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[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

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pass the syrup

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What if Smash 4 is non restricted to Nintendo characters? How about not even restricted to video game characters? What if it is the same game engine with ANY character ever!?! Here's my list...

Jon Foreman
Snookie
Ash Ketchum
Blackwargreymon
Colonel Sanders
Sandra Bullock
Chuck Norris
Ganondorf
Sanjaya
Karl Marx
Mr. T
Captain Falcon
Mr. Rogers
Strong Bad
Will Ferrell
Earl Boykins
Batman
Mantracker
Zordon
Kid Cuddi
Reggie Fils-Aime
Porygon 2
Lady Gaga
Aragorn
Stan Lee
Megatron
Chris McCandless
Abe Lincoln: Vampire Hunter
Falcor: The Luck Dragon
Howie Mandel
Garfield the Cat
Tom Hanks
Calvin and Hobbes
Finn the Human
Bubby the Whale
Marco Polo
and last but not least... Obama!
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Oh cool, the page thing is fixed. Must've been that mod from the last page, props abounds.


It's pretty disappointing to hear quite a few of you guys buying into rumors and misinterpreting Nintendo's general status and strategies, especially all the Sakurai stuff. At least the E3 meltdowns will be something.
 

Starphoenix

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Ah, understood. See, while Smash obviously works wonders as a promotional tool, I hate the idea of it being USED simply as that. I see Smash as a "best of Nintendo" series that combines the most iconic characters, locations, items, and other elements into one single game. I mean, that's what it is, besides characters and things present in the game because of Sakurai's own bias. If it was used as a promotional tool, it wouldn't really be a "best of" series anymore. It'd contain too many obscure and lesser known franchises that Nintendo or some third party developer is trying to promote, and that shouldn't happen to a game like Smash.

And that interview sounds quite interesting, I'll have to check that out myself.
And, again, I said a series would never get in just for advertisement alone. I'm saying it could be used as advertisement for the West, whereas in Japan it would be the equivalent of Westerners reaction to Sonic in some ways.
 

Arcadenik

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Too soon, guys. The page glitch is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack. :p

@ Starphoenix

You might be right about comparing the Japanese reaction to Dragon Quest stuff being in SSB4 with the Western reaction to Sonic being in Brawl.

I also liked your suggestion for Erdrick to represent Dragon Quest. But there's a little problem with the suggestion. He wasn't even the main protagonist of the first Dragon Quest game. We could possibly get around this by putting in Erdrick's descendant who was actually the main protagonist of said game and name him Erdrick.
 

Dingding123

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SSB:T

Super Smash Bros: Tussle

Beyond picking characters and stages, there will be no customization options whatsoever for multiplayer or single-player tussling. Every match will be a 2:00 coin battle. The coins will be different colored plush dolls of Metaknight. Items will be on high, and there will be a grand total of 5 of them. Final smashes will be given to you every time you fall off the stage - even if someone else has one - and everyone will have the same final smash. There will be no hitstun, no gravity, and no thinking involved. It will be sold out everywhere.
 

augustoflores

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SSB:T

Super Smash Bros: Tussle

Beyond picking characters and stages, there will be no customization options whatsoever for multiplayer or single-player tussling. Every match will be a 2:00 coin battle. The coins will be different colored plush dolls of Metaknight. Items will be on high, and there will be a grand total of 5 of them. Final smashes will be given to you every time you fall off the stage - even if someone else has one - and everyone will have the same final smash. There will be no hitstun, no gravity, and no thinking involved. It will be sold out everywhere.
i see someone is a comedian... (or comedianne)
i actually thought you were trolling. good one.
 

Big-Cat

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SSB:T

Super Smash Bros: Tussle

Beyond picking characters and stages, there will be no customization options whatsoever for multiplayer or single-player tussling. Every match will be a 2:00 coin battle. The coins will be different colored plush dolls of Metaknight. Items will be on high, and there will be a grand total of 5 of them. Final smashes will be given to you every time you fall off the stage - even if someone else has one - and everyone will have the same final smash. There will be no hitstun, no gravity, and no thinking involved. It will be sold out everywhere.
Imagine the returns at Gamestop.
 

Spydr Enzo

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And, again, I said a series would never get in just for advertisement alone. I'm saying it could be used as advertisement for the West, whereas in Japan it would be the equivalent of Westerners reaction to Sonic in some ways.
I know, I understand exactly what you're saying. I was simply rambling, voicing my opinion on the idea of Smash being used purely as a promotional tool. I wasn't saying that you had actually suggested that Smash take this path.




Anyway... what new collectibles would you like to see in the next Smash? We got trophies in Melee, Stickers in Brawl, what about SSB4?

I came up with the idea of "dioramas," collectible pieces that depict specific (or even more general) locations in many of Nintendo's greatest series (even beyond the series represented by characters or stages). Obviously, these wouldn't be as numerous as stickers or trophies. I haven't thought about unlocking methods either. There could be a diorama "viewing room" where you can read some history and interesting facts about each diorama and the locale it depicts.

But the number one use for dioramas is designing an action scene using trophies and things like that. In the Brawl Trophy Gallery, we have "Diorama Mode" where we can place up to four trophies on one of four dioramas. What if, in SSB4, you had tons of actual Nintendo locations to place trophies on? You could also do things like edit the size of the trophies and edit other trophy features.

This brings in a new collectible, adds to the "Nintendo Encyclopedia" effect of Brawl's stickers and trophies, and also expands upon Brawl's boring "Diorama Mode." What do you think?
 

ManicRaider

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I don't want to sound like a Nintendo purist or anything but I'd prefer it if they stuck to Nintendo characters. Also they don't need to keep adding characters in order to keep the game fresh (at least not a lot at one time). Last but not least, when choosing third-party characters why doesn't anyone hardly ever suggest more cartoony characters like Billy Hatcher? I'm not saying that's all Smash has to use but I like using those types of characters because it's fun seeing them beat each other up and stuff.

P.S. - Just to remind everyone I'm just making my opinion known I'm not trying to state anything as fact.
 

Shorts

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Oh cool, the page thing is fixed. Must've been that mod from the last page, props abounds.


It's pretty disappointing to hear quite a few of you guys buying into rumors and misinterpreting Nintendo's general status and strategies, especially all the Sakurai stuff. At least the E3 meltdowns will be something.
Well I can say that while I stay optimistic, I know the reality is IT'S JUST A RUMOR. I know Spydr has stayed realitively level headed about the rumor. I think Kuma at some point said something to the extent of reminding everyone it's just a rumor. (If not Kuma, then someone)

Also, would you point out the misinterps? If you really are correct I think you should nip it in the bud. Unless of course this isn't so much misinterpretation, but a different interp.

Sorry for the weird sentences, it's hard to type small yet effective paragraphs with a Wiiiiiii mote.
 

Starphoenix

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Too soon, guys. The page glitch is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack. :p

@ Starphoenix

You might be right about comparing the Japanese reaction to Dragon Quest stuff being in SSB4 with the Western reaction to Sonic being in Brawl.

I also liked your suggestion for Erdrick to represent Dragon Quest. But there's a little problem with the suggestion. He wasn't even the main protagonist of the first Dragon Quest game. We could possibly get around this by putting in Erdrick's descendant who was actually the main protagonist of said game and name him Erdrick.
Well I chose Erdrick because he is the only stand out protagonist. I figured he could have pallete's for the other heroes. Or if Smash Bros goes the route of alternate costumes and models, he can have costumes of other protagonists too. Like my personal favorites from V and VI.

I know, I understand exactly what you're saying. I was simply rambling, voicing my opinion on the idea of Smash being used purely as a promotional tool. I wasn't saying that you had actually suggested that Smash take this path.
Okay, as long as we're on the same page.

As for collectibles, that is hard to say. Maybe we will have lollipop sticks? I don't know, we already have trophies, stickers, CD's, and coins. Don't know what else there could be?

BTW, here is that interview for you:

The following is an interview from Famitsu that involves a one-on-one discussion between Smash Bros. and Kirby creator Masahiro Sakurai and Dragon Quest series producer Ryutaro Ichimura...

"A lot of people around the world have interacted with Smash Bros., and a lot of Japanese people have interacted with Dragon Quest. In that aspect, they're both games that're easy to approach and easy to play with." - Ichimura

"Kirby's Dream Land was the first game I ever made, but I had no intention of making it a mainstream game. I really narrowed down the audience to beginners only. That's because, at the time, no matter how much fun the Super Mario Bros. games were, they were still too tough for normal people and kids. I could feel people drifting away from games, and it bothered me. In the midst of making Kirby, a lot of the team started wondering if we were maybe making it too simple. But I think it was necessary for us to consider people who hadn't played a game before, and I think doing that earned us fans that wouldn't have been around otherwise. That's the same creative approach I take with Smash Bros. It hasn't changed at all today." - Sakurai

"I grew up playing the Dragon Quest games ever since I was a grade schooler, and they served as a gateway to this great new realm of gameplay called RPGs to me. I've gone from playing them to making them, but I can't afford to let myself forget about what it's like as a player. I need to make a game that anyone young or old can pick up and unwittingly get addicted to." - Ichimura

"The thing I always have the most difficulty with in DQ is the hero character, who never speaks and never gives his own opinions. If the hero shows his own emotions, that runs the risk of alienating the player." - Ichimura

"We generally don't have the characters talk in Smash Bros. either. That can makes things interesting sometimes, or maybe boring sometimes... With Brawl, we had game modes that played out with the story, and they wound up being like these silent films where we had to keep each character's personality but couldn't have them talk. It'd be easier to have them talk, but that's unfair to the characters in the game who can't talk, so we decided to keep all of them silent instead." - Sakurai

"I don't think there are many games today that really attract new people. That's why I think games need to be simplified a bit. Kid Icarus might be called a FPS or a third-person shooter, but if you took someone who didn't know games and gave him the latest FPS and a controller with ten buttons and two analog sticks and told him to start playing, he'd never be able to. That's why Kid Icarus is really easy to control. It gives people who gave up on the genre a chance to take a step back into that world. Even though I'm a pretty hardcore gamer, I think that's very important." - Sakurai

"That's something you can do because you've delved so deeply into the genre and are so familiar with essence of what makes it fun. You're able to lower your sights precisely because you have a heavy gaming habit. I really understand that, but as a producer, I suppose my approach is different. The way I see it, the main issue before us to figure out how to make games proliferate in the realm of entertainment. One way to do that is position the game front and center, then prepare a bunch of alternate entryways that aren't games, like manga or anime or merchandise. Having all these entryways results in a single piece of entertainment, and as a producer, I feel it's my job to link all that together." - Ichimura

"I suppose our root motivation is the same. Kids and normal people can't create games, so that's why we're here to make them instead. We need to keep ourselves aware of that going into the future." - Sakurai
Also, here the old quote I keep going back to with Iwata:

New details have emerged from Wednesday’s Square Enix press conference where Nintendo president Satoru Iwata gave a brief speech.

Before the announcement that Dragon Quest X will arrive on the Wii, Iwata claimed that he wanted the DS version of Dragon Quest IX to receive the same level of success in the West as it does in Japan.

"There are two things I'd like to make reality,” Iwata said. “The first is to build a thriving Japanese game market that rivals the West's. The second is to form a strong tag team to promote Dragon Quest overseas.”

Speaking of successful migrations of Japanese games, Iwata reminded attendees of how crucial a promoter Nintendo can be in terms of global audiences: “At Nintendo, we were able to popularise the Brain Age series overseas, which was said to be unmarketable.”

“I want to increase the number of people worldwide that understand the appeal of Dragon Quest,” he continued, adding that “I'm looking forward to working together with Mr. Horii and Square Enix."
 

vVv Rapture

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In terms of collectibles, I liked the idea of being able to collect music for stages. Stickers and Trophies should definitely stay. Maybe we can collect costumes for characters, as well? Or maybe some way to customize our character's looks (like putting logos on them like on Diddy's vest or Snake's camo or something)?
 

Arcadenik

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The only Dragon Quest game I played was VIII so I'd love to see Erdrick wear that hero's costume. :)

How about trading cards? They could display information on characters, items, places, and scenes from past games - ie. Baby Metroid sacrificing its life to save Samus from Mother Brain in Super Metroid or young Link pulling the Master Sword for the first time in Ocarina of Time or Mario spinning Bowser from the tail in Super Mario 64.

:phone:
 

vVv Rapture

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Trading cards would be cool, could be a sort of side-game if the developer wants to have that if the person, for some odd reason, doesn't want to play the actual game. xD

Also, idk if any of you listen to DI, but we did have some Smash 4 rumors pop up in the beginning of the show, both of which (the third was a general Wii 2 rumor) were really interesting.
 

lordvaati

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What if Smash 4 is non restricted to Nintendo characters? How about not even restricted to video game characters? What if it is the same game engine with ANY character ever!?! Here's my list...

Jon Foreman
Snookie
Ash Ketchum
Blackwargreymon
Colonel Sanders
Sandra Bullock
Chuck Norris
Ganondorf
Sanjaya
Karl Marx
Mr. T
Captain Falcon
Mr. Rogers
Strong Bad
Will Ferrell
Earl Boykins
Batman
Mantracker
Zordon
Kid Cuddi
Reggie Fils-Aime
Porygon 2
Lady Gaga
Aragorn
Stan Lee
Megatron
Chris McCandless
Abe Lincoln: Vampire Hunter
Falcor: The Luck Dragon
Howie Mandel
Garfield the Cat
Tom Hanks
Calvin and Hobbes
Finn the Human
Bubby the Whale
Marco Polo
and last but not least... Obama!
they have this. it's called MUGEN.
 

Starphoenix

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The only Dragon Quest game I played was VIII so I'd love to see Erdrick wear that hero's costume. :)

How about trading cards? They could display information on characters, items, places, and scenes from past games - ie. Baby Metroid sacrificing its life to save Samus from Mother Brain in Super Metroid or young Link pulling the Master Sword for the first time in Ocarina of Time or Mario spinning Bowser from the tail in Super Mario 64.

:phone:
I've played V, VI, VII, XI; and plan on getting IV, VIII and X, whenever that is released.

Another idea is to make the primary hero the character from XI, but use the different clothing to make him resemble the other heroes. Just like in XI. Personally, this is the best choice in my mind.


Or they can go with the protagonist from the upcoming X. Or there is always the Slime...
 

Spydr Enzo

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BTW, here is that interview for you:
:
Interesting interview. I respect Sakurai for trying to create games that can appeal to those who have never played games or have given up on certain genera, but I still don't like this philosophy of his.

I don't know if he realizes that "tough" games, like the Super Mario series apparently, doesn't actually scare away gamers as much as he thinks. Even if they are new to the series. Part of the fun in most games is learning the ropes, getting a hang of the controls, and steadily increasing your skill.

As a young kid, I could play pretty much any game I got my hands on and not worry about how "tough" it was because I always knew that picking up a game and being instantly good at it isn't normal. Sakurai's philosophy is that in order for someone to become interested in a series, they have to pretty much be instantly good at it or they will never play it again. This really bothers me, because it DEFINITELY is not true in most cases... I know from experience, both my own and from watching my friends play "tough" video games for the first time. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll ever allow his inner "hardcore gamer" to become unleashed and apparent in his games, besides Melee.



Also, about that Iwata comment... I used to think that if we ever got a Square Enix representative in a Smash game, it'd be Geno because of his vocal popularity, but now it seems like a Dragon Quest character would be more likely to represent SE. And I can definitely see some Dragon Quest music, items, trophies and stickers appearing in the next Smash.


Trading cards would be cool, could be a sort of side-game if the developer wants to have that if the person, for some odd reason, doesn't want to play the actual game. xD

Also, idk if any of you listen to DI, but we did have some Smash 4 rumors pop up in the beginning of the show, both of which (the third was a general Wii 2 rumor) were really interesting.
I don't listen, could you elaborate on these rumors? I am very interested in hearing them.
 

Starphoenix

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One last thing I'll point out, is a Nintendo studio has actually worked on a Dragon Quest game recently. Intelligent Systems developed Dragon Quest Wars for the DSWare. Granted it isn't something spectacular, but its just another little factor that makes my case a little more solid.

:phone:
 

ChronoBound

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Oh cool, the page thing is fixed. Must've been that mod from the last page, props abounds.


It's pretty disappointing to hear quite a few of you guys buying into rumors and misinterpreting Nintendo's general status and strategies, especially all the Sakurai stuff. At least the E3 meltdowns will be something.
As I have learned back in 2005, be skeptical of all console rumors, and don't believe anything until its official.

Also, one thing to keep in mind is that Miyamoto will be showing off a new IP at E3. He has hinted at last year that he was making a new one (one that could produce a recognizable game character), since the last series in which he did that (Pikmin) was nearly a decade ago. I think there is a very good chance that the main character of this new Miyamoto IP will be a playable character in Smash Bros. Well, we find out in a month now.

We are only a month away from seeing Nintendo's next home console. Next year is when I expect to see the next Smash Bros. Though there is the chance that it won't be unveiled until 2013 at the latest. Although I think development of Smash 4 is very likely to begin toward the end of this year, and that they would very likely be able to have something to show of it by E3 2012, I thinks its possible that Sakurai and Nintendo might opt not to show the game until its much further along in development, which would mean no unveil until E3 2013. So at the most we are looking at two years until we see Smash 4. If it is not shown until E3 2013, I expect some sort of announcement at E3 2012 that it is "in development".

I am very curious on where Sakurai plans to go from Brawl. While many competitive players were disappointed in it, I thought it was pretty much a fulfilling follow-up to Melee. With Melee, it was obvious about what needed to be done for Smash 4 (add online, add the rest of the major Nintendo characters). With Brawl, basically every major Nintendo character was made a playable characters, guests (non-Nintendo) characters were added, online was added, stage editor, powerful finishing moves, etc.

However, what does Sakurai do for Smash 4? Brawl was pretty much Melee but with much more characters, stages, and online (though for competitive players it was a definite step down). The problem is that Sakurai has already done "bigger, faster, and better" for the past two Smash games and added some new elements along with the massive roster increases. The problem though is that it will be much more difficult to increase the roster this time around, so he might have to be looking at ways to change up the gameplay a bit. It might turn out to be a gimmick (like with Mario Kart Double Dash), or it could "renew" the series.

I think in terms of characters, I think even Sakurai realizes that the selection for newcomers is dismal. There is probably only 1-4 Nintendo characters left that are as major as most of the newcomers that were added for Brawl. I have a feeling that Sakurai will instead opt for a smaller roster increase, but hope to mitigate it by adding mostly third-party characters (most of whom would be major characters). But even if he did that who could he add?

The only two guys from Capcom I think who would have major "star-power" would be Mega Man and Ruy of Street Fighter. The only other "star-power" Capcom character I could think of would be someone from Resident Evil, but there would be a problem of trying to integrate them into Smash Bros. without the use of their guns and knives and not being too much of a Snake copycat.

With Konami, there is no one else aside from Snake that has major "star-power". Simon Belmont and Castlevania may have a prominent place in the heart of many Nintendo fans, but the character and series are basically on the same level as Little Mac, a popular retro character and "retro" series. Konami also recently acquired Hudson, which means they now own Bomberman now too. While the Bomberman series has been on almost every Nintendo platform (even the Virtual Boy), the series and character is basically in the same situation as Castlevania but worse (at least Castelvania games are still critically acclaimed).

Sega's only major game character (especially in this age) is Sonic. Most other Sega characters outside of the Sonic series are basically obscure.

Square-Enix could obviously add some sort of Dragon Quest character, whether it be Slime or the nameless "Hero". However, even then Square-Enix's other major characters have problems. Sora is owned by Disney, and Cloud (the most popular protagonist of the Final Fantasy series) has never had a proper appearance on a Nintendo console so that would disqualify him. A generic Final Fantasy character would not have very much "star-power" (examples of generic Final Fantasy characters include Chocobo, Moogle, Warrior of Light, Black Mage). Also, even though Chrono Trigger is among the most popular games ever, Crono is hurt by the fact that his series is dead, and he himself is a one-shot.

So all things considered, I think the only third-party characters that Sakurai could get for Smash 4 that would be on the same level as Snake and Sonic would be Mega Man, Ryu, and Slime. While these three characters would add the same amount of hype as Sonic and Snake did, they are still only three characters. Sakurai will pretty much be forced into focusing more on gameplay improvements than roster growth.

I think that Smash 4 will turn off many of the non-competitive fans of the series the same way Brawl turned off many of the competitive players. I can already see the angry threads about the smaller amount of newcomers and amount of veteran playable characters that were cut. As I said previous times, I myself am getting pretty burned out on Smash Bros., and if Brawl's roster were simply tweaked a bit, I probably would not even be following Smash 4.

Its strange to say that I probably anticipate to see what direction Sakurai goes in for Smash 4 as much I anticipate what characters he selects as newcomers.
 

Starphoenix

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Well it's nice to know people are more open to my theory now. That is a plus.
 

Spydr Enzo

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As I have learned back in 2005, be skeptical of all console rumors, and don't believe anything until its official.

(...everything in between...)

Its strange to say that I probably anticipate to see what direction Sakurai goes in for Smash 4 as much I anticipate what characters he selects as newcomers.

I also don't expect to see SSB4 officially announced until 2013. That seems like a reasonable distance away from Brawl's release.

I agree with many people here on the possibility that the amount of newcomers will be much lower than the amount we received in Melee and Brawl. However, I happen to disagree with most people on the reason WHY we will see a drop in the amount of newcomers.

I believe it is because Sakurai (or whoever the developer may be) will be spending more time working on additional features and giving the game an overall "new feel," whether that is because of some sort of revamp, some type of gimmick, or anything else that will bring a whole new flavor to the series.

I don't think it's because we don't have many viable newcomers left... in fact, I really disagree with that. I feel like we have just enough "major" Nintendo characters left to bring in a good amount of newcomers, close to the same amount as the past two games. I also don't believe that many characters will be cut, and I don't expect to see more than two new third party series. We know from past interviews that Sakurai is very reluctant to add new third party series.
 

majora_787

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I thought we'd hear about SSB4 in 2011 or 2012, and we'd get it in 2013 or 2014. Roughly.

EDIT: Nobody posted, so lemme add something.

I think way more characters should be unlockable. Looking at Brawl, it's a great game with lots of unlockables, but there's two things that I don't like.

1. I don't feel like you have to work for enough characters. I like having a thick cast, but I also like having to work to fill out my roster. Makes me enjoy the character more.

2. I think the only unlock characters should have in common is vs matches. I don't like the idea of EVERYONE being unlockable via adventure mode. Bleck... And it's not because I don't like adventure mode. It just... yeah.

3. Okay, I didn't mention this, but this is important. No more "reflect __ projectiles in a match" bull****. Seriously. That's not an unlocking requirement, that's a tiny chore that drops a character in your lap afterwards.
 

UberMario

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I've mentioned this before, but I think that (for just once) they should ditch the 1-P mode (except the Classic mode, which would be way too easy to include), and focus entirely on stage, item, and character design/balance. If all three of the soundtracks from the previous games were included, I'd be satisified with mostly new music ports if that let the stage and character roster become more enlarged and stable (money-related, etc., though that definitely isn't a problem for Nintendo or HAL).
 

Big-Cat

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You mean what Miyamoto wanted Sakurai to do? While I do agree with it, some things should be added in. All the stuff from Melee and a streamlined Adventure mode should be kept, but the priority should be on the multiplayer, no questions asked. And that includes the online play.
 

majora_787

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Streamlined. Not a couple of hours long. xD SSE was okay, but... seriously, I would have rathered more content and a new "Melee-Style" 1PAdv.

But seriously, they need to make you work a little more for characters and content.

Melee - 11 unlockable characters by doing 1,000 versus matches. OR, you could do a unique challenge to unlock them.

Brawl - 14 unlockable characters by doing 450 versus matches. OR, you could get all of them in the SSE adventure mode as you encountered them in the story. OR, you could do 1-3 pretty easy tasks to unlock all of them. Some were okay, like Wolf's "Clear Boss Battles with Fox and Falco". That's what I'm talking about!

But seriously, we also need more of the characters to be unlockable. We've handed out more characters since Melee, where about 45% of the roster was unlockable. Now, 38% of Brawl's roster is unlockable.

And one more thing: No moar stickers. EVER. Make like, cards or something that all have unique criteria or a lottery or something. Just... no more stickers.
 

UberMario

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I thought Miyamoto wanted a port of Melee, not a new game. However, it'd be nice if there could be settings that imitate the older games (physics-wise) under the special settings.

Also, I never used the stickers, even on intense. lol
 

majora_787

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I thought Miyamoto wanted a port of Melee, not a new game. However, it'd be nice if there could be settings that imitate the older games (physics-wise) under the special settings.

Also, I never used the stickers, even on intense. lol
I thought it was only the overly clingy smash community members, and the tourney-obsessors and frequenters (not intentionally an insult) were the only ones who wanted a port of Melee. o_O I remember hearing that Miyamoto wanted something "slower and more open to beginners than Melee".
 

BirthNote

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Maybe we can collect costumes for characters, as well?
That is a GREAT idea.

Anyway, continuing my last post:

If Jr. did get in, he could get SOME of his moves from his siblings. There's a good amount of Koopaling attacks that can come from Super Mario Bros. 3 all the way up to New Super Mario Bros. Wii as well as attacks of his own. You fight Bowser Jr. plenty of times in NSMB DS, so shell-based attacks may not be an issue. Also, I was thinking that he could use HIS (not Bowser's) Koopa Clown Car as an Up Special in which he hovers for a short time.

Another idea is to have him use his paintbrush. Its unique, however I don't think Shadow Mario should be involved. In Sunshine, Bowser Jr. didn't use the brush to transform--he used a black and dark blue kerchief with a drawing of Mario's moustache. Bowser Jr. no longer wears this, but his paintbrush is still used from time to time.

So, my idea for Bowser's 8th child is for him to use his siblings' attacks as well as his own, his Clown Car, and paintbrush. However, there's a "Bowser Clone" risk. Hopefully the height/weight/size differences between Bowser and Jr. can prevent this. The clones and semiclones usually share the same height and physique of the originals. Young and Toon Link CAN contradict that statement, but you have to keep in mind that the Links are the same person, while Bowser and Jr. aren't. If that's not valid to some, keep in mind that TLink has some different moves to compensate for his shape. He never kicks.
Bearing this in mind, there are things that Jr. can't do compared to Bowser. His claws aren't good enough for slashing, so Bowser-esque "jabs" and down as well as up tilts wouldn't make sense. Also, Jr. wouldn't be able to suplex opponents either because of his size; this means that some of Bowser's throws would seem strange for his son to adopt. Can you imagine Bowser Jr. bodyslamming the foe he's grabbed? Biting isn't an option either because he's only got one fang, and it would be silly for Jr. to lunge at an enemy as a running attack because he's smaller and less menacing than his dad.

Standard attacks aren't the only thing that won't translate well from Bowser to Junior. There's 3/4 specials that aren't appropriate for this Koopa: Flamethrowing, the Suplex and Bowser Bombing. Bowser Jr. can shoot flames as of NSMB Wii, but they're only fireballs. He hasn't roared out a stream of fire yet because he's young and smaller in size--which leads me to the Bowser Bomb (DownB). Does it really make sense for this kid to throw his weight around the way his dad does? I don't doubt Jr.'s heaviness but having him do the same downB or something strangely similar to the koopa king is...strange. I wouldn't be surprised if the shell-spin (UpB) is similar though. They're turtles. Bowser's kids retreat to their shells as soon as you hit them. Every Koopa uses their shells in one or many ways so I'm expecting shell moves if Jr. ever makes it in. That being said, I think the Clown Car could be a good UpB--meaning that his shell can be used for a dash attack or something.

Now we move to Jr.'s weight. We know he's lighter than Bowser, and if you see him in spinoffs more than the main games you'll probably think he's a lightweight. BJr.'s size is inconsistent. He was near Mario's height in Sunshine but BIGGER than Peach in Galaxy. At first you'd think he's growing older, but then he's pretty small in NSMB Wii even though he was Peach's (who he carried on his shoulder) height in NSMB DS. In Galaxy 2, he's once again larger than Peach. Strange, isn't it? If he does get in Smash 4, hopefully Bowser Jr. will be near Wario's weight and close to Mario's height. Perhaps he could be the heaviest middleweight or lightest heavyweight. Who knows?

Wrapping this all up, I think Bowser Jr. has a lot of potential as a character. He can represent himself using his brush and Clown Car as well as his siblings, dad, and all the other Koopas with shell attacks and spitting fire. Anyone can see the obvious clone risks with him, but hopefully having a brush along with his shell to cover some standard and special moves (among other things) can prevent this--not to mention the height/weight/size and ability differences. Other than being my favorite Mario series character, I would like Bowser Junior playable because of the symmetry that he could bring. With him, we could have 2 heroes fighting 2 villains for 1 princess. Some people have come up with GOOD Toad ideas, but I like the symmetry that Jr. could show.
 

Big-Cat

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I thought Miyamoto wanted a port of Melee, not a new game. However, it'd be nice if there could be settings that imitate the older games (physics-wise) under the special settings.

Also, I never used the stickers, even on intense. lol
From what I can recall, Iwata told Sakurai that if he didn't want to do a sequel to Melee, they would do a Wii port with added online.

@Majora
I don't recall Miyamoto saying that, and the Melee players just wanted a worthy sequel to Melee. They do not deem Brawl as such and neither do I.
 

augustoflores

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i don't know why, but the more i think of it, the more i like the idea of cards.

anyways,
64 engine (simple [3 specials], smashless, powerful),
melee engine (wavedash, fast-paced, "competitive" friendly, air dodge free fall),
brawl engine (float, trip, final smash use, footstool jump, air dodge recovery)

is this right?

could it really be possible for them to be able to have all three past engines within Smash 4 along with Smash 4 engine?
are there any aspiring video game designers here who is qualified to answer this? (and by aspiring, i refer to being in college studying...
(i am studying for game art and design and i just started so im not qualified even if i finished)
)

what exactly will be the bad news if the actual game has this function to hop to another engine in the options menu? and online... will it have 4 quads of rooms for the respective engines?

when i say engine, i refer to physics, not graphics btw. i still don't know whether it is possible to have multiple physics in the same game or if the Smash 4 engine can simulate them.
 

Big-Cat

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It's more than likely having different physics engines would be possible, but there are some things to consider.

1. With four engines, you have to make four sets of frame data for each character. You're basically sacrificing three characters for one.
2. It'd be an even bigger nightmare to balance the four engines.
3. In all likelihood, only one engine would be made.
 

majora_787

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From what I can recall, Iwata told Sakurai that if he didn't want to do a sequel to Melee, they would do a Wii port with added online.

@Majora
I don't recall Miyamoto saying that, and the Melee players just wanted a worthy sequel to Melee. They do not deem Brawl as such and neither do I.
1. I could have very well might have confused something Sakurai had said, and something Miyamoto had said. Happens. x_x One of them DID say something like that, though.

2. And isn't a worthy sequel completely in the eye of the beholder? I think Brawl was pretty good, aside from a few issues they need to fix. Which I've brought up. Mostly involving the adventure mode, stickers, and unlocking methods.

And I think they could implement something with Melee's engine mostly, only with the fluid controls, footstool jumping, and final smashes all thrown in. One of them needs to be a necessity in every smash bros. ever, and the other two were pretty cool features that should come back.

And I hope they go for a new graphics style, on the topic of graphics. I mean, realism isn't the only thing they have to go for. They should try something both graphically modern, and still new. Sort of like Skyward Sword and its style that almost vaguely resembles cel-shading. Sort of.
 

Big-Cat

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2. And isn't a worthy sequel completely in the eye of the beholder? I think Brawl was pretty good, aside from a few issues they need to fix. Which I've brought up. Mostly involving the adventure mode, stickers, and unlocking methods.
Just to be clear, I'm talking from a gameplay perspective. I don't know about you, but the kills I got in Brawl just didn't seem as rewarding as they were in Melee. Melee, even if you didn't have L-Canceling, was a faster game in general and was just more exciting.
 
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