already ****ed because of the rules). M2K says it's needed, and proved it when he reduced the one-time best player in the world to "no chance." We don't need to continue this anymore. Either have the LGL or ban MK, I don't care which.

Let me hold you up for a second:

This isn't new to the game either. This is not the first time M2K has said "Yeah this is dumb, why is there no LGL?" or the first time a top player got planked/planked someone else. I'm surprised people look at SiiS as the "breaking point" of what's tolerable when that's not even close to the first instance of someone doing something like that on that kind of level. Even better? Examples of M2K doing it to people WITH a LGL in place (usually one that's too high, like 50+).


It's even better when people see this, and go "Let's legalize Norfair". Lol

 

[John12346]

@ Reflex

I thought we were promised a rediscussion of this a year after the 4th ban vote ended?

 

[Mr.-0]

I really want it to be reopened to discussion. That was the most hardcore and intriguing debate in smash histroy imo.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Sounds to me like Ban MK.

Planking isn't the problem, Metaknight's Planking is.

Fighting from the ledge is a universal tactic in brawl just like fighting in the air or on the ground. If a characters Air/Ground tactics made them unbeatable, then it's the character that needs to be banned. You wouldn't say that ALL Characters can only stay in the air/touch the ground X number of times would you? If you make it Character specific instead, it just goes to say he breaks the system and should be banned.

Just one of many thoughts on the issue, but smash boards doesn't like it when people talk about MK bans right?

Whatever. On topic.

I think Luigi is overrated and needs to drop. Sonic should rise. I love Pit but he hasn't been doing much. Is he a better or more viable character then Peach, DK, or Wolf? I'd like to say yes, but that's pure bias.

Thoughts?

 

[TP]

DMG, I chose that example because I was there. I was actually doing the commentary for the finals, and talked with the players right after. That's why I felt I should explain what they both thought on the issue.

 

[DMG]

DMG, I chose that example because I was there. I was actually doing the commentary for the finals, and talked with the players right after. That's why I felt I should explain what they both thought on the issue.

No I know that, I didn't mean you specifically. I meant in general people watched the vids and said "That's dumb" when the same exact **** basically happened to players in the past and people said "Get better" or said nothing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

@ Reflex

I thought we were promised a rediscussion of this a year after the 4th ban vote ended?

I don't remember, but my memory is rather bad in general.

All I know is, "It's obvious without him as a player, I'd be trash, right? But SBR decided that they voted for the last time."

 

[Savon]

It is all true. MK breaks ledges, has no bad MUs, and has no bad stages. We will just keep ignoring the elephant in the room.

Regardless, why do you think Luigi should drop Lenus? I see Luigi as one of those characters who is GREAT at what he is good at, but has a major weakness that is just as extreme as his strength. The strength being his kill potential and offensive game as a whole, and his weakness being his terrible mobility and recovery.
He is not as a good as people originally thought he was, but I am not sure entirely. He should not go any lower than the middle of D tier if he HAS to drop.

 

[BigLøu]

The best way to describe Luigi is that his strengths are REALLY GOOD. But his weaknesses are equally bad, and unfortunatly that hinders him a lot. He is great at what he can do, but he is very bad with what he can't do.

 

[DMG]

VERY bad. Let's stress that part. People can talk all day about Jab to Upb, but I'm gonna talk about his shield sliding, poor horizontal air mobility, etc


LOU go to Pound.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I maintain that an important prerequisite for being a decent character is a certain amount of speed in mobility, and that is something Luigi doesn't have. His competitive strategies will always primarily rely on the usefulness of his amazing jab.

That being said, stage control has a lot to do with that, and in Teams, having a partner makes all the difference, making Luigi easily one of the best character there, due to his ridiculous strengths.

 

[John12346]

Luigi... well... yeah. He has what I argue to be the best Nair in the game. He has good comboing ability and great kill power. He's also got that above average recovering ability. Imo one of the most dangerous characters in the game if you're not spacing right.

Issue is, he has no range, has a lot of trouble moving around, and gets sent sliding everywhere everytime someone even decides to TOUCH his shield.

I think he should go up, though. He's pretty underrated right now, and I'm just basing this all on Nair.

All I know is, "It's obvious without him as a player, I'd be trash, right? But SBR decided that they voted for the last time."

You... are you being serious about this? Nothing's going on behind the curtain? No rediscussions? No plans for the future?

I'm getting really nervous over where my discussions have been going in the past couple of days, and I can't detect sarcasm on the internet, so I'm kinda scared right now...

 

[BigLøu]

VERY bad. Let's stress that part. People can talk all day about Jab to Upb, but I'm gonna talk about his shield sliding, poor horizontal air mobility, etc


LOU go to Pound.

Exactly, I guess I shold have stressed the REALLY bad more.

I can't go to pound or any Major tournies for a bit. I moved out of m parents house so I have to pay rent. Genesis 2 will probably be my next tourney.

I maintain that an important prerequisite for being a decent character is a certain amount of speed in mobility, and that is something Luigi doesn't have. His competitive strategies will always primarily rely on the usefulness of his amazing jab.

That being said, stage control has a lot to do with that, and in Teams, having a partner makes all the difference, making Luigi easily one of the best character there, due to his ridiculous strengths.

Yep


Edit-Whoa.... John numbers Luigi does not at all have decent aerial mobility lol. It's like the 2nd or 3 rd worst in the game.

 

[da K.I.D.]

also, best luigi is now diddy, and other best luigi, seems to be going back to playing more mario so luigi wont be getting any stellar results for a while either.

 

[Lenus Altair]

Regardless, why do you think Luigi should drop Lenus? I see Luigi as one of those characters who is GREAT at what he is good at, but has a major weakness that is just as extreme as his strength. The strength being his kill potential and offensive game as a whole, and his weakness being his terrible mobility and recovery.
He is not as a good as people originally thought he was, but I am not sure entirely. He should not go any lower than the middle of D tier if he HAS to drop.

I generally agree with what you say, but I think his mobility is detrimental, especially on top of how much he is pushed when sheilding. His range isn't impressive to begin with, and when he can't punish a good deal of attacks other characters with similiar range problems can becuase he gets shunted, it's a sad day. The margin of error for poor spacing on sheild is much higher against a Luigi.

Brawl is a campy game sure, but I think if an individual put attention to learn this matchup, the would learn that so long as their character is more mobile and uses to there attacks that push around Luigi, he really isn't as threatening. It's ok to run away!

I'll throw in as a Pit player, this is one of the few matches where I throw in wingdashing in combat due to how much further it pushes luigi then others. It's pretty silly.

 

[John12346]

Edit-Whoa.... John numbers Luigi does not at all have decent aerial mobility lol. It's like the 2nd or 3 rd worst in the game.

That was my mistake. I fixed it already. Sorry. -_ -;

 

[BigLøu]

also, best luigi is now diddy, and other best luigi, seems to be going back to playing more mario so luigi wont be getting any stellar results for a while either.

Well I may main diddy, but i still do heavily rely on Luigi for some matchups

 

[NickRiddle]

Well I may main diddy, but i still do heavily rely on Luigi for some matchups

You main Diddy now?
That's awesome! Your character doesn't suck anymore!

 

[BigLøu]

Diddy sucks he can't kill till like 140 >

I just think his side b is the mist badass move in the game :D

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah Diddy doesn't have the killpower, but he can easily kill you when you make a mistake T_T
Ban Diddy Kong.