Official Footstool Thread v. 1.0

[∫unk]

There's more into it than that like just explaining the values of crossovers and little tricks like jab grab

 

[MrEh]

I play Jiggs like I play Bowser. (if you can believe that) The playstyle can be described in one word: punish.

Oh, and I did get to use the 0-D on Wario. I perfect shielded his f-smash as the opening for the footstool. It was on final D. I used the up-air double jab lock and ended it with a DAC pivot-grab release into rest (for maximum snazziness).

Epic.

Wario aside, I'm trying to replicate this with other characters. Just without the Rest and with Sing/Rollout instead. XD

 

[Maniclysane]

I play Jiggs like I play Bowser. (if you can believe that)

The playstyle can be described in one word: punish.

Lol. In Brawl basically everyone plays like Jigglypuff, except Jigglypuff.

 

[Veril]

okay, this is getting off topic. Back to footstooling.

If Noobicidal is correct and f-tilt trips Wario at 57%, we have an almost guaranteed KO on him.

57% + 10% (f-tilt) + 12+% (at least 6 hits of the d-air) = 79%. Rest KOs at 78 vs. Wario.

D-air can lead into rest directly, but the last hit has to trip. If it doesn't, you still have the option of footstooling Wario.

A footstool timed simultaneously with rest is a combo.

So, f-tilt > dair > footstool + rest: KO vs. Wario at 57%.

 

[MrEh]

So, f-tilt > dair > footstool + rest: KO vs. Wario at 57%.

Sounds sexy. The only problem is getting Wario to that 57%.

Getting your opponent to an exact percent is very annoying, unless we figure out an easy way to do it. Jigg's Pummel does 3%, so it would be annoying if we had to stale it to get it to do 1%...

 

[Veril]

Sounds sexy. The only problem is getting Wario to that 57%.

Getting your opponent to an exact percent is very annoying, unless we figure out an easy way to do it. Jigg's Pummel does 3%, so it would be annoying if we had to stale it to get it to do 1%...

57% is the minimum.

 

[MrEh]

57% is the minimum.

So anything above that percent trips? O_O

 

[Veril]

well, I'll be finding out soon.

 

[__G__]

wow. can you even believe the sheer audacity of that marth player? some random marth player commenting on the jiggs boards and assuming he knows our character more than us?! what jiggs does he even play against, anyway, cuz that jiggs better be one of the most awesome jiggs players here? Junkinthetrunk definitely does NOT have a good jiggs, though, i've seen it... seriously, awful. anyway, let me just say that he's totally right about everything he said (except for that little attack on our boards/players -- we prolly dont get respect for a totally different reason).

well, it has been a long time since i've been on these forums, but i've had good reasons. anyway... i'm glad to see that people are still here, trying to figure out stuff to help the puff. You should all be very thankful to Alex for everything he's done here, even if some things didnt quite pan-out, he's absolutely the one who keeps these boards alive.

ok, so i guess thats enough for now. I'll prolly be around and see how things are at random times. Hope to keep seeing an advancement of my favorite little gal.

Don't forget, even though you don't know it, I'm always with you, as long as you keep my memory alive in yor heart...!

 

[Maniclysane]

wow. can you even believe the sheer audacity of that marth player? some random marth player commenting on the jiggs boards and assuming he knows our character more than us?! what jiggs does he even play against, anyway, cuz that jiggs better be one of the most awesome jiggs players here? Junkinthetrunk definitely does NOT have a good jiggs, though, i've seen it... seriously, awful. anyway, let me just say that he's totally right about everything he said (except for that little attack on our boards/players -- we prolly dont get respect for a totally different reason).

well, it has been a long time since i've been on these forums, but i've had good reasons. anyway... i'm glad to see that people are still here, trying to figure out stuff to help the puff. You should all be very thankful to Alex for everything he's done here, even if some things didnt quite pan-out, he's absolutely the one who keeps these boards alive.

ok, so i guess thats enough for now. I'll prolly be around and see how things are at random times. Hope to keep seeing an advancement of my favorite little gal.

Don't forget, even though you don't know it, I'm always with you, as long as you keep my memory alive in yor heart...!

Who the fux are you?

 

[illinialex24]

Who the fux are you?

Umm yeah wrong thing to say. He's a good user who knows Junk and he's a very good Jigglypuff. He was a leader here early on and for a short while.

 

[Maniclysane]

Umm yeah wrong thing to say. He's a good user who knows Junk and he's a very good Jigglypuff. He was a leader here early on and for a short while.

All I saw was 48 posts and him bashing everyone. Soz.

 

[Noobicidal]

All I saw was 48 posts and him bashing everyone. Soz.

If you must judge, do it by Join Date, not Post Count >.>

 

[rinoH]

the G is the man he was very helpful back when i just started picking up jiggs if we should be saying anything it should be who are you Maniclysane

 

[Veril]

chill b***es

gawd

 

[__G__]

*sniff* awwww.... look at my old friends who come so quickly to defend me. how nice. But neither my post count nor join date really say anything about me. I've been on these boards for like five years. it's ridiculous how much i used to come here.

As for my latest comment, people should understand the subtle nuances in my dialog that create sarcasm. Also, I guess an important thing to know, which no one really does, is that I'm the jiggs player that Junk plays against, so you (all of you) should prolly listen to him when he comments -- he has good evidence.

LOLZORDS WHO BE THS SCRB SAYNIG ALL THSI STFF???!?!?!?!?!?!?
STFUUUUU NUB LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

 

[Maniclysane]

*sniff* awwww.... look at my old friends who come so quickly to defend me. how nice. But neither my post count nor join date really say anything about me. I've been on these boards for like five years. it's ridiculous how much i used to come here.

As for my latest comment, people should understand the subtle nuances in my dialog that create sarcasm. Also, I guess an important thing to know, which no one really does, is that I'm the jiggs player that Junk plays against, so you (all of you) should prolly listen to him when he comments -- he has good evidence.

LOLZORDS WHO BE THS SCRB SAYNIG ALL THSI STFF???!?!?!?!?!?!?
STFUUUUU NUB LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

Sorry I didn't notice the sarcasm. Now that I read your post I feel really stupid. xD

 

[Tarmogoyf]

If you must judge, do it by Join Date, not Post Count >.>

Lol at the seryotype that 08ers are all idiots.

Join date =/= anything.

 

[Veril]

*Also, I guess an important thing to know, which no one really does, is that I'm the jiggs player that Junk plays against, so you (all of you) should prolly listen to him when he comments -- he has good evidence.

I guessed that.

I stand by my response to his post though.

 

[∫unk]

Junkinthetrunk definitely does NOT have a good jiggs, though, i've seen it... seriously, awful.

I tried but after today I kinda want to give up and just focus on ike as my low tier (maybe Ike's mid idk). Jiggs doesn't go well with me at all.

LOL G and Dante today were teaming holy **** I've never seen 2 Jiggs **** that hard.

And I'd be lying if I said most of my jiggs knowledge doesn't come from G.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Not at all intentional. I think you've done great work and look forward to hearing more. Sorry if I came off as a little harsh. I'm under a lot of stress at the moment so I'm kinda cranky.

I think that you have good info, useful method for practicing, it just needs to be expanded. As you can see I'm more than willing to help.

Oh, and I did get to use the 0-D on Wario. I perfect shielded his f-smash as the opening for the footstool. It was on final D. I used the up-air double jab lock and ended it with a DAC pivot-grab release into rest (for maximum snazziness).

No problem, man, I didn't really think you were. Just wanted to make sure.

Back on the topic of FSing, I am able to do 3 FS jumps on everyone consistantly. After the second jump you have to very quickly hit jump before you go too low, but the second jump has to be a short hop. I can't get a fourth jump in, though. I've let myself run out of jumps over a character, slowed time to 1/4, and mashed SH's as fast as I could. Only 3 came out. I even thought of SHing the first 2 and full hopping the 3rd to possibly get the 4th. Also, I can still only do 2 FS's with a Dair FS combo.

Sarcasm doesn't impress me. Read what you wrote carefully. I'm pointing out your false claim that the main reason you don't FS is because it wasn't in melee. Your statement is false even if it has true facts.

No Melee is a completely different game with a different game engine stop comparing. And who knows what it would have been if it was in melee but making a dumb statement about what would have been is pointless for this discussion.

Again with the speculation of impossibility. Time is relative because at the beginning of melee there wasn't really a community and the game wasn't developed at all. Not saying the Brawl is at it's peak it's not even close but we're much farther along then Melee was at this time for obvious reasons.

Of course not. You failed to mention the key point which is that using other moves actually have a hitbox with range. With FSing you're just throwing out your hurt box which is what makes this possibly impractical.

False. Just because you or other players you know haven't tried this doesn't mean people haven't tried. A well-known easy-to-execute possible gimp on someone doesn't go unnoticed.

This is why Jiggs boards and Jiggs players aren't respected. Straw manning + general ignorance + bad players doesn't lead to great discussion or great development of his game.

Actually I think more than any of this stuff you guys need to learn the basics like picking up patterns before you talk about SDI into rest and stuff. Right now you guys are trying to push the meta when the players aren't there (at least for tourney).

Don't get me wrong I think FS is a largely unexplored area which might amount to something useful (maybe like sh falling u-air grounded footstool lock) and on the whole I have faith in these boards. I want to develop jiggs and am trying but he goes against my playstyle so much :x

Dude, you're really just being a jerk here. You broke one post into 7 pieces to nit-pick all over it. Breaking up posts like that are the essence of flame wars.

Firstly, you contradict yourself several times in this post just so you can say I'm wrong about everything. You call FSing impractical so I'm wrong about its potential, and then you say it is easy to execute so I'm wrong about its useage. When I said that FSing isn't used right now because it wasn't in Melee, it was one fact out of the, like, 100 I posted. Why attack that one? Why have you made such a big deal about it? Also, you can't deny that it isn't at least indirectly the reason it isn't used. I'll try to explain it to you in easy-to-understand segments.

First, however, I'd like to clairify that when I said noone really uses it, I didn't mean literally noone. What I meant was when I go to tournaments I plainly observe that it is not widely used. But thats just common sense, noone's really that ignorent to belive that not one person is using it ever. Though you seem ignorent enough to believe that every word I say is literal.

Alright, here is what I am talking about:

You cannot deny that Footstooling is the single most underdeveloped basic technique in the game. It is not widely used because of this reason. I am saying that this reason is because it wasn't present in Melee. And don't just say stuff like "its impossible to know what would have happened" because that is fairly ignorent on its own. It isn't difficult to notice patterns in the metagame or to know how it devolops. Also, Melee might be different than Brawl, but its stupid to say that they shouldn't be compaired. Obviously, asking which is better shouldn't go on for too long (it is very annoying), but the mechanics are still compairable.

If FSing was in Melee and was widely used, then, as every other basic technique (by basic I mean stuff from the enclosed instruction booklet) it would have been quickly explored by many players and it would have been deemed extremely useful or nearly useless. Nevertheless, most of its uses would be known (but it wouldn't stop more from showing up) and wheather they were many or few, they would be used by the majority of the gaming community.

If FSing was in Mellee but it sucked, then it would be also have been explored fairly quickly to see if it had been redeemed. As before, it would have been found to be either useful or useless, and then used if there was anything to gain from using it.

My point is that if FSing was in Melee, the metagame for it would be much more advanced than it is now, and many of its uses would have been found and incorparated into general gameplay (since we have started to see that it is quite useful).

This is an intellegent extrapolation of how the metagame would have devoloped if FSing was in Melee. Tell me with your own explaination that I this is unlikley, and no, ignorantly claiming that it is impossible to tell how the metagame would work doesn't count as an answer.

Haha. Yes all players need to learn the basics before they chow down on 50 million AT's if it's really ever going to improve them as a player. However you don't won't and can't learn the basics here on SWF if you ask me. That's what you do just by playing the game, so yes these boards are mainly the advanced/theoretical/situational stuff. It's a system that works very well.

I do agree on the not in melee comment. It's much more subtle then it simply not being learned from Melee. I know this for a fact because I never played Melee, so I can't possibly have picked up that subconscious affinity there. : D

I'm not saying that players think about using FSing and then say: "Well, it wasn't in Melee, so lets not use it." I'm saying that because it wasn't in Melee it its metagame is underdevoloped, and as a reasult it isn't widely used. I'm saying that you don't use it beacuse its growth has been stunted and not many people talk about its uses, and therefore you don't know of ways to use it. If it doesn't have a use, its not wise to randomly jump off your opponent's head in battle.

I play Jiggs like I play Bowser. (if you can believe that) The playstyle can be described in one word: punish.

Awesome, so do I! Well, more like I play Bowser like I play Jiggs. Cool, glad to see someone who doesn't find the consept completly weird.

wow. can you even believe the sheer audacity of that marth player? some random marth player commenting on the jiggs boards and assuming he knows our character more than us?! what jiggs does he even play against, anyway, cuz that jiggs better be one of the most awesome jiggs players here? Junkinthetrunk definitely does NOT have a good jiggs, though, i've seen it... seriously, awful. anyway, let me just say that he's totally right about everything he said (except for that little attack on our boards/players -- we prolly dont get respect for a totally different reason).

well, it has been a long time since i've been on these forums, but i've had good reasons. anyway... i'm glad to see that people are still here, trying to figure out stuff to help the puff. You should all be very thankful to Alex for everything he's done here, even if some things didnt quite pan-out, he's absolutely the one who keeps these boards alive.

ok, so i guess thats enough for now. I'll prolly be around and see how things are at random times. Hope to keep seeing an advancement of my favorite little gal.

Don't forget, even though you don't know it, I'm always with you, as long as you keep my memory alive in yor heart...!

I like that word. Audacity. I have to start using that word more often.

Good to see you back, man.

 

[∫unk]

Straw manning (read what I said carefully and my word choice and you'll see I'm not contradicting myself)

General stupidity (broad statements, misuse of words such as "ignorance")

Personal attacks which failed miserably

Terrible debate skills (firstly first, insisting on debating a hypothetically impossible situation as a theoretical reference)

The only thing you got correct was I really have no point in being in this thread.

Edit: Spacing on swf. Toooooo good.

 

[Veril]

or we could drop this argument and not embarrass ourselves. We can't afford this type of infighting. Jiggs needs all the help she can get and a flame war is exactly what we don't need.

Please just let this go, both of you. As a relatively neutral poster I have respect for both of you. That said, I'm very disappointed in you. Resorting to personal attacks (which you both do), and harping on Melee comparisons totally unrelated to the topic at hand is really unnecessary and goes against the general ethos of the Jigglypuff boards.

I want this to be a civil and friendly place. Please try to get along. All I want to do is help improve Jigglypuff. That is what everyone should be focused on. Who is right here is unimportant. I think you're both wrong for acting so pig-headed. Don't let this go on any further. I like you guys. You don't have to fight.

Junk: Jiggernaut IS a good player. He's been an active Jiggs main and isn't stupid, or any of the other things you've called him. You can argue your point without calling him, and the rest of the boards, ignorant. We aren't all n00bs.

Jiggernaut: Don't talk down to Junk. He knows his stuff. Also, recognize when you don't have to get the last word (the melee thing isn't that important). You can defend yourself without calling him a jerk.

<3 Veril

 

[∫unk]

Nah I'm done with Jiggs sorry. Mainly cause I suck with him but these boards didn't help me at all.

Plus you have G who seems willing to learn some stuff now that he's losing :D Before he ***** by doing dumb stuff.

Jigger is stupid for falling for my flame traps.

Looking forward to seeing you guys at tourney if you ever go.

I'm going to WGF (wc) and COT (ec). I'll accept any MM with any Jiggs player. Any amount of money. Neutrals only 2 out of 3.

 

[Maniclysane]

Jigger is stupid for falling for my flame traps.

You're stupid for coming into our forums, complaining that you suck, then flame someone?

I'm going to WGF (wc) and COT (ec). I'll accept any MM with any Jiggs player. Any amount of money. Neutrals only 2 out of 3.

Give me a link to the COT tourny thread.

 

[∫unk]

LOL i love scrubs MM?

stating that you suck =/= complaining

and u don't follow the tourney scene at all if u don't know COT

shouldnt be that hard to find on here

 

[Veril]

I'm going to WGF (wc) and COT (ec). I'll accept any MM with any Jiggs player. Any amount of money. Neutrals only 2 out of 3.

I'll take you up on that. PM me if you're in NY.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Straw manning (read what I said carefully and my word choice and you'll see I'm not contradicting myself)

General stupidity (broad statements, misuse of words such as "ignorance")

Personal attacks which failed miserably

Terrible debate skills (firstly first, insisting on debating a hypothetically impossible situation as a theoretical reference)

The only thing you got correct was I really have no point in being in this thread.

Edit: Spacing on swf. Toooooo good.

Why, man? That really hurts. What you said here is kinda harsh and over the top for what the discussion was. I don't understand why discussing the hypothetical metagame is so horrible. Seriously, I don't understand why you felt you had to come in and nit-pick and make personal attacks against me. I don't care who was right about the debate, but I want to say that I found your debate style very callous. All you did was insult me and discredit all my points. A good debater doesn't attack his opponent directly and counters his argument with reasoning. I don't want to continue arguing with you, but I just wanted you to know that I didn't appreciate your trolling.

or we could drop this argument and not embarrass ourselves. We can't afford this type of infighting. Jiggs needs all the help she can get and a flame war is exactly what we don't need.

Please just let this go, both of you. As a relatively neutral poster I have respect for both of you. That said, I'm very disappointed in you. Resorting to personal attacks (which you both do), and harping on Melee comparisons totally unrelated to the topic at hand is really unnecessary and goes against the general ethos of the Jigglypuff boards.

I want this to be a civil and friendly place. Please try to get along. All I want to do is help improve Jigglypuff. That is what everyone should be focused on. Who is right here is unimportant. I think you're both wrong for acting so pig-headed. Don't let this go on any further. I like you guys. You don't have to fight.

Junk: Jiggernaut IS a good player. He's been an active Jiggs main and isn't stupid, or any of the other things you've called him. You can argue your point without calling him, and the rest of the boards, ignorant. We aren't all n00bs.

Jiggernaut: Don't talk down to Junk. He knows his stuff. Also, recognize when you don't have to get the last word (the melee thing isn't that important). You can defend yourself without calling him a jerk.

<3 Veril

Thanks man, you make a very good point here. You're a very good mediator. You're completely right, so I've decided to stop arguing (see above post). If Junk wants to contribute, then I'm perfectly fine with it, and will work alongside him. If he wants to continue the argument, then I will ignore him. Since everyone seems to have such a problem with my logic in section VI, I will remove the part about Melee. Someone else needs to tell me why FS's metagame is so bad, though.

 

[Maniclysane]

Shiz double post. Soz.

 

[Maniclysane]

Someone else needs to tell me why FS's metagame is so bad, though.

You're basically throwing your hurtbox out in the open, since you aren't using any moves. So far I only footstool over a laggy move to get a combo out, but you should find a way to lead into a footstool. It's your thread. :D

@Junk: Just give me the link

 

[Glick]

Nah I'm done with Jiggs sorry. Mainly cause I suck with him but these boards didn't help me at all.

Plus you have G who seems willing to learn some stuff now that he's losing :D Before he ***** by doing dumb stuff.

Jigger is stupid for falling for my flame traps.

Looking forward to seeing you guys at tourney if you ever go.

I'm going to WGF (wc) and COT (ec). I'll accept any MM with any Jiggs player. Any amount of money. Neutrals only 2 out of 3.

Is COT the clash of titans tournament?

Stop trying to act all smart and just say the full name and or link it.

If its the COT I'm thinking of. I've been planing to go to that, so I guess I'll see you there.

 

[SuSa]

*jumps into flame war*

1. Junk is good, and if you follow the smash scene, you should be able to know what the acronym stands for. We say 'DAC' rather then 'dash attack cancel' because it's shorter, and people should know about it so we do not need to provide a link to it.

COT, WCWS, etc. Big tourneys should be known just by their acronym, especially since typing it out everytime you say "COT" can get tedious, people are lazy, get over it.

2. Junk mains Marth, why is this important you ask? Read #3

3. I will bring up PNDmike's (I hope I got that name right...) chart.

:mewtwo:

 

[Maniclysane]

-We can pivot grab Marth in between fairs
-Down angled ftilt leads to a free rollout
-We can out play Marth off stage
-We can rest him in between a dsmash
-I'm not positive, but we can probably pound through some of his moves
-I don't know about Marth's planking game, but we could probably plank him

Marth has the advantage but it's not impossible.

 

[SuSa]

No match is theoretically impossible (except D3 vs Bowser perhaps =p ) but that doesn't mean it's not such a challenge to put it in a realistically impossible matchup between two players of equivalent skill.


I never dsmash when I'm Marth T_T I find dtilt to be better in absolutely every possible situation, because if they roll behind me I can just fsmash/tilt /reverse dtilt/dancing blades/etc. in that direction... I haven't found a use for dsmash in my playstyle, I use it on -accident- once every... 50 or so matches?


My marth's planking game is actually pretty good, but I'm almost certain Jigglypuff can outplank him =p

Jiggly can outplay much of the cast off-stage, but if the marth see's it as hopeless they may do what I like to do... do my best to spike you :3 yeah for you being light.

Didn't know about the down-angeled ftilt thing....


Also, is that considering that the Marth is perfectly spacing the fair? Is he doing 1 fair or 2? I need more specifics =p

 

[Maniclysane]

The angled ftilt is really new. I brought up the idea that Falco's angled ftilt can lead to a laser lock, and that you could use that with rollout. Noobicidal took it from there, so most of the credit goes to him. xD

I think we can grab you in between either 1 or 2, but I don't know what the landing lag difference is between them. I guess I'd try during the match and if it didn't work I would stop.

 

[SuSa]

Hmm... I never angle my Falco's tilts, but it still leads to a laserlock normally >.> must be tilting without realzing it. ( I also love how a tipped fsmash leads to laser lock :3 )


Anyways, how charged is the rollout? As another question to that =p and does it even matter? lol


No offence, but it seems getting an ftilt on a -marth- of all characters.... would be.... hard >.> to say the least....

Unless the marth really, really sucks at spacing.

 

[Maniclysane]

No offence, but it seems getting an ftilt on a -marth- of all characters.... would be.... hard >.> to say the least....

Unless the marth really, really sucks at spacing.

If we double bair you and the move is stale, we both land right in front of each other, usually. ftilt comes out fast, and I usually accidently use it when I'm stupid and try to do 3 bairs in one short hop. dtilt might out range it though.

 

[SuSa]

Double bair - if you get close enough

move stale - if you hit them enough with it

depending on opponent DI - more situational

ftilt -might- be faster then our dtilt/utilt/ftilt/dsmash (its fast...)/usmash if you're as close as you say (foot hitbox) --- extremely situational.


Not saying impossible, just saying not very likely of two players of equal skill. Then again it's brawl... almost anything can happen =p

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

-We can pivot grab Marth in between fairs
-Down angled ftilt leads to a free rollout
-We can out play Marth off stage
-We can rest him in between a dsmash
-I'm not positive, but we can probably pound through some of his moves
-I don't know about Marth's planking game, but we could probably plank him

Marth has the advantage but it's not impossible.

I find marth as a slight challange to fight. His range is equal/superior to that of jiggs, his mobility is great, and he is very quick. While brawling Dinner (a VERY good marth) I find some weaknesses in the character.

-Marth is very predictable once you see the pattern of spacing and attacks.
>Avoid being grabed. Grab him. (use sheilded dash cancels)
>Airdodge pass him often and shift to a b-air. (his range is too great)

-His recovery is vertical.
>WoP him to the side of the stage. Force him to use dolphin slash above the stage so he is open.
>easy stage spike target.

 

[Maniclysane]

I guess some Marths are predictable. His move set is one that can be switched up a lot, so you can't depend on the idea that they're going to do the same thing over and over. ._,