[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[BG3]

Ridley would make the fans happy? Really? Which fans? The Metroid fans in general or the Ridley fanboys? The Ridley fanboys use the "Metroid needs more representation" argument as a reason why Ridley should be playable. Well, the Metroid franchise have the following:

- Samus as a playable character
- Zero Suit Samus as a playable character
- Norfair as a stage
- Frigate Orpheon as a stage
- Brinstar as a stage
- Metroid as an Assist Trophy
- Ridley as a boss
- Meta Ridley as a boss
- Super Metroid as a Masterpiece
- tons of trophies, stickers, and music
- and even a Samus vs. Ridley scene in the Adventure Mode

I'd say the Metroid franchise is getting plenty of representation. Really, it seems to me that Ridley fanboys use the "Metroid needs more representation" as a smokescreen to hide their true reason why Ridley should be playable in Smash... they just want Ridley to be on the roster. I mean, it looks like Sakurai tried to make the Metroid fans in general happy and to showcase the mainstream audience what the Metroid series is all about... only the Ridley fanboys aren't happy about it and claim that Sakurai is not representing the Metroid franchise properly.

No offense, but that's kind of a weak argument explaining how Metroid is getting represented properly. Metroid is usually the franchise that gets neglected among the smash series. Plenty of other series already have what you just mentioned. About all the things you mentioned are present in every other series practically. Some of the things you mentioned are absolute mandatory. If a big franchise like Metroid is in Smash, then it has to have a stage, that's been common knowledge in Smash since the beginning. You can't say Sakurai is representing them properly because he's simply giving the franchise what it deserves(New characters, stages, etc.)

 

[Arcadenik]

No offense, but that's kind of a weak argument explaining how Metroid is getting represented properly. Metroid is usually the franchise that gets neglected among the smash series. Plenty of other series already have what you just mentioned. About all the things you mentioned are present in every other series practically. Some of the things you mentioned are absolute mandatory. If a big franchise like Metroid is in Smash, then it has to have a stage, that's been common knowledge in Smash since the beginning. You can't say Sakurai is representing them properly because he's simply giving the franchise what it deserves(New characters, stages, etc.)

Playable characters are not the only thing that matters. Having a stage for a playable character is not mandatory. It has always been like this since the first game.

Ness and Captain Falcon have no stages in SSB. Marth and Roy have no stages in Melee. R.O.B. have no stages in Brawl.

Animal Crossing gets plenty of representation despite having no playable characters:

- Smashville as a stage
- Mr. Resetti as an Assist Trophy
- Pitfall as an item
- tons of trophies, stickers, and music

Electroplankton only got a stage and a few stickers but no playable characters.

The point Sakurai is showing us is that playable characters are not the only thing that matters. I don't think this point was made clear enough in Melee with the trophies. I would think that the addition of stickers and especially Assist Trophies in Brawl would make this point more clear.

 

[lordvaati]

- Super Metroid as a Masterpiece

in more ways than one

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

There's something that's been bothering me regarding the next game's controls. Assuming that SSB4 is on the next console and will NOT have support for Gamecube controllers, what do you think will happen? Do you think people will adapt to the newest controller or perhaps get a custom fightstick for the game?

If its Classic controller pro (Dual shock lol) compatible, then i don't mind -seeing as how most of the toughest opponents i've ever faught are Classic controller users.
Maybe i should make the switch already.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Playable characters are not the only thing that matters. Having a stage for a playable character is not mandatory. It has always been like this since the first game.

Ness and Captain Falcon have no stages in SSB. Marth and Roy have no stages in Melee. R.O.B. have no stages in Brawl.

Animal Crossing gets plenty of representation despite having no playable characters:

- Smashville as a stage
- Mr. Resetti as an Assist Trophy
- Pitfall as an item
- tons of trophies, stickers, and music

Electroplankton only got a stage and a few stickers but no playable characters.

The point Sakurai is showing us is that playable characters are not the only thing that matters. I don't think this point was made clear enough in Melee with the trophies. I would think that the addition of stickers and especially Assist Trophies in Brawl would make this point more clear.

Actually, they are the only thing that matters. The rest is fluff.
Ridley should be playable.

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2IC-mFnM34

FFFFFFfffffffffFFFF

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If its Classic controller pro (Dual shock lol) compatible, then i don't mind -seeing as how most of the toughest opponents i've ever faught are Classic controller users.
Maybe i should make the switch already.

I'm planning to buy a pair of Classic controllers, so that I can adapt a friend to Brawl (he doesn't buy much consoles, so he rarely plays Smash games...) without being limited by the length of the Gamecube controller's wires.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

Playable characters are not the only thing that matters. Having a stage for a playable character is not mandatory. It has always been like this since the first game.

Ness and Captain Falcon have no stages in SSB. Marth and Roy have no stages in Melee. R.O.B. have no stages in Brawl.

Animal Crossing gets plenty of representation despite having no playable characters:

- Smashville as a stage
- Mr. Resetti as an Assist Trophy
- Pitfall as an item
- tons of trophies, stickers, and music

Electroplankton only got a stage and a few stickers but no playable characters.

The point Sakurai is showing us is that playable characters are not the only thing that matters. I don't think this point was made clear enough in Melee with the trophies. I would think that the addition of stickers and especially Assist Trophies in Brawl would make this point more clear.

animal crossing and electro plankton only got that representation (with no playables) because they are not that big/important to nintendo history. Other series (such as metroid) deserve more playable characters and stages and what not because they are more important to nintendo and to its fans

as far as those characters not having their own stages, in the first smash no secret characters had their own stage. Also in melee marth and roy were not well known outside of japan and were added as a promotional deal

 

[Arcadenik]

Actually, they are the only thing that matters. The rest is fluff.
Ridley should be playable.

Characters are NOT the only thing that matters. Sakurai even went so far as to say adding more characters doesn't justify making a new Smash game.

Sakurai is not going to please the Ridley fanboys. His goal is to make the Metroid fans happy and to introduce the mainstream audience what the Metroid franchise has to offer.

 

[Starphoenix]

Characters are not the only thing that matters, they may be the top priority but are not the only. Stages and music are also part of the equation, just because some people are unhappy their character is not in does not mean the series is not being represented. Metroid did get another character, Zero Suit Samus, simply because nobody agrees with Sakurai's choice does not negate the fact that there are two characters (I myself would have at least chosen Dark Samus).

Now onto something I tried to discuss before but it got ignored, if Metroid: Other M introduces some new characters with an integral part of the story, and some sort of battle ability; think they could be a more reasonable choice (from Sakurai's point of view) to be a new Metroid rep in a potential Smash 4? There are already three characters from the new trailer that show some promise, Adam Malkovich, the "Mysterious Black Dude" as dubbed by Gamefaqs, and the blonde lady at the end of the trailer who has some sort of connection to Adam. I guess for now we will wait and see what Team Ninja and Nintendo can do, but if the character development is anything like Metroid Prime 3, than I will not expect anything.

 

[Avenu]

Characters are not the only thing that matters, they may be the top priority but are not the only. Stages and music are also part of the equation, just because some people are unhappy their character is not in does not mean the series is not being represented. Metroid did get another character, Zero Suit Samus, simply because nobody agrees with Sakurai's choice does not negate the fact that there are two characters (I myself would have at least chosen Dark Samus).

Now onto something I tried to discuss before but it got ignored, if Metroid: Other M introduces some new characters with an integral part of the story, and some sort of battle ability; think they could be a more reasonable choice (from Sakurai's point of view) to be a new Metroid rep in a potential Smash 4? There are already three characters from the new trailer that show some promise, Adam Malkovich, the "Mysterious Black Dude" as dubbed by Gamefaqs, and the blonde lady at the end of the trailer who has some sort of connection to Adam. I guess for now we will wait and see what Team Ninja and Nintendo can do, but if the character development is anything like Metroid Prime 3, than I will not expect anything.

It's somewhat true. But let's face it, nobody really cares for the filler in the game like they do for the characters. The characters are what make the game.

I do hate the stupidest suggestions I've seen so far. More Sonic characters? Cloud? Naruto?

Gotta be ****ing kidding me.

 

[Big-Cat]

Mysterious Black Dude for SSB4!

 

[SmashChu]

Now onto something I tried to discuss before but it got ignored, if Metroid: Other M introduces some new characters with an integral part of the story, and some sort of battle ability; think they could be a more reasonable choice (from Sakurai's point of view) to be a new Metroid rep in a potential Smash 4? There are already three characters from the new trailer that show some promise, Adam Malkovich, the "Mysterious Black Dude" as dubbed by Gamefaqs, and the blonde lady at the end of the trailer who has some sort of connection to Adam. I guess for now we will wait and see what Team Ninja and Nintendo can do, but if the character development is anything like Metroid Prime 3, than I will not expect anything.

I would still expect Ridley to get in. People will still clamor for him before Other M characters.

 

[Zario777]

one-shots never return, even as a cameo,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3ZH_HJgSKQ

Animal Crossing gets plenty of representation despite having no playable characters:
- Smashville as a stage
- Mr. Resetti as an Assist Trophy
- Pitfall as an item
- tons of trophies, stickers, and music
Electroplankton only got a stage and a few stickers but no playable characters.

Electroplankton's stage sucks eggs. As for Animal Crossing, I'll get started on the Animal Crosser's moveset

 

[Starphoenix]

I would still expect Ridley to get in. People will still clamor for him before Other M characters.

I am not too sure Ridley would get in over someone from Other M. Due to the fact that Sakurai has already expressed that it might be to difficult for him. Popularity alone has not changed Sakurai's mind as he was not in Brawl, or Melee either (though he was in Melee's opening movie). I think we could see him as an AT in a Smash 4, nothing more sadly.

Whereas they could go with a character that might be less difficult to work with (though I can't really see how Ridley could be any more complicated than say Olimar, Ivysaur, Ice Climbers). Someone from Other M could be included, because unlike Prime 3-explaining the lack of any MP3 content-Other M would preceed development of a potential Smash 4. The game will most likely sell well, so any main plot characters would not be extremely obscure to the general audience.

It really depends on how the characters end up, if Adam were to bust out an armor suit and had decent developed history and character, he could be a possibility. Right now it is difficult to speculate since all we have is one trailer introducing (or sort of re-introducing) us to three new characters. Judging by the way Ridley was developed in Brawl (yes the size does matter) it shows why he most likely will be unplayable.

One other quick note, Dark Samus has very little chance as well seeing as how the Prime series is now over and soon to be overshadowed by Other M in the future. Probably the biggest reason Dark Samus did not get in Brawl was because Prime 3 did not preceed Brawl, had it, this would probably had been an entirely different discussion.

 

[GTA_Hater_331]

It's utterly absurd that Ridley would be too hard to make a character out of. Metroid Prime alone hints at four Special Moves that could easily be used in Smash 4.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It's utterly absurd that Ridley would be too hard to make a character out of. Metroid Prime alone hints at four Special Moves that could easily be used in Smash 4.

Personally, I think Sakurai probably didn't get the time and opportunity to come up with a good moveset for him yet.

Either that, or he's not sure if it's a good idea or not.

But hey, at the very least, Ridley got noticed by him in the poll (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=71872), so that's something. (Note: use http://web.archive.org for SMASH DOJO (http://www.smashbros.com/jp/toukou/bn/no1_1.html))

In the meantime, we'll see if Adam has the chops to get popularity among the Metroid fanbase.

 

[Arcadenik]

Personally, I think Sakurai probably didn't get the time and opportunity to come up with a good moveset for him yet.

Either that, or he's not sure if it's a good idea or not.

But hey, at the very least, Ridley got noticed by him in the poll (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=71872), so that's something. (Note: use http://web.archive.org for SMASH DOJO (http://www.smashbros.com/jp/toukou/bn/no1_1.html))

In the meantime, we'll see if Adam has the chops to get popularity among the Metroid fanbase.

Sakurai had plenty of time. Sakurai was approached to make a new SSB game in 2005. Sakurai came up with the roster in 2005. This original roster probably had only 29 character slots (3x10 grid).

Row #1
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Donkey Kong
6. Diddy Kong & Dixie Kong
7. Yoshi
8. Wario
9. Olimar
10. Captain Falcon

Row #2
11. Link
12. Zelda / Sheik
13. Ganondorf
14. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
15. Pit
16. Ice Climbers
17. R.O.B.
18. Kirby
19. Meta Knight
20. King Dedede

Row #3
21. Fox
22. Falco
23. Pikachu
24. Pokemon Trainer
25. Lucario
26. Ike
27. Ness
28. Lucas
29. Snake
30. Random

Throughout the 2 years in development, the roster went through some changes. Sakurai likely decided to add more characters to increase the roster size, but doesn't have the time to come up with new movesets, so he added some removed characters back and planned to add more clones (its quicker). This would explain the lost seven characters.

Column #1
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Dr. Mario

Column #2
6. Donkey Kong
7. Diddy Kong
8. Dixie Kong
9. Yoshi
10. Wario

Column #3
11. Link
12. Zelda / Sheik
13. Ganondorf
14. Toon Link
15. Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik

Column #4
16. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
17. Pit
18. Ice Climbers
19. R.O.B.
20. Mr. Game & Watch

Column #5
21. Kirby
22. Meta Knight
23. King Dedede
24. Olimar
25. Captain Falcon

Column #6
26. Pikachu
27. Pokemon Trainer
28. Lucario
29. Jigglypuff or Mewtwo or Plusle & Minun
30. Jigglypuff or Mewtwo or Plusle & Minun

Column #7
31. Marth
32. Ike
33. Roy
34. Ness
35. Lucas

Column #8
36. Fox
37. Falco
38. Wolf
39. Snake
40. Random

The roster likely was a 5x8 grid. But sometime during the development, Sakurai was approached by Nintendo and Sega who told him to add Sonic. So, Sakurai had to stop working on the unfinished clones and focus on coming up with a new moveset for Sonic. This takes up a lot of time so he just kept the completed clones and added Sonic.

Column #1
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser

Column #2
5. Donkey Kong
6. Diddy Kong
7. Yoshi
8. Wario

Column #3
9. Link
10. Zelda / Sheik
11. Ganondorf
12. Toon Link

Column #4
13. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
14. Pit
15. Ice Climbers
16. R.O.B.

Column #5
17. Kirby
18. Meta Knight
19. King Dedede
20. Olimar

Column #6
21. Fox
22. Falco
23. Wolf
24. Captain Falcon

Column #7
25. Pikachu
26. Pokemon Trainer
27. Lucario
28. Jigglypuff

Column #8
29. Marth
30. Ike
31. Ness
32. Lucas

Column #9
33. Mr. Game & Watch
34. Snake
35. Sonic
36. Random

If Sakurai took the time to add Ridley as a late addition, he probably wouldn't have a lot of time to add Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf. Sonic was getting in anyway. Nintendo and Sega would have had made sure of it. And we would get 31 characters just to make Ridley fanboys happy.

I don't see what's the urgent need to have more Metroid characters. Adam would probably end up as a clone of Samus if he wears a Power Suit and have similar abilities and weapons in Other M. But that is fine because the fans even wanted Dark Samus even if it means she would be a clone of Samus anyway.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Do you honestly think Marth and Mr. G&W weren't originally considered to be in the game? Really?

And Adam would be a pretty funky Samus clone for a dude who never had access to Chozo technology.

 

[n88]

The reason Ridley didn't get in is because he was originally an AT. There is some data on the Brawl disc for Ridley as an AT. Being an AT means he was ruled out as a playble character early in development. I suspect the Ridley AT got scrapped later in development, when they made him a boss in SSE.

On new Metroid Reps:

It seems unlikely to me that we'll get a new Metroid Rep. If we do however, there are only a few choices:

Ridley
Dark Samus
Mysterious Black Guy/Adam Malkovich/Somebody New

 

[Volkner582]

Personally, I think Sakurai probably didn't get the time and opportunity to come up with a good moveset for him yet.

Either that, or he's not sure if it's a good idea or not.

But hey, at the very least, Ridley got noticed by him in the poll (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=71872), so that's something. (Note: use http://web.archive.org for SMASH DOJO (http://www.smashbros.com/jp/toukou/bn/no1_1.html))

In the meantime, we'll see if Adam has the chops to get popularity among the Metroid fanbase.

I think Sakurai is scared that resizing Ridley might make him less epic.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think Sakurai is scared that resizing Ridley might make him less epic.

Or maybe he's afraid of what he might do to the other characters.

I mean, seriously. He grinded Samus on a wall.

 

[Pieman0920]

The resizing Ridley and thereby making him less "epic" excuse is so full of bull its not even funny. Sakurai's only statements on Ridley that I am aware of said that he would be difficult to add in, but not impossible. Given that, I think he has a really good chance for the next game, since Sakurai now knows how popular he is (If you go by the theory that most of the results for the Brawl poll were not for the characters, but rather for extra things/the next game) and probably has a idea on how to resize him.

 

[UberMario]

If they modify any of the characters that have already been in Melee/Brawl, this is what I would want changed in SSB4:

Mario: FLUDD (after a full charge) can use any of it's modes.
Luigi: Can use the Poltergust 3000
Yoshi: Egg Roll no longer leaves you in a freefall. and launches you forwards when used in the air.
Bowser: Side B is now a mace. (Like in SMRPG)
Peach: Perry instead of Toad
Wario: Corkscrew can be aimed, and the bike can be damaged WHILE Wario is on it.
Donkey Kong: Headbutt becomes his new FSmash, with Barrell Throwing replacing SideB.
Diddy Kong: Throws rocks instead of bananas (just so he doesn't throw items already in the game as a move)
Dr. Mario: Uses his stethoscope as a chain, and his pills have varying effects (sleep, poison, etc.)
Roy: Counter becomes replaced with Spire, which is a wall of flame that jettisons out of his upraised sword. His FS would be Eruption, which is an explosion of flame around him that does high knockback.
Marth: Speaks English in the NA version. Counter becomes quicker after repeated use.
Ike: Has lightning effects instead of fire (to seperate him from Roy). Down B becones Discharge, which is like eruption but with sparks. Neutral B becomes Ion, which is a electric wave that has reflective properties around Ike. Great Aether would be the same, but he finishes off with a lightning bolt instead of a ground slam.
Pokemon Trainer: Pokemon Change takes less time. One of each starter-type can be chosen.
Pikachu: His moves are more anime-styled. His FS becomes the Volt Tackle from the Anime.
Pichu: B Move becomes Charm, which results in the opponent becoming "shieldstunned". Side B becomes Double-Edge which works like quick draw, but quicker and more powerful. Down B becomes Shock Wave, which results in nearby foes becoming entrapped in electricity. (Like Zapdos from Melee, but Pichu ends up with half of the damage of his opponents.) His FS is Volt Tackle from Brawl.
Mewtwo: His side B becomes Will-o-Wisp, a blue flame that homes in on nearby foes. His FS would be Pyschic, which causes nearby foes to shoot upwards.
Jigglypuff: Sing lasts twice as long. Side B becomes Protect (which negates knockback) when used on the ground, and Body Slam if used in the air.
Lucario: Side B becomes Bone Rush. With Close Combat becoming his New FS.
Kirby: Uses the powers available from the series. With "Neutral" having Inhale, Sliding Kick, Hi-Jump, and Plummet as his B, Side B, Up B and Down B respectively.
DeDeDe: Side B becomes Rex Wheelie, which would work like Wario's Bike. Jet Hammer becomes a spinning move instead of an uppercut. His FS would have Wheelies instead of Waddle Dees.
Meta-Knight: Uses standard moves that he actually had in the series. Final Cutter is his Neutral B move if used on the ground, otherwise it's Mach Tornado. His FS would be a giant tornado (like in KSSU)
Mr. Game & Watch: Oil Panic now requires 5 projectiles, but breaks shields and has no startup lag when filled.
Ice Climbers: If one of the climbers is KO'd, you gain control of whatever Climber is left, regardless of who it is.
Link: Has more air-time with his UpB
Young Link: Uses his masks.
Toon Link: Uses Skull Hammer for his Down B, and rides a Deku Leaf with his SideB.
Ganondorf: UpB is now Teleport, NeutralB is Shadow Ball, and Down B is a punch downwards that spikes and has mid-long-range.
Zelda/Shiek: Down B takes longer.
Ness: PSI Teleport is his new UpB. PK Rockin' is his FS.
Lucas: PK Sheildoff is his SideB, and PK Ground (which works like DK's headbutt) is his new DownB.
Captain Falcon: Falcon Punch is twice as powerful. His FS no longer has cinematics.
Samus: Falls slower, but can't "Bomb Jump".
ZSS: Down B, and Neutral B are switched.
Sonic: Caliber, his sword from Sonic & the Black Knight, becomes his DownB.
Snake: C4 can not be used as a recovery.
Pit: UpB can be used again after being hit out of it.
ROB: Can use more than one gyro at a time.
Fox: Lasers do more damage.
Falco: Uses an Arwing for his FS. Laser can be aimed downwards.
Wolf: Down B becomes replaced with a counter-type move involving his claws. His FS summons his Star Wolf fleet to bombard the stage.

Any comments on the changes?

 

[Clownbot]

Or maybe he's afraid of what he might do to the other characters.

I mean, seriously. He grinded Samus on a wall.

PLEASE! There are children here!

Ridley deserves to be in SSB4. He's the next most important character behind Samus.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The resizing Ridley and thereby making him less "epic" excuse is so full of bull its not even funny. Sakurai's only statements on Ridley that I am aware of said that he would be difficult to add in, but not impossible. Given that, I think he has a really good chance for the next game, since Sakurai now knows how popular he is (If you go by the theory that most of the results for the Brawl poll were not for the characters, but rather for extra things/the next game) and probably has a idea on how to resize him.

I agree with what you're saying. Diddy Kong, Wario and King Dedede were all popular choices on Melee's poll. They didn't show up in that, but then, poof! They appeared in Brawl (much to my excitement, in the case of King Dedede )!

Ridley is very popular with the fans, which is undeniable. He seems to be likely to get promoted to playable character status next time. Once that happens, then in that case, to quote Kreese Kreely from MadWorld, "Put the kids to bed, 'cause you don't want them to see this!".

PLEASE! There are children here!

Somehow, I don't think that'll stop them from playing Smash (it has the likes of Mario and Kirby in it, after all). That said, I apologize if I offended anyone.

 

[Wizzerd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3ZH_HJgSKQ

I meant in other Zeldas. Also, way to revive a dead debate.

 

[Arcadenik]

Do you honestly think Marth and Mr. G&W weren't originally considered to be in the game? Really?

Toise, I believe Marth and Mr. Game & Watch weren't going to be in Brawl in the first place. When viewing the first page of Group Records, you would notice a pattern.

Original
1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Link
4. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
5. Yoshi
6. Kirby
7. Fox
8. Pikachu
9. Luigi
10. Captain Falcon
11. Ness

Melee
12. Bowser
13. Peach
14. Zelda / Sheik
15. Ice Climbers
16. Falco
17. Ganondorf

Brawl
18. Wario
19. Meta Knight
20. Pit
21. Olimar
22. Lucas
23. Diddy Kong
24. King Dedede
25. Ike
26. R.O.B.
27. Snake
28. Pokemon Trainer
29. Lucario

Late additions
30. Marth
31. Mr. Game & Watch
32. Jigglypuff
33. Toon Link
34. Wolf
35. Sonic

When viewing the third page of Group Records, you'd notice the same groups but with some changes in the order.

Original
1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Link
4. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
5. Yoshi
6. Kirby
7. Fox
8. Pikachu
9. Luigi
10. Captain Falcon
11. Ness

Melee
12. Bowser
13. Peach
14. Zelda / Sheik
15. Ice Climbers
16. Marth (he's likely the first character added later because he has a bigger role in Adventure Mode than Mr. Game & Watch)
17. Mr. Game & Watch (he's likely the second character added later because he doesn't even have a big role in the Adventure Mode)
18. Falco
19. Ganondorf

Brawl
20. Wario
21. Meta Knight
22. Pit
23. Olimar
24. Lucas
25. Diddy Kong
26. Pokemon Trainer
27. King Dedede
28. Lucario
29. Ike
30. R.O.B.

Late additions
31. Jigglypuff (she's still not grouped with the original characters)
32. Toon Link
33. Wolf

Third party
34. Snake (he was most likely completed before the late additions, he was just grouped here with Sonic because they are both third party)
35. Sonic

So, I believe that Marth and Mr. Game & Watch were removed but they were the first characters added back. It would explain why they are in the Adventure Mode and that their slots are above the newcomers on the roster, unlike Jigglypuff.

Why would Marth be removed in the first place? Think about it... Ice Climbers and Pit had games on the GBA as part of the Classic NES Series (Famicom Mini Series in Japan) in 2004 and on the Virtual Console (2007). R.O.B. was in Mario Kart DS (2005). Ness was in Mother 1+2 in Japan (2003). Ike was the newest Fire Emblem protagonist in 2005. There was no new Marth games in the last five years plus he was Japan-only (at least Lucas had a game in 2006). Sakurai likely learned from Nintendo that Marth's first game would be remade for the DS in 2008 that he decided to add Marth to promote that game.

As for Mr. Game & Watch, many Smash fans didn't like him (just like they don't like R.O.B. now). Sakurai probably removed him for that reason and replaced him with R.O.B. as the new WTF character, but then changed his mind and added Mr. Game & Watch back to increase the roster number. It also helps that Mr. Game & Watch is very original and had Game & Watch Collection for the DS in 2006.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

I would agree with that theory, but the Group Records are the ONLY place where that's the case. Considering he loves the first Fire Emblem game and Marth is the face of the series, I doubt he'd just think "nah, forget him." And why would he consider dropping Game & Watch because of a few fans? He didn't ask anyone if they wanted him in the first place. You're looking too hard into things.

 

[Pieman0920]

Oh Trophy Tussle, how I loved thee~

I really do hope that they bring that back in Smash 4....or like my idea that I posted earlier, actually have a Tophy Tussle stage. (Basically, you fight in the trophy room, with all the trophies in the background. Like Delfino Island, the stage shuffles between locations, and there are about 8-10 trophies that it will always land on. The trophies in the background of the stage are only from those that the player has collected, and the stage itself is unlocked when around 3-5 of the trophies that compose the stage are unlocked. Unlocking the other 5-7 trophies makes them show up on the stage as well, and the platform that shifts you can then move to them as well.

The major kink in this though may be what happens if you delete all the trophies....perhaps the stage would go away as well?

EDIT: About Marth and G&W...Maybe at one point Sakurai may have been thinking of not adding them, but I doubt it was for very long. And as Toise said, its only in once place apparently. In that case, it could have just been a error on someone else's part.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm just trying to look into it from different angles, not just from the fanboys' point of view.

Ridley is not getting in unless a Ridley fanboy puts a gun to Sakurai's head, uses mind control on Sakurai, or even kidnaps Sakurai and impersonates as him with a rubber mask. Its possible Sakurai might decide to add Ridley on his own accord, too, but its not very likely if he already said its too difficult to turn Ridley into a viable Smash fighter. Its likely it would take up a lot of development time just by trying to turn such a difficult character like Ridley into a viable Smash fighter. Why would he waste a lot of development time trying to force a square peg into a circle hole when he could be using that development time to add other characters who wouldn't be too difficult to turn into viable Smash fighters?

 

[n88]

I'm just trying to look into it from different angles, not just from the fanboys' point of view.

Ridley is not getting in unless a Ridley fanboy puts a gun to Sakurai's head, uses mind control on Sakurai, or even kidnaps Sakurai and impersonates as him with a rubber mask. Its possible Sakurai might decide to add Ridley on his own accord, too, but its not very likely if he already said its too difficult to turn Ridley into a viable Smash fighter. Its likely it would take up a lot of development time just by trying to turn such a difficult character like Ridley into a viable Smash fighter. Why would he waste a lot of development time trying to force a square peg into a circle hole when he could be using that development time to add other characters who wouldn't be too difficult to turn into viable Smash fighters?

Does different angles mean biased against Ridley?
Ridley is not all that difficult. If adding Ridley takes a really long time, that's kind of pathetic.
Plus, if it does, Miyamoto will just delay the release. He does that a lot.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I'm just trying to look into it from different angles, not just from the fanboys' point of view.

Ridley is not getting in unless a Ridley fanboy puts a gun to Sakurai's head, uses mind control on Sakurai, or even kidnaps Sakurai and impersonates as him with a rubber mask. Its possible Sakurai might decide to add Ridley on his own accord, too, but its not very likely if he already said its too difficult to turn Ridley into a viable Smash fighter. Its likely it would take up a lot of development time just by trying to turn such a difficult character like Ridley into a viable Smash fighter. Why would he waste a lot of development time trying to force a square peg into a circle hole when he could be using that development time to add other characters who wouldn't be too difficult to turn into viable Smash fighters?

Which you are not doing. You still have a bias there. For one, you cannot just spout that silly theory with no hint of proof. It is a conspiracy theory in the making. As for Ridley being playable, you cannot say that he will never be playable either. that is like me saying Tingle has no chance in hell. It is completely wrong.

And what is with this development time crap. Oh no, the character is to difficult to make playable or will take up to much time to make playalbe. That is a load of bull.

You are clearly biased in your assessment. A fact that you are neglecting is the fans. Sakurai knows fans want Ridley playable. He has shown up on the Brawl polls and was, what the thrid most requested (suggested). He knows fans want him. It will more then likely get worse when the next game is announced.

You are just grabbing straws by going "Only fans of Ridley" and "Too much development time." None of those are concrete enough to be viable to exclude Ridley.

Like with Tingle, if the fans want him playable, he will get the push. I mean, everything you have been spouting right now is can be used to smash almost any characters chances, not just Ridley.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

You gotta have no faith in Sakurai's design team to think they can't make Ridley work.

You also have to be in complete denial to think people don't care about not being able to play as him.

 

[Starphoenix]

You gotta have no faith in Sakurai's design team to think they can't make Ridley work.

You also have to be in complete denial to think people don't care about not being able to play as him.

Which I do not, and for all the people who are saying how easy it is too add Ridley. Do it than.

Look I like Ridley as well but the fact is Sakurai obviously perceives him as too awkward to work. But I guess we will see in time what happens, but I still think they would be more likely to choose someone from Other M.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Which I do not, and for all the people who are saying how easy it is too add Ridley. Do it than.

Look I like Ridley as well but the fact is Sakurai obviously perceives him as too awkward to work. But I guess we will see in time what happens, but I still think they would be more likely to choose someone from Other M.

Check my Sig. Ridley moveset right there.
I did it.

And choosing someone from Other M. Sounds like an excuse to me. Ridley is in that game also. He is still very popular and he will still have more purpose and fans then anyone else who shows up in that game.

 

[n88]

Which I do not, and for all the people who are saying how easy it is too add Ridley. Do it than.

Look I like Ridley as well but the fact is Sakurai obviously perceives him as too awkward to work. But I guess we will see in time what happens, but I still think they would be more likely to choose someone from Other M.

I can't add him because I'm not Sakurai. Sorry.


Moving on from Ridley, what do people think about New Bosses? (Bosses deserve Caps)

I would like to see Giga Bowser appear as a boss.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Bosses? Let's see...

Since Sonic showed up, I've been dreaming of fighting against the Egg Viper (as well as battles against other Robotnik bosses)

Also, Kracko.

Giga Bowser would be interesting, though.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I can't add him because I'm not Sakurai. Sorry.


Moving on from Ridley, what do people think about New Bosses? (Bosses deserve Caps)

I would like to see Giga Bowser appear as a boss.

Bosses:
Dark Energy Bowser
Dark Energy Bowser Jr.
Possessed King K Rool
Kamek

Vaati
Demon Beast Ganon

Mother Brain
Kraid

Andross

DeathBorn

Possessed Palutina

Dark Matter
02

Dimentio

Arceus
Darkrai
Rayquaza

Advanced Wars Units

Golden Dragon
Roy
The Black Knight

Eggman
Dr. Wily
Metal Gear Rex
Metal Gear Ray
Metal Gear ROB

Galleom
Duon
Tabuu

Final Boss: Giygas

pulling from my story idea: http://drag0nscythe.deviantart.com/art/Super-Smash-Bros-Fisticuffs-95625895

 

[Pieman0920]

Why woud Ridley be that hard to add in when we aready have Charizard? The only major physical difference between the two is that Ridley has longer legs. =/

Anyways on bosses, as I said before, if Brawl is any indication, the bosses that get in have to be "important" to a extent...at least more so than any random throw away boss from game X. Petey reoccurs often and the same is true for Ridley. Porkey is a final boss if I'm not mistaken, and Rayquaza is the poster Pokemon for Emerald.

That being said, Kracko has a good chance, since he shows up often in Kirby games. Giritania may be good too, though it may be too late for him by SSB4. King Boo, Vatti (eye form), and Gohma also seem possible.