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I mean combos, but since weaker moves would only cancel into stronger moves, it would just mean you could do things like jab -> tilt -> smash or something, and the move would only cancel if it connects (kind of like IASA frames on hit, but you can't cancel a stronger move into a weaker move). DI would still be in effect, so you wouldn't have long chains of guaranteed hits or anything. Some moves could also be jump cancellable on hit. I just think it would make the game more fast-paced and fun, and offer another way to balance movesets.
Who here is exactly a noob? =P Theres noobs on every site, so it shouldn't be something new. =P
@Ubermario: Nice movest! There's lots of moves and possiblities for Toad in SSB4, the point is simply knowing the history of Toad. ;D And I still think he has more chance than any Mario character. =P
Probably the best way to describe what he's saying is to compare it to Marvel's magic series, revolver actions in BlazBlue, and the normal chains in Tatsunoko.
How come you wouldn't want to see that kind of stuff? In before "It's not Smash."
I think people are scared of seeing guaranteed combos in smash, but like I said in my other post, I could still see DI being implemented in this kind of combo; if you hold away, you'll ASDI each hit away which should force them to react and change their follow-up.
I mean combos, but since weaker moves would only cancel into stronger moves, it would just mean you could do things like jab -> tilt -> smash or something, and the move would only cancel if it connects (kind of like IASA frames on hit, but you can't cancel a stronger move into a weaker move). DI would still be in effect, so you wouldn't have long chains of guaranteed hits or anything. Some moves could also be jump cancellable on hit. I just think it would make the game more fast-paced and fun, and offer another way to balance movesets.
Sort of like how Ike will do a short combo when you press AAA? I mean more complicated than that but... it will lead into a stronger atack like that? I can live with that.
Jab-tilt-smash would actually be nice.... Ok. I'm jumping on the band wagon for something such as this, as long as, like you said, there weren't long chains of hits and what not.
Probably the best way to describe what he's saying is to compare it to Marvel's magic series, revolver actions in BlazBlue, and the normal chains in Tatsunoko.
How come you wouldn't want to see that kind of stuff? In before "It's not Smash."
I will admit that I have only gotten my toes wet (if that) in the fighting genre. Only played Smash Bros. and Mortal Kombat vs. DCU. .... so when I think "combo", I think KOMBO. As in, someone running around pressing every other button on the controller at once while doing some crazy-*** unblockable moves that take half the lifebar away.
As long as the moves stay simple and combos do not become long, complicated, devastating, and the only form of attack (/that's used), then I'm fine with it.
I will admit that I have only gotten my toes wet (if that) in the fighting genre. Only played Smash Bros. and Mortal Kombat vs. DCU. .... so when I think "combo", I think KOMBO. As in, someone running around pressing every other button on the controller at once while doing some crazy-*** unblockable moves that take half the lifebar away.
As long as the moves stay simple and combos do not become long, complicated, devastating, and the only form of attack (/that's used), then I'm fine with it.
From what I've heard, MKvs.DC pretty much sucks to begin with so I would take that with a grain of salt. Not only that, but 3D fighters function much more differently than a 2D one. If you want to see examples of 2D combos, take at look at these challenges for Makoto in BlazBlue. The first two show you how to do each of the specials, but everything after is a combo. Despite what it seems, you can't just button mash your way through. This is a gigantic misconception about fighting games that needs to die.
Those are by no means fast-paced. Those look pretty good. I guess my main problem is combos getting to "epic". Like flying up into the sky after hitting them up and then slapping them down in a sort of cutscene. I think that video only showed one ike that though.
For the most part, combos like that would be good. You get what I mean by the "epic combo" thing right? Put it this way: i don't want combos to be too dramatic.
This is an exhibition from one of my favorite games. Like Kuma said, these kind of combos definitely aren't button mashing; they actually require a lot of precision and are usually situational (a combo might be completely different depending on what move you lead with, or how far away you are when you start it). Also note that in smash, there are no corners to get stuck in, only edges, so a lot of those corner loops wouldn't be possible.
But one thing that is true about fighting games is that the other player usually loses control of their character during a combo. DI is one of my favorite aspects of smash because it means that no combos are guaranteed, and it ensures interaction between players (even during long chains). I did mean fast-paced combos, like a mix of melee/fighting games, but also combos that are always escapable and depend on the decisions of both players, not just one. They would just be another expression of smash's depth.
An idea I had: proration in smash. Proration is basically damage scaling during combos (kind of like staled moves in smash, but it only lasts for as long as the combo is unbroken); the more consecutive hits you land on an opponent, the weaker your hits become, until eventually it doesn't combo anymore. In smash this could amount to staling moves really fast--if you cancel a move, the next move is significantly weaker, so it has less damage, less hitstun, and will make it easier for your opponent to escape. Proration would reset whenever your opponent gets out of hitstun, and wouldn't decrease if you avoid canceling moves.
This could be used as a really interesting way to balance the system. For example, you could tweak the proration on jabs -> tilt -> smash so that that chain would actually do the same amount of damage as landing the smash outright, rather than doing extra damage and sending the opponent further (more like hitconfirming a jab into a smash). Or if you try to waveshine someone with Fox, shine prorates every time you cancel it with a jump, so the next shine would have less stun, and it wouldn't be an infinite.
I also have an idea for DI that would balance out the comboing system, but I'm not sure if it would mean anything to the people here.
You know, I wouldn't mind seeing the Pokemon Trainer from Pokemon FireRed & LeafGreen get replaced with the new Pokemon Trainer from Pokemon HeartGold & SoulSilver.
Replace Red with Gold. Replace Squirtle with Chikorita. Replace Ivysaur with Quilava. Replace Charizard with Feraligatr.
Oooh! I said the dreaded "R" word! It is the end of the world! LOL
Pokemon Trainer
Down + B: Pokemon Change
The same thing but with different Pokemon.
Final Smash: Triple Finish
The same thing but with different Pokemon.
Chikorita
B: Razor Leaf
Chikorita does the same thing she did when she was a Pokeball Pokemon in Melee and Brawl. Hold the B button to make her shoot many leaves straight head.
Side + B: Magical Leaf
Chikorita swings her leaf to make another leaf fly out. You can control the direction with the stick while holding down B. The leaf will fly across the stage very quickly much like Pit's arrows.
Up + B: Vine Whip
Chikorita does the same thing Ivysaur did in Brawl. The vines grow from Chikorita's neck where there are buds around it.
Quilava
B: Flamethrower
Quilava does the same thing Cyndaquil did when it was a Pokeball Pokemon in Melee. Hold the B button to make him flip upside-down and shoot flames from its back.
Side + B: Flare Blitz
Quilava charges and get covered in flames. Then he launches straight ahead much like Pikachu's Side + B move.
Up + B: Flame Wheel
Quilava spins into a flaming wheel as he leaps up in the air.
Feraligatr
B: Whirlpool
Feraligatr spins around and summons a cyclone of water. The whirlpool hits enemies multiple times like Meta Knight's B move. Feraligatr cannot move around with Whirlpool like Meta Knight can.
Side + B: Aqua Tail
Feraligatr turns around and swings his tail around. The tail produces a whirlpool that hits enemies multiple times.
Up + B: Aqua Jet
Feraligatr summmons water and it covers all over him. He then launches through the air much like Charizard's Up + B move.
Then again, I think it would be epic to have a real Pokemon battle between the two trainers and their Pokemon just like the Gold vs. Red match on Mt. Silver... but most people say that there should be only one Pokemon Trainer in Smash and that no one should ever be removed and replaced, so...
Hmmm, I am going back from my hiatus on this topic a little early because there is something related to Metroid Other M that ties into Smash 4.
Apparently, Metroid Other M has been getting mixed reviews. Here is some just to give you an idea on what the "consensus" on this game is:
G4: 2/5
Destructoid: 6.5/10
Game Informer: 6.5/10
GoNintendo: 7/10
GiantBomb: 4/5
Nintendo Power: 8.5/10
Gamespot: 8.5/10
IGN: 8.5/10
Famitsu: 35/40
Joystiq: 4.5/5
Wired: 9/10
I was particularly shocked with GoNintendo's review, and it seems my worst fears came to fruition with this project. They apparently turned Samus into a whiny emo brat instead of the stoic warrior she has traditionally been. The game has no sense of isolation, and feels more like a generic action game than a Metroid game. Also, the story is pretentious it seems. Also, many complained about simply using the wii-remote to control a third-person action game.
I had a lot of faith in Sakamoto (the director of Metroid, Super Metroid, Metroid Fusion, and Zero Mission, essentially the father of Metroid) to deliver on this title, and was anxious to see his take on what Metroid should be like in 3-D. It seems he went back to Metroid Fusion and simply made it 3-D and amplified its faults (more linearity, even less isolation and foreboding, more dismal plot).
As to how this relates to Smash 4, Sakamato is basically to Metroid as Sakurai is to Smash Bros, many considered Sakamato infallible and many fans (including myself) had confidence in him to deliver a stellar Metroid game despite questionable design decisions. It looks like Sakamoto may have just created the Metroid game to give Hunters a run for its money as the worst one (though personally, I think Other M looks to be better than at least Hunters, Metroid 1, and Metroid 2). It would be not the first time a series creator to a series I loved ruined a series I loved (looks at the tombstone to the Chrono series).
Anyway, although Sakurai has done a magnificent job with every Smash Bros. game, he is not infallible, and he can very well make something that will make most of us cringe.
I still plan to buy Metroid Other M (heck, I played and beaten even Hunters in its entirety). However, my faith in Sakamato has been shattered, and this game will probably make me lose even more interest in gaming.
I plan to return to make more comments about Metroid Other M once more is known about it.
Also, Other M pretty much cements that Team Ninja is a washed up developer with most of its talent gone.
Hmm... how does that fare for Ridley? He is still too big in that game, isn't he? If that's the case, then Toise is right when he said that live action commercial =/= in-game model. Anyway, I still expect at least a new stage and a bunch of new trophies from Other M in SSB4.
Hmm... how does that fare for Ridley? He is still too big in that game, isn't he? If that's the case, then Toise is right when he said that live action commercial =/= in-game model. Anyway, I still expect at least a new stage and a bunch of new trophies from Other M in SSB4.
You know, I wouldn't mind seeing the Pokemon Trainer from Pokemon FireRed & LeafGreen get replaced with the new Pokemon Trainer from Pokemon HeartGold & SoulSilver.
Replace Red with Gold. Replace Squirtle with Chikorita. Replace Ivysaur with Quilava. Replace Charizard with Feraligatr.
Oooh! I said the dreaded "R" word! It is the end of the world! LOL
Pokemon Trainer
Down + B: Pokemon Change
The same thing but with different Pokemon.
Final Smash: Triple Finish
The same thing but with different Pokemon.
Chikorita
B: Razor Leaf
Chikorita does the same thing she did when she was a Pokeball Pokemon in Melee and Brawl. Hold the B button to make her shoot many leaves straight head.
Side + B: Magical Leaf
Chikorita swings her leaf to make another leaf fly out. You can control the direction with the stick while holding down B. The leaf will fly across the stage very quickly much like Pit's arrows.
Up + B: Vine Whip
Chikorita does the same thing Ivysaur did in Brawl. The vines grow from Chikorita's neck where there are buds around it.
Quilava
B: Flamethrower
Quilava does the same thing Cyndaquil did when it was a Pokeball Pokemon in Melee. Hold the B button to make him flip upside-down and shoot flames from its back.
Side + B: Flare Blitz
Quilava charges and get covered in flames. Then he launches straight ahead much like Pikachu's Side + B move.
Up + B: Flame Wheel
Quilava spins into a flaming wheel as he leaps up in the air.
Feraligatr
B: Whirlpool
Feraligatr spins around and summons a cyclone of water. The whirlpool hits enemies multiple times like Meta Knight's B move. Feraligatr cannot move around with Whirlpool like Meta Knight can.
Side + B: Aqua Tail
Feraligatr turns around and swings his tail around. The tail produces a whirlpool that hits enemies multiple times.
Up + B: Aqua Jet
Feraligatr summmons water and it covers all over him. He then launches through the air much like Charizard's Up + B move.
Then again, I think it would be epic to have a real Pokemon battle between the two trainers and their Pokemon just like the Gold vs. Red match on Mt. Silver... but most people say that there should be only one Pokemon Trainer in Smash and that no one should ever be removed and replaced, so...
Interesting idea. The main thing I'd do different though is use Typhlosion instead of Feraligatr and Croconaw instead of Quilava. (Mostly because Quilava doesn't have that many options to grab with and Croconaw would be a better 2nd stage fighter than him)
Those are by no means fast-paced. Those look pretty good. I guess my main problem is combos getting to "epic". Like flying up into the sky after hitting them up and then slapping them down in a sort of cutscene. I think that video only showed one ike that though.
For the most part, combos like that would be good. You get what I mean by the "epic combo" thing right? Put it this way: i don't want combos to be too dramatic.
You mean you don't want "epic" attacks like the Ultra Combos in SFIV? I totally understand as SSB is designed so you can play with up to four players. While two players could be experiencing a momentum shift, the other two are just waiting for it to be over.
But one thing that is true about fighting games is that the other player usually loses control of their character during a combo. DI is one of my favorite aspects of smash because it means that no combos are guaranteed, and it ensures interaction between players (even during long chains). I did mean fast-paced combos, like a mix of melee/fighting games, but also combos that are always escapable and depend on the decisions of both players, not just one. They would just be another expression of smash's depth.
When you look at it this way, this is a new type of 50/50 mixup. As you know, in some situations, you have the option of doing the overhead, which you have to block high, or the crouching attack which must be blocked. If you guess which way they're going to block, then you get rewarded. However, I don't think DI should be super strong. If you had it where you had to guess for every single attack in a combo, that makes things overly complicated. I'd have that applied to attacks with significant knockback.
An idea I had: proration in smash. Proration is basically damage scaling during combos (kind of like staled moves in smash, but it only lasts for as long as the combo is unbroken); the more consecutive hits you land on an opponent, the weaker your hits become, until eventually it doesn't combo anymore. In smash this could amount to staling moves really fast--if you cancel a move, the next move is significantly weaker, so it has less damage, less hitstun, and will make it easier for your opponent to escape. Proration would reset whenever your opponent gets out of hitstun, and wouldn't decrease if you avoid canceling moves.
I'm fond of this idea, but I don't think hitstun should be reduced. If the damage scaling is done properly, you don't have to worry about being infited because the combos will soon get to a point where it's a waste of time to prolong a combo because it doesn't do enough to make it worth it. Not only that, but some infinites could easily be punishable if the timing's off.
I also have an idea for DI that would balance out the comboing system, but I'm not sure if it would mean anything to the people here.
Hmmm, I am going back from my hiatus on this topic a little early because there is something related to Metroid Other M that ties into Smash 4.
Apparently, Metroid Other M has been getting mixed reviews. Here is some just to give you an idea on what the "consensus" on this game is:
G4: 2/5
Destructoid: 6.5/10
Game Informer: 6.5/10
GoNintendo: 7/10
GiantBomb: 4/5
Nintendo Power: 8.5/10
Gamespot: 8.5/10
IGN: 8.5/10
Famitsu: 35/40
Joystiq: 4.5/5
Wired: 9/10
I was particularly shocked with GoNintendo's review, and it seems my worst fears came to fruition with this project. They apparently turned Samus into a whiny emo brat instead of the stoic warrior she has traditionally been. The game has no sense of isolation, and feels more like a generic action game than a Metroid game. Also, the story is pretentious it seems. Also, many complained about simply using the wii-remote to control a third-person action game.
I've been hearing the Malstrom fanboys constantly saying this kind of stuff. I'm just going to wait and find out for myself how she is protrayed in this game and how it's played. As for the D-Pad in 3D thing, at least they're trying something diferent. It's meant to be played like a modern NES game and so it does.
Anyway, although Sakurai has done a magnificent job with every Smash Bros. game, he is not infallible, and he can very well make something that will make most of us cringe.
When you look at it this way, this is a new type of 50/50 mixup. As you know, in some situations, you have the option of doing the overhead, which you have to block high, or the crouching attack which must be blocked. If you guess which way they're going to block, then you get rewarded. However, I don't think DI should be super strong. If you had it where you had to guess for every single attack in a combo, that makes things overly complicated. I'd have that applied to attacks with significant knockback.
SDI (smash DI) and ASDI (automatic SDI) are types of DI typically useful against moves that hit more than once. SDI lets you move around by inputting directions during the hitlag of a move. ASDI is similar, but you hold the direction before getting hit. (Hitlag are the frames when both characters are frozen, before any knockback takes effect, and SDI moves you a set distance during those frames.)
First, I would make moves cancellable during their hitlag, and make hitlag last a little bit longer. This way, smash could easily incorporate fighting-game-style revolver action without hindering normal smash-style combos, because hitlag doesn't really affect anything else.
Next, I would standardize SDI and ASDI--limit the number of inputs you can do for SDI to one, and make it interchangeable with ASDI (so they both take you the same distance, and there's no particular reason to use one over the other; SDI is just harder and stresses the limitations of human reaction time). During normal chains, the defending character could 'control' their trajectory even though there isn't any knockback. The goal would be to give the defending player some control over how long the combo lasts and where it takes them, but not necessarily force either player to guess. Hopefully if it was implemented well, the other player could use their mix-ups midcombo and compensate somewhat for DI. Normal, trajectory-changing DI would still take effect during knockback (i.e. for stronger moves like you said, launchers, or moves that aren't canceled).
tl;dr normal chains would be treated like multi-hit moves, and you could smash DI/ASDI around to some extent, but normal DI would still affect smash-style combos, aerial chains, or whatever.
I'm fond of this idea, but I don't think hitstun should be reduced. If the damage scaling is done properly, you don't have to worry about being infited because the combos will soon get to a point where it's a waste of time to prolong a combo because it doesn't do enough to make it worth it. Not only that, but some infinites could easily be punishable if the timing's off.
I think hitstun scaling is necessary because as far as smash goes, we don't need damage in order to kill. If you had some kind of loop that could move your opponent across the stage, you could easily push them to the ledge and edgeguard them, and it would be functionally the same as an infinite even if it does marginal damage. Scaling hitstun would essentially be like having a guard/combo meter that empties faster with each hit, and gives them a chance to escape once you've exceeded the limit. Also, a move in smash generally has less hitstun as it stales anyways, so this wouldn't really be changing anything.
tl;dr normal chains would be treated like multi-hit moves, and you could smash DI/ASDI around to some extent, but normal DI would still affect smash-style combos, aerial chains, or whatever.
Sounds reasonable. Overall, I just want to see the DI system to be a pretty simple, but extremely vital component of mixups (perhaps defining them?). I was just thinking of where the outcome is either you do or don't and the opponent must guess.
I think hitstun scaling is necessary because as far as smash goes, we don't need damage in order to kill. If you had some kind of loop that could move your opponent across the stage, you could easily push them to the ledge and edgeguard them, and it would be functionally the same as an infinite even if it does marginal damage. Scaling hitstun would essentially be like having a guard/combo meter that empties faster with each hit, and gives them a chance to escape once you've exceeded the limit. Also, a move in smash generally has less hitstun as it stales anyways, so this wouldn't really be changing anything.
I think scaling hitstun will just complicate things during the balancing process. If you check the frame data and look to see where it could happen and then make it so the infinite is impossible to do. Adding in things like Guilty Gear's Barrier Burst and Gravity Scaling could help quite a bit. The former gets you out of combos with a universal get-off-me attack and the latter prevents infinite juggles.
Outside of the obvious inclusion of a new Other M themed Metroid stage, some musical tracks, and new trophies I fully expect the more dramatic change to come in Samus' "model". We always knew Samus was an athletic individual who excelled in combat, but until now her athleticism seemed weighed down by her Power Suit. Emphasis was more on her weaponry and attacking from a distance versus rushing down and throwing an enemy into submission preceding a point blank shot to the torso. To sum it up Samus always appeared more machine then human, sometimes it takes a game over screen just to remind us an individual is actually in there. This is probably what Sakamoto had in mind when he wanted to emphasize Samus humanity, though it seems he swung the pendulum to far the other way... Everyone can agree, after Metroid: Other M Samus has changed, and there is no turning back (for better or worse).
How will this pertain to Samus in the Super Smash Brothers future? Following up with my original paragraph I fully believe Samus will see a change in moves and speed. She will retain her specials but her standard moves will probably see some changing. As it stands she needs some type of improvement anyways given her poor performance in Brawl. What will those be? I'm not sure nor do I have a clear idea as I have yet to play Other M myself. From video alone we can see a much more dynamic and more aggressive character. The one change I am almost certain on will be her speed, in Other M apparently walking is foreign to Samus. You either run, jump, or stand.
I like the idea of a barrier break in smash, especially if you get one every stock. But that still doesn't solve degenerate combos that might slip by the developers' notice. I feel like gravity scaling might actually facilitate combos in smash, since fastfallers are traditionally the easiest characters to combo. Hitstun scaling is just the most elegant way to put a ceiling on combos because it's already programmed into smash's game engine.
Some games outside of GG/Blazblue use something like a juggle meter, which depletes faster as the combo goes on, but fills by a certain amount whenever you hit them. When the meter runs out, you can't hit them anymore until they tech. This is basically the same concept, but we don't need a meter because we can just scale hitstun. And if the damage/hitstun scaling resets when they're out of hitstun, I'm sure there would be some creative ways to end combos while the other player is in a bad position to escape, punish, and start another combo.
Hmmmm interesting developments for DAY 10:
G&W has been given tha boot(or apparently should based on the votes) so...
SSB64:All starters+C.Falcon
SSBM:Roy, Young Link
SSBB:Lucus
Cut: Toon Link, G&W
And our vote today goes to...MEWTWO
You know tha drill, vote and nominate 3 Smash vetrens not already on the list.*stare*
Hmmmm interesting developments for DAY 10:
G&W has been given tha boot(or apparently should based on the votes) so...
SSB64:All starters+C.Falcon
SSBM:Roy, Young Link
SSBB:Lucus
Cut: Toon Link, G&W
And our vote today goes to...MEWTWO
You know tha drill, vote and nominate 3 Smash vetrens not already on the list.*stare*
Also, I am bringing up Geno again because I just learned of an interesting development. Apparently, Square-Enix is developing Mario Sports Mix for the Wii. The last Mario sports game that Square-Enix developered actually featured some generic Final Fantasy characters as playable characters (Ninja, Moogle, White Mage, Black Mage, and Cactuar). However, that game did not feature Geno. Square-Enix also developed a Mario x Dragon Quest board game cross over called Itagaki Street DS, and while that game featured a remix of the Super Mario RPG Mushroom Kingdom theme, it did not feature Geno. Perhaps the developers will remember Geno when developing this Mario sports title. Right now, Geno is a longshot character compared to the likes of Bowser Jr, Toad, and Paper Mario. However, a playable appearance in Mario Sports Mix could do wonders for his playable chances as well as revitalize his Smash fanbase.
Bowser Jr. is generally important and does have a big chance because he is the second villain of the Mario series.
Toad is generally considered unimportant and doesn't have a big chance unless he gets a major role in a non-spin-off Mario game even though he has been playable in doezens of spin-off Mario games.
Geno is generally considered unimportant and doesn't have a big chance unless he gets a playable role in only one SPIN-OFF Mario game?
Bowser Jr. is generally important and does have a big chance because he is the second villain of the Mario series.
Toad is generally considered unimportant and doesn't have a big chance unless he gets a major role in a non-spin-off Mario game even though he has been playable in doezens of spin-off Mario games.
Geno is generally considered unimportant and doesn't have a big chance unless he gets a playable role in only one SPIN-OFF Mario game?
Ahh, of course. His legion of rabid fanboys. How could I have forgotten them? *smacks head*
Anyway, I am pretty sure Mario Sports Mix won't have Geno or any of the Mario RPG characters. The most likely scenario is that some Final Fantasy and/or Dragon Quest characters might appear as unlockable characters just like in Mario Hoops 3-on-3.
OK. Toad and Bowser Jr... makes sense, but PAPER MARIO? Huh? When did he have a huge chance? =P
As for Geno, even with 1 game, it's still not enough. Especially if it's a SPINOFF game. =P There's lots of Mario RPG characters for a role and just popularity isn't enough. (Though I do support Goombella for SSB4 <3)
Goombella isn't getting in either. She doesn't have arms and Sakurai said characters who have no arms cannot fight as Smash characters.
As for Geno, popularity is not the only deciding factor. There are other factors to account for like importance, iconic status, creative uniqueness, and the physical capacity to function like a Smash character, in addition to having Sakurai's biased interest.
Toad, Bowser Jr., and Geno have all these in common except for importance and iconic status. Geno lacks these because he is not important to the whole franchise and is not one of the faces of the whole franchise like Toad and Bowser Jr. are. We also don't know if Sakurai is biased toward them or not.
Also, it is not fair that Geno should become playable in SSB4 before Toad and Bowser Jr. just because he was in only one spin-off game and in only one Mario RPG game from 1996 when Toad and Bowser Jr. have been in countless spin-off games and countless main games since 1985 (in Toad's case) and 2002 (in Bowser Jr's case). It is like adding Stanley the Bugman to represent the Donkey Kong series when there are better characters to represent the series like Dixie Kong and King K. Rool.
Goombella isn't getting in either. She doesn't have arms and Sakurai said characters who have no arms cannot fight as Smash characters.
As for Geno, popularity is not the only deciding factor. There are other factors to account for like importance, iconic status, creative uniqueness, and the physical capacity to function like a Smash character, in addition to having Sakurai's biased interest.
Toad, Bowser Jr., and Geno have all these in common except for importance and iconic status. Geno lacks these because he is not important to the whole franchise and is not one of the faces of the whole franchise like Toad and Bowser Jr. are. We also don't know if Sakurai is biased toward them or not.
Also, it is not fair that Geno should become playable in SSB4 before Toad and Bowser Jr. just because he was in only one spin-off game and in only one Mario RPG game from 1996 when Toad and Bowser Jr. have been in countless spin-off games and countless main games since 1985 (in Toad's case) and 2002 (in Bowser Jr's case). It is like adding Stanley the Bugman to represent the Donkey Kong series when there are better characters to represent the series like Dixie Kong and King K. Rool.
As for Goombella, I can see the point there. I was just suggesting though. =P Anyway, I agree with the whole thing. The only Mario characters deserving is Toad and Bowser Jr. Geno makes no sense to add since he was only in 1 game. 1 game isn't enough to represent, even with popularity.
Well as you have noticed Samus was debuffed from Melee to Brawl I am just looking for a better version of Samus Aran and also maybe another character from the Metroid games such as a space pirate or something that can be playable. Also it would be nice to see Metroid Prime to make an apearence as a boss battle.
the ONLY mario new mario character i want in is Paper Mario, but maybe thats just me.
I'd also see the Epic Yarn version of Kirby as a contender. Thats just me.
Geno, I've never PLAYED Mario RPG but he seems like a cool character.
Ridley: ME WANT!!!
Toad:...meh
Bowser Jr.:...meh
3rd party: Sakurai must give me travis touchdown...MUST
How about Sakuria as a character himself . His final smash would be causing everyone to trip of the stage (I love that joke credit to who ever said that first.)
However I would prefer to see a Nintendo series or other wise that has not been represented yet to be a character.
On a completely different subject about an already represented series subject Majora's Mask as a character would be cool.
Usually Arc's posts are painfully ignorant, but he's spot on in regards to Geno. The vehemence of a few Mario fans isn't going convince Sakurai the guy's a great playable character and Mario Sports Mix isn't changing anything no matter what happens.
Also kinda surprised Chrono just now learned that SE is making that game, we've known since E3.
She doesn't have arms and Sakurai said characters who have no arms cannot fight as Smash characters.
