[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[spyrl-9]

Is there a thread for Boss ideas, or is that included here as General Discussion?

 

[Cyn]

All SSB4 stuff goes here.

 

[DekuBoy]

First and foremost, the second we get everything we will get bored, so how about a channel with DLC on it so you can swap out some characters for no extra cost! have their own achievments to get them, a custom character builder, swap out stages and items too!

sigh

When Melee was out we had to wait pretty much 6 years for a sequel with more filler. But did we complain? No because people were busy playing the game. Why can't people do the same with Brawl?

 

[Big-Cat]

sigh

When Melee was out we had to wait pretty much 6 years for a sequel with more filler. But did we complain? No because people were busy playing the game. Why can't people do the same with Brawl?

Because the Brawl community is full of scrubs.

 

[BBQTV]

who are you calling a scrub?

 

[Big-Cat]

Meta Knight and those who insist on making rules that affect MK in particular instead of just being blunt and banning him. And it's not just that either.

 

[BBQTV]

wasn't it the srcubs that want to ban metaknight


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0OFpyW47w

 

[Big-Cat]

It depends on how you look at it. Anti-Ban insists on making rules to keep him. Pro-ban believes, aside from proving with frame data that planking, scrooging, etc. are broken, that he should be banned because he over centralizes the metagame and that the numerous rules implemented implies that something is wrong.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Guys, last I checked this was the SSB4 thread...

 

[Big-Cat]

I thought this was a social thread and the common topic was SSB4.

 

[Shorts]

Hey guys! I went camping... not my idea >.>

Anyways, Pit, he has one new game. Does that mean he deserves another rep? I would say no. Playing as Palutena (sp?) feels like it would be like using arceus against pikachu. A god vs mortals.... not my idea of fun :/

 

[Big-Cat]

Since KI is Greek based, Palutena is just as prone to death as anyone else. Anyway, whether she gets in or not depends on how popular she is for the most.

 

[Spydr Enzo]

Hey guys! I went caping... not my idea >.>

Anyways, Pit, he has one new game. Does that mean he deserves another rep? I would say no. Playing as Palutena (sp?) feels like it would be like using arceus against pikachu. A god vs mortals.... not my idea of fun :/

I'd have to agree with you. But at the same time you have to remember, there are already some strange combinations in the game. For example, Bowser and Peach. In the Mario Universe, Peach doesn't stand a chance and must rely on Mario to save her. But in the Smash
Universe, Peach could easily kick Bowser's spikey-shelled ***. So Palutena maybe wouldn't be weird for that reason that you mentioned.

Still I don't think Kid Icarus needs another character. But Sakurai may want to show off his game, and a character could be a likely way to show it off. He could use a few items or a stage and maybe some music though. Plus, he neglected to give the Kirby series a new character until Brawl.

I think it's safe to say that we won't see another Kid Icarus character in SSB4.

 

[Shorts]

Since KI is Greek based, Palutena is just as prone to death as anyone else. Anyway, whether she gets in or not depends on how popular she is for the most.

Well, im assuming the game itself will be pretty popular. it doesnt LOOK like a flop. And she or the medusa girl, as of now, will be the most likely candidates. It doesnt look like pit will be adventuring with any sort of partner.

 

[Nessgod]

I vote Marina from Mischief Makers, for she could be a great brawler.

 

[DekuBoy]

Hey guys! I went camping... not my idea >.>

Anyways, Pit, he has one new game. Does that mean he deserves another rep? I would say no. Playing as Palutena (sp?) feels like it would be like using arceus against pikachu. A god vs mortals.... not my idea of fun :/

I would actually like it if both Palutena and Medusa got in. It bugs me how there isn't any female villain reps. If Sakurai can have three Kirby reps then it's certainly possible.

Also was that interview where Miyamoto said he wants to make a new character-driven franchise discussed? Cause I'm excited.

 

[BBQTV]

I thought this was a social thread and the common topic was SSB4.

your right, this is a social thread were the common topic is ssb4

I would actually like it if both Palutena and Medusa got in. It bugs me how there isn't any female villain reps. If Sakurai can have three Kirby reps then it's certainly possible.

Also was that interview where Miyamoto said he wants to make a new character-driven franchise discussed? Cause I'm excited.

i think all we know is that he wants to make a new character and nothing more

 

[spyrl-9]

I'm all for Medusa.
Like DekuBoy said, we don't have any female villians.

 

[spyrl-9]

Also, an idea for a story boss...

Helmasaur King

-LOZ: A Link to the Past

Remember this guy? Of course, in Smash Bros., you'd see more of a profile view of him.

As a boss, you would come to a large room and see him laying on the right side of the screen.
Get close enough, and his eyes would start to glow, and he would rise up on those big rhino legs of his, roar, and start whipping around that giant spiked ball and chain he calls a tail. The body of Helmasaur King is about the size of Galleom in his tank form, and the spiked ball on his tail is a little bit smaller than Bowser's overall bulk.

Attack his head to break down and destroy his helmet. An easy target, since it's huge and the closest part of him to attack. What makes it hard is that he's not going to just sit there and take it.
He will shoot a Bowser-sized fireball. When he opens his mouth, get ready to jump, as it travels, ground level, across the screen. Also, if you stand in front of him, whacking on him for too long, he will use his helmet to head-butt you, dealing decent knockback. If you try to stay back the whole time and shoot him (if you are using someone with ranged attacks), he can walk toward you, or worse: charge at you like a rhino, dealing an even stronger headbutt (but giving you more time to dodge as he charges you). He will always try to back up to the right of the screen again afterward, though.

The most noticable threat he presents is his tail. It will sway around, above him. When he pulls it up like a scorpion, and pauses for a second, get ready to move as he strikes it down at you (this move has quite a reach). Occasionally, he will also roar and start thrashing his tail around and right in front of him. Just stay away when he does this.
Keep moving, watch for the signs of his attacks, and hit him with strong attacks and/or quick combos, and that tough plate of armor on his head should eventually shatter.

After losing his protective helmet, you'll notice a giant glowing orb in the middle of his fleshy forhead. You know what to do.
A difference is that he now moves a little faster, and his headbutt attacks are replaced by a high-damage bite. Hopefully, you're already used to moving out of the way when he opens his mouth, and he still will shoot that fireball, too. Use the same tactics as before, and take him down for good.

 

[spyrl-9]

Also, a few assist trophies:


Manhandla

-The Legend of Zelda series

About the width of 2 Bowsers, it poses a large enough threat to want to take it out.
Manhandla moves slowly back and forth, firing short-ranged fireballs (Mario's Neutral B) from a random "hand". As it is attacked, it's "hands" are destroyed, but it moves faster each time, and spits fire more frequently.


Dr. Robotnik/Eggman

-Sonic the Hedgehog series

Floating onto the screen in his "flying wrecking ball" from the original Sonic game, Robotnik moves slowly from one side of the screen to the other. The ball at the end of the the chain, swinging like a pendulum, deals damage and decent knockback.

Chain Chomp

-Mario Bros. series

This one moves similar to how he does in Mario 64. Hopping around, 'til someone gets close enough, then... CHOMP! Damage and knockback for you!
Wherever you get the assist trophy is where he is "staked".


-Sorry for the low quality pictures. All I have is MS Paint.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I would actually like it if both Palutena and Medusa got in. It bugs me how there isn't any female villain reps. If Sakurai can have three Kirby reps then it's certainly possible.

I'm all for Medusa.
Like DekuBoy said, we don't have any female villians.

Medusa might be alright if she wasn't a complete blank in her NES appearance and we knew anything beyond her design in the 3DS game.

Latching onto characters specifically because of gender or morality is probably the most shallow reason to support someone though.

 

[Enzo]

Isaac from golden sun,

 

[Shorts]

Medusa might be alright if she wasn't a complete blank in her NES appearance and we knew anything beyond her design in the 3DS game.

Latching onto characters specifically because of gender or morality is probably the most shallow reason to support someone though.

True.

I do agree that we need some gender variety and villians. But, lets pick ones more deserving, and not just pick them because they fit the bill.

Villains:
Bowser Jr.
Vaati
Mewtwo
Claus
Blood Falcon
King K Rool
Fawful
Majora
Black Knight
Nightmare (Soul Caliber)

Females:
Daisy
Toon Zelda/Tetra
Female Pt.
Dixie Kong
Lyn
Krystal
Bubbles (I think is a female)
Momohime (Muramasa The Demon Blade)

Speaking of Momohime, i think she fits the bill in all these places:
[x] Female Character
[x] Villain
[x] Third Party Character
[x] Unique Moveset
[x] representing a smaller franchise
[x] interesting character bio/background

 

[BBQTV]

i hope the ext smash is like brawl minus. brawl minus is a 1000 times better then vbrawl ever could be

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Actually, I don't know what's worse; supporting characters solely for affirmative action or justifying them through inane superlatives.

 

[DekuBoy]

Medusa might be alright if she wasn't a complete blank in her NES appearance and we knew anything beyond her design in the 3DS game.

Latching onto characters specifically because of gender or morality is probably the most shallow reason to support someone though.

Well in fairness I just love villains. I'm not gonna try and defend her possibilty of getting in.

Did Sakurai list things a character needed to get in ages ago? I've completely forgotten.

 

[Life]

I'd like to see Plusle+Minun if Pokemon were to get somebody new. IIRC, they had unused data files in Brawl.
Sounds interesting although IDK if another Ice Climber mechanic is needed. And I concur with the Isaac crowd.

My biggest wish, though? AI updates via Wi-fi. How cool would that be, to get a new AI level every so often?

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Well in fairness I just love villains. I'm not gonna try and defend her possibilty of getting in.

Did Sakurai list things a character needed to get in ages ago? I've completely forgotten.

GDC 08 son. Here's my favorite summary from a guy here on SmashBoards:

1. The character's inclusion must make people want to play the game.

This is infinitely harder than you and I think, because we are so jaded by our own perspective. I would insist that Viewtiful Joe would be the best character ever, but I'm not sure people would really want the game more. Neither of us would have ever thought of ROB, and yet "ROBOT" was the CROWD FAVORITE by FAR in the GDC matches the CAs had. Everyone loved him! We as gamers are way too biased to make this decision easily.

2. The character must be unique.

The character must have identifying features and abilities that would make them different from existing characters, so that they add something to the game.

3. The character must fit into the style of Super Smash Bros.

The character obviously has to be able to fit into the framework of how smash works, obviously Pac-Man and L Block would not work. (My examples, not his.)

4. They must contribute to the game balance.

Everyone has to fit together. Every new character must counter some characters and be countered by others, and they must fit in one giant contiguous mesh.

I always refer to the first one as appeal and I consider that to be the most important factor, even if it is kinda subjective. Also I believe Medusa's visual design is definitely appealing, but obviously it's too soon to decide anything else about her at this point.


edit: if you're interested, you can hear her Japanese voice in the JP version of the E3 trailer

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm not surprised to see that Pit's JP VA reprised her role.

 

[DekuBoy]

Toise you spoil me.

Now am I mistaken or do Nintendo do a small show near the end of the year? I may be delusional but I would like to know.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think they do. I believe they had one last year. If not, they've shown us enough aside from confirming Xenoblade and The Last Story.

Off topic, but I wanted to share this with you guys.

Amaterasu in action in MvC3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6L-Q6gVCtc

 

[BBQTV]

holy **** kuma you made my day!

 

[DekuBoy]

Oh that wolf. I should really finish Okami. I'm still pissed they cut out the Fantastic 4.

Back to Smash: which looks better Xenoblade or Last Story?

 

[ElPanandero]

Dude we got Super Skrull, Fantastic Four blow comapred to him.

On topic: Ima go Last Story.

 

[Shorts]

So this morning i was thinking, when it comes down to the mario reps. the only representative candidates with a realativly good chance are Bowser Jr. and Toad, right? I mean i could list another few with a smaller chance like fawful, Daisy, and Waluigi. But are toad and Bowser Jr. the only two to look out for?

 

[UberMario]

Since we really haven't talked about the physics and gameplay mechanics that much (Mostly it's been talk about character, stage, and music lists), I decided to come up with an idea. What if SSB4 had customizable physics? That way there wouldn't be a million+ projects to modify the physics by people hacking the game.

Super Smash Bros Tussle Gameplay Options:

Presets:
-Classic (N64)
-Melee
-Brawl
-Crazy
-Technical
-Arena
-Broken
-Nimble
-Jupiter
-Moon
-Default (A knew mode that "defines" standard SSB4 play, though I think that IF these all existed, Technical would be the one used in tournaments)

Explanation of the "new physics modes" on that list:

For Crazy:
-Pretty much this video sums it up, but if you don't want to look, here's what it basically is:
-High Knockback
-High Hitstun
-High Speed
-Insane Movement
-No Shield/Dodging whatsoever
-Illogical knockback
-Large Hitboxes
-Almost no ending lag for attacks
-Infinite Recovering Ability (until you get hit outside the ko area)
-Infinite-lasting Ammo
-Grab Escapes give the grabber high knockback and damage.
-Footstools IKO above pits.

For Technical:
-All recovery moves result in freefalls, like in the previous three games, but it applies to ALL recoveries, including moves like Luigi Cyclone and Skull Bash.
-Shields don't shrink by themselves
-Shields only can parry about 30% of damage
-Shields are practically invisible
-Shields take as long as two minutes to regenerate, resulting in the player having to decide how and when to use shields.
-Shieldstun lasts up to 10 seconds, but the player can move around slowly in a dazed walk.
-Projectile weilders have an "unlimited" amount of ammo that last long amounts of time, allowing characters like Snake to have as many mines as they want, characters like Toon Link to use arrows as an edgeguarding-tool, or for characters like Mario to build a fireball hazard in a pit for strategic purposes.
-If there's a timed out match, the character that did the most damage is the victor, not necessarily the player with the most stocks.
-If items are ON, a halo of light will glow for three seconds around the spawn point before the item actually appears, allowing a possible return of items in competitive play.
-Air Dodging is not possible.
-If an opponent is able to escape a grab
-All attacks can be cancelled before their hitboxes appear by pressing the shield button, basically allowing for feints.
-Taunts can be cancelled
-Rolls can be reversed mid-way.
-Rolls can be used to fall off platforms by holding the R button.
-Moderately fast, like Melee.
-Moderately heavy gravity, like in SSB64.
-Tripping only triggered by specific attacks, not randomness.
-Footstools spike the player like a minor meteor attack, but can be teched out of falling.
-Any stage that normally has hazards or moving parts (i.e. WarioWare)
-Characters can swim in water, but not drown unless spiked.
-Dashdancing is possible
-A tech similar to DACUS and Wavedashing gets an animation, showing the character running while doing a specific attack, almost like a dash attack but involves using the C-Stick (or Wiimote movement) alongside the movement stick.
-Characters can still be comboed even if they just fell onto the ground.
-The amount of times you press the "pummel" button while doing a throw determines how powerful it is, letting the player either make a short, comboable throw or a final blow.
-The game DOES NOT end when their is only one player surviving, that player must manage to be on the stage, eliminating the use of suicide kos as finishing moves (which would result in a draw, similar to the timed out rule)
-The amount of consecutive matches will be definied pre-battle (i.e. 1 win, 2 wins, 3 wins, etc.)
-Counterpicks are selected BEFORE the matches are started IN-GAME, characters can still be switched, but it will switch directly to the appropriate CP stage, if both players press A at the end of a match they'll skip the character change too.



For Arena:
-Stamina (300HP, but can be moved up or down)
-Caged Arenas (Special Stages with no escapable area are used exclusively for this mode)
-Hitstun becomes stronger with lower HP
-Attack speed becomes slower with lower HP
-Recoveries don't result in freefalls
-Items only appear in the far corners of the arena
-Comboing results in more damage than normal

For Broken:
-Pretty much what it sounds like
-Items rain from the sky like crazy when turned on, and even bounce around like rubber!
-Tripping happens very often
-Most moves have insane knockback (like 30% KO)
-Recoveries can be used infinitely
-Virtually no startup or ending lag for attacks
-Throws IKO
-Speed is faster than Melee's Lightning mode with the Bunny Hoods
-Smash Balls are really common, like more than one can appear at a time if the item is turned on in the item switch.
-Stage Hazards are constantly present, i.e. F-zero cars will keep zooming by.

For Nimble:
-Infinite Recoveries
-Extremely Speedy
-Attacks have less lag
-Attacks have low knockback, but are extremely combo-able

For Jupiter:
-No recovering ability, including mid-air jumps
-Jumping is difficult
-Aerials are near useless
-Getting someone over the edge is pretty much a sure-fire ko if they don't grab the ledge.
-Up Throws don't do much
-Hitstun resulting in landing on the ground allows for heavy comboing

For Moon:
-Very light gravity
-high knockback
-spiking is near impossible

Default:
-Somewhere in between Melee and Brawl in terms of speed
-No tripping
-Player must be on the stage to be victorious (the game waits till either the last remaining character is standing or is ko'd to determine whether they are victorious)
-Standard Sudden Death
-Items appear normally (can still be turned off like with the other modes of course)
-Brawl's airdodge mixed with Melee's gravity.
-Each recovery can be used ONCE
-Characters can still attack after using a recovery, just like Sonic and Snake in Brawl.


Customizable features also could be manually done (including basing it off one of the presets), but there would be too many for me to list at the moment.




Also to add on to the customizability, SSB4 hopefully will have:

-Texture Customizability (Don't want to worry about questionable outfits? A wifi option to either copy the opponent's textures (when on friend mode wifi) OR to only use textures in your game's "catalog" to make it stay T rated (since some people are perverted online, which is why Mario Kart DS's customizable emblems didn't return to MKWii)

A texture template (.psd) could be available on the Smash Site to make it possible to make your own characters, plus a converter to turn it from an editable paint file to a format the game will read.

-A model/animation/hitbox/etc. creator for the pc that can convert to the game's model design (maybe at a price of $10-$50 so Nintendo has a reason to make it available) but only allow custom characters/stages/items available for offline and friend mode online play. (A. because of similar reasons to the texture issue, and B. so that people with horrendous connections don't take forever to load, custom music and stage textures would be still usable online since the others still play on the same stage design)

Pushing it, I know, but you have to think Sakurai is probably not happy with all of the people that mod this game and would want a way to prevent it from happening in whatever the next game is, right?

-Music Importer (Honestly I don't know why they didn't do this before, Excite Truck did)

-A PC-designed Stage Creator (With a simple (Brawl-like) mode where you just "build with blocks", and a more serious one where it can be as detailed as you want it to be.

Am I forgetting anything?

 

[Big-Cat]

The amount of time working the physics would be a nightmare. It's not like they have all the resources in the world. They just need to have a physics engine that will appeal to everyone, just like Melee did. The reason why we have a bunch of mods, aside from it being possible, is that a lot of people did not like the physics. There was never a problem with the last two games and their physics. No one tried to change it up or anything.

I'm fine with texture customization, and doing it on the website would be nice, but I don't know how things would work. It might be better to have a T model available in the game and work from there. I'm okay with a filter, but I think that's going to run into some issues online.

I don't think a character creation mode that in depth would ever happen.

Custom music should have been a basic feature, but an importer would be better for this kind of game.

I don't know what to say with the Stage Builder idea.

 

[UberMario]

Well what I meant by the stage part was that if you just want a basic stage with no overwhelming details you could make a stage like in Brawl (where you just grab ramps, blocks, etc, and place them where you want) or if you're great at modeling, do it on a computer and make something as good as (or even better than) the stages that represent the games. (i.e. add the individual details, such as water, structures, etc. even custom-created content)

Also the reason no one tried to change up 64's or Melee's physics was because they couldn't Melee hacking is possibly younger than Brawl hacking and is apprently only at the stage where texture and music edits are possible. SSB64 hasn't even gotten past texture edits and is just exploring stage hacking aspects. Brawl was apparently a little more, erm, "open" in the loosest sense.

I honestly doubt that HAL spent that much time on the physics engine and certain aspects are pretty easy to change (i.e. some of the ideas for the customizing of physics I had were tripping frequency, gravity, speed, victory requirements, hitstun amount, hitlag amount, knockback levels, etc. it's not reworking the whole engine, it's just making some properties more or less pronounced than "usual".)

 

[Master JBone07]

This is my Dream roster for SSB4

Mario Series:

Mario
Luigi
Peach
Bowser
Dasiy (1st appearance)
Dr. Mario
Dry Bowser (1st appearance)

Earthbound Series:

Ness
Poo
Lucas
Jeff
Paula

Fire Emblem Series:

Marth
Roy
Ike
Lyndis (1st appearance as playable fighter)
Black Knight (1st appearance)

WarioWare Series:

Wario
Kat & Ana (1st appearance as playable fighter{s})

Pokémon Series:

Mewtwo
Pichu
Pikachu
Growlithe (1st appearance)
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Arcanine (1st appearance)
Pokémon Trainer (Infernape, Torterra,, Empoleon) (Pokémon's first appearance)


Metorid Series:

Zero Suit Samus
Samus
Dark Samus (1st appearance)


Donkey Kong Series:

Donkey Kong
Diddy kong
Funky Kong (1st appearance)
Cranky Kong (1st appearance)

Zelda Series:

Link
Toon Link
Young Link
Ganondorf
Zelda/Sheik

Star Fox Series:

Fox
Falco
Wolf
Krystal (1st appearance)

Third Party Characters:

Ratchet (1st appearance)
Sonic
Shadow (1st appearance)
Tails (1st appearance)
Crash Bandicoot (1st appearance)
Crunch Bandicoot (1st appearance)
Snake
Dr. Nefarious (1st appearance)
Alister Azimuth (1st appearance)

 

[Life]

Perhaps SSB4 could use a Chrono Trigger character as a 3rd-party newcomer? Or does Square want to keep that series as it is?