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[Ryucloud]

Thanks Sveet and Reptar ****ing **** defualt pic

 

[mers]

What causes Mario's (and probly Doc's but I haven't seen it) cape to do that thing where it hits you differently, and instead of just reversing whatever you were doing you go into hitstun?

Yesterday, I (as Falco) shortened my phantasm to recover against my friend's Mario. He caped, and it still managed to hit me. I turned around and fell as I expected, but I hammered Up-B out of reflex, and after falling quite a distance (too far for Falco to recover vertically) my Firebird started.

Does anyone know how/why this happens?

 

[Ryucloud]

i also have another question i understand that parts in the game that you need to learn

 

[Ryucloud]

i also have another question i understand that parts in the game that you need to learn to become a better smasher such as
Techskill( complete control over your character)Spacing(ranges being at the tip of your opponents range close to the fire with out being burn) , baiting (in and out ranges, forcing them to approach), positioning, mind games are extremely important.

(Acaully positioning im still little vague in that aspect of the game if someone can also break that down with this question too )

but i really dont understand the concept of "Cover all options!" i know that a huge part of the game to get the finishing kill and covering everything but just if someone can explain that in more detail than that would be great cause i dont really understand it???/??

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

covering all options is done by doing a series of actions that allow you to cover all options on reaction. For example, marth dthrow turn dtilt turn grab when thrown towards the edge.

 

[Kanelol]

spacing is basically making sure you're always in a position where you can hit your opponent, but not get hit by them

positioning and spacing are essentially the same thing, unless you wanna start talking about platform and ledge game

covering all options is both an extension of spacing and a more abstract concept of mindgames, where you have to consider every viable option your opponent might pursue and put yourself in the best position to cover most of them as efficiently as possible. Just watch mango's falco a little bit and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

isn't positioning more strategic in meaning? like, you're positioned on the platform and your opponent is positioned under the opposite platform. One player is positioned on the edge and one player is positioned on the stage. Stuff like that...

i always thought spacing was attempting to threaten your opponent while remaining outside of his threat zone, or attempting to get "inside" your opponent's zone so he can't safely attack.

 

[Kanelol]

well yeah, positioning is more strategic, but the though process (for me anyway) works basically the same as the thought process for spacing, unless someone's on a ledge or platform or something, then it's more about who has the advantageous position on the stage

idk, maybe i just don't know anything about positioning

 

[Pi]

running
then pressing down + Z at the same time (roughly?)
makes you light shield

why is this?

 

[X1-12]

running
then pressing down + Z at the same time (roughly?)
makes you light shield

why is this?

Holding X during any sort of ground lag/action where you are unable to do anything buffers lightshield, I assume what you are doing is pressing Z during the crouch animation. (takes 2 frames iirc)

 

[Pi]

ahhh
so 2 frame window

oh yea but it doesn't work while standing
so are there diff properties to crouching to cancel the run animation ?

 

[TheGoat]

Who is the oldest (in terms of playing melee) active player?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

tink has got to be approaching that big five oh at this point

 

[Kanelol]

Who is the oldest (in terms of playing melee) active player?

probably some NorCal dude

I mean, Isai still plays every now and then

and Chillin went to RoM3

and there's that one peach player... forget his name.. Cort, maybe? at least one peach has been around for like 9 years

But in all honesty it's probably just some dude on Smashboards you and I have never heard of... there was a thread a little while back where some dude went through his experience of like 10 years of smashing... hang on

 

[X1-12]

tink has got to be approaching that big five oh at this point

Kone from the UK has been active for 8 years, and has been hosting tournaments for pretty much the whole of that - he hosted SNY1 and will do the same for SNY2 next summer. He's a legend.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

idk why i was quoted in that.

anyways mine was in reference to the midwest joke that tink is old and washed up. not that i'd expect some british dude to catch it.

 

[Pi]

what determines how long you hog the edge while you roll/get up/attack/jump from it?
duration of the whole action? duration you're invincible?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i believe its the total duration of the animation. its definitely not the invincibility length because get-up attack loses its invincibility before standing and rolling but holds edge almost as long as the roll.

 

[X1-12]

what determines how long you hog the edge while you roll/get up/attack/jump from it?
duration of the whole action? duration you're invincible?

I think the time for which the edge is occupied is not tied to the animation or the invincibility. It might have something to do with the animation but I don't think its the same amount of frames. Not 100% on it though

 

[Pink Reaper]

Was it ever determined if knockback actually stales in Melee?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

knockback doesn't stale in melee, but i seem to remember an exception....

 

[Seikend]

knockback doesn't stale in melee, but i seem to remember an exception....

I'm pretty sure Samus' missiles are that exception.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i will neither confirm nor deny that

magus magus420 (715)2664-3281 summon thee noW!

 

[Seikend]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7557086&postcount=10

It stales in damage only. Same thing for almost all attacks in the game.

Sheik's up-B explosion, Zelda's din's fire, Samus' charged shot/missiles/bombs, Doc's pills, Mario/Luigi's fireballs, ICs ice blocks, Yoshi's eggs, Link/YLink's boomerangs, Pika/Pichu's thunder jolts, M2's shadow balls, and G&W's sausages all stale in both damage and knockback. There may be a few more, but all other moves only staled in damage. If you noticed they're all projectiles, though not all projectiles staled this way for whatever reason (item based, living, and laser type projectiles don't).

Search function <3

 

[Pi]

what determines how long you hog the edge while you roll/get up/attack/jump from it?
duration of the whole action? duration you're invincible?

ahhh
so 2 frame window

oh yea but it doesn't work while standing
so are there diff properties to crouching to cancel the run animation ?

still kinda curious about these two if anyone has any more information


also what buttons do you hold to determine what music the stage loads? R/L? X/Y?

and what is the window for dropping your shield & being able to interrupt the shield drop animation after a power shield (melee attack)

 

[DippnDots]

each animation is different, and each animation (with the exception of the jump from ledge?) has a secondary animation it uses when you have a lot of percent on you (around 100 or so). I think its character dependent on what percent you need.


after you powershield a melee attack, you can drop your shield instantly / do an attack instantly. There is no "shield drop animation" unless you don't let go of the shield fast enough and effectively used the powershield to put your shield up.

 

[Pi]

each animation is different, and each animation (with the exception of the jump from ledge?) has a secondary animation it uses when you have a lot of percent on you (around 100 or so). I think its character dependent on what percent you need.


after you powershield a melee attack, you can drop your shield instantly / do an attack instantly. There is no "shield drop animation" unless you don't let go of the shield fast enough and effectively used the powershield to put your shield up.

i was aware of the different animations, and yes the % threshold is 100 to trigger the different animations, i was looking to find out what determines how long your character is essentially 'hogging' the edge, preventing anyone else from grabbing it, you know?

and i'm fairly certain that there is a shield drop animation when powershielding, but you can interrupt it with A or B attacks

but you can't dash/crouch out of it, you will roll/spotdodge

 

[DippnDots]

a dash / crouch isn't an attack though, you can begin any attack animation out of a powershield without any sort of shield drop animation taking place. The shield drop animation is only there if you power shield a projectile.

As for how long you're grabbing the edge, i'm fairly certain that you count as on the edge for the entirety of the animation you use to get back on

 

[Pi]

the 'guardoff' animation takes place whether your regular shield, powershield a projectile, or powershield a physical/melee attack

but in the instance that you powershield a melee attack, the guardoff animation can be interrupted with an A or B attack.

if you choose to do nothing, your character will do the guardoff animation.

 

[DippnDots]

To answer your original question, after powershielding a melee attack, you can immediately begin an attack animation, your "shield drop" will be instant. However, you have to actually let go of the shield button(l/r/z) otherwise when you give your controller an input, it'll try to roll, spotdodge, or shieldgrab, instead of smash/tilting or jabbing.

That's all i've been trying to get across. That's why powershield -> grabbing is a hell of a lot easier than powershield -> forwardsmashing.

 

[Pi]

What I was wondering is after powershielding a melee attack, how long can you be holding the shield button and still be able to interrupt your shield drop animation with an attack.

like

let's say you powershield marths Fsmash
then continue shielding for 3 more seconds
when you let go of shield is the window still active?
or do you need to have let go of the shield during shieldhitstun?
that's what i was asking, perhaps i worded it poorly

also i don't think you can tilt out of the shielddrop animation after a PS

i think it just doesn't read directional inputs, aside from up (for jump)
which is why you can't dash/tilt
but you can still smash/side B

 

[DippnDots]

When you powershield a non-projectile, you have no shieldstun at all.

***I don't know exactly how long you have before it's too late, i'd assume once the flashy powershield
lights go away your window is up***
I think you're right about the directional inputs, because yeah you can't dash out of one. But if you can side-b / side-smash it'd make sense you'd be able to tilt as well :\

It sounds like you want to be hitting the shield button without actually holding it if you're having troubles doing an attack after a powershield. If you end up not powershielding the attack and you just hit the button, you have all the shieldstun to press and hold it again. Just a thought

 

[Pi]

it's not that i'm having trouble doing it, i was just curious
thought i spose in the sense that i haven't really tried to implement it into my gameplay could be seen as having trouble with it...
idk
i can pshield falco/marth fsmashes all day
and dsmash after them np
sept only if i'm the one doing the fsmash and shielding
ty right toe

but yea...

oh, and you d ohave shieldhitstun even if you powershield an attack
same ammount


only benefits to powershielding an attack are;
no shield decay
interruuptable shielddrop animation

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Thanks Sveet and Reptar ****ing **** defualt pic

just saw this now

 

[MT_]

Is this true with regards to powershielding:

If the projectile hits your shield, then you shielded too early for a powershield. If you get hit by the projectile, then you did not shield soon enough to powershield.

If it isn't true, then what exactly is the criteria for a successful powershield?

 

[Pi]

i believe you must full shield in 1 frame
meaning
push the button all the way down in 1 frame
then on the very next frame, the powershield (projectile) window will be open
and stay open for 2 frames

so basically

Frame 0 - Fully press the shield button
Frame 1 - Shield comes out, Projectile Powershield window is open, non-projectile powershield window is open
Frame 2 - Shield is out, Projectile powershield window is still open, non-projectile powershield window is open
Frame 3 - Shield is still out, projectile powershield window is not open, non-projectile powershield window is open
Frame 4 - Shield is still out, projectile powershield window is not open, non-projectile powershield window is open
Frame 5 - Shield is still out, no powershield window is open

A non-powershield could be due to shielding to early, like you said
or not pressing the shield button down fully in the time alotted (I'm not 100% sure it's in 1 frame)

 

[MT_]

Thanks for the response; do you know about the following:

What happens if you shield when the projectile is inside your shield range, and then gets absorbed inside the shield? Does that also mean you shielded too late? And the when the powershield window is open, that means that when the projectile hits your shield specifically it will be reflected?

 

[Pi]

i don't know of any instance where a shield 'absorbs' a projectile
i think as long as the projectiles hitbox interacts with the powershield area it will reflect that projectile back at the same angle that it came in at

if you mean like, let's say kirby/jiggs is ducking, and samus shoots a missile
then they shield when the missile is directly over them, and it 'hits' their shield
that probably means you were too slow in pressing the shield button, as in you did not activate the powershield window at all

i'm fairly certain that if you activate the powershield window, and it collides w/ a projectile, it will powershield regardless of where it intersects


what i'm not sure about, is how/why/when projectiles 'bounce' off of shields at some awkward angle

 

[MT_]

I guess what I'm trying to say is, does it matter if the projectile hits the edge of the shield or hits inside the shield? I think I haven't been putting full shield down in one frame which is probably why I find myself "absorbing" certain projectiles.

 

[Pi]

no, the powershield window is the full shield
so as long as you're pressing it fast enough it'll reflect/powershield