[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[SirKibble]

I remember hearing the "Sandshrew, Nidorina, and Butterfree" idea a long time ago in this post. Now, what makes that combination even worth half-supporting? It's a bad combination with extremely non-iconic Pokemon (despite the originality in the three, for being the first of their "kind" due to their 1st gen origins). Don't get me wrong, I love the three, but they wouldn't work as Pokemon reps; as playable characters. However, the Fighting-Psychic-Dark combo is interesting, as it works similarly to the Fire-Grass-Water combo. Machop, Sneasel, and Alakazam would be awesome. Or Houndour, Hitmonlee, Gardevoir (or Gallade).

Now, for Mewtwo. You don't want him back because of how he played in Melee. Well... they could completely shift gears with his mechanics, rendering him entirely playable. He has already been in a Smash Bros game, so any "dumbing down and stripping of honor" has already been done, and I don't think it left a mark at all. Most people want him back because they love the character Mewtwo, not how he smashed in Melee.

I completely get what you're saying, and honestly, despite it being my own suggestion, I half-dislike it myself, and I really have no backing for it, aside from that I like the Pokemon.

I like Machop as an idea, but I'm not so sure about Sneasel and Alakazam. I don't know why, but Machop seems a lot more playable and likeable than the other two. For the Psychic-type, it could be an opportunity for people to see Gardevoir in, since there seems to be a decent fanbase for that. The Dark Pokemon is the difficult one. There are few pure Dark Pokemon, and all the ones that are are dog-like. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, but it kind of limits the selection options, unless we want to dive into mixed-type Pokemon.

I don't really like either, honestly, the character Mewtwo or how he was in Melee. I don't know, I guess I'm just not a big fan. I thought he wasn't a very good character choice and that he wasn't well-done as a character. *shrug*

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Do what now? Fire Emblem is one of Nintendo's least known franchises. Let's see what comes before it: Super Mario, The Legend of Zelda, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Kirby... but really... Fire Emblem?

True it might not be one of the big 6, but its not one of the least known. On a casual level its a lot more well known than Earthbound and probably F-Zero. A lot of people like Fire Emblem (moreso in Japan than in America) and I get the feeling that SSBM and SSBB have added a lot of popularity to the series. Everyone and their mother plays as Ike now and Marth has one of the largest number of players for an SSB character. Even Roy was very popular on a casual level, and was one of those characters that many noob players loved (and recently has been discovered to be a half decent character contrary to old belief.)

With so many players using Fire Emblem characters (and the high demand for Lyn and Micaiah to be added should another SSB be made) it wouldn't surprise me at all if Fire Emblem jumped up in the ranks as one of the biggest Nintendo franchises. When players see a character that they like, they often become curious about said characters games (I've seen a lot of posts about Earthbound being discovered by gamers that previously had no idea of the series in this way) and will want to play these games.

If I'm right, and if Intelligent Systems keeps up the good work, then we may see Fire Emblem become one of the big 6... err 7.

 

[ChiiGamer]

Shigeru Miyamoto playable fighter plox?

honestly though i would just like to see the melee characters return and the list steadily GROW... no removing characters etc.

At the very least the original 12 should have a permanent spot on the roster. (except maybe jigglypuff lol)

@ SirKibble - yeah i really enjoy the first gen of pokemon. as for the female trainer thing. maybe take up two of the "color schemes" that all the characters have with a female version and the other as a male version.

 

[BlueMoonMan]

-Improve Stage Builder
-More Parts
-Better CPU AI when fighting on custom stages
-Online "store" for custom stages (accessed from ssb4)
-"Free-er" placement of parts when designing a level
-Custom parts (drawn with wiimote?)
-Include ability to create custom textures for land/terrain w/ built in texture editor

-Improve Online
-Have a central "lobby" where it lists current matches waiting for entrants (including names)
-Improve Nintendo-side server performance
-Optimize the method of sending/receiving data to minimize the needed connection
speed to play lag free
-Include a "speed tester" to determine which features are usable during an online match
-If fast enough (previous idea), then allow features such as voice chat

-Improve Character Appearence
-Allow for "custom" character costumes (rgb color sliders for a set of 3-4 different colors on
the character, save-able to a player profile)

-Improve Replay Options
-Scan available memory (including an SD card) to determine the max length of a savable replay
-Provide a scrubber while viewing saved replays to quickly jump to certain places in a replay

-Improve System Compatibility
-Create identical games (aside from model/texture detail) for the Wii and the DS

-Improve Multiplayer Capability
-Create identical methods of sending/receiving data for online matches for both the Wii/DS
to allow for inter-connectivity online and locally between systems
-Allow DS's to locally connect to a Wii and play with whomever is on the Wii, include support for
multiple DS's (up to 3)

-Improve Stage Quality
-Rid the game of stages like 75m, where it's a pain to move around, and where it's easy to die
-Increase the amount of balanced stages like Battlefield, Final Destination, Delfino Plaza, etc

-Increase Size of Cast
-Add 1-3 more 3rd party characters (Megaman, Knuckles, Geno, etc)
-Increase size to 45-50 characters

 

[PKboy89]

Now that I mentioned female fighters, there really should be more, Smash Bros is a giant sausage fest.

I'm really getting sick of pokemon...the pokemon fans have enough already...I do think that they should put mewtwo back in though, he had a unique movest...

As for Megaman, the question isn't why he should be in the game, the question is he why isn't he in the game? He's megaman, end of story, put him in!!!

 

[Spire]

True it might not be one of the big 6, but its not one of the least known. On a casual level its a lot more well known than Earthbound and probably F-Zero. A lot of people like Fire Emblem (moreso in Japan than in America) and I get the feeling that SSBM and SSBB have added a lot of popularity to the series. Everyone and their mother plays as Ike now and Marth has one of the largest number of players for an SSB character. Even Roy was very popular on a casual level, and was one of those characters that many noob players loved (and recently has been discovered to be a half decent character contrary to old belief.)

With so many players using Fire Emblem characters (and the high demand for Lyn and Micaiah to be added should another SSB be made) it wouldn't surprise me at all if Fire Emblem jumped up in the ranks as one of the biggest Nintendo franchises. When players see a character that they like, they often become curious about said characters games (I've seen a lot of posts about Earthbound being discovered by gamers that previously had no idea of the series in this way) and will want to play these games.

If I'm right, and if Intelligent Systems keeps up the good work, then we may see Fire Emblem become one of the big 6... err 7.

And so it seems I completely forgot Metroid Smash Bros is great for reviving and publicizing characters and franchises that are not well known. I'm no advocate of the Fire Emblem series, and I've honestly never played a Fire Emblem game.

I do however frown at the lack of a fanbase for F-Zero. It has quite the underground following, but as a big-time series, it's not climbing the slope well. Series like Fire Emblem are propelling, and while that's good for those games, it's hindering F-Zero, which is a definite classic. Star Fox is unfortunately lacking also. Perhaps it is time for a new Nintendo franchise(s) to reign, but dropping those that have shaped Nintendo off the cliff would be a wrong-doing. I understand that back in '88 when the first Fire Emblem was released, it helped to shape the formula for which almost all RPG's are based off of - including Final Fantasy. Hopefully we will see a good future for F-Zero, Star Fox, and Fire Emblem, along with all of Nintendo's franchises. I would hate to see any of them drown.

Spire III, I believe you said that no one knew who Ness, Samus and Captain Falcon were...and I'm saying that um...no, you are wrong, many people did, it was mostly just the little kids who haven't been around for their games didn't know who they were, get it straight dude...as a matter of fact...Ness Samus and Captain Falcon are a part of the biggest stars along with Mario, Link, ect. Earthbound is one of the most popular rpg's ever, in Japan at least, and is considered to be one of the greatest games ever made in both countries...saying that they added Ness to try and increase popularity makes no sense, none of the characters were added to increase their game popularity, every single character in the rooster is already popular...which is why they are in the game in the first place...

Every character in the game is popular in either Japan, America, or both. They aren't going to add a unpopular character, I don't even know if thats possible...

Man, you've been utterly mistaken for a long time now, haven't you? I said there were some (actually I said "a lot", but I do not recall feeling those words when I wrote that) people who did not know who those characters were. Some. And now, there are still "some" characters that people did/do not know that are present in Brawl. Characters such as R.O.B., Pit, and a number of Assist Trophies may have been entirely new to some players. Even in Melee, many people did not know who Ice Climbers, Game & Watch, Marth, or Roy were.

Back when SSB64 came out, the roster was composed of arguably the most popular Nintendo franchises - filtered through a blender of diversity to cast 12 entirely original characters. Ness was probably the least known of the crew, seeing as how he appeared in ONE American game. In Japan however, he was probably an entirely different story. Falcon did appear in F-Zero X, and I admit, I did not take that game into consideration when I posted that "Falcon, Samus, and Ness were the least known" characters. I still feel that out of all 12 characters, they may have been the least known (with Jiggs coming in a fourth place). This argument is pointless, and I would like it to end.

As for adding unpopular characters. Ice Climbers? Game & Watch? R.O.B. anyone? These were not requested at all; these were extremely unpopular.

 

[PKboy89]

And so it seems I completely forgot Metroid Smash Bros is great for reviving and publicizing characters and franchises that are not well known. I'm no advocate of the Fire Emblem series, and I've honestly never played a Fire Emblem game.

I do however frown at the lack of a fanbase for F-Zero. It has quite the underground following, but as a big-time series, it's not climbing the slope well. Series like Fire Emblem are propelling, and while that's good for those games, it's hindering F-Zero, which is a definite classic. Star Fox is unfortunately lacking also. Perhaps it is time for a new Nintendo franchise(s) to reign, but dropping those that have shaped Nintendo off the cliff would be a wrong-doing. I understand that back in '88 when the first Fire Emblem was released, it helped to shape the formula for which almost all RPG's are based off of - including Final Fantasy. Hopefully we will see a good future for F-Zero, Star Fox, and Fire Emblem, along with all of Nintendo's franchises. I would hate to see any of them drown.

You need to stop saying that games aren't well known...every character and their game francise is either well know in America, Japan, or both..Marth speaks Japanese for a reason...cause Fire Emblem is well known in Japan...

 

[biohazard930]

I shouldn't explain why your argument is pointless but I will.

How would having Mew as a partner ruin the image of Mewtwo?

Mew kicks *** as much as Mewtwo. So he's cute and pink... so is Kirby!!!

By that logic you could say that Metaknight should get in because he is cool and Kirby shouldn't because he is small and pink.

And how is Mew not as deserving of a character? Mew was around first and is easily as powerful as Mewtwo. Mewtwo was a clone of Mew.

And being paired with Mew would most definitely not ruin the image of Mewtwo. Melee already did that by making Mewtwo the worst overall character in the entire game. Lets face it, Mewtwo needs any buff he can get, and if adding Mew would allow him to have his power raised and increase the pairs versatility why not do it?

I agree with Spire in that it would be much to pressing to add both as characters (that would give Poke'mon an immense number of reps if Lucario is not replaced by Mewtwo.) And having them paired is definitely not a weakness, nor does it require you to switch to the other character. A lot of Brawl Zelda players don't even use Sheik because of rediculous switching time.

What would having Mew added, nearly doubling the pair's moveset do to Mewtwo as a character?.... It would replace his next to useless Down B move.

Not seeing the problem...


But if they must be seperate. Then replace Lucario with Mewtwo and add Mew as a new character.

Heck, you could even give Celebi and Jirachi as alternate outfits to Mew, seeing as how they are all 3 the same size (roughly) and have few differences.

Well, first, I don't believe I ever said that "cute and pink" characters should be barred from the competition. I also did not say Mew was not deserving. You assume too much.

I think you're missing the point by focusing on the gameplay of the pair. The gameplay isn't the problem. It's the idea. Of course it's all opinionated, but to me, characters should not be paired if their existences do not rely on each other. That's the main point I'm making. All of the current pairs or teams fit that requirement. (Again, PT is different.) There's no reason for them to be paired (conceptually). Thus, they should not be.

This is for concept. Not gameplay.

 

[Spire]

You need to stop saying that games aren't well known...every character and their game francise is either well know in America, Japan, or both..Marth speaks Japanese for a reason...cause Fire Emblem is well known in Japan...

We didn't get Fire Emblem games until after Melee publicized them. THAT is what I meant when I said it is not "well known". I know that Fire Emblem has been very popular in Japan since it debuted back in '88. I even wrote that in the post that you quoted me by. I said that it set the ground for the RPG formula. Please start reading carefully before accusing me of things that I'm doing wrong.

As for further publicizing, we haven't had a Kid Icarus or Ice Climbers game since the originals. However, Smash Bros has helped bump Pit and the Ice Climbers in popularity tenfold. Without Smash Bros revitalizing the two, they would merely be old NES games.

Well, first, I don't believe I ever said that "cute and pink" characters should be barred from the competition. I also did not say Mew was not deserving. You assume too much.

I think you're missing the point by focusing on the gameplay of the pair. The gameplay isn't the problem. It's the idea. Of course it's all opinionated, but to me, characters should not be paired if their existences do not rely on each other. That's the main point I'm making. All of the current pairs or teams fit that requirement. (Again, PT is different.) There's no reason for them to be paired (conceptually). Thus, they should not be.

This is for concept. Not gameplay.

I would actually have to say that the Mew/Mewtwo concept is a creative and interesting way to bring the two into Smash Bros. However. Based on their original concepts, those that described them in the games, they would not fit together at all. Yes, Mewtwo may be a clone of Mew, but their personalities clash in multivalence. It's like teaming Batman and Elmo. It just doesn't work. However - judging by the fact that the Pokemon characters in Brawl draw inspiration from the anime/movies, Mewtwo and Mew joined forces at the end of the first movie, but this alignment was never seen again. Also, it has been so long since that movie (disregarding that Mewtwo Strikes Back spin-off), that the concept of Mewtwo would most likely derive from his character in the games. Drawing a character from their roots, rather than their latest appearance is probably the best approach in devising who makes the cut.

On another note, I know that a number of people are not satisfied with the inclusion of more Pokemon, but Smash Bros needs to be about balanced representation, in conjunction with who would work. Mario has who it needs, Zelda has who it needs, but Pokemon are too many in number now. We do have the Pokeballs to represent Pokemon, so the actual playable Pokemon must be wisely chosen. Obviously gargantuans like Lugia and Groudon could never be playable, but the Pokemon that have been honored in popularity and adoration by the fans deserve a spot as a character. That's a hard choice to make, really.

You know, it would be really cool if they took Kid Icarus and Ice Climber, and made them a new game. That's some serious hardly-tapped potential. [/sidenote]

Sorry that I'm quoting you in backwards procession, but I do not want to over-post. I thought about how an Ice Climbers game could be handled in this new age of gaming. I would see it as a sort of puzzle/action game, centered around climbing many, many ledges on seemingly infinitely tall mountains and what not, along with bashing baddies along the way. As for how to spark the innovation? Well they would need to play similarly to how they do in Smash Bros for one. The action cannot be bland, and climbing ledges must be treacherous, with avalanches, rockslides, falling boulders, narrow pathways, etc, etc. I love to climb things in the Zelda games, but this would take it to a whole new level.

 

[SirKibble]

You know, it would be really cool if they took Kid Icarus and Ice Climber, and made them a new game. That's some serious hardly-tapped potential. [/sidenote]

 

[biohazard930]

What does everyone think of transformations in brawl? Like a pokemon evolving, an FE char getting promoted, and some of the things that happen when people use their final smashes. When I speak of transformations I'm not saying people get broken by pressing a button like super sonic, but more of a style change with apparently stronger abilities, but mainly different abilities.

Something of that sort would allow a lot more options, and therefore complexity to learning a char who can transform. And also with more options comes more likely hood of glitches, which can be game breaking or game making.

The problem is such a thing might not easily fit into SSB w/ out being either out of place. A game could let you transform if you build up the energy by charging or landing hits (NO!), getting a certain item (no smashball >.>), or balancing out the game for the one loosing (rewards for sucking... sounds like camping). The best way I can think of is like a typical sheik to Zelda transformation, maybe with a little more risk such as no super armor, taking longer, giving you a certain amount of damage at once or over time, etc.

Anyone think transforming (in a super saiyan fashion) is a good idea for SSB4?

I've thought about things like this, mainly for Pokemon evolutions. The only acceptable thing I could come up with was Final Smashes. I think it would work well there, but I'm not so sure about it being implemented in regular play.

 

[smashbro29]

I'm sorry but mother doesn't deserve 3 reps (I didn't think it deserved 2 in brawl)they're fun games but there are only 3(there will never be a 4th) and only one made it outside japan I say just Ness next game Idon't hate Lucas i just don't think he's important enough to the rest of the world.

 

[biohazard930]

Drawing a character from their roots, rather than their latest appearance is probably the best approach in devising who makes the cut.

On another note, I know that a number of people are not satisfied with the inclusion of more Pokemon, but Smash Bros needs to be about balanced representation, in conjunction with who would work. Mario has who it needs, Zelda has who it needs, but Pokemon are too many in number now. We do have the Pokeballs to represent Pokemon, so the actual playable Pokemon must be wisely chosen. Obviously gargantuans like Lugia and Groudon could never be playable, but the Pokemon that have been honored in popularity and adoration by the fans deserve a spot as a character. That's a hard choice to make, really.

Well, if you want to make that distinction, Mew and Mewtwo's "roots" were planted in Pokemon Red/Blue. In that, the two were connected, but distinctly separate. I know their inclusion into that actual game is slim and mysterious, but that's how I interpreted it.

Yeah, there are a lot of Pokemon. That's the problem, as every single one is designed to fight, and just about all could be implemented very well, nearly all with good moveset potential. Thus, as a big fan, I see the Pokemon choices to likely be the most exciting. I hate to see some go, but I'd recognize and relate to any they included, and it would be cool. However, I won't have Mewtwo, essentially one of the big loners of the series, to be demeaned.

Good thinking, though.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Remove:

• Lucas
  He's as important to Nintendo's history as Roy.

• 
  
  I'm going to quote this post a second time because I have noticed another example of idiocy.
  
  Roy is actaully very important to Nintendo's history. He is one of the two characters that popularized the Fire Emblem series by appearing in Super Smash Bros Melee. Had it not been for Marth's skills and Roy's casual player appeal, Fire Emblem would not have become the rapidly growing and internationally released series that it is today.
  
  Lucas is having a similar effect for the Earthbound series with his appearance in Brawl. A lot of casual players HATE Ness because they find him annoying (especially his accent) and Lucas is a slightly, if not much, more popular character do to an easier learning curve and less annoying accent.
  
  Stop judging characters by the number of games they have been in.
  
  
  

  Now that I mentioned female fighters, there really should be more, Smash Bros is a giant sausage fest.

  Thats a very interesting way to put it, but I agree. If Nintendo listens to the players at all, then they will hopefully put in some more female players. I love the current female characters (especially Peach, for her innocence) but I feel like Smash Bros needs atleast 5 more.
  
  Lyn and Micaiah are at the top of my list. They are beautiful but not sexualized characters with a lot of potential. That, and they represent my favorite Nintendo franchise other than Smash Bros. As far as video games go, Fire Emblem found the perfect balance of beautiful and classy on (the majority of) their female characters.
  
  I would also like to see Mona (Wario Ware Inc.), Rosalina (Mario), the female PT from Leaf Green and Fire Red, and Paula (Earthbound).
  
  @ Spire
  I too feel bad that F-Zero and Star Fox are going under. I hope that these series get some more great games to revive them.
  
  As much as I love Fire Emblem, I hate to see other series go down (even Donkey Kong... and I hate Donkey Kong). I would not want to see any franchise fall under, because that means less diversity in the future SSB rosters and in the gaming population.
  
  And you should play a Fire Emblem game some time. The music on Path of Radiance is really quite amazing (once you unlock the sound room, you find that some are exciting, some are sorrowful, and some are quite beautiful.) The artwork is quite incredible (if Marth, Roy, and Ike hadn't already shown that.) The storylines are really good.
  The only real reason not to play is if you aren't a fan of strategy games of its kind.

 

[PKboy89]

I'm sorry but mother doesn't deserve 3 reps (I didn't think it deserved 2 in brawl)they're fun games but there are only 3(there will never be a 4th) and only one made it outside japan I say just Ness next game Idon't hate Lucas i just don't think he's important enough to the rest of the world.

Well, when Earthbound was released in America, the idea of RPG games wasn't very popular in America yet...the RPG game style was still new, America was getting used to final fantasy and all of a sudden, the weirdest of RPG's comes out...the first battle is with a dog and involves some fat kid using you as a shield, it makes sense that Earthbound didn't do so well in America, we needed to catch up to style and genre. Regardless, Ness and Lucas are both very important to Nintendo's history, the Mother series is considered to be one of the greatest RPG's ever made. Its so original and creative, to bad there are so many people who fail to see how amazing of a series it really is.

Many of the games need could use more reps...the Mario series is pretty much just getting started, we all know that at least Bowser Jr. and Waluigi are going to be in the next game (if there is one) Me being a huge Earthbound fan, I think more characters would be awesome, and they should clean up Ness and Lucas. All of Ness' special attacks, except for flash, aren't even his...at least give him PSI Rockin as a final smash...Lucas should have PK Love as a final smash, and Poo should have the starstorm since it was orginally his move...and he could be a very unique character. He was a martial artist and had a sword if you found it, his attacks would be a mix of PSI powers and martial arts, that would just be awesome. Metroid seriously needs at least one more character...not samus in a different suit...one of the hunters from corruption would be nice...

Yes, we really do need more female fighters, they add a certain twist to the game, all of the female fighters we have so far are pretty amazing, and fun to play. Lyn should defiantly be in, and of course, Paula. She originally knew most of the PSI attacks...fire, thunder, freeze, her special moves would defiantly surpass Ness and Lucas

 

[Fabrian]

I'm fine if the give ganondorf a sword. IT HAS TO BE 2 Handed, or he has to dual weild. Or aleast a trident... He's had something in his hands in everygame but Smash why?

 

[Kiki52]

@ Chris Lionheart

I rethought about the Lucas thing again. I don't think I'd like it if Lucas SSB4. Lucas is too engrained into people for him to leave. I never thought that the reason why people don't like Ness is because he has a high pitched voice for a 13 year old boy. I personally liked Lucas' voice better than Ness but I still like Ness a lot more than Lucas. Lucas seems more manly to me, even if he acts the opposite in SSE.

About Roy, I know a lot of people like him too so I thought the best thing to do in SSB4 is Roy shouldn't have his own little card to select him but instead there should be this very super secret and somewhat hard to get thing where you unlock it, you unlock Roy as an alt character for Marth. Different model, different voices, different damage and other stats. But it should be very hard to get and hidden, which makes it all the more fun to unlock Roy in SSB4. Just like how it is hard to unlock Wolf, except tougher

Besides Chris, what made you choose Paula over Claus? That goes much against the grain there. She is female after all, but I still like her over someone along the lines of Kumatora because of how more diverse her moveset would be over someone who yawns, gets angry, acts like a tomboy and punches people. That would fit Daisy more if she was an alt of Peach like Roy should be of Marth.

@ everyone

I think even if Earthbound gets 3 reps, Nintendo should try to diversify their roster with as many franchises as possible as long as they are good. That is why I like retro characters like Sukapon, Takamaru, and odd cute small things like DeMille and Muddy Mole. I like variety and more small cute non-humanoids, the better. Even if they look childish, kiddy, annoying, and cute the better. The more of those cute things like Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers we have, the more "allowance" we can have for awesome realistic human characters like Snake. Many people don't like Snake because he's looks too serious and realistic for this game. As long as we balance him out with a majority cute/small/wierdness factor then we can add more of the opposite without turning this game into DoA or Soul Calibur or Street Fighter type game.

We need to think outside the box.

@ BlueMoonMan
You have a LOT of good ideas. I wish Nintendo would listen to you, it's not all characters that people want. A lot of good features could make or break this game as well.

@ PKBoy
Your right. Earthbound perhaps was released too early in America, at a time when RPGs weren't so popular. Either that, or Nintendo messed up badly with marketing it. That is why Nintendo probably doesn't want to put EB on the VC but it did get rated by the ESRB lately so maybe it could come.

I also hope if they do include Paula, she better not have an even higher pitched voice than Ness. Then everyone would hate her more than Ness Although a moveset for her should be very different than the formula they use for Ness and Lucas now, as you said they should clean up Ness and Lucas moveset a bit.

 

[Spire]

The Mario series is pretty much just getting started.

Pardon my asking, but WHAT?

About Roy, I know a lot of people like him too so I thought the best thing to do in SSB4 is Roy shouldn't have his own little card to select him but instead there should be this very super secret and somewhat hard to get thing where you unlock it, you unlock Roy as an alt character for Marth. Different model, different voices, different damage and other stats. But it should be very hard to get and hidden, which makes it all the more fun to unlock Roy in SSB4. Just like how it is hard to unlock Wolf, except tougher

@ everyone

I think even if Earthbound gets 3 reps, Nintendo should try to diversify their roster with as many franchises as possible as long as they are good. That is why I like retro characters like Sukapon, Takamaru, and odd cute small things like DeMille and Muddy Mole. I like variety and more small cute non-humanoids, the better. Even if they look childish, kiddy, annoying, and cute the better. The more of those cute things like Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers we have, the more "allowance" we can have for awesome realistic human characters like Snake. Many people don't like Snake because he's looks too serious and realistic for this game. As long as we balance him out with a majority cute/small/wierdness factor then we can add more of the opposite without turning this game into DoA or Soul Calibur or Street Fighter type game.

We need to think outside the box.

Roy was never important enough. He does not need to return. By the time SSB4 comes out, there will be (and already are) enough characters in Fire Emblem to be included, rather than Roy. He is completely unnecessary. We have Marth, and he carries on the spirit of both he AND Roy.

Also, the more cute characters we have, the more unbalanced it feels when you pit them against someone like Snake. He would then stand out so much more than he already does. Your logic makes no sense at all. We have enough "cute characters" already. When adding characters, they must add a rational amount of "realistic" and "cartoony", so that it continues to feel balanced. Adding a load of "cute" characters is bull, and would soften up the game, contrasting the roster way too much, and compromising the overall integrity and target audience for the game. It would drive older gamers away, rather filling their spots with much younger players.

 

[PKboy89]

I'm fine if the give ganondorf a sword. IT HAS TO BE 2 Handed, or he has to dual weild. Or aleast a trident... He's had something in his hands in everygame but Smash why?

Agreed!!!! Or least his own moveset...but Toon Ganondorf duel wielding swords would be AMAZING, I would soooooo main him.

Jeff should be in the game...the slime generator, bottle rockets, bombs, he would seem like a very gadgety fighter like Snake, which are always fun to play

Hmm...what new francises could we add? *cough megaman cough* Tom Nook would be the best and most broken character ever, period, his character is just screaming "make me roflcopterpwn, I got the potential..."

As for what I said about the Mario series...they have only begun to add Mario characters...eventually every single character in the Mario series will be in the game, I'm sure of it...it'll be Mario Kart except with fighting and no karts

 

[Chris Lionheart]

@ Chris Lionheart

I rethought about the Lucas thing again. I don't think I'd like it if Lucas SSB4. Lucas is too engrained into people for him to leave. I never thought that the reason why people don't like Ness is because he has a high pitched voice for a 13 year old boy. I personally liked Lucas' voice better than Ness but I still like Ness a lot more than Lucas. Lucas seems more manly to me, even if he acts the opposite in SSE.

About Roy, I know a lot of people like him too so I thought the best thing to do in SSB4 is Roy shouldn't have his own little card to select him but instead there should be this very super secret and somewhat hard to get thing where you unlock it, you unlock Roy as an alt character for Marth. Different model, different voices, different damage and other stats. But it should be very hard to get and hidden, which makes it all the more fun to unlock Roy in SSB4. Just like how it is hard to unlock Wolf, except tougher

Besides Chris, what made you choose Paula over Claus? That goes much against the grain there. She is female after all, but I still like her over someone along the lines of Kumatora because of how more diverse her moveset would be over someone who yawns, gets angry, acts like a tomboy and punches people. That would fit Daisy more if she was an alt of Peach like Roy should be of Marth.

@ everyone

I think even if Earthbound gets 3 reps, Nintendo should try to diversify their roster with as many franchises as possible as long as they are good. That is why I like retro characters like Sukapon, Takamaru, and odd cute small things like DeMille and Muddy Mole. I like variety and more small cute non-humanoids, the better. Even if they look childish, kiddy, annoying, and cute the better. The more of those cute things like Jigglypuff and Ice Climbers we have, the more "allowance" we can have for awesome realistic human characters like Snake. Many people don't like Snake because he's looks too serious and realistic for this game. As long as we balance him out with a majority cute/small/wierdness factor then we can add more of the opposite without turning this game into DoA or Soul Calibur or Street Fighter type game.

We need to think outside the box.

@ BlueMoonMan
You have a LOT of good ideas. I wish Nintendo would listen to you, it's not all characters that people want. A lot of good features could make or break this game as well.

@ PKBoy
Your right. Earthbound perhaps was released too early in America, at a time when RPGs weren't so popular. Either that, or Nintendo messed up badly with marketing it. That is why Nintendo probably doesn't want to put EB on the VC but it did get rated by the ESRB lately so maybe it could come.

I also hope if they do include Paula, she better not have an even higher pitched voice than Ness. Then everyone would hate her more than Ness Although a moveset for her should be very different than the formula they use for Ness and Lucas now, as you said they should clean up Ness and Lucas moveset a bit.

I know who Paula is... I have very little idea who Claus is other than him being the masked man and Lucas's brother. Claus is also an outfit for Lucas so he is technically in the game if only subtly.

I liked the idea of Paula being in SSB4 after seeing a moveset for Paula in the Make Your Move 2.0 contest.

And I'm glad I made you rethink your opinion a little.

And @ everyone... Why should reasonably good reps from any worthly game be turned down. Its not like the roster can only take so many people. If necessary they could even put a SCROLL BAR on the roster to extend its size by so much.

As long as characters have enough effort put into balancing them (we don't want anymore MKs, Snakes, and GaWs running around) then I don't see why the removal of a character or heavy competition between two popular nominations is even necessary. This is a video game roster, not the presidency.

 

[Kiki52]

Also, the more cute characters we have, the more unbalanced it feels when you pit them against someone like Snake. He would then stand out so much more than he already does. Your logic makes no sense at all. We have enough "cute characters" already. When adding characters, they must add a rational amount of "realistic" and "cartoony", so that it continues to feel balanced. Adding a load of "cute" characters is bull, and would soften up the game, contrasting the roster way too much, and compromising the overall integrity and target audience for the game. It would drive older gamers away, rather filling their spots with much younger players.

Hmm. I was always under the impression that the Smash series and Nintendo in general was always about the cute and cartoony (Jiggs, Ice Climbers, Kirby) rather than realistic (Snake) or semi-realistic (Ike, Marth). Well, if it is true that people prefer a 'balance' of realistic and cartoony and it is not a 1: 9 ration of realistic vs cartoony than that appeals to me and probably more older players as well. I don't know the ratio really.

I personally would have liked more realistic human or humanoid characters in SSB4, and if people want a balance then that gives us more leeway in putting more of them in SSB4.

It is just a friend of mine said he personally would find it distasteful to have any realistic humans in smash and Snake was pushing it to the limit already. Having 2 of them would be too much already for him, so I guess he was saying SSB is about the cartoony and cute characters primarily and it should stay that way 100%.

So we can have more Snake, Alexandra Roivas, Pious Augustus, Master Chief and Altair in SSB4 (j/k about the Master Chief and Altair part). Not sure if people would have liked Alexandra or Pious either, but they are 2nd parties to Nintendo.

@ Christ Lionheart

Oh I just saw your message now

I was the one who made the Paula Polestar moveset. I am glad you liked it. I was thinking of revising her moveset on the Make Your Own Character 2.0 thread if it wasn't graded already, primarily the B moves as well potentially adding more wierd characters to that thread, thinking along the lines of Salahuddin Ayyub and the Apache warrior Geronimo.

I agree with you about the maximum number of character thing. The reason why many people want to see characters cut I think is because people believe there is going to a shortage, and yes it almost seems like they are running for 'presidency'. If SSB4 can introduce 55 characters for the whole roster, that'd be great. I think realistically 55 characters would be a good and viable number, even more than the 45-50 range most people have. Those extra 5 can make a big difference.

Sakurai should hire a team of game players to balance the game for him. He is just one man, not a team of people in and of himself. Being just a man, he is fallable too. I think with Snake's moveset, Sakraui let his own personal biases get in the way and that is why Snake is awfully broken. I mean, he literally weighs as much as King Dedede, and I don't think his equipment and other things should make him THAT heavy. His attacks are just as powerful as Dedede's too and Snakes faster. There are few moves he has that cannot KO you. It's silly for Sakurai to think he can do everything by himself. Everyone good corporate manager knows that that everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and no one can do everything by themselves.

 

[PKboy89]

I know who Paula is... I have very little idea who Claus is other than him being the masked man and Lucas's brother. Claus is also an outfit for Lucas so he is technically in the game if only subtly.

I liked the idea of Paula being in SSB4 after seeing a moveset for Paula in the Make Your Move 2.0 contest.

And I'm glad I made you rethink your opinion a little.

And @ everyone... Why should reasonably good reps from any worthly game be turned down. Its not like the roster can only take so many people. If necessary they could even put a SCROLL BAR on the roster to extend its size by so much.

As long as characters have enough effort put into balancing them (we don't want anymore MKs, Snakes, and GaWs running around) then I don't see why the removal of a character or heavy competition between two popular nominations is even necessary. This is a video game roster, not the presidency.

I never saw Paula's moveset in that thread, I gotta check it out, I made one for Darth Vader...extremely overpowered, but he's Vader, he should be...

Ok back on topic, I feel you Chris with the balancing effort, but that will never happen...the more Sakurai attempted to balance the game, the worse it got (zomg Snake's uptilt wtf?!) We'll always have Metaknights flying around and disjointed Snake hitboxes...

Yes, I think we should be focusing more on features rather then characters, no matter what there will always be new characters, but what about the features?

But now that you think of it...wouldn't a super large rooster with a scroll bar be kinda weird? lol

 

[Chris Lionheart]

I never saw Paula's moveset in that thread, I gotta check it out, I made one for Darth Vader...extremely overpowered, but he's Vader, he should be...

Ok back on topic, I feel you Chris with the balancing effort, but that will never happen...the more Sakurai attempted to balance the game, the worse it got (zomg Snake's uptilt wtf?!) We'll always have Metaknights flying around and disjointed Snake hitboxes...

But now that you think of it...wouldn't a super large rooster with a scroll bar be kinda weird? lol

I don't really feel that a super large roster with a scroll bar would be weird.

As long as the series continues, then it will reach the point where space is a huge issue someday (its already pressing that). A scroll bar is the simplest and most effective solution to the problem...

I wasn't trying to suggest go and find every little obsurd and unknown character and put them in Brawl. I was just simply stating that any character worthy of getting in can and probably should (and no anime characters like Goku are not worthy).

And its true that perfect balance can never happen... but if some common sense and better testing and balancing effort were put in, we would see a lot less of Snake's Wtf Up Tilt or the PIIIIIKKKAAAA!!! of death. Things like the IC and D3 chaingrabs are definitely not hard to rid SSB of if Nintendo would put in said effort.

 

[PKboy89]

I don't really feel that a super large roster with a scroll bar would be weird.

As long as the series continues, then it will reach the point where space is a huge issue someday (its already pressing that). A scroll bar is the simplest and most effective solution to the problem...

I wasn't trying to suggest go and find every little obsurd and unknown character and put them in Brawl. I was just simply stating that any character worthy of getting in can and probably should (and no anime characters like Goku are not worthy).

And its true that perfect balance can never happen... but if some common sense and better testing and balancing effort were put in, we would see a lot less of Snake's Wtf Up Tilt or the PIIIIIKKKAAAA!!! of death. Things like the IC and D3 chaingrabs are definitely not hard to rid SSB of if Nintendo would put in said effort.

Yea, you're right with the balancing...who ever tested Snake and didn't realize that his uptilt is a long as DK's down tilt should be fired and beaten...

I swear, if Goku ever makes it in, I will kill myself...

Yea, at some point there would have to be a scroll bar, and all the cool characters that would be in it >.<

 

[Spire]

And @ everyone... Why should reasonably good reps from any worthly game be turned down. Its not like the roster can only take so many people. If necessary they could even put a SCROLL BAR on the roster to extend its size by so much.

As long as characters have enough effort put into balancing them (we don't want anymore MKs, Snakes, and GaWs running around) then I don't see why the removal of a character or heavy competition between two popular nominations is even necessary. This is a video game roster, not the presidency.

Boundaries are made for reasons. You can't run out of bounds in Football, using referees, coaches, and others as meatshields to defend yourself from your pursuers. Boundaries are set to contain chaos. Too many characters would overflow the roster and the game, skyrocketing the level of entropy. Yes, many other characters were considered for brawl, and others in production for inclusion, however, to contain the game, and to not overflow it, they had to be cut.

Brawl was not just made to be a party game, it was designed for everyone - casual players and competitive players alike. In favor of the competitive players, it kept the roster condensed as much as possible, with a wide variety of characters from many different games. In order to compete, you must learn your character(s) inside and out, and in order to know how to play them efficiently, you must train against all other characters in the roster so you can learn how to counter them.

Competition is not all about wavedashing, L-canceling, and other AT's, it's about knowing how to play, and how to play against each and every selectable opponent (which is probably why those moves were removed). Certain techniques will help you yes, but if you are not prepared for a specific type of battle, then your skills may not save you. That's why such a variety of characters, items, and stages were created. Yeah, you could be a master at flat stages like FD and Smashville, but if for some reason, you're pitted in New Pork City, your techniques relevant to a flatform may no longer apply, and you may find yourself ranking low.

To master a game, you must know everything about it, and by expanding the roster massively, it would hurt the competition, further upheaving the chaos.

 

[Kiki52]

Just made me think right now. Do you think this is what Sakurai meant when he wanted this game to be for casuals only and did everything he could to stop competitive play (like putting in tripping?) Now that I think about it, not even casuals like tripping either.
But just a wierd thought in the back of my head that since Sakurai doesn't favor competitive play and competitive play wants balance, so therefore Sakurai will want to unbalance the characters to try to ensure competitive play doesn't fester.

I think for SSB4, Nintendo would be best if they hired a new person with very innovative ideas to bring new things to the table. I don't think competition is necessarily a bad thing, but I think that if SSB4 was made a bit more friendly to both competitive AND casual players alike, balance would be more on the forefront.

Perhaps, it is just a thought I could be wrong.

They need DLC patches so even if they did have a massive roster, if players complain a lot that so and so is unbalanced they can at least think of changing him. Many games of all types gone through many patches to get to the balance they are now. They could save them to the Wii hard drive, I don't think a bunch of code would take too much space.

 

[PKboy89]

Tripping into a falcon punch at a 10,000 dollar tournament...so unfair for competitive players...smash bros will end being a mario party on crack eventually...

LOL football with smashballs would be hilarious, sorry, random

 

[Rioluu^_~]

I have wanted one character to appear in Smash since 64 and that is Banjo Kazooie (not sure if he's been mentioned). I am aware that he is 3rd party and owned by rare but c'mon Nintendo throw me a bone here. He could have Kazooie in his backpack perhaps.

Moveset could look something like this:

Neutral B "Garble": Banjo Opens his mouth and a stream of garbled noise damages enemy (perhaps similar to Bowser's fire?)

Side B "Phoenix Dash": Banjo lets out kazooie and dashes across the stage (used like falco/ ike/ MK take your pick)

Down B "Phoenix Splash": Kazooie returns from the backpack once again but this time to let out a spurt of energy at an enemy attack. (effectively a counter like peach's)

Up B "Phoenix Ascent": Kazooie spreads his wings and jolts upwards while spinning (curvable like Lucario's but doing damage similar to Wario's)

For all A attacks and smashes just take variations of banjo smacking them with his fists/ nose. And on smashes let him pull out the banjo.


Final Smash (perhaps a combination of Luigi, Donkey Kong, and Marth's?) "The Last Song": Banjo strums out a tune on the banjo while all opponents are temoprarily disabled, depending on whether or not you press buttons in sync and store up the energy of the song in the banjo you will hit harder or softer. Banjo then uses Kazooie to dash to the nearest opponent and unleash the energy of the music that was stored up in the banjo and damage is handed out accordingly.

I know it may seem like its just ripping off others or something, but im sure there are ways that my uncreative mind cant think of to make him a fun character. Feedback would be appreciated. I apologize for being such a noob.

 

[Professional Idiot]

There should definitely be an option to use the Japanese voices for characters. It's not very hard to implement, and a lot of people would enjoy it. Seriously, I have never ever heard a voice in a game where the English voice actor was better than the Japanese one. Ever.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Boundaries are made for reasons. You can't run out of bounds in Football, using referees, coaches, and others as meatshields to defend yourself from your pursuers. Boundaries are set to contain chaos. Too many characters would overflow the roster and the game, skyrocketing the level of entropy. Yes, many other characters were considered for brawl, and others in production for inclusion, however, to contain the game, and to not overflow it, they had to be cut.

Brawl was not just made to be a party game, it was designed for everyone - casual players and competitive players alike. In favor of the competitive players, it kept the roster condensed as much as possible, with a wide variety of characters from many different games. In order to compete, you must learn your character(s) inside and out, and in order to know how to play them efficiently, you must train against all other characters in the roster so you can learn how to counter them.

Competition is not all about wavedashing, L-canceling, and other AT's, it's about knowing how to play, and how to play against each and every selectable opponent (which is probably why those moves were removed). Certain techniques will help you yes, but if you are not prepared for a specific type of battle, then your skills may not save you. That's why such a variety of characters, items, and stages were created. Yeah, you could be a master at flat stages like FD and Smashville, but if for some reason, you're pitted in New Pork City, your techniques relevant to a flatform may no longer apply, and you may find yourself ranking low.

To master a game, you must know everything about it, and by expanding the roster massively, it would hurt the competition, further upheaving the chaos.

But even in a game with a larger roster and "more chaos" as you call it, the best player would still usually win and thus competition could still exist and flourish.

Like it or not, if Smash continues to grow, it will someday need a scroll bar. Noone wants their character to be cut and there will always be characters that are suggested by a massive amount of players for as long as Smash Bros exists.

Sure you can use alternate outfits, but they can only do so much.

If anything, having a greater number a characters would make tier lists less important and the make matchups more variable to the point where all it boils down to is...
Who is the better player?

 

[Spire]

I have wanted one character to appear in Smash since 64 and that is Banjo Kazooie (not sure if he's been mentioned). I am aware that he is 3rd party and owned by rare but c'mon Nintendo throw me a bone here. He could have Kazooie in his backpack perhaps.

Moveset could look something like this:

Neutral B "Garble": Banjo Opens his mouth and a stream of garbled noise damages enemy (perhaps similar to Bowser's fire?)

Side B "Phoenix Dash": Banjo lets out kazooie and dashes across the stage (used like falco/ ike/ MK take your pick)

Down B "Phoenix Splash": Kazooie returns from the backpack once again but this time to let out a spurt of energy at an enemy attack. (effectively a counter like peach's)

Up B "Phoenix Ascent": Kazooie spreads his wings and jolts upwards while spinning (curvable like Lucario's but doing damage similar to Wario's)

For all A attacks and smashes just take variations of banjo smacking them with his fists/ nose. And on smashes let him pull out the banjo.


Final Smash (perhaps a combination of Luigi, Donkey Kong, and Marth's?) "The Last Song": Banjo strums out a tune on the banjo while all opponents are temoprarily disabled, depending on whether or not you press buttons in sync and store up the energy of the song in the banjo you will hit harder or softer. Banjo then uses Kazooie to dash to the nearest opponent and unleash the energy of the music that was stored up in the banjo and damage is handed out accordingly.

I know it may seem like its just ripping off others or something, but im sure there are ways that my uncreative mind cant think of to make him a fun character. Feedback would be appreciated. I apologize for being such a noob.

That majority of us would love to see Banjo-Kazooie appear as a character, but unfortunately, as long as Microsoft is pulling RARE's strings, it will definitely not happen.

It's interesting to note that the B-moves would primarily be based around Kazooie, while the A-moves would (I'm guessing) be based around Banjo. Separating the two between smashes and specials is an interesting concept, but combining them would probably be the most worthwhile thing to do (just as Olimar actually smashes by using his Pikmin, rather than just hitting with his barehands - when armed).

Also, don't apologize for being a noob. You only make yourself look even more "noobish" for accepting the title. Don't beat yourself up, we aren't Gods or anything Oh, and welcome to the boards.

There should definitely be an option to use the Japanese voices for characters. It's not very hard to implement, and a lot of people would enjoy it. Seriously, I have never ever heard a voice in a game where the English voice actor was better than the Japanese one. Ever.

Hey Professional Idiot, how about Pit?

But even in a game with a larger roster and "more chaos" as you call it, the best player would still usually win and thus competition could still exist and flourish.

Like it or not, if Smash continues to grow, it will someday need a scroll bar. Noone wants their character to be cut and there will always be characters that are suggested by a massive amount of players for as long as Smash Bros exists.

Sure you can use alternate outfits, but they can only do so much.

Part of the beauty of Smash Bros is seeing all of the playable characters on screen at once. Just looking through them, standing side-by-side is a great feeling. Also, once you've unlocked a character, it opens the roster up more, pushing characters apart. The roster - in an essence - grows, and it just feels... natural. A scroll bar is just out of the question, and would destroy that homely feel that the roster brings. It's always a joy to just look at all of the available characters grouped together, and knowing that you can select any of them to play as. A scroll bar eliminates that. Alternate outfits "layers" the characters, so it does not harm the good ol' roster.

If anything, they should just expand the roster and shrink the "space" that each character takes up. I'd prefer that over a scroll bar any day.

 

[Samurai_Sushi]

This one seems pretty solid except for some of the no's.

Star Fox could use another rep and Krystal has a lot of unique potential that none of the others have.

Kirby has several characters (namely Biospark, Knuckle Joe, and Sword Knight & Blade Knight) that have a lot of promise.

Also, I agree with Ridley not being compatable as a character. Sylux would be great, but I like all the opposing hunters (especially Noxus and Weavel) and hope that they all get representation. Metroid is a very large franchise and that many reps wouldn't be uncalled for.

And don't you think a female PT with Piplup, Bayleef, and Blaziken would be better than one with Bulbasaur, Combusken, and Feraligator?

Actually for the revamped PT, I was thinking that the female and male characters of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc could just be alternate costumes like wario. Except then that would be around 8 costumes including just our current 4 generations, and assuming that there will be around 2 more, a total of 12 different costumes, male and female for each gen.

now that I think about it, I like the idea of the PT having 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen pokes the best, I just really want feraligatr...

I really don't know much about kirby save the main three, Knuckle Joe would be cool but I don't really think he is iconic to the Kirby franchise, but I don't know much about him. Has he been playable or has he been a primary antagonist?

I really have nothing against Krystal, I just don't see what's so special about her. If I were in charge, I would replace Falco with her, since Wolf represents the antagonist side of Star Fox. However Falco has made it in two smash games already, which I think solidifies his chances of staying. I just don't feel that the Starfox series is as well known and as important to Nintendo as Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, etc. All I'm saying is that I don't think it deserves the same amount of reps as the likes of Mario. But I really wouldn't care if Mario got another rep along with Zelda, which I really think they will get.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Part of the beauty of Smash Bros is seeing all of the playable characters on screen at once. Just looking through them, standing side-by-side is a great feeling. Also, once you've unlocked a character, it opens the roster up more, pushing characters apart. The roster - in an essence - grows, and it just feels... natural. A scroll bar is just out of the question, and would destroy that homely feel that the roster brings. It's always a joy to just look at all of the available characters grouped together, and knowing that you can select any of them to play as. A scroll bar eliminates that. Alternate outfits "layers" the characters, so it does not harm the good ol' roster.

If anything, they should just expand the roster and shrink the "space" that each character takes up. I'd prefer that over a scroll bar any day.

That was unbelieveably corny. A lot of times alternate outfits are not possible due to massive differences between the characters. And shrinking the space would eventually reach its limits as well.

The scroll bar might eventually be a necessity (depending on how many characters are added and how long the series runs) because shrinking the pallets could only reduce the space by so much. And with shrinking, you run the risk of making characters unnoticed and/or more difficult to find. And if the selection coin were bigger than the pallets, imagine how hard that would make selection.

The only way shrinking would work when the roster becomes really big is to remove the coin selector and make characters selectable by moving the control pad with the square of the character your currently on being highlighted or having a ring around it to show where your selector is.

@ Samurai Sushi
Star Fox is an important and iconic series to Nintendo, despite its current situation with sinking. Adding Krystal would only boost it to 4 reps. Mario currently has 4 reps, not counting the 3 other characters that come from Mario and are representing other series (Wario, Donkey Kong, Yoshi). It is very likely that Baby Bowser, Walluigi, and even Rosalina, perhaps even Geno could be added due to popular demand. Zelda is likely to get atleast one more character if not more. Metroid will likely get more due to the huge amount of complaining about more reps being necessary. And its almost an inevitability that Poke'mon and Fire Emblem will get more reps.
Krystal is special because she can be made to use the staff from Star Fox Adventures making her the only staff wielder in the entire game. The staff has so many possibilities alongside her innate power of telekinesis that its hard to fathom Krystal's boundaries.
Krystal is also very important to the plot of the recent Star Fox games due to her being Fox's love interest. (I've never played Star Fox Command so I don't know how their relationship ends up.)

 

[SirKibble]

I really don't know much about kirby save the main three, Knuckle Joe would be cool but I don't really think he is iconic to the Kirby franchise, but I don't know much about him. Has he been playable or has he been a primary antagonist?

Important Notes About Knuckle Joe (whether anyone thinks they matter or not)

- Knuckle Joe was playable as a helper character in Kirby Super Star.

- Knuckle Joe is one of the only characters Kirby can get one of his most versatile abilities, Fighter, from.

- Knuckle Joe was the main antagonist for an episode or two of the Kirby anime (I know we talk down to animes, but how do you think Pikachu and Jigglypuff were chosen.)

- Knuckle Joe is practically the trademark owner of one of Kirby's now-signature moves, the Vulcan Jab.

- Knuckle Joe (as you all know) is the only Kirby character aside from the main three to be included in Brawl in any way, shape, or form other than regular trophies.


Now I'm sure some of these points are irrelevant, but I felt they were all worth mentioning. I really want to see Knuckle Joe in.

 

[Chris Lionheart]

Important Notes About Knuckle Joe (whether anyone thinks they matter or not)

- Knuckle Joe was playable as a helper character in Kirby Super Star.

- Knuckle Joe is one of the only characters Kirby can get one of his most versatile abilities, Fighter, from.

- Knuckle Joe was the main antagonist for an episode or two of the Kirby anime (I know we talk down to animes, but how do you think Pikachu and Jigglypuff were chosen.)

- Knuckle Joe is practically the trademark owner of one of Kirby's now-signature moves, the Vulcan Jab.

- Knuckle Joe (as you all know) is the only Kirby character aside from the main three to be included in Brawl in any way, shape, or form other than regular trophies.


Now I'm sure some of these points are irrelevant, but I felt they were all worth mentioning. I really want to see Knuckle Joe in.

Seconded, and after seeing your entry for Biospark in the Make Your Move 2.0 Contest, I really want to see him in SSB4 as well.

 

[Spire]

That was unbelieveably corny. A lot of times alternate outfits are not possible due to massive differences between the characters. And shrinking the space would eventually reach its limits as well.

The scroll bar might eventually be a necessity (depending on how many characters are added and how long the series runs) because shrinking the pallets could only reduce the space by so much. And with shrinking, you run the risk of making characters unnoticed and/or more difficult to find. And if the selection coin were bigger than the pallets, imagine how hard that would make selection.

The only way shrinking would work when the roster becomes really big is to remove the coin selector and make characters selectable by moving the control pad with the square of the character your currently on being highlighted or having a ring around it to show where your selector is.

Well, there's also a difference between what's reasonable and what's right. There have been many long-running fighting series, but never have I seen one that uses a scrollbar. While reasoning should always be used, what's right; what's best for the game should get priority. If the roster expanded so much that a scroll bar would be reasonable, I would instead prefer some characters to be cut for the sake of what's best.

Also, judging from what you've written in the past, I didn't take you to be the type to criticize others for what they say; rather stating your thoughts on progression for the subject matter. I don't mean to burn bridges with you, or anyone for that matter, but I am entitled to what I feel is right, and may say what I feel is best for the game. You've been doing the same yourself, yet I have never criticized you. Why war, when you can build?

 

[Deathcarter]

I just had an idea for a new character: Carmen Sandiego.

Just think about how awesome it would be to hear the announcer say "Carmen Sandiego" .

 

[SirKibble]

Seconded, and after seeing your entry for Biospark in the Make Your Move 2.0 Contest, I really want to see him in SSB4 as well.

As much as I'd love to see that, too, I think that one's a little more far-fetched.

Even though he was wall-clinging before any of the rest of these goons, and is the rightful owner of Kirby's Piledriver...... No, I'm not bitter, lol.

 

[Samurai_Sushi]

Important Notes About Knuckle Joe (whether anyone thinks they matter or not)

- Knuckle Joe was playable as a helper character in Kirby Super Star.

- Knuckle Joe is one of the only characters Kirby can get one of his most versatile abilities, Fighter, from.

- Knuckle Joe was the main antagonist for an episode or two of the Kirby anime (I know we talk down to animes, but how do you think Pikachu and Jigglypuff were chosen.)

- Knuckle Joe is practically the trademark owner of one of Kirby's now-signature moves, the Vulcan Jab.

- Knuckle Joe (as you all know) is the only Kirby character aside from the main three to be included in Brawl in any way, shape, or form other than regular trophies.


Now I'm sure some of these points are irrelevant, but I felt they were all worth mentioning. I really want to see Knuckle Joe in.

Interesting, I'll have to go look him up some more. I do like the noises he makes when he sucks people into a blender of fists.

 

[gallax]

i have a kool idea(at least to me). sonics upB should have tails carry him up. also...include knuckles in
SSB4.