Official BBR Tier List v7

[Tesh]

Tesh, I'm pretty sure Marth and Fox have the 2 fastest walks. So Sonic's can't be 2nd.
*checks*
Yup. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244329

I feel like being one point off isn't much justification for a correction, infinite. His point still stands.

I see where my error was. Another thread lists Fox/Marth as tied for number 1 with Fox having higher acceleration and marth having a higher top speed (who the **** cares about top speed anyway).

point is still that Sonic has the ****tiest tilts/jab of the top 10-15 walk speeds.

 

[Mekos]

When me and Deltacod say "smarter", we mean that the player is more AWARE of what is going on in the game and picks better options(and has the technical skill to carry out those options). Not necessarily a smarter person in life lololol.

 

[stingers]

lol reminds me of this one time....

okay I'll tell ya the story!! A huge crowd was yelling against me and someone told me to put headphones on. I did and it ended up killing me because I was playing on Frigrate!! ahahaaha good times.

I don't play with headphones. I just love playing with hacked music.

u better not be talking about our set...there was nothing u could've done to avoid that!

 

[Mekos]

lololol I think it was against you Stingers! haha. Like years ago tho. Not our most recent one.

 

[stingers]

years ago? like when I used mk on you? LOOOL oh man how do u remember **** like that
all I know is...when frigate killed u in charlotte...u couldnt have done ****. that is all
even tho u won that match anyway x.x

 

[BSP]

He could have picked MK beforehand.

 

[Vinylic.]

Mekos isn't that kind of guy to use MK.

His Lucas is already the MK of low tiers. Seriously, did you see how he plays?
I can't even play like that unless I was on pixi stixs and gatorade.

 

[BSP]

I was just giving .02$ on how to avoid Frigate killing you

 

[Delta-cod]

When me and Deltacod say "smarter", we mean that the player is more AWARE of what is going on in the game and picks better options(and has the technical skill to carry out those options). Not necessarily a smarter person in life lololol.

I mean, I said "better", but yeah, the idea's the same.

Either way, top players aren't stupid, lol. They don't have to be geniuses, but they're definitely smarter than most players as far as Brawl is concerned.

 

[Orion*]

When me and Deltacod say "smarter", we mean that the player is more AWARE of what is going on in the game and picks better options(and has the technical skill to carry out those options). Not necessarily a smarter person in life lololol.

I mean, I said "better", but yeah, the idea's the same.

Either way, top players aren't stupid, lol. They don't have to be geniuses, but they're definitely smarter than most players as far as Brawl is concerned.

give or take i think we all have the same reasoning so it's cool

@DMG

you garble my marbles if you want

otherwise stop trying to rustle my jimmies

 

[PMC66]

I've been studying the tournament results data more and more and i've got to say. Pokemon trainer's is so stupidly good when calculated at percentage of useage and winnings though thats probably because of Reflex being the only pokemon trainer and winning so much xD

 

[C.J.]

Yes, we know. That data is in the excel file in the OP.

%age wise, PT is the 6th best character.

 

[Mekos]

That comment was directed at Supermodel From Paris guys. He seemed to be confused.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Yes, we know. That data is in the excel file in the OP.

%age wise, PT is the 6th best character.

We do the best we can.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I knew I picked a good main.

Is there a Tier list that shows where Squirtle, Charizard, and Ivysaur place individually?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

%age wise, PT is the 6th best character.
I knew I picked a good main.

Is there a Tier list that shows where Squirtle, Charizard, and Ivysaur place individually?

No; some people have been asking for it, but, there are too many complications. The only way to accurately suggest matchups or money/popularity would be seeing how the character would do in something like a "1-stock, 3 minute game" environment, as you're forced to switch for at least a little bit if you are KO'd.

 

[Orion*]

That comment was directed at Supermodel From Paris guys. He seemed to be confused.

no surprises

 

[Kink-Link5]

No; some people have been asking for it, but, there are too many complications. The only way to accurately suggest matchups or money/popularity would be seeing how the character would do in something like a "1-stock, 3 minute game" environment, as you're forced to switch for at least a little bit if you are KO'd.

That 2015 metagame.

"Super Modified DSR: You can not select a stage that you have already gone to time on or one whose name has more than three letters in common with your character"

 

[Lukingordex]

Is there a Tier list that shows where Squirtle, Charizard, and Ivysaur place individually?

Well... That is hard to define,because Squirtle,Charizard and Ivysaur needs to work as a team...

 

[Nidtendofreak]

idk, it wouldn't be that hard to do.

Throw Ivy into bottom tier, Charizard into low tier, and Squirtle into the borderline tier. There, done! Highly subjective, impossible to place correctly within those tiers, and would be argued about until the end of time, but done!

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Lol, Ivy as bottom tier? Maybe if fewer people tried to play her like a slower heavier squirtle and actually took advantage of her spacing ability, she'd enjoy more success. Could write a full page rant on this so I'll just stop here.

Hmm... Taken into account Charizards amazing synergy with Ivy he might rank a bit higher. Of course that might defeat the entire purpose of an individual ranking so... I suppose it depends solely on how you evaluate him. *sigh*.

 

[Seagull Joe]

if you actually hang out and chat with them most are really smart. many have social problems or could use large improvements in their attitude, but I have yet to meet a player who was really good in all aspects of the game that I thought was just ********.

Have you talked with Chu?

Lol, Ivy as bottom tier? Maybe if fewer people tried to play her like a slower heavier squirtle and actually took advantage of her spacing ability, she'd enjoy more success. Could write a full page rant on this so I'll just stop here.

Hmm... Taken into account Charizards amazing synergy with Ivy he might rank a bit higher. Of course that might defeat the entire purpose of an individual ranking so... I suppose it depends solely on how you evaluate him. *sigh*.

is true garbage. She lacks ability to camp (Razer leaf lol), she is slow in both the ground and the air, her recovery is horrid, and most of her moves are telegraphed. She's like with a projectile, no RCO, and bullet seed. Her entire game is razer leaf and bullet seed.

is also bad, but not nearly as bad. Worst roll in the game, a piss poor glide, not many moves he can utilize to be safe on shield other then rock smash (Why would someone shield a rock smash), etc...

is either the best LT ( should not be LT) or the worst MT.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

is true garbage. She lacks ability to camp (Razer leaf lol), she is slow in both the ground and the air, her recovery is horrid, and most of her moves are telegraphed. She's like with a projectile, no RCO, and bullet seed. Her entire game is razer leaf and bullet seed.

is also bad, but not nearly as bad. Worst roll in the game, a piss poor glide, not many moves he can utilize to be safe on shield other then rock smash (Why would someone shield a rock smash), etc...

You clearly have a very skewed understanding of how these characters work. Noting similarities between Ivysaur and Ganondorf outside of a bad recovery is misleading at best and slanderous at worst. Both characters have traits they struggle with, but, they both approach situations very, very differently.

Charizard's rolls are fine; it's his pratfall movement that sucks (and while we're on that, Ivysaur's is arguably the best in the game). B-Air, fullhop D-Air, and Flamethrower are more than enough to threaten a shielding opponent. B-Reverse and wavebounce make Flamethrower and Rock Smash unpredictable and especially dangerous.

You are misinformed.

 

[Eddie G]

Chu sexy tho.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Hey Reflex, while we're on the subject of B reverses, what are they?

 

[Eddie G]

Very good post Reflex. I used to have that same kind of mindset about PT (especially those two characters) but after studying them a little more and watching a lot of your matches, I've come to the conclusion that they're definitely a set that shouldn't be underestimated in the least. Charizard is the scariest of the three for me to go up against, hands down. Respectable killpower combined with unpredictability always makes me extremely uneasy lol.

 

[Vinylic.]

But what about squirtle? He seems to have more advantage than ivy, right?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Hey Reflex, while we're on the subject of B reverses, what are they?

Turnaround-B [Universal] - The turnaround of neutral special is done by tapping the opposite direction with the control stick and doing neutral special within 20 frames after the tap. Other special turnarounds are done by pressing in the opposite direction and the special's direction.
B-Reverse (Reversal-B) [Universal] - The turnaround in the air that reverses your momentum. It is performed by pressing in the opposite direction you are facing AFTER you perform the special.
Wavebounce (Recoil-Special) [Universal] - The reversal of momentum that occurs when you combine a Turnaround-B and B-Reverse. You will face the same direction that you did before.

Basically, if you're moving to the right while in the air, press Right+B, then quickly start holding left, your movement to the right suddenly reverses to the left. The character will also be facing the left.

A wavebounce's effect is pretty much the same thing, but your character doesn't change where he's facing.

Fun fact: Rock Smash's rock shards fly in the direction that the momentum starts, so a wavebounced B-Reverse causes the shards to move inside of Charizard. Catches many rolls and spotdodges really well.

But what about squirtle? He seems to have more advantage than ivy, right?

Yeah. Squirtle has a lot of really useful, really easy-to-understand advantages. So many quick and useful attacks, safe pokes, and nice mobility. Excellent juggle game. Things like that.

 

[Tesh]

rock smash isnt safe on shield.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

rock smash isnt safe on shield.

I never listed it as an option to reliably attack shields.

However, it is safe on shield sometimes, though it is somewhat luck-based; depending on where the shards go, it can be as "good" as -9 on shield. Also, the shield-poking aspect of it disagrees with you if the opponent's shield isn't full and you hit at certain angles.

 

[DeLux]

It also does a billion damage and destroys ICs for free

 

[Tesh]

seagull man said it was

 

[Luxord]

seagull man said it was

LOL for some reason i imagined this being said in a childish voice

ontopic: rock smash doesn't do a billion, only ICs everystupidhitofdsmash does a billion, rock smash is just a couple hundred million

 

[Dre89]

I was pretty surprised when someone said Ivy's meta was razor leaf and bullet seed. You could probably win a match without using those moves. It's meta is bair, nair and pivot grab.

 

[BSP]

IDK about winning a match without them. No razor leaf means she can't camp at all as opposed to at least having something; bair does 5% fresh, and you can't really approach with a pivot grab. Good luck with approaching with Nair.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Bair isn't necessarily for damage. Of course, every little bit helps, but it's mostly used as either a spacing move or an RAR'd approach.

Edit: Bullet Seed's ability to shut down attack strings is just too good.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Just imagine if there was a move with ridiculous priority and mobility that only did 5 damage. Oh the horror.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Just imagine if there was a move with ridiculous priority and mobility that only did 5 damage. Oh the horror.

An overused MK's d-tilt?

 

[Tesh]

A good Ivy is all about wasting maximum time to let the better pokemon rest up. Then you score a launch out of a pivot grab or maybe a strong hit dash attack/fair and you switch.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Thats definitely a benifit to Ivy's campy nature, but she's a pretty decent character on her own.
(I'd have said he was the best character, but, as an Ivy main I know thats just my biased opinion)
Whats more, you must consider that Ivy grants PT certain MU advantages that he wouldnt otherwise have. Try or fighting GaW or, to a lesser extent, Ike without using Ivy. You'll see what I mean.