Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

[Percon]

I stand by Kirby winning 60-40, as I said last time.

Explanation laterrrrr

 

[kiki23]

i would say kirby 60 40 cause kirby is floaty

1.peach is light can get killed at like 97 with freash f samsh
2.peach can get bair the crap out of if you space right
3.peach only strong move against kirby is up smash witch could like at 80
4.kirby can over power peach so easily

imo 60-40 kirby

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ 60/40 Kirby? I guess I have to learn more about the Peach match up then. O_o ☆

 

[kiki23]

i have so much peach experienss but yea i would say 60 40

 

[321BOOM]

I would say 55:45 Kirby
Peach loves to float, so if we can figure out a strategy around this, we could increase our chances of winning by a lot.

some things to be noted:
-stick to the air. it's a little harder for her to land moves on us if you space correctly and play your air camp game like a pro.
-turnips aren't a huge deal if you learn to catch them. also, f-air allows for you to catch the turnip and attack at the same time(could be useful, if peach pulls a turnip as an approach)
-tilts are so important in this MU. you can angle an f-tilt to knock her out of her float, and d-tilt is always great to catch her off guard (+50% of trip, so run up for a f-throw combo)
-if the float isn't spaced correctly from the ground, kirby can just duck to avoid peach's d-air and beat her float with a u-tilt
-peach is easily gimped, and star-shot under a stage can cost them a stock.

-our d-throw>u-tilt combo isn't as effective, since peach can counter with d-air immedately after.
-turnips can be annoying if spammed. We can avoid one, but we can't avoid them all o_o ...
-our bair could be the best approach we have, but it can be easily predicted. so try to switch it up when in the air.

excuse the horrible post, i really didn't know where to start..

3.peach only strong move against kirby is up smash witch could like at 80
4.kirby can over power peach so easily

imo 60-40 kirby

@3.wrong, f-smash is strong as well, also because it comes out so quickly. and f-air is a pretty strong kill move.
#4.how so?

 

[hiROI]

I believe the match up is 5050.

-Kirby Grab Combos are not really useful since we are floaty and we can float.
-We have a counter that lasts a while, so Kirby's bair can be easily baited, but if you can see it coming, we can get punished.
-You dont get gimped easily
-Peach has projectile. Kirby Does Not. We can abuse this
-Peach might have killing problems, but since Kirby will be in the air a lot, it shouldn't be that difficult to land an upsmash which kills at 80

I'll write more later

 

[SkylerSilver]

Finally your doing the Peach Matchup :D Well ummm I have no explanation no this match up. Kirby has stuff on Peach, Peach has no stuff on Kirby. It 50:50 or 55:45 Kirby advantage IMO.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Spam Bair

Oh I wish all match up discussions were this simple

 

[Praxis]

lol it's not 60:40 xD


50:50, or 55:45 Kirby.

Kirby should not ever be killing Peach. She's got way too many options to outspace his kill moves. When she passes 90%, she can just start playing really gay and never die.

However, Kirby's bair shuts down all of Peach's approaches. But she can counter it with:
A) Turnip camping (turnip OOS if Kirby's bair hits her shield)
B) stutter stepped fsmash
C) Sometimes, Dash Attack OOS.
D) Retreating Fair

Basically, Peach is going to camp turnips while Kirby camps bair, with neither truly approaching. The matchup, when played properly, is EXTREMELY gay, and if either character is actually approaching, they will get ***** by the other. Peach can outspace Kirby's kill moves, and Kirby's bair sticks out and prevents Peach from landing her relatively few ones (and her fair will probably be stale from countering bair, and Kirby's bair will be stale from shutting down Peach's game).

No one ever dies. Both should live >150% every stock.


The reason I said maybe 55-45 is because, if you assume both players mess up, Peach gets punished harder in the case of a significant screwup since Kirby's got that fsmash while Peach's usmash is harder to land. But if they're playing properly, this match should go to time. >_> It's a really, really gay matchup.

I remember losing to Dojo's Kirby to the timer when I first figured this matchup out at HOBO16 (MK Banned), LOL.

I stand by Kirby winning 60-40, as I said last time.

Explanation laterrrrr

Niko_K whines about this matchup too much, he fails at it. Tell him to stop approaching.

 

[*JuriHan*]

I believe the match up is 5050.


-Peach has projectile. Kirby Does Not. We can abuse this


I'll write more later

FC anyone...?

 

[Falconv1.0]

What Praxis said. This matchup is stupid, Peach only good options to stop Kirby is to camp like a *****, Kirby's only options to deal with the camping is to camp back. If you are dying before the triple digits, you're being too aggressive, take a chill pill and camp bairs some more. It's mind numbingly stupid, Peach should be banned. =/

lol I saw that match with Dojo. I lawl'd.

 

[hiROI]

SNO: I meant we can just keep camping

 

[aqua421]

i don't have much peach experience but grab combos don't work too well here. It may be just me but i find it easy to hit with forward smash in this match up. 55:45 Kirby imo

 

[Percon]

I think people in general make matchups too even. I don't know what it is, but so many people (especially around the Kirby boards) seem hesitant to give any matchup more than 55:45 in any one character's favor.

I think this matchup is 60:40. Kirby has an advantage but not a large one... it's still kinda close to even. I just think Kirby has way too many answers to everything Peach has.

Everyone keeps saying "watch out for fsmash/bair"... but those aren't our best tools here, though they're still really useful. I think fair and usmash are fantastic in this matchup.

So many Kirbies don't know how good fair is. Fair is like bair, only it doesn't kill and has multiple hits. It's range is phenomenal and it pseudo-combos into itself, so even if at some percents it's not a true combo, you're put into a position where Kirby has the advantage 99% of the time. It spaces almost the same as Bair... I'm not sure what air moves it beats but I wouldn't be surprised if it beat all of them. It's REALLY useful. You can use fair all day and keep bair fresh for killing if you like... and catch turnips with it super easily.

Speaking of which, I think turnips are a non-issue in this matchup. Peach can't really camp with them that well... Kirby can avoid them 100% of the time if Kirby is in the lead and wants to be gay. I punish Niko for pulling turnips out all the time with a running grab (it's her slowest move I believe, and Kirby's running grab is GOOD). So yeah... not terribly useful unless you're throwing them at us when we're off the stage or throwing them upwards at us if we're high in the air, in which case we can't respond to it and you don't have any moves that go out that far any way.

Our usmash trades hits or beats all of your air moves and I'm positive about this (unlike most stuff which I'm never 100% sure on haha). Couple this with Peach's terrible airdodge, short second jump and you get a character who's really easy to punish in the air for doing almost anything. Especially if we land something on her and force her high into the air... we do a much better job punishing peach in those situations than she can to us.

Killing in general Kirby should have the easier time with, even if they are both camping. More potential kill moves + more powerful potential kill moves + easier to land (genreally) kill moves + a situationally killing throw seems like a no-brainer to me. Especially as Praxis said, if a big mistake is made, Kirby can punish it way better. Kirby's most powerful killer is fsmash and Peach's is usmash. Here's a comparison:

Power - Kirby's fsmash kills faster, especially as the edge of the stage, but usmash is no slouch.
Range - Kirby's fsmash is huge... usmash has a tiny sweetspot.
Can you kill with it? - Kirby's Usmash's poor range means it can only punish stupid rolls/airdodges or really lucky trips. Kirby's fsmash can punish all those things, but with greater ease, can force a trip, and can eat tons of Peach's moves.

I think our dair eats a lot of your stuff too (eats air moves) in addition to leading into fsmash sometimes and a grab most of the time (%/spacing dependent)

Another thing: revenge killing. If Kirby and Peach both live to high percents as some so deem, Kirby has a much easier time evening it up. A fresh bair kills Peach no problem and bair is almost impossible for Peach to avoid if the Kirby uses it right. I don't think Peach has as good of a revenge killer. Her fair is ok, though I don't think it kills as well or is as easy to land as bair. Just a thought.

I'm almost positive Kirby has the better grab game. I haven't seen any Peach get out of a fthrow > uair yet, but that's not why Kirby has the better grab game anyway. Kirby's grab range is great and he has a very easy time landing grabs on Peach. Kirby has a somewhat killing grab (that can kill quite efficiently on stages with platforms) and Peach, as far as I know, does not.

It seems like Peach needs to be more precise in this matchup whereas Kirby can get away with simply throwing out attacks sometimes. Maybe that's oversimplifying, though...

I probably forgot stuff but that's why I think Kirby has the advantage. Peach has stuff too, though. She can pile on damage really fast and her utilt beats

ALSO:

Why did I miss ROB discussion? That matchup is waaaaay worse than 45:55 >_> Oh well I don't care about a number that much I guess... but man. That matchup is horrible.

 

[Kewkky]

Why did I miss ROB discussion? That matchup is waaaaay worse than 45:55 >_> Oh well I don't care about a number that much I guess... but man. That matchup is horrible.

Personally, I don't think it's worse than G&W.

I think people in general make matchups too even. I don't know what it is, but so many people (especially around the Kirby boards) seem hesitant to give any matchup more than 55:45 in any one character's favor.

I agree.



... However, I give this MU 55:45, Kirby's.Our bair is just so nasty against Peach, but Peach is just so nasty against Kirby.

*dair>(dair>)uair>utilt* *SHfair>jab/grab* *dair>(dair>)nair*

Just learn your DI's directions (up and away from Peach) and take a chill pill, like Falcon and Praxis have said. And like Percon says, turnips don't affect Kirby at all (unless it's good ol' stitch-face... watch out for that guy), our many jumps and bair (plus shield>zcatch) assure us of that.

 

[Percon]

I hate ROB soooo much... maybe it's just me but I think it's terrible. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait until next time to discuss him...

 

[Praxis]

And like Percon says, turnips don't affect Kirby at all (unless it's good ol' stitch-face... watch out for that guy), our many jumps and bair (plus shield>zcatch) assure us of that.

Not quite.

If you bair our shields while we have a turnip in hand, we get a free turnip hit most of the time. We can force you to waste jumps during your recovery with turnip throws and edgeguard you decently using nair (beats your FC pretty well and comes it in 3 frames and covers our entire hurtbox, can be done with invulnerability by floating against the ledge and waiting for the release).

We can glide toss turnips up to force airdodges and chase with an aerial if you're trying to air camp us (Wario's hate this).

Turnips aren't completely useless, and in fact IMO the key to this matchup.

 

[Kewkky]

Not quite.

If you bair our shields while we have a turnip in hand, we get a free turnip hit most of the time. We can force you to waste jumps during your recovery with turnip throws and edgeguard you decently using nair (beats your FC pretty well and comes it in 3 frames and covers our entire hurtbox, can be done with invulnerability by floating against the ledge and waiting for the release).

We can glide toss turnips up to force airdodges and chase with an aerial if you're trying to air camp us (Wario's hate this).

Turnips aren't completely useless, and in fact IMO the key to this matchup.

The only thing I find overrated in this matchup whenever I play it is the turnips, seriously. It's too easy to float under a turnip, zcatch a trnip while hovering around it then throw it down, upB to the stage and avoid grabbing the edge even if it means we'll get hit (at least we won't die), dair/downB to land, or airdodge while landing (whic is what you want). So as you can see, we have number of options, including the ones that are bent on mindgames and baiting, which I haven't mentioned.

I believe the key to this MU is spacing your fairs properly, Praxis. Kirby can't break through a fair>jab/fair>grab. The frames in between those attacks (when the fair's lag is cancelled) are too few for us to abuse those and punish, an if we try attacking and beating your fair, we lose. It's that good, and I also believe it beats our bair.

 

[Metatitan]

The only thing I find overrated in this matchup whenever I play it is the turnips, seriously. It's too easy to float under a turnip, zcatch a trnip while hovering around it then throw it down, upB to the stage and avoid grabbing the edge even if it means we'll get hit (at least we won't die), dair/downB to land, or airdodge while landing (whic is what you want). So as you can see, we have number of options, including the ones that are bent on mindgames and baiting, which I haven't mentioned.

I believe the key to this MU is spacing your fairs properly, Praxis. Kirby can't break through a fair>jab/fair>grab. The frames in between those attacks (when the fair's lag is cancelled) are too few for us to abuse those and punish, an if we try attacking and beating your fair, we lose. It's that good, and I also believe it beats our bair.

You don't find a projectile that can punish your Bair OoS as dangerous at all? Or a projectile with HUGE diversity? Tell Niko to step up his turnip game

 

[Kewkky]

You don't find a projectile that can punish your Bair OoS as dangerous at all? Or a projectile with HUGE diversity? Tell Niko to step up his turnip game

Hell, I find the fact that you have a projectile in your hands a GOOD thing, it means you can't smash us, can't tilt us, can't play an aerial game, can't even grab... All you can do is throw it. What's stopping us from grabbing you instead of bairing your shield?

Edit: Plus the fact that the time you spend throwing the turnip from a safe distance means we get a frame advantage to bair you from above/ shield>OoS bair, it's not really a bad thing, per sé to have a projectile in your hand... Frame advantage due to your throwing frames (and it IS something I take advantage of)! If you glide toss towards us it means we get a free grab/shield>OoS bair, or if you glide toss away, we just avoid the turnip or bair it and make it disappear... Or we can shield>zcatch it and use it to our advantage, thanks to our multiple jumps. *zdrop over peach>fall next to the turnip>attempt some random thing that I haven't thought of yet*

In fact, it might keep us at bay by baiting us to rush at you, but that's a mindgame, and it's not something we can use to discuss in MU's, now, is it?

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

Hell, I find the fact that you have a projectile in your hands a GOOD thing, it means you can't smash us, can't tilt us, can't play an aerial game, can't even grab... All you can do is throw it. What's stopping us from grabbing you instead of bairing your shield?

Edit: Plus the fact that the time you spend throwing the turnip from a safe distance means we get a frame advantage to bair you from above/ shield>OoS bair, it's not really a bad thing, per sé to have a projectile in your hand... Frame advantage due to your throwing frames (and it IS something I take advantage of)! If you glide toss towards us it means we get a free grab/shield>OoS bair, or if you glide toss away, we just avoid the turnip or bair it and make it disappear... Or we can shield>zcatch it and use it to our advantage, thanks to our multiple jumps. *zdrop over peach>fall next to the turnip>attempt some random thing that I haven't thought of yet*

In fact, it might keep us at bay by baiting us to rush at you, but that's a mindgame, and it's not something we can use to discuss in MU's, now, is it?

I normally don't post in matchup threads, but seeing this is a bad thing. A VERY bad thing. Peach can fsmash you with a turnip in hand(Link has the same trick with his bombs). She can also float and still be able to do aerials with a turnip in her hand. Also, if you happen to hit out shield with an aerial like bair, Peach can normal toss, not glide toss, and it'll gain that 3 frame advantage you saw us talking about.

Turnips OoS means normal tossing, not glide tossing. And since bair will be stuck out against the shield and it only has one hitbox, you run a high risk of getting hit as a result. That's why Praxis said they're so key to the matchup. They keep you at bay, or at least should, and if you rush Peach she gets to deal with something not bair thanks to turnips, which leaves Kirby open.

I, personally, think the matchup is even if not slightly in Kirby's favor because of bair and its properties, though. You just can't afford to underestimate Peach at any time, because that's when she can turn the tables on you.

 

[Kewkky]

I normally don't post in matchup threads, but seeing this is a bad thing. A VERY bad thing. Peach can fsmash you with a turnip in hand(Link has the same trick with his bombs). She can also float and still be able to do aerials with a turnip in her hand. Also, if you happen to hit out shield with an aerial like bair, Peach can normal toss, not glide toss, and it'll gain that 3 frame advantage you saw us talking about.

Turnips OoS means normal tossing, not glide tossing. And since bair will be stuck out against the shield and it only has one hitbox, you run a high risk of getting hit as a result. That's why Praxis said they're so key to the matchup. They keep you at bay, or at least should, and if you rush Peach she gets to deal with something not bair thanks to turnips, which leaves Kirby open.

I, personally, think the matchup is even if not slightly in Kirby's favor because of bair and its properties, though. You just can't afford to underestimate Peach at any time, because that's when she can turn the tables on you.

*I never said that you glide toss OoS. I meant the glide tossing as an option peaches normally use while fighting.

Any character can do an aerial while holding an item. Now, doing it CONSISTENTLY in the heat of a match is a problem. Peach's fsmash is not something Kirbies should fear, either. If they're in range when you decide to use fsmash, then it's their fault OR you set them up for the fsmash.

And... How is it possible that Peach can do a technique that deals with both an attack (Kirby's bair) and a grab (Kirby's grab) with an OoS turnip toss? If we don't attack, we grab. And considering Brawl's metagame in generall, it's like a rock-paper-scissors game:

*Attacks beat grabs.---|>
*Grabs beat shields.----|> === Dodges don't beat anything.
*Shields beat attacks.--|>

A grab takes care of your OoS game, since no shield can beat a grab, ever. And considering how ******** Kirby's grabgame is (including his grab range, me and my friends found ourselves laughing over how I randomly grabbed a Marth from tipper range WHEN HE TIPPERED ME), I believe that having a turnip at hand and being grounded is a bad situation for Peach, especially if you're expecting a bair so you can counter with OoS things.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

*I never said that you glide toss OoS. I meant the glide tossing as an option peaches normally use while fighting.

Normally, yes, but if the Peach knows that, after her shield is hit by a bair she can toss the turnip without gliding it and possibly hit, glidetossing won't be the norm in high level play.

Any character can do an aerial while holding an item. Now, doing it CONSISTENTLY in the heat of a match is a problem. Peach's fsmash is not something Kirbies should fear, either. If they're in range when you decide to use fsmash, then it's their fault OR you set them up for the fsmash.

No, not every character can do an aerial while they have a throwing item like a turnip in their hand. Beam swords? Yes, everyone can. Turnips? No, they can't. They have to get rid of it first before they can do a normal aerial, something that Peach can get around thanks to floating. And Peach players can and will do it consistently thanks to it. Also, Peach's fsmash is something to look out for unless she gets a frying pan. Tennis racket when sweetspotted can kill stupid low, and her golf club has a surprising amount of range on it. And my point was that she can do it WHILE HOLDING A THROWABLE ITEM, not how 'good' Peach's fsmash is. ^_^;

And... How is it possible that Peach can do a technique that deals with both an attack (Kirby's bair) and a grab (Kirby's grab) with an OoS turnip toss? If we don't attack, we grab. And considering Brawl's metagame in generall, it's like a rock-paper-scissors game:

*Attacks beat grabs.---|>
*Grabs beat shields.----|> === Dodges don't beat anything.
*Shields beat attacks.--|>

A grab takes care of your OoS game, since no shield can beat a grab, ever. And considering how ******** Kirby's grabgame is (including his grab range, me and my friends found ourselves laughing over how I randomly grabbed a Marth from tipper range WHEN HE TIPPERED ME), I believe that having a turnip at hand and being grounded is a bad situation for Peach, especially if you're expecting a bair so you can counter with OoS things.

I never knew Kirby could grab while doing a bair in the air. It's really clear when Kirby takes to the air, and considering he can't come back to the ground quicker than a fastfall, that leaves Peach a good amount of time to do something other than sit in her shield and watch you land and run in for a grab. In any case, I was trying to tell you that IF you hit her shield with a bair AND she has a turnip in her hand, you're then open for a regular turnip toss from her shield. Please stop twisting my words. Though, I meant to say rush Peach with bairs, so that was probably a mistype on my behalf. Sorry about that.

 

[Kewkky]

No, not every character can do an aerial while they have a throwing item like a turnip in their hand.

Zdrop>any aerial... I do it with ZSS and her pieces a lot. You drop the item then do an aerial in the direction you want to attack, and you catch the item while doing that aerial. Kirby never needs to use nair as an approach, so you can just use the cstick to attack in whatever direction you desire while catching the item. See, it's difficult, but possible.

And the floating able to help you attack while holding turnips, well I don't use Peach so THERE.

I never knew Kirby could grab while doing a bair in the air. It's really clear when Kirby takes to the air, and considering he can't come back to the ground quicker than a fastfall, that leaves Peach a good amount of time to do something other than sit in her shield and watch you land and run in for a grab. In any case, I was trying to tell you that IF you hit her shield with a bair AND she has a turnip in her hand, you're then open for a regular turnip toss from her shield. Please stop twisting my words. Though, I meant to say rush Peach with bairs, so that was probably a mistype on my behalf. Sorry about that.

If bairing your shield costs us % thanks to a turnip toss, then what would dairing your shield, landing behind you, then grabbing do? What about fairing your shield and ffing once the 3rd hit is about to happen, then grabbing once we land? We don't just run towards you and grab, lots of Kirby's attacks literally COMBO into a grab, you not being able to do anything at all to escape the grab thanks to Brawl's minimal BUT EXISTENT hitstun (including bair at some %s, don't know them).

Please stop twisting my words.

Wasn't intentional, sorry.

 

[Praxis]

The only thing I find overrated in this matchup whenever I play it is the turnips, seriously. It's too easy to float under a turnip, zcatch a trnip while hovering around it then throw it down, upB to the stage and avoid grabbing the edge even if it means we'll get hit (at least we won't die), dair/downB to land, or airdodge while landing (whic is what you want). So as you can see, we have number of options, including the ones that are bent on mindgames and baiting, which I haven't mentioned.

I believe the key to this MU is spacing your fairs properly, Praxis. Kirby can't break through a fair>jab/fair>grab. The frames in between those attacks (when the fair's lag is cancelled) are too few for us to abuse those and punish, an if we try attacking and beating your fair, we lose. It's that good, and I also believe it beats our bair.

Hell, I find the fact that you have a projectile in your hands a GOOD thing, it means you can't smash us, can't tilt us, can't play an aerial game, can't even grab... All you can do is throw it. What's stopping us from grabbing you instead of bairing your shield?

Edit: Plus the fact that the time you spend throwing the turnip from a safe distance means we get a frame advantage to bair you from above/ shield>OoS bair, it's not really a bad thing, per sé to have a projectile in your hand... Frame advantage due to your throwing frames (and it IS something I take advantage of)! If you glide toss towards us it means we get a free grab/shield>OoS bair, or if you glide toss away, we just avoid the turnip or bair it and make it disappear... Or we can shield>zcatch it and use it to our advantage, thanks to our multiple jumps. *zdrop over peach>fall next to the turnip>attempt some random thing that I haven't thought of yet*

In fact, it might keep us at bay by baiting us to rush at you, but that's a mindgame, and it's not something we can use to discuss in MU's, now, is it?

Yep, you officially have no understanding of this matchup at all.

Peach can use her ENTIRE aerial game while holding a turnip by floating before using aerials. She can use all of her aerials while holding the turnip.

Holding the turnip gives her a 3 frame OOS attack. That's FASTER than your grab and can be used to punish anything you hit her shield with.

If Peach is holding a turnip, that's very dangerous for you. She can punish grab attempts with dair (remember, Peach alone can use all her aerials while holding items) and punish any attack with the turnip.

Turnips are Peach's key in the matchup. You're probably facing Peaches that aren't utilizing them properly.



Also, as to the first part; about getting back to the stage when I'm throwing turnips? You waste a jump and distance catching and throwing the turnip, then when you up-B we float nair you back off stage and now you have less jumps and have to repeat the process. *shrug*

If bairing your shield costs us % thanks to a turnip toss, then what would dairing your shield, landing behind you, then grabbing do?

Groundfloated Bair OOS or jump/float/dair OOS.

What about fairing your shield and ffing once the 3rd hit is about to happen, then grabbing once we land?

We hit you with the turnip. It's lagless out of shield and comes out in less frames than your grab, plus you still have a couple extra frames from FFing and landing.

And the floating able to help you attack while holding turnips, well I don't use Peach so THERE.

And you've clearly never fought a decent one and are pulling this theorycraft out of your rear.

 

[Kewkky]

And you've clearly never fought a decent one and are pulling this theorycraft out of your rear.

My blood rushed to my face when I read this part. People that act like you is the reason I'm always so pissed when I write my experiences in MU discussions. I'm pulling what I have done and learned from fighting peaches like Excel_Zero and his crewmates, not from using both Peach and Kirby. So excuse ME for not being a part of your personality and knowing all you know.

Edit: I'm not even gonna discuss anymore. I will say what I said when the DK MU was up: In theory, everyone's broken. In practice, people can barely pul these things off, much less consistently.

In practice, it's all easier than it seems in theory. Write and talk whatever you desire, any number is fine. Kirby is a bait-and-punishment character, in theory he will suck compared to how he actually plays in practice. That's enough for me to step out of this Peach MU leaving you believing that Peach is an all-powerful being.

 

[Triple R]

We don't just run towards you and grab...

I think most people would be surprised at how often this works in any matchup


Anyway, regarding Peach, I feel the match up is pretty even and don't underestimate Peach, but still slightly in Kirby's favor. 55:45 Kirby

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Mikey Lenetia posted on this thead and I missed it?! ****, I really need a rematch with your Peach since getting KO'd by Peach's D-Air doesn't feel right. O_o ☆

☆ So far most ratio's are saying 55/45 Kirby, second from that is 50/50 so far. It's still hard to counter pick Peach for a stage advantage, IMO. ☆

 

[Kewkky]

☆ Mikey Lenetia posted on this thead and I missed it?! ****, I really need a rematch with your Peach since getting KO'd by Peach's D-Air doesn't feel right. O_o ☆

☆ So far most ratio's are saying 55/45 Kirby, second from that is 50/50 so far. It's still hard to counter pick Peach for a stage advantage, IMO. ☆

Uneven stages, like Lylat and maybe Picto. But I'm pretty sure Praxis will say I couldn't know less and say something else.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Pictochat is good when fighting Peach since Kirby can abuse Pictochat more than Peach. I'm not sure about Lylat Cruise because I never fought one on one with Peach there. I heard they have a great success rate of hitting you with U-Smash there as well, but we have Stone tricks on that stage which makes us even on Lylat Cruise. =P ☆

 

[A1lion835]

And we have ninja spikes on lylat ^_^

 

[EdreesesPieces]

This is one of my favorite matchups to play. IMO whoever knows how to space better wins, and nothing else. Strategies aren't very deep or complicated, and combos don't exist much. Whoever spaces better wins, they both have about equal spacing abilities and range, and both have extreme trouble killing each other. It's dead even. I think I'm 13-1 SETS against Kirby in tournament. Kirby does have the advantage on Pictochat and Yoshi's Island, and Peach has the advantage on Brinstar and Jungle Japes.

Keep in mind I speak from an experienced point of view. I've played a lot of Kirby players, and I have played MogX and Twilight Kirby in tournies. Also, Dark Pch played Chu a bunch and Chu and Dark both agree it's even. You guys are basing this matchup off bad Peaches so much it's kind of sickening.

I can't believe you'd say that Turnips don't effect Kirby. I reliably gain about 65% per stock on Kirby with turnips alone. One thing that really helps is when you just throw them vertically then stutter step forward smashes backwards. It's a wall Kirby cannot approach. He's too floaty to have time to land and make a ground approach, so when he's already in the air what you do is throw turnips up, charge fsmash. if he comes in range you let go, if he doesn't you've timed the turnip to cover your *** when you release forward smash. Also forward smash has suchhh little cool down time, if you stutter step it properly Kirby cannot really punish this, making it very frustrating for him to make an approach. Peach has the SAME problem because of Kirby's hitboxes on his back air and she can't get too close because she's gotta be weary of the hammer. This is as dead even as matchups get.

What percon said:

"It seems like Peach needs to be more precise in this matchup whereas Kirby can get away with simply throwing out attacks sometimes. Maybe that's oversimplifying, though..."

this is 100% true. However to determine the matchup you gotta assume both players are precise and high level players. Under this scenario it becomes even. It's highly in Kirby's advantage at a low level, which is why a lot of people here think it so. Peach has to be very precise, but when she is, Kirby doesn't have special answers to deal with it, making it about even.

Also, it's impossible to prevent Peach from pulling turnips, and it's impossible for kirby to punish her for doing it, if the Peach knows how to do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHppOHdDZ2s (obeserve sliding turnip pulls at 2:20 and beyond) Peach can literally pull out a turnip while doing a wavedash the length of half of smashville. GL punishing that one.

 

[Darknid]

hey guys I've decided to try Kirby as a secondary for DK and I wanna know how he does against Wario, can anyone give me a quick heads up?

 

[Percon]

^ Slight disadvantage I'd say. DK would probably do better (if the infinite isn't a factor )

 

[T-nuts]

for some reason i have a hard time believing peach can hit kirby with a turnip OoS if bair is fast-falled and perfectly spaced. i know you said the attack is 3 frames but if kirby spaces well he should be a little distance from you. does the turnip get thrown AND reach kirby in 3 frames? and kirby cannot pull up his shield before this?

sorry, ive never played a really good peach.

 

[Praxis]

My blood rushed to my face when I read this part. People that act like you is the reason I'm always so pissed when I write my experiences in MU discussions.

I rarely make statements like that, and I apologize because, in retrospect, my phrasing was too harsh. But honestly, your comments on turnips make no sense. Turnips are the KEY to this matchup :/


I'm sorry for the harshness in my tone, but I do have a lot of experience in this matchup, and learned a lot from Edrees and Sky in how to handle it when I first experienced it. The first thing both of them taught me was how to utilize turnips for that matchup, so my immediate reaction to someone stating "turnips are overrated in this matchup" was to scoff.

But that's no excuse for my tone, so, please accept my sincere apology.

Also, as to your statement about us thinking of Peach as a god character, I've only said even or 55 Kirby's favor. I balked at 60:40 Kirby.

hey guys I've decided to try Kirby as a secondary for DK and I wanna know how he does against Wario, can anyone give me a quick heads up?

Pick Peach.
She's Wario's worst matchup.
Hit me up on AIM or a PM if you need tips on it.

 

[Asdioh]

I lost to a Peach on wifi and he told me I need to use Bair more.
*shrug*

It's a pretty hard matchup, but it's about even if you're doing it right. I'll hafta play Rowan next time I see him :D

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ What Praxis say is true when it comes to the Wario match up on Peach. Also to add, Wario's one of my most hated fights with Kirby because he can surprise attack you, and run away from harms way. You can't kill him because he's big and fat and big and fat, but that fatty can moves faster than most characters which is weird. ☆

 

[A1lion835]

I hear matchup discussion is dead. New character? (if we do, I'm leaning towards wa-wa-waaaaaario).

50:50 was the general consensus for peach, right? Or 55-45 either one's favor. Putting it as 50:50 for now. *johns about quickly rereading the discussion after getting back from his trip*

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I guess we should start on Wario, though the match up is going to be the same 45/55 Wario. I say a match up that needs to be changed in thought, maybe Luigi? I think that match up is slightly in Kirby's favor. ☆