Official BBR Tier List v7

[TheReflexWonder]

Is nair hard to SDI?
If not, I don't see why someone could just SDI out before the pseudo-spike. So the Ivy would pretty much have to hope to hit with only the spike hitbox, or the last 2 or 3 hits. And it doesn't seem like it has the greatest range either, so...couldn't a ZSS just uair it or something? XD

The spike hitbox is behind and at the bottom, so the only way to land it is to do it while rising from some sort of jump. SDI up, and you take the full 14% of damage from a regular N-Air. SDI down, and you set yourself up to get spiked. Take your pick.

 

[Laem]

Judging from those videos nairspike looks as viable as any regular spike to me (ie: "not that much but still")

 

[BSP]

It can't be much worse than Mario's

Sooooo weak

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Its weight based knockback apparently on that trajectory, so it works at any percent. Attempted KO method on Olimar lol

 

[infiniteV115]

The spike hitbox is behind and at the bottom, so the only way to land it is to do it while rising from some sort of jump. SDI up, and you take the full 14% of damage from a regular N-Air. SDI down, and you set yourself up to get spiked. Take your pick.

So assuming 'behind' is to the right, why can't we just SDI left+down?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

So assuming 'behind' is to the right, why can't we just SDI left+down?

The knockback of the weak hits sends you up, and Ivysaur moves away from the opponent, which, in your case, would be left.

 

[DRN]

I havent been able to SDI it so far although i dont always expect the hit so i probably try too late. I havent been hit by it that many times in singles but i do tend to run into it in doubles. Cant avoid them all

I hate ivysaur the most...

 

[Luxord]

Uh, a lot of characters, actually. It tends to work because pretty much every other aerial has the potential to outrange retaliation, so people often adjust to avoid those moves instead. Any tether character, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Yoshi, Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Falco, Ice Climbers, Link, Samus, Sheik, Wolf...

Characters like Ike, Jigglypuff, Kirby, Lucas, Lucario, Ness, Pit, and R.O.B. can be chased after/followed up on to prevent a recovery afterward.

Spiked by Ivysaur N-Air? It's more likely than you think.

Other than you, and just you, do any other PTs like Aposl or Coontail (successfully) use nair as edgeguarding in tournament?

And I'm going to ask how you get it on Peach, Falco, Wario, and Wolf exactly?
Peach can float and space her landing, Falco should be able to side-b through things, Warios can recover high, and wolf can side-b as well? Just curious

I wish all the matches I get in friendlies while at tournaments would be saved; I'd have a lot to go around. This is some of my searching, though--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pGDDFrpdZ8#t=55s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JimZ8Cr0QUU#t=2m55s (YES, I REALIZE THIS IS IMPRACTICAL)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnE8Dwo80Jc#1m45s

http://youtu.be/ebXEgNiEESo

any tournament usage at all? These all looked like friendlies

 

[T-block]

ivy n-air can actually knock falco out of the later part of illusion

 

[DRN]

And I'm going to ask how you get it on Peach, Falco, Wario, and Wolf exactly?
Peach can float and space her landing, Falco should be able to side-b through things, Warios can recover high, and wolf can side-b as well? Just curious

any tournament usage at all? These all looked like friendlies

Its true that all these characters can avoid it at times but its not like they will ALWAYS have to liberty of recovering safely. Hes also not saying that he will 100% get the spike on every named character every time. I've seen him spike wario multiple times after he catches wario out of his jump from bike while recovering low. I also believe if wario up b's it'll clash with ivysairs nair and still send him downwards although someone else would have to confirm this.

I know hes done it to quite a few people in tournament although i dont think very many of them were recorded.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You can use Razor Leaf to cancel Peach's float.

Mindless fastfall airdodge is the space animal way. You can get a read and follow up from there. Same with Wario.

Almost all of my tournament matches involve characters that are hard to do it to, like Falco and King Dedede. I'm sure I've done it to Falco a couple times, but, I don't feel like sifting through four years of video to show you. Take it or leave it.

 

[Luxord]

You can use Razor Leaf to cancel Peach's float.

Mindless fastfall airdodge is the space animal way. You can get a read and follow up from there. Same with Wario.

Almost all of my tournament matches involve characters that are hard to do it to, like Falco and King Dedede. I'm sure I've done it to Falco a couple times, but, I don't feel like sifting through four years of video to show you. Take it or leave it.

lmfao i'll take it
no motive for you to lie about it haha

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Reflex is ****ing awesome.

 

[BSP]

Thats why he's THE Reflex Wonder

 

[Jon Farron]

How did Olimar get way up there??? O.o

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Fino, Logic, Rich Brown, and Nietono doing work, mostly. There are a lot of mains that are impressive. Denti plays Olimar, right? Anuar is an Olimar guy?

Olimar sort of plowing through the current metagame; proving that Ice Climbers aren't so bad, Meta Knight is fine compared to most characters, and Falco doesn't really cut it in this metagame. Everything's just sort of coming together for him.

 

[BSP]

I'm not positive about Anuar, but Denti does play Oli and he's been putting in work.

 

[z00ted]

Both players are remarkable Olimar mains.

 

[infiniteV115]

It's funny that you didn't mention Dabuz O.O
idk if you noticed, but he's kinda good.

 

[Dcold]

I was gonna say the same V115 lolol

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Forgot about him. I don't really check results. He's definitely good, yeah.

 

[Vinylic.]

And then Dabuz used pit. He even sigged my post on how it went.

I felt pretty cool because of that.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

You can use Razor Leaf to cancel Peach's float.

Mindless fastfall airdodge is the space animal way. You can get a read and follow up from there. Same with Wario.

Almost all of my tournament matches involve characters that are hard to do it to, like Falco and King Dedede. I'm sure I've done it to Falco a couple times, but, I don't feel like sifting through four years of video to show you. Take it or leave it.

Peach can fair and I think nair to cancel RL but I'm 100% sure on fair, essentially she crowns the leaf lol. If her back is towards ivy, bair will nom all leaves thrown at her. XD So RL is not always an option to get Peach out of her float, but I guess if you intend to rush her afterwards.. it sorta makes sense given just how 'slow' she is. X3

 

[M@v]

I don't know why we didn't just call borderline tier upper tier. IIRC upper tier was higher than high tier in melee, but the meaning could always be changed.

 

[Eddie G]

Borderline tier should be changed to the "Keep Letting These People Think They Could Eventually Win Money" tier.

 

[M@v]

But a borderline tier player has been taking the midwest's money for a long time now. Hes that wolf player who's KINDA good if you haven't heard.

 

[Espy Rose]

Maybe the midwest is free?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Peach can fair and I think nair to cancel RL but I'm 100% sure on fair, essentially she crowns the leaf lol. If her back is towards ivy, bair will nom all leaves thrown at her. XD So RL is not always an option to get Peach out of her float, but I guess if you intend to rush her afterwards.. it sorta makes sense given just how 'slow' she is. X3

That is correct, but, since Ivysaur can change the speed of Razor Leaf, it's not as easy to cancel as most moves; plus, unless Peach moves a good distance away while floating, a follow-up aerial from Ivysaur would be difficult to avoid.

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i was gonna ask if anything that mattered happened since i've been away.


i also remembered this is smash

 

[ViperGold42]

i was gonna ask if anything that mattered happened since i've been away.


i also remembered this is smash

welcome back, but in my own opinon I still feel Ivy is a weaker version of Oli.

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Borderline tier should be changed to the "Keep Letting These People Think They Could Eventually Win Money" tier.

yea.. that basically sums that tier up. XD

 

[TheReflexWonder]

welcome back, but in my own opinon I still feel Ivy is a weaker version of Oli.

That's a really weird comparison, and I definitely don't agree with it. Olimar is the epitome of safety. He's a very "fire and forget" kind of character. Almost all of Ivysaur's moves require at least a fair amount of precision to use without putting yourself at great risk. Ivysaur has many more frame traps than combos, while Olimar has legitimate strings everywhere. Olimar's grab is spammable; you can't afford to miss with Ivysaur.

Ivysaur's KO potential is limited by what KO moves are quick and safe. F-Smash isn't very safe, U-Smash requires a super-hard read, F-Air is slow, Dash Attack has a great deal of cooldown...Olimar has many useful KO moves that put him at little risk. Ivysaur's good edgeguarding options help, but, they're not really reliable for KOs.

Their similarities end at similar range on some move, Up-B tether, and Forward-B (having a hitbox out while you do other stuff). I don't think they're very comparable at all.

 

[ViperGold42]

That's a really weird comparison, and I definitely don't agree with it. Olimar is the epitome of safety. He's a very "fire and forget" kind of character. Almost all of Ivysaur's moves require at least a fair amount of precision to use without putting yourself at great risk. Ivysaur has many more frame traps than combos, while Olimar has legitimate strings everywhere. Olimar's grab is spammable; you can't afford to miss with Ivysaur.

Ivysaur's KO potential is limited by what KO moves are quick and safe. F-Smash isn't very safe, U-Smash requires a super-hard read, F-Air is slow, Dash Attack has a great deal of cooldown...Olimar has many useful KO moves that put him at little risk. Ivysaur's good edgeguarding options help, but, they're not really reliable for KOs.

Their similarities end at similar range on some move, Up-B tether, and Forward-B (having a hitbox out while you do other stuff). I don't think they're very comparable at all.

well its good to know we have a good debate, That's my opinion on how I've played with Ivy(who I don't main PT) but its just whenever I play Oli, I feel like I'm playing Ivy but with better options. But its good to know someone who respects my opinion. Thank you brother.

 

[CoonTail]

Other than you, and just you, do any other PTs like Aposl or Coontail (successfully) use nair as edgeguarding in tournament?

N-air spiking with Ivy is old PT knowledge and yes I can say I use this normally, why is it always such a big deal when people figure out it spikes??

well its good to know we have a good debate, That's my opinion on how I've played with Ivy(who I don't main PT) but its just whenever I play Oli, I feel like I'm playing Ivy but with better options. But its good to know someone who respects my opinion. Thank you brother.

Pretty sure the only reason you think of Oli when you play Ivy is because they both have tether-based recoveries, otherwise there is basically no similarities between the two characters.

 

[Luxord]

N-air spiking with Ivy is old PT knowledge and yes I can say I use this normally, why is it always such a big deal when people figure out it spikes??



Pretty sure the only reason you think of Oli when you play Ivy is because they both have tether-based recoveries, otherwise there is basically no similarities between the two characters.

Kinda lost you at the end, I always knew it spiked, I was just wondering how common it is, but yeah I should really watch more PT vids where ivy is out so I can see it, but I don't doubt you guys use it.

And the oli to ivy thing is OBVIOUSLY because they both have such great side-b's!!!

 

[Eddie G]

But a borderline tier player has been taking the midwest's money for a long time now. Hes that wolf player who's KINDA good if you haven't heard.

Kain is the obvious exception to the rule, every character with at least some redeeming qualities has at least one of them. TKD for Fox, Kain for Wolf, Illmatic for Peach (to a lesser extent but still). One exception does not constitute as a trend.

@ Espy - The Midwest is pretty free, but at least we aren't always locked out of top three. <3

/Texas

 

[Flayl]

It's not super-reliable, since it usually requires people to actively try to avoid another aerial, and people seem much more content eating a F-Air or U-Air. Still, it's definitely a thing that can happen in multiple situations.

Flayl, give me a little bit. I'll try to gather stuff.

Thanks, seems neat but hard to land compared to other spikes in the game. And yeah as you said it looks good enough for covering an opponent's prediction.

 

[z00ted]

imma woop kain's wolf's *** when i play him
tell that motha TKD to come to WHOBO 4, i'll woop it too

 

[Player-1]

you probably will, peach-fox is +4 peach after all

 

[z00ted]

imma woop all them *****
bring the entire world to whobo 4 mid tier, i'll still win

Spoiler

tkd, yui, espy, and reflex are scary as ****, though